The starter just grunts

[Ttotired]

A growler is used for finer wire armatures such as generator armatures (as pictured)

The effect that a growler has on a starter armature that has much heavier and few turns is negligible.

The growler effect is to induce a voltage in the windings. If there is a short between the windings (coils) it will make the hacksaw blade vibrate.

The voltage induced in the windings can also be used to test for open circuits between the com and the windings by using the hacksaw blade

to short out the com bars and observing the spark.

The voltage produced in the starter windings is too low and usually are only 1 turn (coil)

Best test on a starter armature is a visual. If one or more coils is/are black, bin it. Also, looking at the arcing on the com bars can also be an indication

of the armatures condition

We also used to use a 240V series test light to test them to ground. If shorted, it would make the light come on. If you wernt watching what you

were doing, it would kick you like a mule

 

 

[60FlatTop]

I own a lot of books, have studied while others told anecdotes, bought special one time use tools, and retrieved a lot of parts from professionals, simply to get them back in my hands so I could fix them.

This hobby evolved from a bunch of Ford Model T and A owners whom thought you could fix anything with spit and baling wire. Sears and Roebuck encouraged them by selling obsolete tires and batteries,

The only thing that has changed is the designation of spit. You can't spit on stuff like they used to because it is potentially harmful bodily fluid.

Twenty percent of the old Ford guys remain. And of that other 80%, a bunch have businesses based on "Old School" cracker barrel sessions.

 

The old cars we work on today are the equivalent of the foreign cars of the 1950's.

 

On the bushing, I would just skin it out of there with a small diamond point chisel and a pair of pliers.

Bernie

[Bhigdog]

49 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

On the bushing, I would just skin it out of there with a small diamond point chisel and a pair of pliers.

 

Inelegant but possible..............Bob

[60FlatTop]

I still have this browser minimized.

 

That's Bernie vs. the pressurized grease technique. I bet more people have told that grease and bushing story than have actually done it. Lots more.

 

I got pretty good with a diamond chisel because the maintenance boss heard a tale about plumbers being able to fix steam traps. More anecdotal knowledge morphed into dogma.

 

It makes me smile.

[JohnD1956]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I bet more people have told that grease and bushing story than have actually done it. Lots more.

 

Cannot speak for a generator bushing, but I know for a fact it works on pilot shaft bushings!  Mush easier than it even sounds.

[Bloo]

3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I bet more people have told that grease and bushing story than have actually done it. Lots more.

I have done it, on starter bushings too. I wish I had heard about it years earlier.

 

Before that, I would take a broken hacksaw blade and cut a slot in the bushing. Just before it cuts through I would catch the end with a sharp chisel and try to break it at the slot and roll it out of there. This works, but not near as well as it sounds. It takes much longer than the grease method too.

[60FlatTop]

I think I did one starter bushing in the 55+ years of doing a lot of stuff with old cars. I remember it was an Oil-lite bushing so it must have been a MoPar. I'm kind of glad I bought all those Generous Motors cars. And good ones, too, not all clapped out..

 

And I'm pretty sure, if there is a wood dowel in my garage, its got a little American flag attached to it.

 

I still don't feel a void in my experiences.

Bernie

[Bloo]

I used to always replace them until I discovered that the original bushings are often tighter than the replacements, even with a bunch of miles. I check pretty close before replacing now. If they're shot you will usually see visible thrust wear on one side of the bushing even before you measure.

 

So... thats not oilite in GMs? What is it? Plain bronze? I rebuilt a 30s Buick starter that had steel on steel at the back and lubricated with an oil cup. Better not forget to oil that one. I haven't ran into too many like that.

