philipj

Overdrive Information 38 Buick...

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40 minutes ago, Jim Nelson said:

35Joe,   What spares are you looking at?    My inventory for mine is:  solenoid on the O/D, ,  constant  (brain fade) use one on the fire wall.  The odds of a switch failing with the ones Lloyd used is very rare.   For trips,  all I would take is one of Lloyds older solenoids.  Cheaperbthan the New” solenoids. “.  That Is JIC  part.     Mechanically,  ?  Nothing else unless you wanted to buy one of Lloyds  O/D units with out the adapters.  JMHO,  I think that may be more than needed.   If I had a major  failure,  it migh be easier to send the O/D itself to Glens where he would fix it.   JMHO.  - - - 

All I need is a outer case/housing.

R10B-1G

or

R10B-1R

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

If that is the crack your talking about, its no problem to fix.   Down here there are several excellent welders.   I have one who is excellent both with aluminum and steel.   I’ve had him do welding on my airplanes when I was into flying.   You got to trust him with your life - so he is very good.  My back up guy is also a very good machinist.  I had him do the mod’s to utilize my ‘54’ third member in my ‘37’ rear.   I will find out if Glen will be able to rummage around Lloyds stock of O/D units to find one.    Where is this spot.  Get me a shot that is a bit back to figure just where this ‘boss’ is located,  function of this boss etc.

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That is the shift rail pin. It is welded up but the seal has a tiny drip. I just want an extra casing should it decide to go. My casing say:

R10B-1R on it.

R10B-1G should be the same case.

The third picture is what I need. Unfortunately the company that has this one wants more than I can pay in good conscience.

 

I did not have an option to change the rear or ring and pinion. My car is one year, one ratio only. To use a different year I would have to remove my entire mechanical brake system. Add a hydraulic set up. Master cylinder etc. 

My car has mods but still very 1935. 6volts and all. Jim you car is outrageous!!!

Thx., Joe

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

image.jpeg

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Hi Ben,   Just for fun, here is my ‘37’. Modified to have a ‘54’ third member.  Nicely tucked away and hard to detect.    I also have a ‘38’  oprera coupe with Lloyds O/D  that is my traveling  car.  

F671321D-92AC-485C-80E7-F7B3142C62C4.jpeg

DDDCAD4B-9284-42DD-AD4D-434E61A66B0C.jpeg

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Hey Jim,

Glen has what I need. We just have to settle on a price. Thanks for referring him to me. 

Joe

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35Joe,   Its great that Glen had the case.   What I would do is to sleeve the questionable case.  Then that becomes your backup case.   Sleeving the original case is a no brainer for a good machine shop.  I hope Glen gets enough business to become the ‘over drive guy’.

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Got the od case today from Glenn. It's perfect. Explain the sleeve? Where does it go?

Thx. Joey 

image.jpeg

Edited by 35Joe
Pic (see edit history)

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you take it to your machanist.  A GOOD ONE. ,  Tell him you needed it sleeved to match the original bore.   Does the original have any slot’s or is it just a plain bore.  HAVE HIM MATCH IT EXACTLY.   Alignment and lengty.     If it is where the solenoid is inserted, have him match the finished bore so it fits just like the original..  The finished thickness of the sleeve needs to be at least .075 to .085.     The thickness should not over about 30% of the remaining material.  For instance,  exsting wall thickness is  0.375.    The wall thickness of the sleeve would be .085 .  to about  0.100  or approvimatly 30 %.   Not a hard and fast rule but the thickness goes up so does the sleeve thickness.   The sleeve needs to be mild steel.  Not brass or any soft material.   There should be several grooves in circumference about. ~ .005 deep.  Use Locktite RED to secure it permently.  Even when the case gets warm. The sleeve won’t move.  If you are uncomfortable with that. I would drill along side the joint between the sleeve and casting and insert a roll pin vertical thru 6he joint.  Just a small one that will keep things from moving.    Maybe over kill but your machinist can give you his opinion.    Its not a big deal, its just getting the bore aligned with the original alignment.   Give me a call if you have further questions.   727-251-6261   This repairs your original case and becomes a very good back-up part.   Obviously, this happens after you remove the original case so it can be the guide for repair.

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My response was for a bigger cracked area.   Your part is small and setting it up would be to plug the existing hole  (about 4x to 6x hole dia.) and redrill the hole again on the existing axis.   I would weld the plug in place and then redrill over the existing hole axis.    To do this I would do it this way.   I would set the part up on a mill with digital  points recorded.   Then move the table off to one side (without changing the digital points) and plug / weld the hole  closed.  Them move the table back to the original digital starting point and redrill  the hole exactly where it should be with the identical size drill.   Many good ways to repair parts not available today.   

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Thanks Jim,

I will take your advice to my local machine shop and have him do it your way unless he has a viable method that is similar to yours. Everyone has their way. If he doesn’t I will take it somewhere else.

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Yup,  many machinist’s are little premadonny’s  with the  “I know the best way so don’t confuse me with ‘new’ ways.”    Check around and get their OPINION’S  on what they would do.   Since these over drive  cases are not made anymore, I would take good care of any of them and repair as necessary..

