Oldest known production VW Beetle

[plymouthcranbrook]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/oldest-known-production-vw-beetle-123513766.html

 

Maybe so...

[michel88]

Beautiful restoration of a historic car that was built for many years without many changes.  I had a '65 VW that I drove and enjoyed for many years.  I would still like to have one as a daily driver now.  With the pace of today's traffic it might not be practical.

[Paul Dobbin]

Watch the film again.  I think it's  possibly a FRAUD.   Remember the split rear window was replaced by the oval in the mid 50's then, a rectangular rear window in 1958.   Then in 1965 they made all the windows larger by making them taller.  The distance from the bottom of the window opening to the the body bulge and the side trim.  In the film the body appears to have the 1965 and later size side windows and windshield.  Just something from a 1966 VW owner (With larger windows) and a prior owner of 2 1957 oval window VW's. a 1958, a 1961, a 1963, a 1964 (All smaller side windows) plus 2 1967's and several later ones,  (All with the larger side windows).   All this makes me think its a replica using a later body with a'n available split window insert.

I was wondering why they filmed it in such low light.  Anybody else notice that?

 

Edited November 26, 2018 by Paul Dobbin (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

9 hours ago, michel88 said:

Beautiful restoration of a historic car that was built for many years without many changes.  I had a '65 VW that I drove and enjoyed for many years.  I would still like to have one as a daily driver now.  With the pace of today's traffic it might not be practical.

 I have a 64  Type 113 Deluxe,  and a 65 111, 1200 "A" Sedan  that I drive every few weeks. Todays traffic is no different than when those cars were new in the Muscle car era.

 One thing I wouldn't do with that 41 Beetle is drive it in the rain. I've owned my 65 since 1968 and restored it in 1973 and it hasn't seen rain since. I bought the 64 in 1974 and restored it in 1978 and it hasn't been in the rain since then either.

[Pfeil]

10 minutes ago, Paul Dobbin said:

Watch the film again.  I think it's  possibly a FRAUD.   Remember the split rear window was replaced by the oval in the mid 50's then, a rectangular rear window in 1958.   Then in 1965 they made all the windows larger by making them taller.  The distance from the bottom of the window opening to the the body bulge and the side trim.  In the film the body appears to have the 1965 and later size side windows and windshield.  Just something from a 1966 VW owner (With larger windows) and a prior owner of 2 1957 oval window VW's. a 1958, a 1961, a 1963, a 1964 (All smaller side windows) plus 2 1967's and several later ones,  (All with the larger side windows).   All this makes me think its a replica using a later body with a'n available split window insert.

I was wondering why they filmed it in such low light.  Anybody else notice that?

 

You are incorrect.

Edited November 26, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

My first car I owned was a 65 vw bug. My dad and I rebuilt it together at home in his garage. It wasn't running and needed pretty much everything. Dad was a master mechanic ( he past away in 2005) so rebuilding everything was kinda easy except for metric bolts and nuts. Dad had only standard tools as he was a shop Forman for a trucking company. Once everything was gone through, it's was time to do bodywork and paint. I was so proud of all he work dad did and taught me during the rebuild. The madden voeage was a trip around the block, about 5 miles in the countryside. I don't know who enjoyed it more. He would take it to work to show it off. I drove it back and forth to college. It would get in the low 20's mpg and would run in 70-80 mph on the interstate. It had a 1500 cc engine. I miss it at times when I need to go to town, about 30 miles round trip. It would be cheaper the driving my diesel pickup. Here diesel is about a dollar more a gallon. I can say it was the first rebuild I had ever done. 

[Pfeil]

On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 5:16 PM, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

My first car I owned was a 65 vw bug. My dad and I rebuilt it together at home in his garage. It wasn't running and needed pretty much everything. Dad was a master mechanic ( he past away in 2005) so rebuilding everything was kinda easy except for metric bolts and nuts. Dad had only standard tools as he was a shop Forman for a trucking company. Once everything was gone through, it's was time to do bodywork and paint. I was so proud of all he work dad did and taught me during the rebuild. The madden voeage was a trip around the block, about 5 miles in the countryside. I don't know who enjoyed it more. He would take it to work to show it off. I drove it back and forth to college. It would get in the low 20's mpg and would run in 70-80 mph on the interstate. It had a 1500 cc engine. I miss it at times when I need to go to town, about 30 miles round trip. It would be cheaper the driving my diesel pickup. Here diesel is about a dollar more a gallon. I can say it was the first rebuild I had ever done. 

