A Vega curiosity

[padgett]

Why not, you just did ? The "melting pot" idea is a flow of information and thoughts, not a rigid concept. (true, pot metal is often deeply flawed but so are we). Besides the Vega was not a bad car, more it was a victim of the times. When it was designed, before the second wave of emissions/economy, cars were tuned to run well and not to clean the air nor maximize mpg. Keep it cool and there was no problem (besides rust which was a design issue resulting from attempts to reduce weight and before modern metal treating. Besides before that ALL cars exposed to salt spray had rust issues. In fact I remember MOPARs had a much worse issue with wagon tailgates rusting on the dealer lots on the east coast of Florida back in the 60s.

 

And then there was the Pinto issue celebrated in movies (Top Secret, 1984 AFAIR). Economy cars were not expected to last more than a few years.

 

Having had five or six (I forget) H-bodies over the years, mostly four-speeds with AC, can say they were a very comfortable package that even had some success in SCCA Showroom Stock racing (though the Opels were faster) and I had to replace one head gasket but that was the extent of my engine problems. In fact they had the only device recognized by the FEA to save gasoline - at WOT the AC disengaged.

 

Also, like many ideas that GM engineers are occasionally allowed to produce, the Cosworth-Vega was an attempt at a European package for Americans that had some unique features (the passive EGR for instance). It was a neat car for the time but at over 20 lb/hp was not really that fast, a good Corvair Corsa could beat one on a road course.

 

Tie-ins:

- Cosworth-Vega engine was built in a clean room at Tonawanda designed for the 69 ZL1

- LQ1 was also a DOHC Pentroof 4 valve design based on a stock Chevrolet engine, with a timing belt and 7,000 rpm redline (C-V was designed for 7k then pulled back. Both had higher design HP that was dialed back for production, both are undersquare engines - stock Vega was oversquare)

[bobg1951chevy]

On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2016 at 4:14 PM, John348 said:

 No Bob, two words were left out as well as build them right they should fix them RIGHT. 

I have some interesting GM paperwork that I have to find about the selling and servicing of the Cosworth's. They were not your common Vega that's for sure and they are a BLAST to drive!  If you ever get a chance to take a ride in one jump at it. Most of my friends when they get out of mine, and the first thing they do is chuckle and all followed with "I would have never guessed it!" Problem was that they used a $3500 drive train on a $2000 car, they needed to upgrade the car in many areas and they did not.   

A couple of comments here, John.

I will say the Cosworth is fun to drive.

I  did  work  for  GM,  a total of 35 years, at retail level with dealers, and wholesale level, with GM Corporate.

Cosworth was priced close to the Corvette, back then, within  $1,000 of the Corvette, as I recall.

Today the value of the Cosworth  is 1/2 to 1/3 of the Corvette value.

The title of this thread "A Vega Curiosity" tells me the thread belongs to Vega's.

[John348]

2 hours ago, bobg1951chevy said:

A couple of comments here, John.

I will say the Cosworth is fun to drive.

I  did  work  for  GM,  a total of 35 years, at retail level with dealers, and wholesale level, with GM Corporate.

Cosworth was priced close to the Corvette, back then, within  $1,000 of the Corvette, as I recall.

Today the value of the Cosworth  is 1/2 to 1/3 of the Corvette value.

The title of this thread "A Vega Curiosity" tells me the thread belongs to Vega's.

Hey Bob,

Hope your New Years Eve is going well. I think the Cosworths might have been closer in price to the Corvettes then $1000, and they were almost $1000 more then the Camaro. The bill of Sale on the one I own was $5460. That was sold at Green Chevrolet in Monteicello NY. I bought the car from the original owners son about 6 years ago,and it was off the road since 1984. The son told me that his father was disgusted that he never could not get it to run right. He kept every bill and piece of paperwork. He has some paperwork from Hutton Engineering with notes jotted down on it for the weber carburetor set-up. He told me his Dad just could not bring himself to spend that kind of money on the car.  He told me his dad had been anticipating this car since it was announced and In February of 74 he told the dealer he had to have one and the dealer told him he had to have a $1000 deposit. Now looking at the bill of sale he took delivery on 8/5/76 as a new car. I don't know why he took delivery in 1976 (late 76 at that) for a new 1975. I did not pick that up until a year or so ago. I have some really great paperwork on these cars,, as a guy on the retail end you enjoy it!!! 

