Are 1950's cars past their peak?

[John_S_in_Penna]

30 minutes ago, padgett said:

 '70s also marked the rise of the now unobtanium plastic pieces that crumbled away after a few years (3D printing has yet to step up).

 

Actually, those plastic "bumper fillers" are

being reproduced for many, many cars of the

1970's.  Thankfully, they aren't unobtainable,

but are available from numerous suppliers.

Cheers to all those suppliers that make 

owning an old car easier.

 

So if you really want a 1970's car, don't hesitate

to get one!  My 1978 Lincoln Mark V has a

ride that is more relaxing and more comfortable

than that of any modern car I know.

Edited March 4, 2017 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[F&J]

3 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

Also, who doesn't want to be driving the one that turns eyes and gets the thumbs up and wins the Awards?

 

 

I'm of a way different mindset. I also feel that "most" vintage car owners in my area don't really own cars to get awards and thumbs up.  I do not own any modern/semi modern vehicles.  I only own vintage cars and trucks because those are what I prefer to drive "all of the time".

 

I do not go to shows or cruises.  I don't mind having to stop to answer a question when I go to a store or gas station, but I honestly wish my cars and trucks were invisible.  I don't really want to be noticed, but many people do, because they are all vintage and therefore "noticeable".  My cars/trucks range from a 1930 to a 1970.  Each one was modified to suit my driving in todays demands, or else I could not drive them comfortably or safely.  My 66 Camper Special Chevy 4x4 can safely tow/handle/stop a loaded car trailer at 75 MPH on highways for long distance.  That would be physically impossible with a bone stock one.

 

Because I only have owned vintage vehicles since 1995, I do modify each one where it "simply needs those modifications".  I insist on good handling, and things like brakes and gear ratios, because I do not want to be forced to have a modern vehicle to have those basic few safety things.

 

My son just got a so-called "antique" truck; an 83 Chevy Silverado 4x4 short bed.  It "simply" does not need ANY modifications at all, so it will have NONE.  It was the first year for the new automatic overdrive, and also has all the modern niceties like p/s. p/b, a/c, tilt, p/w, p/locks etc etc.  It will still do just super in todays driving demands, so there is no sane reason to change anything.... even though it is 34 years old. It won't be a daily driver as he has a modern Jetta.

 

I refuse to "put up with" any shortcomings with any vintage car at my age.  In the distant past, I had to get rid of some really classy old bone-stock 30s-50s cars that just could not survive on todays busy faster roads with texting drivers not paying attention.

 

Before anyone asks...  ...NO, I would NOT modify certain antique cars like an L-29 Cord or an Auburn, etc.  But the common stuff is all fair game..

 

.

[Doug Novak]

I understand what you're saying and agree totally with you that for the purposes you want to use your vehicles for, doing the mods that you need to do are for good reasons. There are two different schools of thought, both sound and good in thinking.

 

Interesting about your sons Chevy. I also have a Chevy 4X4, it's a 1984 K5 Silverado that I bought in '87. I used it to tow my Boat around in the summer and for Winter Snow transportation. Love this truck. It's waiting for me to restore it behind the Garage but Major Rust, Brakes and Transmission problems keep it as a "someday I will get to it project", but realistically it's probably to far gone now to be doable. Coincidentally, I had a Jetta too but traded it in 2 years ago for a VW Tiguan as the daily driver. 

Edited March 4, 2017 by Doug Novak (see edit history)

[F&J]

9 minutes ago, Doug Novak said:

Interesting about your sons Chevy. I also have a Chevy 4X4, it's a 1984 K5 Silverado that I bought in '87. I used it to tow my Boat around in the summer and for Winter Snow transportation. Love this truck.

 

My son really is not into working on things.  He wanted a "classic" or "vintage" looking truck to occasionally tow a trailer, or slide his small boat into.  He is quite tall, so there is not enough leg room in the 72-and older GM trucks like my 66.  He grew up with overdrive ratios so that was a priority, as he demands a low cruising RPM for whatever personal reason.  He took 6 months to find the right "73-87" one; a 75k mile estate truck that once came here from dry Texas, but never was driven in Connecticut salt.  Got it so very cheap as it was not running since 1997, and not advertised.  Pure good fortune, here in the nasty rustbelt.

 

I started driving squarebody 4x4 GMs in spring of 1974, with a mint 73 K10, paid in cash....but... Had to sell it for the down payment on my first home in late 74.  Then went to a cheap 69 K20 manual steering/brakes which was awful to drive, but dirt cheap.  Then came a 73 K20, and finally a 79 GMC loaded K20. These trucks were my primary driver, as well as carrying a slide-in camper to camp right on the ocean beaches!  In 94/95, I was tried of fighting the silly smog idle testing each year, and the excessive cost of truck license plates fees which were very high by the GVW pricing structure.  That made me go looking for a truck that would qualify for antique plates that were cheap, and would be smog exempt.   Took the drivetrain from the 79 and installed into the 66.  Never a regret since then.

 

I must admit that even though I don't really feel that his 83 is an "antique vehicle", I do enjoy working on it after having some like it back then...nostalgia?  It is a fun project for me, due to the no rust-low mile condition.  We have lots of storage space, so it will never see rain or salt...thank goodness..

 

I'm draining the 20 year old gas from the second auxillary side tank today...I was so shocked that both the tanks are like new inside.  I saw a youtube video of two old trucks with old gas.  One was parked for 25 years and had a mint tank insides, the other sat only 10 years and the tank and sender was rotted beyond belief.  The owner said it was the ethanol gas that wrecked it, and the 25 year old gas was non methanol(water) based.  He was right. apparently  

.

