Machinist_Bill Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Spinneyhill said: I often wonder if it is a good idea to put a groove in a bush. The groove just feeds the oil out each end of the bush without it actually lubricating anything? I have read this somewhere too. If you do not put in a groove, the spinning shaft and the surface tension of the oil pull the oil into the bush and spread it. If the groove is not in place then the "Load" of the spinning shaft would force out the lubrication. Then there would be a heat build up. Then the brass would seize onto the shaft. Brass loves to do this! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 10 hours ago, Spinneyhill said: I often wonder if it is a good idea to put a groove in a bush. The groove just feeds the oil out each end of the bush without it actually lubricating anything? I have read this somewhere too. If you do not put in a groove, the spinning shaft and the surface tension of the oil pull the oil into the bush and spread it. Bushings and Babbitt bearings should not be grooved to the ends for the reason you stated. Only between the ends in order to hold the lubricant within the bearing which allows the bearing to do what it's supposed to do. The theory behind this is a properly designed bearing will draw the lubricant creating a significant amount of pressure which lifts the shaft and prevents metal to metal contact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinneyhill Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 1 minute ago, cahartley said: Bushings and Babbitt bearings should not be grooved to the ends for the reason you stated. Thank you. That has always been my thinking. But that is much harder to do than to just run a groove right through! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cahartley Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 ^ For the hobbyist it's easier to do with a Dremel........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) When ever I try using my Dremel, the chuck keeps coming undone on it's own. Should it run counterclockwise or something? Ray. Edited February 2, 2018 by R.White (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just to add a couple ¢ worth to the grooves discussion and add a point about seals - Mr Hartley makes a great point. I did a lot of HD Truck brake installation training around North America for a major truck component manufacturer. It was always interesting to see the light come on for technicians when an explanation of "one" of the effects lateral movement of oil or grease lubricated shafts was explained. The oil or grease fills the gap between the shaft and the bushing, as long as the tolerances are within spec. Even with only a few thousands of lateral movement this creates a vacuum or sucking effect on the lubricant thus ensuring that the shaft is sufficiently lubricated. Very important to maintain correct clearance, for type of lubricant and shaft size. An improperly installed or worn out cam shaft seal on a HD truck air brake application would also suck/vacuum dirt into the space where lubricant was supposed to be. Very rapid wear resulted. Thus some seals, were, from the factory, installed backward to facilitate purging of grease at PM time and hinder contaminates from sucked it from the outside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Good information here! Thanks for discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.White Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 If you want to really improve the cooling effectiveness of that pump, fit one of the new 7 'curved' vane impellers. Things have come a long way since 1926 but modern fuels encourage our engines to run hotter. Ray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herm111 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 1:33 PM, cahartley said: Bushings and Babbitt bearings should not be grooved to the ends for the reason you stated. Only between the ends in order to hold the lubricant within the bearing which allows the bearing to do what it's supposed to do. The theory behind this is a properly designed bearing will draw the lubricant creating a significant amount of pressure which lifts the shaft and prevents metal to metal contact. The Grooves are called oil wells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herm111 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 1:33 PM, cahartley said: Bushings and Babbitt bearings should not be grooved to the ends for the reason you stated. Only between the ends in order to hold the lubricant within the bearing which allows the bearing to do what it's supposed to do. The theory behind this is a properly designed bearing will draw the lubricant creating a significant amount of pressure which lifts the shaft and prevents metal to metal contact. In some cases, the groove has to run out both ends, as in a bearing not being fed oil as in some splash systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herm111 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 1:35 PM, Spinneyhill said: Thank you. That has always been my thinking. But that is much harder to do than to just run a groove right through! Nothing to it Mr. Spinney, you can put in a circle groove in each end of the bearing, about 5/8's inside, and then put your straight line oil groove in top and bottom of the bearing, connecting the two circle grooves, and drill a oil in to bearing hole, where ever the oil enters, and line it up, and have the hole intersect the length way groove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herm111 Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 On 2/1/2018 at 4:48 AM, Machinist_Bill said: If the groove is not in place then the "Load" of the spinning shaft would force out the lubrication. Then there would be a heat build up. Then the brass would seize onto the shaft. Brass loves to do this! Bill " AGREE " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 (edited) Update for everyone. I bought a new shaft and a few other odds and ends from ROMAR. George is a stand up guy and has helped me tremendously with information and getting me the right parts. Im going to ditch the packing and use modern lip seals thanks to a few recommendations. Sligermachine (Kyle) here on the forums currently has my water pump and is going to make some new bearings for me. For the meantime I removed the rubber hoses and cleaned stuff up to get ready for the installation. I found something interesting though, maybe you guys and gals on the forum here can figure something out. When I removed the upper radiator hose I found a long peice of wire in the water jacket of the cylinder head. That wire was resting loosely in this area. (The red line represents where the wire was) Any ideas? Edited March 5, 2018 by DB26 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27dodger0 Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Looks to me like part of a coil to keep the hose from collapsing. Just a WAG however!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 15 hours ago, 27dodger0 said: Looks to me like part of a coil to keep the hose from collapsing. Just a WAG however!! I was thinking the same thing. Could have floated in there 20 years ago and no one noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheelmang Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Maybe someone thought there was a blockage in the head water jacket and was trying to clean it out with a homemade tool. Might want to blow some air in the water inlet just to make sure there is nothing else in there? Protect the outlet side from exiting debris when you do this. Don't ask how I know that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Good idea. And no I won't ask Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) Okay everyone. The ordeal is over and I am back up and running. I had to purchase a 12 ton press to get the gears back on the new shaft, but she's all back together now. First off a big thank you to Sligermachine here on the forums. He took my pump and and custom made the brand new bushings to replace my old marred ones. They are a perfect fit for the brand new shaft. He had a quick turn around and cared for my water pump like it was his own. He updated me on progress every step of the way. I will definitely be going back to him for future machining needs. Thanks goes to ROMAR. I got my new shaft and distributor drive gear and new miscellaneous parts from them. Great quality parts delivered fast. Thank you to Myers Early Dodge parts. I got my radiator hoses and some more miscellaneous things from them. I got the black hoses as they fit and look great. And a final huge thanks to all the great advice and recommendations I received from the all the members here in this thread and on this forum. Oh and I used the oil seals you recommended wheelmang! Thank You! Once the pump was repaired. I installed the new oil seals to replace the traditional packing. The original impeller installed quite easily onto the shaft. Like a said before, I then had to purchase a 12 ton press to install my new distributor gear and original main drive gear. They went on fairly easily. Nice tight fit. On with the new gaskets: And here it is installed in the car: Edited April 3, 2018 by DB26 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeC5 Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 Lookin' good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texacola Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 DB26 Had a thought regarding the wire you found in the water jacket. Have you determined if it is steel or perhaps a "sacrificial metal" that someone put there as an anode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26Willys Posted April 4, 2018 Share Posted April 4, 2018 It could be from the casting process. My '21 has a rod rolling around in the intake passage that would be extremely difficult to remove. The block had to have been cast around it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie L Butler Posted April 8, 2018 Share Posted April 8, 2018 You've gone to a lot of trouble, I've always considered a drip from the pump glands par for the course and keep an ice cream container under the pump when parked in the garage. If the packing is in good condition, it will only drip slightly and seal up after a few minutes once parked. I always check my radiator level before driving and keep a flagon of water on board in case it leaks. If I get a decent amount of water in the ice cream container and/ or notice a few more than the odd one or two drips when idling, I tighten the nut until it stops. I've just replaced the packing rope for the second time in the 20 yrsI've owned mine as it wouldn't stop leaking with tightening and the ice cream container would overflow when parked and I'd lose too much coolant, so I've repacked it and its good again. It's a very fiddly job, you have very little clearance and must pick out every bit of the old spent packing, then use a razor blade to cut a new piece. I just use quarter inch pump packing graphite rope. It's better to have it a sixteenth too long than too short and you'll know when it's right or a tad long because it will be a devil of a job to get the washer in and the thread to engage in order to tighten it, but once you succeed it'll be good for another 20 years! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DB26 Posted April 9, 2018 Author Share Posted April 9, 2018 On 4/3/2018 at 6:03 PM, Texacola said: DB26 Had a thought regarding the wire you found in the water jacket. Have you determined if it is steel or perhaps a "sacrificial metal" that someone put there as an anode? Hadn't thought of that. I guess it's possible. I left it out of the equation for now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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