I think compared to the 75/76 Corvettes the Cosworths might be a little stronger the 1/2 to 1/3 of then the value you placed them at. Then again those year Corvettes nobody is really knocking the doors down for either. You would think should command more just based on the rarity and limited production

I agree 100% with you my friend that the thread belongs to Vegas, and was trying to remind someone keep it on topic when I noticed it starting to veer. Just to give you a heads up, Vega;s Monza's (and the other GM nameplates used on those bodies) are considered pretty much all the same car by those who own them,and all lumped into one category known as H bodies. I was guilty of mentioning Monza's earlier in this thread on VEGA'S. There are not a lot of H body owners, there are not many H body cars.I did refer to them as H bodies in an earlier post sorry about that did not mean to confuse anyone.

Have a good night Bob... and a great New Year

 

 

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by John348 (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

1 hour ago, John348 said:

Hey Bob,

Hope your New Years Eve is going well. I think the Cosworths might have been closer in price to the Corvettes then $1000, and they were almost $1000 more then the Camaro. The bill of Sale on the one I own was $5460. That was sold at Green Chevrolet in Monteicello NY. I bought the car from the original owners son about 6 years ago,and it was off the road since 1984. The son told me that his father was disgusted that he never could not get it to run right. He kept every bill and piece of paperwork. He has some paperwork from Hutton Engineering with notes jotted down on it for the weber carburetor set-up. He told me his Dad just could not bring himself to spend that kind of money on the car.  He told me his dad had been anticipating this car since it was announced and In February of 74 he told the dealer he had to have one and the dealer told him he had to have a $1000 deposit. Now looking at the bill of sale he took delivery on 8/5/76 as a new car. I don't know why he took delivery in 1976 (late 76 at that) for a new 1975. I did not pick that up until a year or so ago. I have some really great paperwork on these cars,, as a guy on the retail end you enjoy it!!! 

I think compared to the 75/76 Corvettes the Cosworths might be a little stronger the 1/2 to 1/3 of then the value you placed them at. Then again those year Corvettes nobody is really knocking the doors down for either. You would think should command more just based on the rarity and limited production

I agree 100% with you my friend that the thread belongs to Vegas, and was trying to remind someone keep it on topic when I noticed it starting to veer. Just to give you a heads up, Vega;s Monza's (and the other GM nameplates used on those bodies) are considered pretty much all the same car by those who own them,and all lumped into one category known as H bodies. I was guilty of mentioning Monza's earlier in this thread on VEGA'S. There are not a lot of H body owners, there are not many H body cars.I did refer to them as H bodies in an earlier post sorry about that did not mean to confuse anyone.

Have a good night Bob... and a great New Year

 

 

 

John,

So good to have sales and build documentation, from  "birth".

Black in / out has to look so good.

20 miles on clock, when she was sold new.

That indicates several road tests to test "g forces".

I see Robert Green Chevrolet is still in business in Monticello.

Happy New Year !

 

Edited January 1, 2017 by bobg1951chevy (see edit history)

[John348]

Good Morning Bob!

I was looking for this piece of sales literature last night, When you mentioned that you were involved in sales I knew I had to find this to share with you (and others who might find it interesting also) I remembered reading this but I could not remember what piece it was printed in.

I have no doubt what you mentioned about the service tools having to be purchased was rather costly, now I wonder what dealer footed the bill for this Chevrolet service van to "be your own personal pit crew" as the brochure states. How far was the range they had to cover? There were 48 service vans in the entire country (supposedly) I have to do more digging but know I have some paperwork with a phone number to call, that might have more information. I am pretty sure that Tesla has same roving service van concept. The Kid down the street is a tech for them and has a service area and a van. I try to speak to him before he heads back to California he came back to his parents for the holiday's It was printed in the basic sales brochure, considered the common piee for these cars. I put the cover and page 2 of it where the personal pit crew is mentioned. When my son stops by later I need him to show me how to  clip and zoom in on the circled area so it is easier to read

Have a Happy New Year

(Now I have to go out back and have a cigar........... that I quit smoking yesterday )

Edited January 1, 2017 by John348 (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

The "service van" concept was in effect, a few years BEFORE the Cosworth came into existence.