[Pomeroy41144]

I love 1950s cars.  Hoping there will be a 1956 Buick hardtop in my future.

[gossp]

I think that a few of the thoughts expressed so far are correct and do not contradict each other at all.

 

It is true, that there will be a market following for vehicles from the youth of the people that now have money to spend on a collector or "extra" vehicle (or ten).

 

It is also true that vehicles of the 50's possess a special styling that will always be collectible and have an appeal of people outside the "I wanted one of these when I was young" group.

 

Another thing to consider, the economic scene we are in is making the 1 or 2 old car collector more rare and I think they were half of the market a few years ago. The high end cars still have high end collectors. The market for lower end anything has gotten pretty weak, or started chasing after even more low end cars. I'm the only guy I know if that only has one antique car, and it was built 70 years before my birth. Keeping it is a constant financial struggle and topic of conversation with the wife.

 

Those three things considered: The prices on 50's cars needed to take a bit of a dive but the market is not going to go away.

 

Tri 5 Chevys were collectible long before the first thoughts market came into its money and will hold on a little past them getting out of the market. The cars are special, not exactly my thing, but special. While prices were really high an aftermarket developed that makes them affordable to own and maintain, which will assist in keeping them an above average place in the market.

 

When I talk to people interested in getting an old car, I always steer them towards one of 4 groups of cars: tri 5 chevys, 60's Mustangs, Model A Fords, or Model T Fords.... because it is really easy to keep any of them on the road. Because of this, I think they will always have at least a small premium on the market.

[padgett]

F&J mentioned something that is worth thinking about and that is that designing an engine for low rpm cruising has had a major effect on longevity. In the fifties, two speed automatics were common, were a few three speeds, and only one 4 speed (Hydramatic but first was so low not to count). No "lockups". As late as 1972, a 3.08 was an "economy" axle option (3.23 was standard with AC) and tires were short 14s. 3,000 rpm at 70 was common.

 

In 1983, the "automatic over drive" was a new thing and as automakers strove to meet the 25mpg "fleet average" long gears and dead cams became common. In the daze of single cams and iron engines horsepower was a necessary sacrifice. Under 2k rpm at 70 became common and torque peaks were near the same.

 

Today we have 8 and 9 speed transmissions which seems odd since we also have very broad torque curves (my jeep has 90% of peak from 1800 to 6400 rpm).

 

However the bottom line is that modern engines have much better machining, superior lubricants, better rust resistance, and run at much lower RPMs than the cars of the 50s and 60s. No wonder expected vehicle life is so much longer today.

[victorialynn2]

5 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

So if you really want a 1970's car, don't hesitate

to get one!  My 1978 Lincoln Mark V has a

ride that is more relaxing and more comfortable

than that of any modern car I know.

 

I agree. The '79 Lincoln Town Car has the best ride of any care I have ever been in. 

[60FlatTop]

A well maintained car has about a 30 to 40 year lifespan before a major (costly) repair is needed. That is pretty much and engine rebuild, paint/body, complete suspension, or combination of these. On most cars all things wear out equally.

Check with a few of the older hobbyists you associate with, ones in the hobby 30, 40, or 50 years. How long have they owned their cars? I bet most were purchased when they were about 20 years old and well maintained at the time, good cars at the bottom of their transportation depreciation cycle. The completed restorations are not common overall. And the newer the car the less likely they are restored. At 50 years old, 1967 cars, you don't see the major money going into the cars.

The perception of lots of restorations is based on exceptions. AACA had 50,000 member in 1985. If that represented 10% of the hobby the would be 500,000 collector cars owners out there, many with multiple cars. If you saw 1,000 restored cars that would be a small percentage of the total number of old cars in the hands of hobbyists. 50,000 would be 10% of the minimal figure.

 

I think what you are seeing is aging cars needing major work in the hands of aging owners whom didn't spend much to begin with. The 50 or 60 year old car needing $6,000 to $8,000 of deferred work just to keep driving sits idle while an owner picks up a clean 15 to 20 year old car for $3,000 to $4,000 and goes off to the cruise night. The cars are out there and the hobby has always been adaptable to the owner's budget.

[junkyardjeff]

For those who think 50s cars handle bad my 53 Olds with a worn out front suspension was much better then my 37 Chevy p/u that has been rebuilt,after it was rebuilt it handled great and cruised it at 70 to 80 on the highway. I also have a 55 Ford convertible that handles great and it also goes down the highway at 75 and 80 with ease,I now add power brakes to every old car I get as I want to stop since were are playing on the same roads with cars with 4 wheel disc brakes that are much lighter. I love the 50s cars since they were still the majority on the road when I was old enough to see out the windows back in the early 60s and would like to see the prices go down so I could afford more of them.

[padgett]

Have fond memories of a 61 Caddy 'vert sideways on a bridge after the power brakes started fading during one stop from speed. (Of course have faded/boiled disks before...)

[60FlatTop]

Sometime around 1960, when I first got interested in cars I read an article about training chauffeurs. It said they had to be able to drive a car with a full glass of water sitting on the dash without spilling any. I always remember that and it has been my personal driving style unless I feel like getting out there and really being a yahoo with my car.

 

My Wife is very used to a smooth ride. Maybe 15 years ago we went out to dinner with a friend in his late model Rolls-Royce. He is a little froggie with the gas and the brake. When we got home my Wife said "Gee, your Buicks are a lot smoother that a Rolls-Royce." Yeah, aain't that the truth.

 

I hear the stories and can't keep the images back.