Inquiring minds may want (or not want) to know

[Amphicar BUYER]

When I was the webmaster / President and Treasurer for the International Amphicar Owners Club (www.amphicar.com) I initiated a "members only" section with some pages that had members roster, technical information available only there, the newsletter (where the members only password was found) and some other interesting info in an effort to encourage membership. I can tell you that membership was at an all time high. I don't know where it is at the moment, but I can say that when I was on the board we had 63 Amphicars at the club meet in Ohio, last meet had <20, the forums used to be a hopping place, now it's very slow and random. So it is important to offer all the perks you can within reason of course. The forums are a great free-bee to get folks in and then offer something besides just a newsletter to keep them. I don't know if they still do it, but we had a small give away ea year at Xmas time. I personally made 350 polished aluminum bilge pump spouts. Ea member got one. There was a nice tree ornament, custom trans dipstick, "Amphicar" flag among others. Exciting times.

[Xander Wildeisen]

I am not trying to take anything down a path. Do not lose sight that some of the best cars ever built out of the classic era were built by "custom" coach builders. My job is building and restoring cars. If I post pictures of a custom car that I am working on. I would think that if a person was wanting to have a car restored, they would look at the pictures of cars being cut in half , stretched and customized. And they might think, that guy would be able to fix my fenders. I have gone back to Hershey twice, It was awesome to see the show field full of original cars. (breath of fresh air from the street rods) I wonder what would happen if the AACA rented a booth at SEMA, and stuffed it with high end full senior classics? My guess is you might start to see more interest in the restored side of the classics. What if concourse shows were advertise on the street rod side as well? I bet your show would have more people there. A lot of the younger people have no idea, and have never seen some of these great cars that never come out.  There is a big gap in the car world between cutting edge customs, and the greatest customs ever built. You guys with the custom bodied classics would steal the show if put on display at a show like that. And would inspire a generation of future car builders. Call it a "throw back to the masters" 

[poci1957]

1 hour ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Do not lose sight that some of the best cars ever built out of the classic era were built by "custom" coach builders.  I wonder what would happen if the AACA rented a booth at SEMA, and stuffed it with high end full senior classics? My guess is you might start to see more interest in the restored side of the classics. A lot of the younger people have no idea, and have never seen some of these great cars that never come out.  You guys with the custom bodied classics would steal the show... And would inspire a generation of future car builders.

 

Xander I think you may be onto a good idea here, Todd C

[padgett]

Seems that we have gotten a flip. Back in the day, the big three supplied complete chassis to the coachbuilders. Today they take an original body and slip a modern chassis under it.

[Amphicar BUYER]

13 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

I am not trying to take anything down a path. Do not lose sight that some of the best cars ever built out of the classic era were built by "custom" coach builders. ....

 

This is a huge problem in our hobby (and business), this stupid, immature and sometimes volatile idea of the "us and them" mentality between the purists and customizes. It is divisive and petty. There is plenty of room for both. I love a correct resto (prefer original survivors) but I also love a well done custom. The thing is that they both do the same thing, they save old cars from ending up being a gas cap for a Yugo. I have seen custom guys get very angry at restorers and visa-versa. A car rodded is saved just as a car restored is saved. If we all just realized the common thread is THE CARS! Work towards a world where a rod can sit next to a resto, they drink from the same gas pump, they both have histories and stories. Restorations are often looked at by the younger crowd as only grandma's car, not art or history. 

 

Resto and Rod lives matter! 

[Xander Wildeisen]

You would see a huge rise in people going to shows and swap meets. This side of the car world is sitting on the coolest customs ever made. But does not get them in front of the younger people that are the driving force on the other side. Exposing people to this side of the car world with your historic customs would have a big impact. But like stated above there is a big gap in the car world between customs and classics, and there should not be.  

[poci1957]

The "us vs. them" is a big topic worthy of it's own thread.  It is true there is an "us vs. them" and many of us are not quite ready to let go of it, probably myself included.  I have softened on my acceptance of street rods but in philosophy I still think restoration and preservation is the higher calling.  BUT on the other hand ever since restoration of big prewar Classics began in the 1950s and 60s most were not authentically restored as delivered but were rebodied and painted and trimmed to the whim of the owner, not that much different in practice than customizing a postwar car. 

 

Also it is true that the craft of a prewar coachbuilder and a modern high end street rod shop is really very similar.  I think Xander is right that the street rod crowd could be inspired to appreciate the big Classics.  I think they could relate to the dream that a rich guy can order a big pimpin' car with the big motor (V12 Packard then, big crate motor now) and ship it to a shop where a team of designers and craftsmen would design and build coachwork just for them (LeBaron then, Chip Foose now) at great expense and when complete you would have a one-off custom for ten or twenty times the cost of a new Ford.  I think it could be a great idea at SEMA as Xander says and seeing as the cars co-mingle at the big auctions already maybe we are not that far away, Todd C

[John348]

I think it is really getting off topic, I myself never viewed it as an "us vs them" thing. I have found that most who follow the "restoration and preservation" aspect of of the hobby have an appreciation of history in a sentimental way, I have not found that with most of the street rod people I have met. It really is two different mindsets. again this my perspective. If I want the feel, ride, comfort, and performance of a new car I get in one and drive it. Sometimes I like to wait for my radio tubes to warm up to listen to the Yankee game, while I feel all the comfort of my mohair or vinyl seats on a 90+ degree day!