Back then, the van was manned by an individual hired by GM, an individual who had (1) mechanical background, (2) G.M.I. training or graduate of G.M.I. ( G.M.I. = General Motors Institute, now Kettering College) and (3) either a current A.S.M. or a G.M. plan to promote to an A.S.M. (Area Service Manager).

The van was a mobile assistance tool for problem vehicles in a service dept., or the van provided new information or training on a new phase of repairs.

The service van was based in "zones", meaning "Cleveland zone" had a van, "Pittsburgh zone" had a van, "Cincinnati zone" had a van, "Buffalo zone" had a van, etc.

Being that "zone office territories" could cross state lines, so did the service van.

The Cosworth ad says 48 vans, I understand the vans COVERED 48 states, but 48 vans ? Don't believe that to be accurate.

My career BEGAN in sales, but the majority of time was in service, both retail, then at the wholesale side (GM Corporate).

[Larry Schramm]

From what I know,  the vans were there to help the dealer technicians repair the vehicle, not fix them themselves.  They had direct access to the resources to figure out what was wrong with the vehicle. Buick had a similar concept in the late 80's and called them Service Engineers.

 

I think GM still has some remnants of that resource.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[bobg1951chevy]

49 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

From what I know,  the vans were there to help the dealer technicians repair the vehicle, not fix them themselves.  They had direct access to the resources to figure out what was wrong with the vehicle. Buick had a similar concept in the late 80's and called them Service Engineers.

 

I think GM still has some remnants of that resource.

"From what I know,  the vans were there to help the dealer technicians repair the vehicle, not fix them themselves."

I believe that is what I stated.

"The van was a mobile assistance tool for problem vehicles in a service dept., or the van provided new information or training on a new phase of repairs."

Edited January 2, 2017 by bobg1951chevy (see edit history)

[mike6024]

20 hours ago, John348 said:

The son told me that his father was disgusted that he never could not get it to run right. He kept every bill and piece of paperwork. He has some paperwork from Hutton Engineering with notes jotted down on it for the weber carburetor set-up. He told me his Dad just could not bring himself to spend that kind of money on the car.

Did it come new from the dealer with the webers? I see the sales brochure shows fuel injection.

[John348]

 

No Mike, the Weber set up was done by an outside company Hutton Engineering at the time it was a cure for the problematic Bendix EFI. As you can see from the flyer I attached from Hutton it was rather pricey . I do like their selling point they boast about "350 CV owners have chosen to switch rather than fight" When I purchased my Cosworth it ran, but idled at around 2,800 RPM, but it ran, no rod knocks, no cracked block, and it did not miss. Realizing it did not need a rebuild, I figured to myself "how bad can it be" After a lot of money and time I was able to resolve the idling problem, started driving only to encounter the next problem. It would not re-start after driving it, then it would would start up sometimes after three hours sometimes after three days. I recall back in the 70's my Father had a Volkswagon Squareback, which had basically the same Bendix 'K-tronic' fuel injection, and it never really was corrected when he traded it in a year later.  

 

I had taken the car at my house in Florida to do some work on it where I needed my lift, I had bought some parts from a guy in St Pete. i went to his home to pick them up and he was showing me his CV and his car had the Weber's on it, and explained to me other then removing the engine and installing a V-8 Buick V-6 that the Webers were the only cure. I ended up buying some more parts from him and this time he delivered them to me while i was at the AACA Meet in Lakeland, at that time he had told me that he sold his CV. The next day he called me and to tell me that the guy who bought the car was putting the EFI back in was going to put the Webers on Ebay. He gave me the guys number we made a deal, I picked everything up the next day, installed it and my car has not missed a beat since! It was the best decision I ever made, and I am a purist and really never modify anything in any of my cars. Three weeks later the guy who sold me the set-up wanted to know if I wanted to sell it back to him.

