Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 (edited) The components that drive the oil pump in my 1924 6 cylinder motor have heavy wear on contact surfaces transmitting torque. is this normal ? Perhaps someone filled the motor with a heavy grade of oil which strained these oil pump drive components and caused this wear ? The pin inside 41476 oil pump shaft coupling assembly is worn so much that i am concerned it could shear off, resulting in complete loss of oil pressure to bearings and rockers. I plan to replace this pin. One component which wears independantly of torque is the brass oil pump base plate. Both gears sit on this plate and rub as they rotate, slowly wearing into the brass. This one has a relatively light amount of wear, suggesting low mileage on the oil pump. The next component ready to fail in the oil system was the pressure relief valve in the the oil distribution manifold. It's a very simple valve with a small plunger blocking a relief port with a spring to hold it closed. A surge in oil pressure will overpower the spring force, causing the valve to open and spill oil out the side of the valve body to relieve the pressure. When i opened up this valve, the spring was in about 12 small pieces. There would have been no oil pressure the first time the motor was started. Water in the oil caused the spring to rust and break into pieces. The final failure probably already happened long ago. There is smaller tube inside the crank case which supplies oil to the pressure gauge, and rocker arm assembly. Some of that oil returns by running down the push rods and dripping onto the cam rollers. This line was plugged and required over 60 psi air pressure to clear the blockage. When my father bought this motor it was disassembled, and the cam was deeply rutted where the roller lifters make contact. A complete loss of oil to the rockers and rollers could explain why the cam was severely worn. Any motor that has been sitting for decades without running should be opened up and the entire oil system checked out for such issues before starting. Now to explain why the main bearing oil pipe assembly is completely disassembled. One of the soldered joints had broken off at a "T". I applied some heat at the T, and goop inside the tube turned into liquid and starts to pour out. Has anyone ever try to solder a joint that is not completely clean ? it won't stick. So i tried to disassemble the T to get access to the insides to clean by heating and twisting, broke the main pipe, and now have to make a replacement. Kevin Edited June 21, 2016 by Oregon Desert model 45 misspell (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Excellent pictures and information. I always thought the oil distribution tube was many pieces, not one piece with holes in it with tees soldered over the holes. What is your plan to remedy all this? Replace all worn parts, or just the really worn ones like the shaft that drives the pin, and the pin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Bourque Posted June 21, 2016 Share Posted June 21, 2016 Kevin I have a spare 1925 Master 6 oil tube and a solution for rebuilding your oil pump. It will require some machining. I just went through this with my 25 Master and I believe the 25 parts I have will interchange with the 1924 Master, maybe Leaf will see this and verify. Let me know if I can help. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 22, 2016 Author Share Posted June 22, 2016 The worn pin inside the 41476 oil pump shaft coupling is about 3/16 dia, and should be be relatively easy to remove & replace. I am going to try weld repairing the shaft to add material back to the worn edges inside the slot, though It's a difficult location to completely fill in material. If the weld looks good, then the slot can be cleaned up by hand file. If i completely screw it up, then I can turn a new shaft on the lathe, and hand file or grind the slot and square form at either end. For fixing the pressure valve, I found a spring that fits into the valve, and will devise some way to block off the other tube openings and use air pressure to verify the valve stays closed until at least 30 psi. I have a roll of 1/2" soft copper tubing to fabricate a replacement Main Bearing Oil pipe. I just have to figure out how to bend this tubing without kinking it. All of the fittings that attach to the tube are now clean and should resolder easily. Jim - thanks for the offer. Let me see how successful these repairs work out first, and if I run into difficulties, then will be looking for replacement parts. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_B Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Kevin, The two ways I know to bend soft copper pipe without kinking it are to fill the pipe with sand and cap the ends or fill the pipe with lead. Once the pipe is filled it will bend without kinking. When you have the desired shape you empty the pipe and you're good to go. Dave 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Engle Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Soft copper is fairly easy to bend if you use a spring bender on the outside of the tube and then use the usual tub bender to shape the curve. Now bending brass is a whole different animal and a real challenge! Bob Engle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leif Holmberg Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 You can use some of oil pump parts from Master up to 1927. Leif in Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Kevin, Did we check for these parts on my spare engine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave_B Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 10 hours ago, Bob Engle said: Soft copper is fairly easy to bend if you use a spring bender on the outside of the tube and then use the usual tub bender to shape the curve. Now bending brass is a whole different animal and a real challenge! Bob Engle I forgot about the spring bender method. I've done it that way too and it works well. Plus, it's simpler. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROD W Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Bob, Dave, I,m not familiar with the spring bender method of bending tube. Can you enlighten me. Thanks Rod 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
27donb Posted June 22, 2016 Share Posted June 22, 2016 Rod, They may be referring to springs like this: https://www.amazon.com/General-Tools-S106-Tubing-Bender/dp/B00004T827 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 Mark I can't recall if your spare 24 motor still had the oil pan bolted on or not. Another question: what is a good source for the 3/8" square cork strip used over the main bearing journals at front & rear of the oil pan ? I have a couple of rolls of 1/8" cork gasket stock for making pan & rocker cover gaskets. thanks for all the ideas for bending the tube. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 isn't one of the seals there supposed to be felt as well? I vaguely recall reading that in one of the parts books Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oregon Desert model 45 Posted June 23, 2016 Author Share Posted June 23, 2016 The Timing cover has felt seal at the pulley. I recently replaced this felt with a modern seal. Kevin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 Kevin, Olsen's Gaskets has the cork seal you need... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The 22 engines I have used felt. McMaster Carr John 1922-6-55 Sport Touring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzBob Posted June 23, 2016 Share Posted June 23, 2016 The felt seals I have replaced with new felt seals seem to work for awhile until they become saturated then they begin to leak as before. Maybe I am doing something wrong. Have considered replacing the felt with modern seals where practical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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