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Hi Jack,   When I went to Lloyds and had him install the OD in my '38' drive train, he used rear end gear oil.   I don't remember him mention to use any thing else.   When you got  an Overdrive with your car back in the 30's, they were attached to the transmission and lubricated with the same lub.                      Bob Engle,    Lloyd said to remove the  governor plug that he has modified with a copper vent tube.  Then there is two pipe plugs forward of the Gov. plug.    Remove the lower forward plug to drain the OD unit.  When checking it for correct level,  you only remove the governor plug with vent and then remove the closer (higher )  pipe plug and fill the unit through the governor hole until it comes out the closer pipe plug hole.   Lloyd mentioned that some people just filled the upper pipe plug hole and it did not get oil to some of the gears.   So,  that is info from the lips of the GURU of Overdrives himself.  Here is a pix of the right side with the plugs and governor plug.

IMG_0033.jpg

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I have seen a variety of comments about the lubricant to use in a BW  overdrive

 

What the Warner factory manual says is this

     Do not use EP type

     Do not use Hypoid type

     40 Wt motor oil is OK

     50 Wt motor oil can be used for hard driving/higher temperature climates

     Straight mineral oil  SAE 80 is OK

     Straight mineral oil  SAE  90 is OK for hard driving/higher temperature climates

 

About venting and filling with oil:

 

We removed the plug Lloyd put in the governor opening and installed a governor....Lloyd's control set-up worked just

fine but we wanted the factory type control set-up....it's more of a semi-automatic operation. So we needed the governor.

 

This the left us with no vent.     So we bought a "street-T"......    3/8 NPT threads ....removed the upper 3/8"NPT pipe plug

and threaded the male leg of the tee into this opening.    This left two female 3/8' NPT connections on the tee to be used.

The female connection pointing horizontally we plugged  with a 3/8' NPT plug.     This is where we check oil level and add oil if necessary.

The 3/8" female connection pointing upward:     we screwed in a tubing adapter and inserted a piece of copper tubing

about 8" long....this is our new vent.

 

The point is well taken about making sure oil gets back into all of the recesses of the OD.

When we add oil we have the rear wheels off the ground and the car in neutral...we can

rock the wheels a little to make sure the OD gets everywhere back into the OD

 

Jack Worstell                  jlwmaster@aol.com

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Isn't this great,  Lots of info when you ask.   Its interesting that the lubrication for the OD is ?separate? from the tranny lub ?  I have not seen the tranny blowup to see how they kept the two lubricants in cars such as Studebaker or Hudson's or Fords.    That would be a good pix to see how they did it if Warner said they would be separate.  I just went by Lloyds thoughts.

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The reason they say not to use EP oils is that there is a large bronze part in there. Many modern EP oils do not attack copper-bearing metals so that requirement is diminished - the Copper Strip Corrosion Test ASTM D130 should have a 1a result for 40 oC and 1a or 1b at 100 oC. The major action in these is a set of planetary gears with a free wheeling system at the back.

Edited by Spinneyhill (see edit history)

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I like the way you set up the vent and level checking.    I am going to throw in a caveat.   When I was getting my '38' ready for the club tour last fall, I was draining and replacing the oil in the OD.   I let my mechanic go under the car and while he was sticking his finger around and in the governor opening, he found some foreign objects.   He removed what was a partial of the ball bearing cage.  That part keeps the balls separate for operation.   Not a good thing to find.  I ran a small magnet on a stick into the opening and found some more small parts.   Panic ensued.    I could not drive the '38' on tour.  I called Lloyd right away.   I told him I could be at his shop in two days  -   he said come.   So I pulled the OD complete from tranny thru the overdrive.   I pulled into Glen's shop and Lloyd was there and we pulled the OD apart.   Lloyd was curious on the failure mode.   He said that the output bearing on single bearing output designs can fail but he had never seen the final output bearing die.   My OD is  of the dual bearing output design.   So he, as  he guarantees, rebuilt completely my OD.   bearings and gear sets.  He looked over the sprocket on the input shaft and replaced it with a new sprocket and looked at the sprocket on the drive shaft.   He did not like it so he replace it also.   I think, when I installed my OD at the beginning, did not have lubricant of sufficient quantity for the chain coupling.  Thus, wear on the sprockets.   Any way, rebuilt and back on my '38' and ready for the next long trip to Auburn In. to the Auburn - Cord museum in a few weeks.   I have good confidence it will be a uneventful trip.   My last long trip was to the Nashville Tn area, 1600 miles round trip.   This one will be around 2500 miles.   That is why I bought the Buick.   Reputation !    

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Jim

 

      I think...but I'm not sure...that with a factory set-up  there is a common  vent for the OD and the transmission. because of the way

the housings are made....but somehow the lubricants are kept apart.   On the other hand....I seem to recall Lloyd telling us to use the same lubricant

in the OD as we use in the transmission.....so I'm not sure.

I'm not too concerned about because (a) we have a good vent for the OD   and   (b)  we use the lubricants cited

in the Warner OD manual

 

About the spocklets./chain........there's no relative rotary motion between these components.....just whatever

short motions there might be as a consequence of keeping these components  tight with each other.

Isn't there a seal in the front of the OD which would keep OD lubricant from getting to the spocklets/chain ?

When we removed the OD a few months back ( to re-establish correct speedometer operation.....a long, long story )

we simply smeared a lot of grease on the spocklet;chain when we put everything back together.

 

Jack

 

PS  our OD has two ball bearings on the OD output shaft.......thank goodness

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