I was told out of the 3508 Cosworths made about 1000 cars survived and out of that I do not know how many are running or how many have the Webers.  

 

Scan0004.pdf

[padgett]

Thought the K-Jetronic was Bosch and a mechanical system. Did they license to/from Bendix ? Know Chrysler used the Bendix electrojector in the late 50s but didn't think it survived the 60s.

[John348]

2 hours ago, padgett said:

Thought the K-Jetronic was Bosch and a mechanical system. Did they license to/from Bendix ? Know Chrysler used the Bendix electrojector in the late 50s but didn't think it survived the 60s.

 

Good question, when I was intent to get it working correctly I was told it was by several others that the system was basically a Bendix K-tronic system that was used on VW's and other european made cars at that time. I was told K TRONIC not JETTRONIC, except that GM had different wiring connections on the CV's again that was what I was told. The computer has the Bendix logo is part of the casting on the computer, as far as the deal Bendix I don't know the arrangement with Bendix and and don't even ever recall reading anything about it. I have a spare computer around if I can remember I will take a photo of it and post it.  The one that controlled my car is still up over the glove box, the complete system is in a box sitting on a shelf that will go with the car if I decide to part company with the car or I told my sons if I were to pass give the box to the new owner. There was a guy who sells re-indexed cam gears. Which i had installed whne I was still running the injection, it really woke it up more, but the injection system was still undependable. I had to put the original cam gears back with the swing over to the webers..    

Once I installed the Weber's i never looked back. 

[joe_padavano]

3 hours ago, padgett said:

Thought the K-Jetronic was Bosch and a mechanical system. Did they license to/from Bendix ? Know Chrysler used the Bendix electrojector in the late 50s but didn't think it survived the 60s.

 

The Bendix (not Bosch) system used on the Cosworth Vega was a speed-density analog system similar to the one used on the Olds 350 in the 1975 Seville.  It was neither "Jetronic" or "electrojector".

[padgett]

"This was early days for fuel injection"

Not really, GM had production FI in 1957 and I had a much modified 63 system on my 'vette. Merc had FI even earlier (300SL) and that is just production systems. US also had the Hilborn and the Tecalemit-Jackson. Was very well known in the automotive industry by the 70s. Just didn't have inexpensive computers.

[John348]

15 minutes ago, joe_padavano said:

 

The Bendix (not Bosch) system used on the Cosworth Vega was a speed-density analog system similar to the one used on the Olds 350 in the 1975 Seville.  It was neither "Jetronic" or "electrojector".

 

Thanks Joe for clearing that up up, My fault I should have mentioned earlier I was "told" that it was similar. One thing I do know is that the system was a bad design! I was happy to wash my hands of that system! If I did not find the weber's I told my wife I am going to take a loss and get it out of my life. It was like having a pet dog that would wag his tail then bite you, then be  real nice, fool you again and snap for no reason. I hate to admit it but that system beat me, beat me up bad....The Caddy fuel filter is compatible and about $100 cheaper and easier to find then the one on the CV. I think that a large part of the problem was that the wiring for the sensors was not weather tight.

 

9 minutes ago, mike6024 said:

I have never seen a Bendix fuel injection system. I have a Bosch K-Jet and it has no Electronic Computer Control as shown in the diagram above. It's mechanical with a fuel distributor controlled by a lever that moves according to air flow. This was early days for fuel injection so I suppose it is not surprising there were problems. Sounds embarrassing for GM, so bad they should have done a recall and carburetor conversion on all of them. 