You didn't say what model, also all 65 beetles use the 1200, but there are two different 1200 engines in 1965. In the 111 "A" Sedan and the 111 1200 Custom ( except for the Canadian Custom) they use the 36HP 1200, the old Reimspiess engine architecture that goes back to 1937 , and in the 113 deluxe you have the  New engine from 1961-1978  1200 40HP for 1965.

 

Your dad probably installed a 67 or newer 1500.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[mike6024]

This is a more informative video on the same vehicle and the owner

 

[Pfeil]

 VW Beetle Vin / Chassis numbers for the 1940-1947

Year	Chassis	Engine	Rear Axle	Front Axle	Frame	Body	Notes
1940 - 1947
1940	1-01000	1-01000
1941	1-05656	1-06251
1942	1-014383	1-017113
1943	1-032302	1-045707
1944	1-051999	1-077682
1945	1-053814	1-079093
1946	1-063796	1-090732
1947	1-072743	1-0100788	80 640	79 332

 

Below is a 1938 VW I have personally seen this car;

 

[Mike "Hubbie" Stearns]

Pfeil, you are correct. The original engine was beyond repair. The mains had spun in the block and also had several cracks. We able to talk to a local person who confirmed the condition of the block. He was rebuilding a 1200 and needed a crank and rods so we made a deal that helped both of us. I think my car was a 112 or 113. Sorry I really don't remember. Which one it was. 

[Restorer32]

We restored a '49 VW and showed it at Hershey 2015. After watching the video I believe the car is pre 1950 at least. It has mechanical front brakes which were last used in '49. I might question the use of chrome on the front bumper.

[Pfeil]

15 hours ago, Mike "Hubbie" Stearns said:

Pfeil, you are correct. The original engine was beyond repair. The mains had spun in the block and also had several cracks. We able to talk to a local person who confirmed the condition of the block. He was rebuilding a 1200 and needed a crank and rods so we made a deal that helped both of us. I think my car was a 112 or 113. Sorry I really don't remember. Which one it was. 

Sounds to me like it was a 113. A 113 is a Deluxe and export car.

A 112 is a Type 111 1200"A" ( formerly called a standard ) Right Hand Drive.

 

Just a FYI, VW's do not have a block they have a engine case. I worked as a line mechanic and then a Unit Repair mechanic. I have seen many spun bearings on connecting rods and they spin in the usual way most any neglected or mistreated engine does but Main bearings are a different story. I have seen main bearings seize to the crankshaft when run out of oil, or overheated due to oil cooler failure but never a spun MAIN bearing. The reason is the engine case has holes drilled in every main bearing saddle and a dowel pin is inserted into the case, the bearing also has a hole that locks the bearing to the engine case saddle so it can't go anywhere see the picture below and forget the arrows but notice the holes for dowels in the center of the saddles the holes below that are the holes going to the oil gallery There are four main bearing for this small engine VW and Porsche engines as usual are overbuilt for longevity  ;

Edited November 27, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

13 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

We restored a '49 VW and showed it at Hershey 2015. After watching the video I believe the car is pre 1950 at least. It has mechanical front brakes which were last used in '49. I might question the use of chrome on the front bumper.

The last Beetle to use cable brakes April 1962 Type 111, Left hand drive, Type 112, Rt. hand drive, and Type 115, left hand drive sunroof, and the Type 116 rt. hand drive sunroof. They are all standard models and all use the 36HP 1200 engine.

Edited November 27, 2018 by Pfeil (see edit history)

[michel88]

The VW video was really interesting and I enjoyed seeing the top view of the bare chassis with all the mechanical components in place.  IMHO that is elegant practical design. Thanks for posting Mike.

[Restorer32]

59 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

The last Beetle to use cable brakes are the 1963 Type 111, Left hand drive, Type 112, Rt. hand drive, and Type 115, left hand drive sunroof, and the Type 116 rt. hand drive sunroof. They are all standard models and all use the 36HP 1200 engine.

Of course you are correct. My brain must still be in a Thanksgiving fog.

[Pfeil]

One of the most intriguing Beetles are the pre production models used for testing. These cars were built and tested by Porsche and his team to see if the beetle project would go further into production. The cars come just after the V-1 and V2 prototypes, the bodies and backbone + pan were made by Mercedes by order of the German government at Porsche & Hitler's request. 1937, Thirty were made, hence the name VW30, and were driven all over Germany, especially on the autobahn flat out, and in the alps by SS soldiers. As I said 30 were built, tested and all were supposed to be destroyed after the test/evaluation were concluded. Some managed to survive.

I call them the Flash Gordon cars.

