Year? Make? Model?

[Timmy2]

Looking for an ID on this classic derelict.  It might be available if there's interest in this sort of thing.

[keiser31]

Almost has that 1929 Franklin look by the rear window area and the fender mounted parking light. Some had 10 spokes, some had 12 spokes. We need better photos....dashboard, grille....

Edited July 24, 2017 by keiser31 (see edit history)

[1912Staver]

Derelict 100% , classic ? ,probably not.  It looks like a fairly average late 20's sedan. Unfortunately it is long past saving. Even as a parts car its value is minimal. If it is a Franklin as keiser31 suggests it is unfortunate it was allowed to deteriorate this badly. But even the pretty decent Franklin sedan in keiser31's post above is not going to be worth all that much in todays market.  Unless they are something very special most later 20's closed cars are at a heavy discount in todays marketplace. Not saying they aren't interesting to some of us; and they can be great hobby cars,  just not worth any where what a similar model and year roadster or touring would bring. And definitely not something to bring back from the dead like the one behind the chain link would require.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 24, 2017 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[lump]

Timmy, 

 

A word of helpful explanation to a "newbie." (it's SUPPOSED to be helpful, anyway!) And by the way; WELCOME to this forum!! 

 

On this forum and other environments where hardcore antique car enthusiasts gather, the word "classic" has a very different meaning than it does for most of the rest of the world. Here many  folks use the word "Classic" to refer only to a very select few models of very, very special cars. The Classic Car Club of America (CCCA), publishes a very exact list of accepted models, and if you use the word "Classic" around them to describe an ordinary old car (regardless of age), you are likely to see raised eyebrows and looks of disapproval. Following is the definition from the CCCA website: 

 

The Classic Car Club of America defines a Classic as a “Fine” or “Distinctive” automobile, American or foreign built, produced between 1915 and 1948. Generally, a Classic was high-priced when new and was built in limited quantities. Other factors, including engine displacement, custom coachwork and luxury accessories, such as power brakes, power clutch, and “one-shot” or automatic lubrication systems, help determine whether a car is considered to be a Classic.

 

So you can see why some folks here would say that the cool old derelict car in your photo is not a "classic." However, I believe it is at least very, very cool. And if someone has that some make/year/model car in the process of restoration, you can bet that they would be VERY happy to find it. 

 

Cheers, and welcome once again. 

 

[kgreen]

It looks like a great project to me.  Then, I'm in it for the fun of it; meaning I expect a loss on everything I touch.  Sure hope it finds a good home and never has an SBC stuffed into it.

[1912Staver]

Sad to say but these days a fair number of cars like this are simply scrapped.  Or used as yard art and eventually scrapped. Even the street rodder's generally don't want them as the body structure is largely wood that has usually crumbled to dust.  The practical reality is that  4 door closed cars from this time frame that have been allowed to decay to the extent of this car are virtually never resurrected. They might donate a few parts to their better condition brothers but as a basis for a restoration almost never. When with a little looking a person can find the same car that can probably be driven on to a trailer for the trip home in the $10,000.00 range cars like this make no sense except as parts.

 

Greg in Canada

[mcdarrunt]

I would consider that car excellent starting material. There are two distinct lines of thought when it comes to restoring old cars; one is always to keep an eye on the dollar column and the other is just the pure satisfaction of accomplishing the task. I, to my wife's dismay, fall into the latter. I tell her I don't golf, hunt, fish, bowl, party, drink, or do any other activities that cost thousands a year but rather spend those thousands on what brings me both enjoyment and satisfaction. Once done I have no use what- so- ever for the finished project and just want it gone to make room for the next. Through the years I have learned all types of welding, metal working, wood working, lead work, wiring, paint work, mill work, lathe turning, and a myriad of other skills which are mine to keep.

[1912Staver]

Hi mcdarrunt, please don't take my comments the wrong way. If we were looking at a middle of the road brass era car I would agree without hesitation. And my brass era basket case project started from something as bad or worse than the circa 1928 sedan in the chain link compound.

  The difference is that there are much better starting points out there for the 1920's car. And for generally quite low prices, and not that hard to find in most parts of North America. No doubt the sedan could be restored, but the investment in both time and money would make the proposition unattractive to all but the most keen late 20's fan. Especially when a decent ,cost effective, original, useable survivor can most likely be found in almost any state within a couple of months.

 Most brass cars are a much different proposition. Much fewer in number , { I have seen at least 100 cars like the 20's sedan for every single brass car project} quite a bit more expensive except for the odd entry level car, Hupp, Saxon, etc. altogether an apples and oranges comparison.  It makes most basket case brass cars a viable proposition just as surely as badly weathered later 20's cars are unviable. Every other point you bring up is to me completely valid, and pretty much describes my hobby involvement.  