 

Yes Mike one would think that GM would have, considering that these cars were rather expensive and sales were targeted to automotive enthusiasts. The Cosworth Vega Owners Association (COVA) was started when these cars were rather new and when I purchased mine I was given all of the newsletters that the owner had. From reading through them you can feel a sense of abandonment from the owners towards GM, how certain parts were becoming unavailable from GM as the cars were getting near 5 years old. I was surprised to find that there are still a lot of original owners out there who still  are active with their CV's. This year they are holding their annual convention at GM Carlisle, and I am planning on attending with my car

 

35 minutes ago, padgett said:

"This was early days for fuel injection"

Not really, GM had production FI in 1957 and I had a much modified 63 system on my 'vette. Merc had FI even earlier (300SL) and that is just production systems. US also had the Hilborn and the Tecalemit-Jackson. Was very well known in the automotive industry by the 70s. Just didn't have inexpensive computers.

  

Hey Mr P,  Very true there were earlier attempts at fuel injection, however I think it would be a safe assumption that everyone here knows about the Rochester Mechanical Fuel Injection that GM introduced on Chevrolet's and Pontiac's in 1957.I guess statement should be corrected to eliminate any confusion as you had pointed out with your statement "This was the early days of electronic fuel injection" 

 

 

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, mike6024 said:

I have never seen a Bendix fuel injection system. I have a Bosch K-Jet and it has no Electronic Computer Control as shown in the diagram above. It's mechanical with a fuel distributor controlled by a lever that moves according to air flow. This was early days for fuel injection so I suppose it is not surprising there were problems. Sounds embarrassing for GM, so bad they should have done a recall and carburetor conversion on all of them. 

 

I have no idea what car you are talking about, but both the Cosworth Vega and the first gen Sevilles (along with some Eldos) came with Bendix-sourced ELECTRONIC fuel injection. These were analog computer units and did not use an O2 sensor, so they ran in open loop mode all the time.  They were speed-density systems that calculated mass air flow from RPM and MAP sensor.  Here's an article by Hemmings with more info.

 

"...with the Seville's smaller-is-better mandate, the division instead used all-iron, Oldsmobile-built, 350-cu.in. V-8s with one significant alteration: Cadillac mandated a new Bendix-designed electronic fuel-injection unit atop a custom intake manifold, making the Seville the first V-8-powered American car designed with standard EFI."

[joe_padavano]

I'll add that I didn't realize until I just read it that Bosch actually licensed the EFI technology from Bendix after the 1950s Chrysler effort.

[joe_padavano]

1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

 I think that a large part of the problem was that the wiring for the sensors was not weather tight.

 

 

This is unfortunately the cause of a lot of problems in GM's early computer-controlled cars.  It wasn't until the advent of the environmentally-sealed Weatherpak connectors that GM fixed this.  I have a number of 1980s-vintage Oldsmobiles with the CCC system and the unsealed Packard 56 style connectors are a big problem.  Small voltage drops due to dirty or corroded terminals weren't much of a problem on a 12V system, but these computers typically run on 0-5 volt differentials, so a small resistance can make a big difference in the measured voltage and thus performance.

[bobg1951chevy]

I spent some time this afternoon, looking online for Cosworths that are for sale.

Pricing, for the most part, is cheap enough.

Can't help but wonder though, as to the cans of worms that may exist,  under each hood.

I wouldn't know John 348 if he knocked on my door, but do know from his V.C.C.A. posts, that he's a guy who will see things through, as in the case with his own CV and the Weber Conversion.

Just wonder .... did the owners of the CV's for sale,  do the same homework ?

 

It was always difficult to understand the thinking of my alma mater, GM.

"If Engineering could design it, then the technician should be able to fix it".

Did we forget about the formal education, between these two individuals ?

Engineering, both here and abroad, came up with ideas, ideas that ultimately hatched, then ended up  into the  production phase.

These ideas that ended into production were then adopted by a new caretaker, the flat rate technician.

The flat rate technician then went to the GM Training  Center, sat in class, listened to his GM Training Instructor, who had his own "spin" on the product,   then the flat rate technician put his own "spin"  into the mix, by making the repairs "their way", in the field.

Something was then lost, from the original "intent" of the product, to the final "fix".

 

Point is, was the newly engineered product that bad ?

OR, was the attempt to "fix" that product, really that bad ?

OR both ?