If I feel like calling an audible to change XM radio station while I am waiting for my air conditioned leather seats to cool me off, I will drive my new car. While any of my vintage cars could be re -engineered to do the same as my late model Cadillac it's just not the same for me.

 

The difference of the vintage custom coach built cars were built as new cars in the day and were done more of a display of wealth by the owners with their personal improvements. I would only make that comparison if the customs coachwork were being done to new cars being built today.

[Restorer32]

There is one major difference between Classic Era coach builders and high end (or low end for that matter) hot rodders. Classic Era coach builders started with a new, from the factory chassis and/or body, not a potentially rare or historically significant old car. I'm sorry but I see very little similarity.

[Oside_Dude]

Hi. New guy here. Not an AACA member yet (but just signed up for BCA), but I'm looking forward to what I can learn on this forum as well as what I can bring to the table. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Steve_R (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

It is all just food for thought. I just do not see some kid named Preston on a golf course spending hundreds of hours pounding and grinding on a car to turn it into a modern custom. I just think that there is a opening to display the history of the custom side of cars. And that would high light this side of the car world and it's great classic era custom coach built cars. Pull in new people to the classic side, and breath new life in the modern custom side. And let the talent and innovation and creativity on both sides run with it. From time to time this Hobby/Industry can grow stale. And a new trend or fad comes along and breaths new life in it, to carry it forward. I do not want to see the greatest custom cars built from the classic era check them self in to the retirement home. With a move on the concourse side to show case newer classics, to be more in check with the age of people going to the shows. There is a wide open spot for the full senior custom bodied classics to move out in front and be seen on the other side. And what is funny, a new custom built car now, if done right. 50 years from now, will be restored. 

[poci1957]

7 minutes ago, Restorer32 said:

There is one major difference between Classic Era coach builders and high end (or low end for that matter) hot rodders. Classic Era coach builders started with a new, from the factory chassis and/or body, not a potentially rare or historically significant old car.

   

I agree completely and will never endorse being destructive with a salvageable old car.  I am just trying to embrace the idea of reaching out to a hobby that is growing away from us mostly because the authentic old car is (I guess) not sufficiently "fast & loud" for the modern potential hobbyist.  Again, I am all about restoration and preservation but (much to my chagrin) in most of America and on TV most old car activity is in modified cars.  And why is that?  Seems to me one reason is because they are bright and over -the-top and I would argue that many Classics are in stock form as visually and technically out there as a street rod.  Open the hood of a 1930 V16 Cadillac and look at the engine detailing--any street rodder who has never seen one would not believe it.  Likewise the aluminum castings of a Duesenburg.  Look at the style of a Cord L29 convertible coupe, it looks chopped from the factory.  And the historical story of money, power and advanced design of the Coachbuilt era is colorful enough to draw interest and admiration from people not inclined to appreciate, say, a stock 1950 Plymouth.  Maybe they will see the Classic as impressive enough to be interesting in stock form.  I don't know, Xander threw it out there and I think the idea may have potential, Todd C             

[Steve Moskowitz]

Actually, while we are not crazy about the expense of a booth at SEMA and sending staff our to man it we did several years ago arrange for one of  our members to have as perfect a restoration as could be with loads of options to be on display in the ARMO booth at SEMA.  I was there the entire time to gauge the reaction of people and it was for the most part very positive.

 

THE SEMA show is very well attended and it would be cool to have our own booth but it is not so simple for us to do. 

[poci1957]

Hey Steve, do you remember how much?  Maybe share with the CCCA?

[JACK M]

3 hours ago, Amphicar BUYER said:

Resto and Rod lives matter! 

 

 

Now that's a good one right there. 

[Steve Moskowitz]

"Hey Steve, do you remember how much?  Maybe share with the CCCA? "

 

While the space if available (needs to be in the right section, they try to divide the show for the different categories of membership in SEMA (there is an area dedicated to hot rods, race cars, wheels & tires with ARMO coming the closest to our part of the hobby) I can't recall the exact price but it was 4 figures.  Then you have cost of travel, rooms, food, etc plus the cost of shipping cars out there.  So it is no small matter.   

[Xander Wildeisen]

I would think if the right people from the AACA, CCCA, SEMA and the ISCA all sent some emails back and forth. You could make some thing happen. It is in the best interest of all. Street rods, hot rods and customs drive the other side of the industry. And as soon as cars were made, so were customs. The Pebble Beach winning Custom Bodied Packard At the very least should be sitting next to the Riddler Winning Olds From Texas. At the SEMA show, both Cars are the same thing. Custom Bodied cars 80 years apart. I just think it could open up some new areas in the restoration side and the custom side. And get more people crossing over to the different sides to at the least take a look. I can not stress to you enough about the gap between the great classic ear custom bodied cars, and the modern custom car world. A lot of young car builders just have never been around the cars you guys have. You would see it have an effect. In my opinion the AACA and the CCCA are far bigger players in the custom car world then you may think. You have about 100 years of history to prove it.  

[AnniesSS]

Since this thread has gone into another direction I'll chime in briefly on the "custom vs stock" discussion .  Ive had a custom truck for 22 years. Ive have my stock Burb for 4 years. I love both sides of the coin and enjoy attending shows with either truck. Each are different in their own way but I wouldn't have it any other way!