 

Greg in Canada

[mcdarrunt]

Hey Greg,

  No problem but once again the subject of DOLLARS was brought up and this is NOT why I dive off in the deep end of the pool on ones that will never return a fraction of the cost. I just like the satisfaction of bringing an "impossible" one back from the grave. This is my only hobby and I probably spend no more than others do on theirs. No travel, no vacations, no parties or gatherings, none of the latest electronics (I still have a flip phone) or any other things "normal" people do or have. It keeps me from vegetating on the couch in front of a TV and gives a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when finished even though when done I don't care to drive one a single mile. Here is one that came out of a wash gulley in Minnesota and ended up in Dick"s Car Museum in San Marcos Texas. It kept me off my dead butt for two years and is not the worse one the dogs have drug in.  Again, I don't care about the value or the popularity,just the challenge.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Curti]

  No problem but once again the subject of DOLLARS was brought up and this is NOT why I dive off in the deep end of the pool on ones that will never return a fraction of the cost. I just like the satisfaction of bringing an "impossible" one back from the grave. This is my only hobby and I probably spend no more than others do on theirs. No travel, no vacations, no parties or gatherings, none of the latest electronics (I still have a flip phone) or any other things "normal" people do or have. It keeps me from vegetating on the couch in front of a TV and gives a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment when finished even though when done I don't care to drive one a single mile. Here is one that came out of a wash gulley in Minnesota and ended up in Dick"s Car Museum in San Marcos Texas. It kept me off my dead butt for two years and is not the worse one the dogs have drug in.  Again, I don't care about the value or the popularity,just the challenge.

 

And THIS is exactly why we call it a HOBBY !

Edited July 25, 2017 by Curti
update (see edit history)

[lump]

Wow, Mcdarrunt, beautiful work! I really admire your skills, tenacity, and attitude. 

[JACK M]

Hey Timmy !!!

Where's it at? I would put that out by the street in front of my house so the neighbors that live just far enough away to wonder who that loud guy is lives.

Everybody closer pretty much ignores me as I am the senior curmudgeon in the hood. (check that, there are two of us, but the other guy isn't as loud).

[Guest SaddleRider]

On ‎7‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 11:04 AM, 1912Staver said:

Derelict 100% , classic ? ,probably not.............  Unless they are something very special most later 20's closed cars are at a heavy discount in todays marketplace...........

 

I don't think you are being fair.  Certainly not fair to folks who need to make a living selling used cars.   Yes, you are correct that the word "classic", when referring to automobiles,   in the past referred only to the largest, most elegant, most powerful "top-of-the-line" cars of the late 20's to the start of World War Two.  

 

But be fair - time marches on and cultures change.    Yes, the average person has figured out that we in the Classic Car Club Of America were onto something.    But WHAT ?    Who really cares ?    Wont my 2004 Toyota Rav be a "classic" in just a few more years ?  Why not ?  

 

If  someone has an ordinary car of ANY era you need to unload,   why NOT call it a "classic".   The word "classic" can now be found on just about anything someone is trying to sell.   I was at the supermarket yesterday and bought some "classic" shoe-laces,  some "classic" macaroni salad,   amongst other products.

 

Bottom  line, failing to call something  "classic" these days will make people wonder what is wrong with you !

 

So let's "lighten up" on terminology.    There was a time and place to worry about things like that - but those times are long gone.

[keiser31]

On 7/24/2017 at 10:37 AM, Timmy2 said:

Looking for an ID on this classic derelict.  It might be available if there's interest in this sort of thing.

So....can you get more photos of it for us?

[1912Staver]

Sorry SaddleRider, perhaps its the High School Shop teacher in me. But here on the forum of the AACA I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest correct terminology be applied to something as clear cut ; within the old car hobby community at least , as the appropriate meaning of a very specific category such as "Classic Car".  I was a bit perhaps a bit sarcastic in my original post but not in any way that was intended to be mean or condescending.  I often hear the term misused by the general public, and even now and then by car hobby people who should, and probably do know better. But I just cringe a bit inwardly and usually let it slide. It's really not that big a deal to me, and I have definitely encountered others who do make a big deal of putting people straight on the text book definition.  But I recognise that the term has evolved into a general description for a wide range of things both automotive and otherwise. A hundred years ago if you mentioned the classics people would assume you were referring to the works of Plato or Homer. These day in some circles you are obviously talking about traditional recipe Coke.

  But this is after all one of the better vintage car discussion forums out there, and as such a "classic" car is probably best referred to with the CCCA meaning in mind.

 

Greg in Canada

Edited July 26, 2017 by 1912Staver (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon]

Well, I zoomed in as close as the limited quality picture would allow me to. I am fairly sure that it IS a Franklin. Hardly anybody else still used full elliptic front springs on a full size sedan that late. That means it probably also IS a CCCA classic. It also could mean that it has a wooden chassis main frame (If I recall correctly, last used in '28, someone please correct me if I am wrong). I couldn't quite tell in the picture. I also think I could see a bit of the air-cooling covers, and a few other Franklin details. 

 

About half the cars I have restored over the years came to me about that bad or worse. I, too, am one of those crazies that likes to restore what others throw out. However, I am afraid that my days of acquiring new projects are behind me. I already have at least six I hope to get done before I can do no more.

[Rusty_OToole]

On 7/24/2017 at 1:37 PM, Timmy2 said:

Looking for an ID on this classic derelict.  It might be available if there's interest in this sort of thing.

Bring your own shovel.

[mcdarrunt]

It should be easy to see if it has an air cooled engine which all Franklins did.