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2017 by bobg1951chevy (see edit history)

[Rusty_OToole]

I remember looking at Vegas on a Chev dealer's lot in 1976 and every one was over $5000. I almost passed out, I was used to thinking of them as a $1999 car as they were advertised when first introduced. They were all loaded with options and the dealer was taking maximum advantage of the demand for small cars. If you brought in a 2 year old, full size car they might offer you $1000 as a trade in AND people were GOING for these deals. That is how much demand there was for small cars.

 

The same day I looked around the lot, and found a brand new, stripped full size Biscayne sedan for only $200 more than a Vega.

 

This is when the Japanese first killed Detroit, by offering good small cars without the ripoff pricing. A lot of people were looking for small cars and ended up with a Toyota, Datsun or Mazda  after looking at Vegas and  Pintos because they were a better deal, and the dealers were nicer to deal with.

 

Even Renault  Peugeot and Austin did good business back then. People would buy anything if it was small and promised good mileage.

[padgett]

Mentioned before but the other thing that boosted demand for the smaller cars was the double nickel. At 70, the bulk of the imported small cars available in 73 were straining and buzzing. And that was if they could even maintain a 70 mph cruise, both the HMMWV and the Merc 240D topped out about there. At 55 nearly all cars were comfortable to drive (well not sure about the Subaru 360).

[John348]

3 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

I remember looking at Vegas on a Chev dealer's lot in 1976 and every one was over $5000. I almost passed out, I was used to thinking of them as a $1999 car as they were advertised when first introduced. They were all loaded with options and the dealer was taking maximum advantage of the demand for small cars. If you brought in a 2 year old, full size car they might offer you $1000 as a trade in AND people were GOING for these deals. That is how much demand there was for small cars.

 

The same day I looked around the lot, and found a brand new, stripped full size Biscayne sedan for only $200 more than a Vega.

 

This is when the Japanese first killed Detroit, by offering good small cars without the ripoff pricing. A lot of people were looking for small cars and ended up with a Toyota, Datsun or Mazda  after looking at Vegas and  Pintos because they were a better deal, and the dealers were nicer to deal with.

 

Even Renault  Peugeot and Austin did good business back then. People would buy anything if it was small and promised good mileage.

 

Hey Rusty,

Like you said they were loaded up, I could see why you almost feel over. I guess when you put in A/C automatic AM/FM Rear Seat Speaker/ Rear window defogger you can add an easy $1500 or more

We always heard how bad the Vega's were and "how good" the imports, funny you don't see any of them at all, no survivors

Edited January 5, 2017 by John348 (see edit history)

[lump]

I believe a car's reputation can often be more powerful than any "facts" about that car.

 

• I was a service manager in an auto repair shop in the mid 1970's, when Vegas started coming in with bad engine blocks. LOTS of them, ...eventually virtually all of them.
• We specialized in front end alignment, we sent away quite a few Vega customers when our alignment equipment showed that their front crossmembers had sagged...whether from weight, abuse, etc, I don't know. But we did see it on about 1/4 of the Vegas which came in our doors, as the cars got older. 
• And as the cars aged here in Ohio, the rust became obvious, and seemingly unavoidable. Soon cars were being junked for reasons of rust-out alone. 

Technicians and anyone who talked about cars from time to time would instantly cringe when someone mentioned a Vega. So, regardless of any merits the car may have had, the resale value of these cars went through the floor. Thus, it wasn't worth it to invest repair money into Vegas. By the early 80's it became very rare to see a Vega on the road here. I still recall a trip I made to California in the 1980's, to visit the editors and publishers of several car magazines that I did business with. I was astonished to see some Vegas (and some Pintos) still on the road out there, because by then we had NONE on the road back home. They had all rusted away...

[padgett]

I rented a Renault Alliance once - overheated before I left the airport. Had a lot of Hertz Pintos and never a problem or detonation, always have preferred smaller cars. Don't recall ever renting a Vega but had a few. Various things needed fixing (had a strange e-brake assembly) but never a rust issue.

