38Buick 80C Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 9 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: This will sound silly to you all but I find door latches to be ...weird science... How does this work is my question? Looking at the excerpt from your picture above I would think that the "rod" between the handle mechanism and the latch attaches at the point indicated by the green arrow. And then this lever, with the chrome catch attached, moves horizontally, in the direction of the yellow arrow, to pull the catch in and release the door. But the rivet at the red arrow would seem to stop that rod from movement in any direction. I am sure there is a simple answer but it just does not look so obvious. i had to go look to understand it myself but it would seem the red are two seperate rivets that just happen to be on e on top of the other. the red with yellow arrow moves, but you can just barely make out another piece below it it sandwiched between the moving part and the overall latch housing. that doesn't move and is the other rivet you are seeing in the green arrow'd latch opposite side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, 38Buick 80C said: i had to go look to understand it myself but it would seem the red are two seperate rivets that just happen to be on e on top of the other. the red with yellow arrow moves, but you can just barely make out another piece below it it sandwiched between the moving part and the overall latch housing. that doesn't move and is the other rivet you are seeing in the green arrow'd latch opposite side. Ah ha! Thanks for looking. That makes sense that they are two separate rivets. Especially since the one from the Green Arrow side looks to be very tight as the one on the Red Arrow side looks like it is a tiny bit loose. Still seems like a lot of action what with that 2nd lever in there but I am good to go with the info you already provided. The latches do look fabulous. Kinda a shame to bury them back inside the door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, JohnD1956 said: Ah ha! Thanks for looking. That makes sense that they are two separate rivets. Especially since the one from the Green Arrow side looks to be very tight as the one on the Red Arrow side looks like it is a tiny bit loose. Still seems like a lot of action what with that 2nd lever in there but I am good to go with the info you already provided. The latches do look fabulous. Kinda a shame to bury them back inside the door. Even if they cant be seen, for me personally I just would rather work with clean parts. It just feels more productive 🤣. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 10 hours ago, JohnD1956 said: This will sound silly to you all but I find door latches to be ...weird science... How does this work is my question? Looking at the excerpt from your picture above I would think that the "rod" between the handle mechanism and the latch attaches at the point indicated by the green arrow. And then this lever, with the chrome catch attached, moves horizontally, in the direction of the yellow arrow, to pull the catch in and release the door. But the rivet at the red arrow would seem to stop that rod from movement in any direction. I am sure there is a simple answer but it just does not look so obvious. I think you are a bit confused by some extra parts in the photo. "I would think that the "rod" between the handle mechanism and the latch attaches at the point indicated by the green arrow." No, the lock button rod attaches at your green arrow. The handle fits into a hole in the latch mechanism. The other smaller parts are part of the window mechanism, not the door latch/lock mechanism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 hour ago, MCHinson said: I think you are a bit confused by some extra parts in the photo. "I would think that the "rod" between the handle mechanism and the latch attaches at the point indicated by the green arrow." No, the lock button rod attaches at your green arrow. The handle fits into a hole in the latch mechanism. The other smaller parts are part of the window mechanism, not the door latch/lock mechanism. Matt, those are all door latch related parts in the photo... latch and remote and the between them the rods shown at the bottom mounted at the green arrow. The outer handle fits into the hole the inside handle goes on the remotes. window remotes are seen here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCHinson Posted January 8, 2022 Share Posted January 8, 2022 21 minutes ago, 38Buick 80C said: Matt, those are all door latch related parts in the photo... latch and remote and the between them the rods shown at the bottom mounted at the green arrow. The outer handle fits into the hole the inside handle goes on the remotes. window remotes are seen here Thanks. I should have stayed out of this one. I have not had my 80 Series door apart. I have only had a 60 series door apart. With all of the different photos of different collections of parts from different angles, I am now confused to the point that I can't picture how it all goes together. I apparently misunderstood his previous post thinking he thought the outer door handle was remote from the latch. I am fairly sure that is not the case, although my 1937 80 Series rear door hinges backwards from your 1938 80 Series rear doors. A photo of all of the door parts assembled together would be helpful for future reference to others working on a similar project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 8, 2022 Author Share Posted January 8, 2022 I attempted to match the green and cream markings I found on the transmission. I used an oil paint for the green from a hobby store and Testors modelers enamel for the cream. Both came out reasonably fine. The oil paint was too thick and the enamel too thin... to match the original something in between would have been Goldilocks...just right... I will have another shot on the other trans So we will see. I have some Testors green enamel as well I may try that on that one. For a detail 99% of people will never see...especially since 2 of the spots are extremely concealed and covered by other things. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 "Looks fine to me!" 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted January 9, 2022 Share Posted January 9, 2022 I love your attention to detail like the paint spots. In the end it does matter because that is what they really did at the factory and there was a good reason for doing it.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 9, 2022 Author Share Posted January 9, 2022 (edited) more clean up of misc. parts today window tracks for 4 side windows and rear quarter windows I started playing around with the carburetor a bit. I want to find someone local who can do chromate solution dip (carbking told me about a place in TN), so any one who knows a place please let me know. I did find an extra hole/screw in the upper neck, that's not supposed to be there and once screw stripped coming out of the upper portion of the carb. I know I got a bad spare top, but i think i may have one more good top. I will have to go searching. In the mean time I cleaned up and rebuilt the lower carb. base Finally I cleaned up the headlight housings and i already have UVIRA coated reflectors ready to go in This week the motor mounts will go to Steele for revulcanizing and I am also gonna pick up a windshield gasket. Steele is relatively local which is good cause their windshield gasket is incorrect for '38 Roadmasters. I had to have my 80C shortened as did my father for one of his 81 or 81F. I'm bringing my glass with me, they will cut it, correct the length and resplice it back together. I am going to talk to them a permanent correction though it does seem the DePouli family is their most consistent buyer of these 🤣. Speaking of glass. the repro glass i bought arrive poorly packed and in pieces... rejected it with the shipper and its headed back to the supplier for replacement. I was expecting a huge box with foam between each piece and around especially since it was going cross country. Nope just all wrapped together and about an inch of Styrofoam peanuts around it. Their problem... Edited January 11, 2022 by 38Buick 80C (see edit history) 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Steele Rubber updated the windshield gasket. It was right the first time, no splicing required... Love it! And motor mounts being revulcanized. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 11, 2022 Author Share Posted January 11, 2022 Valves, Springs and Guides arrived from Egge today!! 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemb Posted January 12, 2022 Share Posted January 12, 2022 3 hours ago, 38Buick 80C said: Valves, Springs and Guides arrived from Egge today!! Awesome! Your family must have been excited! 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 Now this IS exciting... Block, Head and misc other motor related stuff delivered to the machine shop, some just for boil cleaning. They are backed up like everyone else so in a couple months they will get to it. I rented a pick up from U-Haul which was surprisingly easy. This shop can't handle the crank so that will go to another shop. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 15, 2022 Author Share Posted January 15, 2022 Earlier this week I tried to get a paint match from the original paint on the steering column. The middle brown is the original looked better when we were matching it. oh well onward. I did paint the bottom half of the steering column and then i painted the steering box. The paper towel cardboard inner was just the right fit to protect the new brown from the new black paint worked perfect Also hit the parking brake in the same brown and the shift lever 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Brian, are the shifter, brake handle and steering column all painted the same brown? The picture with the steering box makes the column look different (lighter). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 10 hours ago, EmTee said: Brian, are the shifter, brake handle and steering column all painted the same brown? The picture with the steering box makes the column look different (lighter). Are they all the same color: YES! What is that color supposed to be: Complicated answer First off ignore the lighter color on my column that's not original. the darker purpler brown is the original paint. Now for the complex part. If you have read all the original Torque Tube magazines like i have you'll know Harry Logan (3rd editor) did an amazing job documenting authenticity items for 37-38 Buicks. He had a color match done for these items and had the color on file at Tower Paint in Wis. unfortunately that organization has not done a good job with its history and they no longer have the formula, but it was called fawn or taupe. I used it on 80C because of what Harry wrote in the TT. That