[Bhigdog]

Just for laughs I tried removing an old gen bushing with the grease method. It wouldn't budge. Likely the thinness of the bushing doesn't provide enough hydraulic area to be acted upon. Twer it me that HAD to replace one I would try the grease method, then the vertical milling machine, then the tap,. then the diamond point chisel. In that order............Bob

[old-tank]

13 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Just for laughs I tried removing an old gen bushing with the grease method. It wouldn't budge. Likely the thinness of the bushing doesn't provide enough hydraulic area to be acted upon. Twer it me that HAD to replace one I would try the grease method, then the vertical milling machine, then the tap,. then the diamond point chisel. In that order............Bob

then the vertical milling machine...dang, why didn't I think of that ( gotta get mine out of the dusty corner  )

If any of you try the tap and see how fast and easy it is you won't ever consider any of those gorilla methods again.

[Bhigdog]

1 minute ago, old-tank said:

then the vertical milling machine...dang, why didn't I think of that ( gotta get mine out of the dusty corner  )

If any of you try the tap and see how fast and easy it is you won't ever consider any of those gorilla methods again.

 

Yeah, I realize most guys here don't have a Bridgeport or lathe  but I do, hence the "twer it me". Most guys don't have a 5/8 tap either including me. So again, twer it me  that needed the tap and being too cheap to buy one, I'd chuck a piece of 5/8 tool steel in the lathe. Single point a 5/8 -11 thread. Put that in the Bridge port and mill two flutes. Torch harden and draw it to the proper temper and remove the %*^#$@* bushing.

Lots-o-ways to skin this cat. some easy, some hard and some just plain the long way around.

Sometimes the long way around is the most enjoyable......................Bob

[Ttotired]

As an auto sparky, I have always removed them using a tap and installed using an old engine valve.

I have had ones I have had to chisel out, but nothing special used to do it, an old screw driver works.

I have never had the grease method work for me but I wouldn't do it just because of the mess (sparky grease allergy )

 

 

[Earl B.]

No work on the starter.  My heart acted up and I was in the hospital a few days, sent home with "DO NOTHING" instructions.  I hope I can get to it next week.  Doing nothing is the hardest work I've ever done!

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Earl, take it easy. Been there, done that. I agree, doing nothing is difficult.

 

  Ben

[jackofalltrades70]

Grab some of the neighborhood kids that like and enjoy seeing your car and enlist some help. You'd be a great teacher!

[Bhigdog]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 11:40 AM, Bhigdog said:

 

Yeah, I realize most guys here don't have a Bridgeport or lathe  but I do, hence the "twer it me". Most guys don't have a 5/8 tap either including me. So again, twer it me  that needed the tap and being too cheap to buy one, I'd chuck a piece of 5/8 tool steel in the lathe. Single point a 5/8 -11 thread. Put that in the Bridge port and mill two flutes. Torch harden and draw it to the proper temper and remove the %*^#$@* bushing.

Lots-o-ways to skin this cat. some easy, some hard and some just plain the long way around.

Sometimes the long way around is the most enjoyable......................Bob

 

Since I posted this I've been turned onto a quick and easy way to make a tap for a one or two time use or to chase boogered up threads. Say you need the above mentioned 5/8-11 tap. Take a 5/8-11 bolt and grind 4 flats on the end at about a 30 deg angle. That's it. You have a tap to cut 5/8-11 threads in softer material and you don't even need a tap wrench to turn it........... We don't need no stinking lathes or Bridgeports..............Bob

Edited July 10, 2017 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Earl B.]

New Bushings in and new brushes....finally!!!  I've cleaned everything and it's plum purdy.... haha.   Now, the  big silver thing and small copper thing on the end of the shaft...should I sand on them with a fine paper just to smooth them up a bit?

 

Was the starter painted?  If so, what color?    Thanks for all your help!!!   Earl

[Beemon]

The commutator (copper bit on the end the brushes ride again) could use some polish as that's what makes the electrical connection. You don't need to worry about the large windings because that creates the magnetic field that spins the armature. Don't use sand paper, use something like a scotchbrite pad.

 

As far as paint goes, the back plate is aluminum, the housing/solenoid is a semi-gloss black and the nose cone is raw cast iron, with the linkage being a cad plated color.