[Rusty_OToole]

From working in garages in the 80s I can tell you the Japanese cars earned an excellent reputation for reliability and long life. Vega, Chevette, and GM not so much. Pinto Omni and Horizon were pretty good. Chrysler had head gasket problems in the heavier K cars and especially the first minivans.

 

Some Vegas racked up over 100,000 miles without a problem. I don't know if it was luck or good servicing. We even had a customer with a Renault Alliance that went 200,000 miles and they were the worst car in the world. He commuted 100 miles a day and had the car serviced by the book.

[D Yaros]

2 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

 Pinto Omni and Horizon were pretty good. Chrysler had head gasket problems in the heavier K cars and especially the first minivans.

My 1976 Ford Pinto had a mere 185 K on the odometer when I passed it on to the second owner.

[Guest GT52]

It's sad almost to the point of being comical that for a couple of dollars for a coolant recovery bottle a lot of the Vega engine woes would have never happened...in spite of the engine's weaknesses.  I knew of several people who ran Vegas over 100K miles with few problems, but if you ever left them overheat, even once, you were probably going to lose an engine.

 

Vegas, like probably all small cars of the era, would run hot enough when run hard in the heat to puke out a bit of coolant when you shut them off...not a big deal if you top the radiator off somewhat regularly.  Unfortunately, the other problem with Vegas was that they were a Chevrolet, and Chevrolet owners just expected they could treat them like their old Impala...don't bother checking the radiator, if they get low on coolant and overheat just wait till the steam stops flying, fill the radiator back up and be on your way.  Worked fine with an Impala, but a Vega, not so much.

 

My recollection is that the imports weren't that spectacular either.  I can remember a time when every Honda dealer had a continuous row of Civics waiting for a head gasket.  Whenever someone was bragging about how great their Honda was I would interrupt and ask if they had blown a head gasket on theirs, and the reply was always, "well yeah, but they covered it under warranty".  I will say that the import dealers tended to do a better job of smoothing customer feathers and covering things under warranty. 

[Rusty_OToole]

Vega eventually wired the ignition to the oil light sender. Run low on oil and the engine cut out. Most owners didn't know what the trouble was and junked the car. The garage or junk yard would pour in a couple of quarts of oil and it was good as new.

[padgett]

Also the stock Vega radiator was very small. I always looked for ones with AC because they got a full size radiator (heaters worked better also) & always added a coolant recovery bottle ($5 item at KMart). Is also when I started with lower temp thermostats (160F for a Vega AFAIR). GT52 is exactly right, keep it cool and the engine would last forever.

 

Was also a time when if you kept a SBC at 70 for a few hours on a hot day, the temp would just creep up to the red. Never bothered them, guess customers expected a Vega to act the same. BTW actually expecting customers to check the oil ultimately led to the '84 Fiero recall.

 

Why when I ordered the V8 Sunbird, one of the line items was $32 for "Radiator, Heavy Duty" & also received the shortest fan clutch ever seen (was standard with AC but C60 was NA with a four-speed).

 

Funny that lists of $5500 were mentioned, the 'bird sticker was $5668.60. Options filled the whole page, nothing like that today.

[John348]

1 hour ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Vega eventually wired the ignition to the oil light sender. Run low on oil and the engine cut out. Most owners didn't know what the trouble was and junked the car. The garage or junk yard would pour in a couple of quarts of oil and it was good as new.

 

Hey Rusty,

I pretty sure  it was the fuel pump being tied into the oil pressure switch, i thought that was for a different reason for life safety and not vehicle safety to kill fuel pump if the engine was shut down due to a collision with the ignition on. I just had to install one of those switches in the Cosworth when I swung over to the Webers. In the CV the fuel pumps were controlled be a relay in the ECU. Either way it would still cut the engine out.

[Larry Schramm]

9 hours ago, GT52 said:

My recollection is that the imports weren't that spectacular either.  I can remember a time when every Honda dealer had a continuous row of Civics waiting for a head gasket.  Whenever someone was bragging about how great their Honda was I would interrupt and ask if they had blown a head gasket on theirs, and the reply was always, "well yeah, but they covered it under warranty".  I will say that the import dealers tended to do a better job of smoothing customer feathers and covering things under warranty. 