said the color was NOTICEABLY lighter than seemingly original paint on those items on the 80C. That said nothing on the 80C was a trust-wroth match to me. either it had been poorly restored, was in poor condition, or may not have been original to the car. I've seen several variations of color for these items across 37-38s. none really ever get questioned. But it would seem that on the big series cars these items were a darker brown than the small series cars or there were two colors of brown used. Note the lighter color on my column is Harry's Fawn. Between the 2 RM's I own (produced in 2 different factories) and have restored along with my father's 2 38 RMs I'm pretty confident a darker color than Harry's fawn was correct for RM's, BUT>>>> Here is an unrestored Roadmaster...a model 87 in fact. This car you can clear see all three items are the same color. It seems to be a shade in between my darker original color and the fawn, could that be fading in the sun? doubtful for the lower part of the column. The bottom line its a color that is very hard to match (this was actually my second attempt) and Buick may have used more than one color either by factory or changing over time. But the parking brake, column and shift level are to be the same color. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) Thanks Brian, you're certainly right in pointing out that the paint used inside these cars could have differed between factories (maybe different suppliers?), car series and/or production date. I'm sure that GM wouldn't let a paint shortage hold up the production line. It's also likely that anyone there when these cars were built couldn't imagine we'd be talking about interior paint color variations 80 years later... Thank you for providing the background info that went into the color selection. Whether taupe, fawn, or ____, it will certainly be beautiful when finished. Edited January 16, 2022 by EmTee typo (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) With 4 38 Rams between us if you spend enough time off looking dad or I usually have the part... Like this set of louvers stuffed behind the water heater in my garage. No I haven't found a left side one yet. Maybe dad has that. Edited January 16, 2022 by 38Buick 80C (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 16, 2022 Author Share Posted January 16, 2022 (edited) and within a few minutes it was out of the panel. then another few minutes for the center stainless trips to be removed that's over-spray all over it from hanging in my other garage on the wall when I painted the 80C some paint remover, and then mothers on 0000 steel wool and I got the stainless pretty close. A little more time when I feel like doing it and cleaning up some scratches and this one will be the one I use for the car. The steel louvers themselves are in great shape. Just a little clean up and they will be ready for paint. back side photo was prior to removing stainless strips There is a LH side on eBay, but i think I want to try Tacheny first. The other thinking I was thinking about was whether I want to invest in a polishing wheel etc. and not wait for the local shop to free up, but yeah I'm not there yet. Edited January 16, 2022 by 38Buick 80C (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 20, 2022 Author Share Posted January 20, 2022 So 11pm last night this was delivered. I will return the incorrect one and all is right in the exhaust world... 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 22, 2022 Author Share Posted January 22, 2022 (edited) Spent the day cleaning up the garage trying to make some space. The Bimmer under the Charger is gonna move into the space I created. That will leave me the other bay for something "longer"... Also painted the ignition assembly. I sanded the louvers of the side vent, but haven't spent the necessary time to really get the stainless perfect. Tomorrow is to be warmer so that'll be my project. Edited January 22, 2022 by 38Buick 80C (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 Not bad, needs a little more clean up and the mid louver ribs, but came out nice. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 That was fast!!!! Steele Rubber Rocks!!! Motor mounts revulcanized already back in hand... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 24, 2022 Author Share Posted January 24, 2022 Generator, starter and distributor all off to be rebuilt today. Crank drop off at second shop. They said it will need to be ground as I suspected. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted January 29, 2022 Author Share Posted January 29, 2022 I forgot to post this from Thursday. Off she goes to separate the body from the chassis and both to the media blaster. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEarl Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 On 1/22/2022 at 2:17 PM, 38Buick 80C said: The Bimmer under the Charger is gonna move into the space I created. That will leave me the other bay for something "longer"... Um hummm 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) Hey Brian - another '38 question for you... I was checking my car for missing fender bolts since I noticed a couple were missing or loose while I had the wheels off doing the brake cylinders. Afterwards I grabbed a front fender at the bottom in front of the wheel opening and when I lifted up to see whether it was 'tight' it felt like the entire front clip moved (i.e., pivoted) about the center of the car. It was more movement than I was expecting. I thought that maybe there were loose or missing radiator support bolts, so I crawled underneath to check. All I saw was a single large bolt (actually the nut for the bolt) in the center of the radiator support accessible through an access hole in the front crossmember. I put a socket on it and tightened it about 1/2 turn; it wasn't really loose in the first place. Anyway, after that the fender movement was about the same, but now it is accompanied by a squeeky rubber on metal sound. It looks as though that's all that attaches the radiator support to the frame - is that right? The fenders then hang from brackets attached at each side of the radiator support. Is that the way your Roadmasters are assembled? Seems like the forward end of the car basically 'floats' on the front crossmember... I just went back through your photos and I think I confirmed what I said above. Looks like that one bolt directly under the radiator is all there is... Edited February 9, 2022 by EmTee added photo link (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 9, 2022 Author Share Posted February 9, 2022 52 minutes ago, EmTee said: Looks like that one bolt directly under the radiator is all there is... yup that's all folks. The engine side panels and the fenders bolted to the cowl create the rest of the structure to secure it all from moving. As far as your new creaking sound after tightening. there are some pads of unknown material that go between the rad support and the frame. I suspect they were rubber with fabric infused at one point and then I think one is a steel shim, but mine are pretty much inflexible rectangles of I don't know what. I actually could not even get them off the rad support. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 On my '38 Special (which should be similar to the Century) there are additional bolts through the fender into the frame just under the vents on the fender side panel. That adds significant stability to the front clip. There is insulating material between the fender and the frame to prevent squeaks. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 5 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: On my '38 Special (which should be similar to the Century) there are additional bolts through the fender into the frame just under the vents on the fender side panel. That adds significant stability to the front clip. There is insulating material between the fender and the frame to prevent squeaks. yes same on the big series I neglected to mention those... though my 87 didn't have them installed incidentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmTee Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 7 hours ago, DonMicheletti said: On my '38 Special (which should be similar to the Century) there are additional bolts through the fender into the frame just under the vents on the fender side panel Yes, I see those on my car. I was just a little surprised by the amount of movement I got when lifting up on the fender ahead of the front wheel opening and just behind the bumper. I'm going to go back and check tightness of those bolts under the fender vents just to be sure everything is 100%... Thank you both for the help! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Neither front ends wiggle on either of my '38's. Special and Roadmaster 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 Today was brake day I worked on the brake booster on my 69 Charger with mixed results. But on the '38 I have a beautiful rebuilt Master Cylinder now. I had it powder coated and then rebuilt it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 And bolted to the trans for safe keeping 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 12, 2022 Author Share Posted February 12, 2022 This past week I received my repro glass in good condition, so that is safely stored away. I also got back some more powder coating...as evident by the master cylinder. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 I found and purchased the steel thrust washer to be able to complete the rebuild of the spare transmission. I need a gasket set but I assembled for painting. Here it is with the first coat applied. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted March 3, 2022 Author Share Posted March 3, 2022 Bad news from the machine shop. Both the head and the block have a crack in it. We have a spare motor so we'll get that one to the machine shop instead. Onward... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancemb Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 2 hours ago, 38Buick 80C said: Bad news from the machine shop. Both the head and the block have a crack in it. We have a spare motor so we'll get that one to the machine shop instead. Onward... Ouch! Can the block not be welded, or just not worth the effort/expense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38Buick 80C Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 1 hour ago, lancemb said: Ouch! Can the block not be welded, or just not worth the effort/expense? Shop is saying no options... But I also don't take no options as an answer, so I will investigate, but will move forward with the spare 38 block and head. Actually for now just the head as I got to figure out how to transport the block from dad's my truck rental option isn't going to be viable in this scenario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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