 

[Pfeil]

[Pfeil]

 I have several, more than several books on VW and Porsche. The very early Porsches had two piece case VW engines/transaxles and torsion bars ( Beams ) wheels and brakes straight from VW. At that time and all the way to the present VW and Porsche have always worked together, on small projects and whole cars. Heinz Nordhoff a GM executive from Opel was persuaded by  HMS Major Ivan Hurst to take over and run VW in 1948. Just before Porsche's death Norhoff invited Dr. Porsche to visit the Wolfsburg Plant operations. Weak from years of imprisonment by the French, Dr. Porsche went to the factory at Nordhoff's invitation.

One of the remarks Porsche made to Nordhoff really stuck out in my mind was this saying of Porsche to Nordhoff .  

      " ONLY SINCE YOU PROVED IT DID I KNOW I WAS RIGHT" 

[KdFwagen]

I know this 41 type 60 and know the restorer (Jacek Krajewski of Warsaw Poland) personally.

As an owner of a 1944 KdF type 82e beetle here in the US I was invited to a meeting in Germany at a private museum there. The Museum owner Richard Hausmann organized the meeting for the sole purpose of bringing together all owners of "original" documented 1938 through 1944 KdF-Wagen Beetles only. The car is real and amazing. The most documented KdF Beetle restoration to date. These cars are extremely challenging to restore. This 41 was even more so as 1941 build info is extremely scarce. It's all outlined in their book which I was able to look over pre-published at that Germany meeting in May. The owners are wonderful and have been dedicated to restore it as correctly as humanly possible.

[8E45E]

I believe there was a competition between established companies for "the peoples' car", and the Steyr Type 55 I posted here was one of them:  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?107731-Portland-Art-Museum

 

As I recall, the rear-engine Mercedes Benz 130 was also a contender.

 

Craig

Edited November 27, 2018 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[Pfeil]

1 hour ago, 8E45E said:

I believe there was a competition between established companies for "the peoples' car", and the Steyr Type 55 I posted here was one of them:  http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?107731-Portland-Art-Museum

 

As I recall, the rear-engine Mercedes Benz 130 was also a contender.

 

Craig

Never contenders in Hitler's Germany, as Hitler wanted his own car with his own factory. From 1934 onwards Porsche would be his man to do the job.

When I say Hitler's own car and factory I mean " Deutschland ist Adolf Hitler und Adolf Hitler ist Deutschland" so he said many times.

[8E45E]

Reportedly, Hitler never actually owed a car while in office; Mercedes Benz, or otherwise.  Even though they were made to his specifications, they all belonged to the Government Motor Pool. 

 

Craig

[Pfeil]

3 minutes ago, 8E45E said:

Reportedly, Hitler never actually owed a car while in office; Mercedes Benz, or otherwise.  Even though they were made to his specifications, they all belonged to the Government Motor Pool. 

 

Craig

 " Adolf Hitler ist Deutschland und Deutschland ist Adolf Hitler".  Hitler basically owned the government and with it Volkswagen Werk and it's cars. But you are right in the technical sense. Old Adolf didn't own a car, and never drove one either even though he was a car enthusiast. His enthusiasm for cars and in particular race cars led him to Dr. Porsche who in the early 30's had designed the Auto Union Grand Prix race winning cars. The beetle would take the torsion bar suspensions, central backbone to the chassis, and the transaxle from the Auto Union Race cars. Dr. Porsche just behind the driver wearing a hat.

  

[Pfeil]

Burning rubber coming out of a turn with a posi- traction ( Porsche design) transaxle.

On January 28th, 1938, German race driver and national hero Bernd Rosemeyer was killed, thrown from his Auto Union streamliner after it careened off a section of closed-off Autobahn. He was traveling somewhere in the neighborhood of 270 mph, on a public road, in winds high enough to be a danger at half that speed. He was 29. On the anniversary of Rosemeyer's extraordinary death, it's worth taking a quick look at his equally extraordinary life.

 

 

Burning rubber coming out of a turn the Auto Union with Porsche's own design Posi- Transaxle.

 

 

 

[Pfeil]

Here is a picture of Franz Reimspiess  engine in 1937. Note the cast into the rt side of the engine case generator stand instead of the bolt on generator stand of the new deluxe models from 1961. Note that the old style engine was still used in the 111 models until August of 1965.

 

Below is my 1965 matching numbers Type 111 "A" Sedan 1200 Custom. The engine is from the original design and August of 65 will be the last of this type. Special note is this engine uses the fresh air fan shroud and heat exchangers like the newer engines from 1963.

 

Below, the September 1960 New type engine for the 113 deluxe. Notice the different bolt on generator stand, the location difference of the fuel pump, and distributor.

 

 

 Not only did Reimspiess design VW's first engine, he also designed VW's logo. He retired from Porsche in 1966. His last major project before retirement was designing the suspension for the new Porsche 911.