 

I remember in the early 80's Toyota had problems with cylinder heads cracking.  You would go in for a tune up and get plugs, wires, points, and an new cylinder head.

 

In the late 80's Honda had a severe rust problem in the northern states where there were stories of cars going over railroad tracks and the car would crack at the front of dash.  They even had specialized service dealers to repair the rust issues on these cars. 

 

All manufacturers had their issues.  Some more discussed than others.

[John348]

10 hours ago, padgett said:

Also the stock Vega radiator was very small. I always looked for ones with AC because they got a full size radiator (heaters worked better also) & always added a coolant recovery bottle ($5 item at KMart). Is also when I started with lower temp thermostats (160F for a Vega AFAIR). GT52 is exactly right, keep it cool and the engine would last forever.

 

Was also a time when if you kept a SBC at 70 for a few hours on a hot day, the temp would just creep up to the red. Never bothered them, guess customers expected a Vega to act the same. BTW actually expecting customers to check the oil ultimately led to the '84 Fiero recall.

 

Why when I ordered the V8 Sunbird, one of the line items was $32 for "Radiator, Heavy Duty" & also received the shortest fan clutch ever seen (was standard with AC but C60 was NA with a four-speed).

 

Funny that lists of $5500 were mentioned, the 'bird sticker was $5668.60. Options filled the whole page, nothing like that today.

 

Mr P you got a pretty good price on yours here is Bill of Sale for 77 Mirage. It was from a parts car that I picked up in junkyard in Orlando about 4 years ago. Had all of the paperwork still in the glove box, but the car was shot, real rusty! This thing had A/C automatic and was almost $7700

 

[padgett]

With a Cocoa delivery Melrose probably worked at the Cape and salt spray there is terrible (could go down range for a couple of days and come back to a dark car turned white).

 

Here's mine, no expensive items like AC (had to add later since was NA with 4-speed) and automagic. AFAIR it took 6 months to get, first the posi was not available, then the gauge cluster.

 

[John348]

I guess if you add the A/C automatic and mirage package it would add another grand or more. The tops of the doors were rotted out even  sections of the roof were gone, I have some photos on my laptop I will put up of it later. It did have the tilt and I was thinking of taking just that. I had a good offer from a guy on the H body forum so it went up to Georgia. They charged her for the delivery intercept for the Mirage package but I think this was dealer kit, there was no front spoiler or indications of it even being there at one time. Many of the dealer ones I had heard did not have the front spoiler installed. 

 

[John348]

I was able to get the Hutton Brochure scanned (with the help of my son) I love how they sell the aftermarket A/C They are not joking about a "rolling black sauna"! It is the hottest car I ever owned. Having the header pipe sitting right under my feet does not help! It is so hot the key in the column will burn your finger tips (no joke!) 

[John348]

Chevrolet was trying real hard in 76 to change the image with this slogan

"BUILT TO TAKE IT"

 

[John348]

They pretty much acknowledge the prior rust issues that most everyone noticed, below are pages 1 and 2 of the brochure above

[Guest GT52]

Looking at those brochures reminds me how much I like/liked the styling of the Vega.  I never owned one, but for me they were best of breed styling-wise, and set the standard for small car styling going forward.  Every other small car from the era that I can think of looks dated and fairly ridiculous in today's world...but IMO that Vega still looks good.  And, the V8 conversions were, and are, just way too cool.

[John348]

I agree the V-8 conversions were real cool, and were rather common thinking of it now. Here is a cover fro an old Peterson Book on Vega's to bring back some more memories. i really liked it when the hot rod guys split the bumpers on the early Vega's, they looked like miniature Camaro's. 

[padgett]

Most famous one in my memory was "Grumpy's Toy" a Vega built by Grumpy Jenkins. Always liked the pre-74 nose better. Had at least two 73 GT 4-speeds (I forget...) before my Sunbird. Only early aero nose I liked was the Astre (but was deep into Pontiacs then)..