Pierce-Arrow: year & model?

[Dosmo]

I was noticing the unusual window treatment, i.e., slanted side window frames.  A striking looking car - wondering if anyone might have some specific info, like model number, is this a coach built model, etc.

 

As usual, all responses appreciated.

[alsancle]

It is a special carson top.

[F&J]

To add;

 

These are "all weather" tops that were used on open touring cars, and in rarer cases, roadsters also.  Also sometimes referred to as a "California Top"

 

They did "bolt on" but were not really meant to be removed for summer.  They had glass side windows framed in wood, that would be removed in summer, but they also had side curtains for those rainy days in summer. These curtains were tucked into a hidden compartment above the front seats, when not needed.

 

The most often seen brand was "Rex".  I have never seen a top with that slanted look before.

 

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[keiser31]

Looks to be about a 1926 PA....

[Grimy]

MARVELOUS photos, Dosmo!

 

I agree with F&J that it's a removable winter top (aftermarket), AKA California Top.  Likewise, I've never seen one with slanted windows.

 

The car is a Series 33, built 1922-26, but lacks front brakes which arrived mid-1924.

[F&J]

I'm a bit happy to see that some other people here know (or care to know) about this somewhat rare automobile invention. 

 

When I owned two Rex tops, one on a touring, and one very large roadster top found in a barn, I tried to find more info but never got very far.  I would think that these tops were only marketed for 5 to 8 years?  Their demise would be when "all" car companies were finally tooled up for true closed cars, perhaps around 1923 or so?  I never found dates of introduction, or when they ceased production.

 

Anyways, I also never saw any interest on websites for these tops.  But if you got the chance to really look at all the details and craftsmanship, you would wonder why there seems to be no interest.  Mine both had amazing quality woodwork structures, "top shelf" castings on brackets, beautiful striped, expensive looking full headliners, dome lights, etc.

 

they must have been quite expensive.

 

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[Grimy]

+1, F&J.  Somewhere I saw a statistic along the lines of this:  In 1920, 90% of all US cars were open; by 1929, 90% were closed.

[nzcarnerd]

I think it was a combination of improving body building techniques, lowering costs and market demands.  The 'rot' started with Essex in 1924 introducing their coach for the same price as a touring, whereas for most makes at that time the sedan price was much more that the touring price

[F&J]

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38 minutes ago, Grimy said:

  Somewhere I saw a statistic along the lines of this:  In 1920, 90% of all US cars were open; by 1929, 90% were closed.

I live in a "cold winters" area, and I always wondered about vintage pics of open cars, even with curtains, driving in winter.  I can't imagine that ordeal of cold, drafts, etc, ..but these people grew up with open horse buggy's..

 

It must have seemed like a huge step in comfort to get a ride in a closed car back then, and maybe they wondered why it took 2+ decades of car advancement, to be so comfy.

 

 

 

I hope this Shorpy link is viewable: 

http://www.shorpy.com/node/21435

 

If it works, click on "full size image" as it is huge and you can see the impressive construction and details.  The wood is cased in black leatherette, including the windshield modifications.  Sliding glass on rear doors, but center removable piece is missing that had the glass for the front doors. 

 

It says: San Francisco circa 1920. "Studebaker Special Six touring car at Mona Lisa apartments." Fitted with yet another variation on the "California top."

 

  Interesting that it is much warmer there, (S.F.)California, but I suppose it gets chilly/damp there.

 

 

 

I forgot to mention that my 1920 Rex topped car, had an automatic dome light, with a Rex-installed pushbutton door jamb switch.  I thought that was pretty advanced.

 

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[Grimy]

Great photo, F&J.  Those glass negative photos have such incredibly great resolution!

 

Yes, those California tops had to be expensive, but likely less so than the cost of a closed car vs. an open car.  My 1922 Paige 6-66 (131" wb) 4-passenger sport phaeton listed for $2245 but the 5-passenger sedan was $3195, a $950 (42.3%) premium, and the 7-p limo was $3350.  And to show the cost differential between open and closed bodies, the 1918 Pierce 48 dual valve chassis (only) was $5200, with a 5-pass touring body $6400, and with a fully enclosed sedan $8000.

 

Have only seen photos of Rex tops, but agree that they were the top of the line.

[Grimy]

While doing a last-minute clean up for company, I just laid hands on a decrepit (won't scan well) Automotive Section of the Oakland (CA) Tribune dated November 16, 1924.  Following is excerpted from an article:

 

"As a matter of fact, all the dealers in Oakland [ed.: a temperate area, never below freezing although sometimes like today close to it] are having difficulty in selling open cars. You may have noticed that practically every touring car can be fitted with a glass enclosure now, and the majority of them are sold that way. This gives the buyer an enclosed car at small additional cost.

 

"Closed cars in demand. Practically every dealer has unfilled orders for enclosed models. The factories can't build closed cars fast enough."

 

So what happened to all these California tops????  I suspect that their plate (non-safety) glass had something to do with it.

[parrts]

I found and bought a 1924 Dodge touring with a California top in my home town. That was circa 1960 and I did the only sensible thing as a 16 year-old, took the darned thing off so I had an open car to drive around. I still have b/w photos of it including showing it at the Illinois State Fair Antique Car Show, top off, of course.

[hwellens]

Here is an Ad

 

[oldcarfudd]

Can a Rex-topped car be entered in AACA judging without a massive point deduction?  It wouldn't have come from the factory that way.

[trimacar]

The AACA judging guideline is how the car would have, or could have,  been delivered from a dealer, so if this is a dealer added accessory, it would not generate an automatic point deduction just for being there...that's my interpretation, but a qualified judge will surely chime in....

[wayne sheldon]

No discussion of the so-called California top would be complete without at least a mention that while most of them were advertised and sold after-market, and to a wide variety of sizes and marques of cars, Studebaker took the idea mainstream with what they called their Duplex phaeton or roadster in '25 and '26.  Offered on all three model/chassis sizes, manufactured in the Studebaker factory alongside all the other standard body offerings. The cars were also pictured in Studebaker's sales literature.

The basic idea showed up much earlier, even before 1910, offered for small runabouts as a coupe conversion. I have seen a few photos of one on a Ford model R (I think?). Early last year, (offered on eBad) there was a nice 1915 model T touring car with a neat after-market top and side windows on it. I wish I had the money, I would love to have gotten that one.

They went by many names, and manufactured and sold by many different small companies. I am not sure why "California Top" became the common catch-all name. Most original advertising did not call them that. Fixed tops with removable side windows ranged from cheap, to very nicely made, and usually were manufactured and sold regionally. A good friend of mine has a 1916 Pierce Arrow with a California top, very nicely built. I don't know who made that one, guess I will have to call and ask. It is a very nice mostly original car. I have ridden in it a few times. Great car!