Ridiculous Popular Mechanics Article making auto parts on 3D printer

[FrankWest107]

The general public is getting more and more technically illiterate in our day and stories like this are not helping. They should stress the word "MockUp"  which is form, fit but not function.

Anyone want a 1933 Packard engine made out of Plastic?

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a4354/4320759/

Edited October 4, 2015 by FrankWest107 (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

Well, I'm going right out to the garage and throw some bean seeds in my glove box... magic ones. If I see Jay along the road I should be able to talk him out of whatever he is driving.

 

I saw a picture of the feedwater heater when I was reading the dictionary the other day. It was right next to "ambiguous".

 

Please use the promo code JAY and we'll send you TWO for the price of one, just add extra processing and shipping.

 

The watch thing is a cute touch. It reminds me of my Brother buying a new 1976 Ford Granada and infuriating the Mercedes owner next door.

Bernie

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

I couldn't be bothered to watch the article.  Suffice to say, however, that there are several 3D printing technologies that make METAL parts.  I'm an aerospace engineer and a number of companies already make rocket engine parts on 3D printers.  I'm talking about turbopump impellers (think turbocharger wheels, but operating at -238 deg F pumping liquid oxygen).  Ford is testing a 3D sheet metal printer that works like a dot matrix printer but can be programmed to form fenders.  The technology exists, and the parts are equal in strength to regular cast parts.  Now it's just a matter of getting the price down.  Twenty years ago, the plastic 3D printers cost as much as a small house.  Today you can buy one for your desktop.  Expect the same thing to happen with the metal printers.

[capngrog]

The article has this wording in its second paragraph: " The 3D printer makes an exact copy of a part in plastic, which we then send out to create a mold."  This is pretty clear; however, as Frank pointed out, this is not stressed in the balance of the article.  The 3D printer processes described in the rest of the article are not clear that a plastic part (heater ducts excepted) can only be used as a pattern if its original is made of some sort of metal.

 

A good friend of mine routinely uses the 3D print process to produce patterns which he then has cast in iron, bronze etc.  He is very pleased with the process and it renders pattern making nearly painless.

 

Wish I had a 3D printer,

Grog

[Beltfed]

I was watching a program the other day on F-1 cars. You know, the fast ones. They are going to use 3D printing at trackside if needed to modify a part to fit track conditions. Progress guys, you can't stop it so might as well jump on for the ride.

[John_S_in_Penna]

I didn't see anything misleading about the article.

It did mention using the plastic parts as trials;

said that some 3D printers print directly in metal;

and that scans could be sent to a CDC machine for

production in metal.

[capngrog]

I was watching a program the other day on F-1 cars. You know, the fast ones. They are going to use 3D printing at trackside if needed to modify a part to fit track conditions. Progress guys, you can't stop it so might as well jump on for the ride.

 

That's really cool, but you can't replace a metal part with a plastic part and expect it to last more than a nanosecond or two.  If the F-1 crowd are doing as you say, they must be using the really sophi$ticated 3D printers that can produce a part in metal.  I believe that the metallurgical properties of a  metal part produced by the 3D printing process are as yet, not fully understood.  For example, a 3D printer cannot produce a part that is equivalent to a forged part.  At least that's the case for now.  Who knows for the future?

 

Technology is great when it does what you want it to do,

Grog

[jeff_a]

Our little library in a town of 3,000 has a 3-D printer next to the 2-D printer, but it has it's limits.

[JPHIL]

A .45 caliber pistol has been manufactured using the 3D process in steel.

 

It has been test fired with no problem.

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

[Guest AlCapone]

Nothing to get too excited about in my little world ! Wayne

[60FlatTop]

I was only misled by the title, subtitle, and some of the text. Although I designed a jet printer with conductive ink fluids for experimental circuit boards in the early '90's, any question of viability or application would probably label me as a 3D printer "denier" in today's culture. The sheep like that "d" word.

 

Who bought the $2995 scanner from the link?

Bernie

[FrankWest107]

A .45 caliber pistol has been manufactured using the 3D process in steel.

 

It has been test fired with no problem.

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

During WW2 the US dropped thousands of Very Cheaply made 45s to allow resistance forces several shots each at The enemy. These cheesy tin guns lasted only several shots till they no longer worked. So just because a cheesy gun is produced and fired a few times..means nothing. JD kids used to make zip gun with car antennas and rubber bands and wood and tape handles too. Our world is not the world of Star Trek yet, far from it.

 

How does it cut and shape the metal? Does it use an attached lathe or deposit the metal one molecule at a time on what substraight? Does it give proper harness/temper? Or do you Know of are just making statements?

Edited October 5, 2015 by FrankWest107 (see edit history)

[joe_padavano]

A .45 caliber pistol has been manufactured using the 3D process in steel.

It has been test fired with no problem.

Welcome to the 21st century.

How does it cut and shape the metal? Does it use an attached lathe or deposit the metal one molecule at a time on what substraight? Does it give proper harness/temper? Or do you Know of are just making statements?

I can't speak to making firearms, but I can speak to making rocket engine parts. There are two different technologies. One sinters powdered metal with a high power laser. The other deposits metal using a technique similar to MIG welding. Both produce pares with properties similar to those of one machined from base metal. The sintering process also allows different types of metal to be fused (such as aluminum on one end and steel on the other). Post-fabrication operations such as drilling and tapping are required, just as the are for any machined part. Similarly, critical surfaces may need to be machined. Consider the 3D printed part to be equivalent to a casting, without the need for a mold.

[benjamin j]

The 3D printing part of it is actually the easy part. Programing the printer is of course the hard part. I purchased a cheep 3D scanner recently and it is fun to play with but the really nice one that I would like to have is in the $200’000 price range. That’s not going to happen for me.  

[FrankWest107]

I can't speak to making firearms, but I can speak to making rocket engine parts. There are two different technologies. One sinters powdered metal with a high power laser. The other deposits metal using a technique similar to MIG welding. Both produce pares with properties similar to those of one machined from base metal. The sintering process also allows different types of metal to be fused (such as aluminum on one end and steel on the other). Post-fabrication operations such as drilling and tapping are required, just as the are for any machined part. Similarly, critical surfaces may need to be machined. Consider the 3D printed part to be equivalent to a casting, without the need for a mold.

My background is Physics. I worked for Hughes Aircraft Solar Array Design for 20 years. Desgned many spacecraft including The Pioneer Venus Mission. The techniques you mentioned require big time connection with power and supplies that need to be located in designated manufacturing areas not easy access for the guy on the street that believes that he will put a duplicator in his bedroom and replicate a rolls royce. Also there are size considerations..Even a 36 in by 48 in paper printer is a big deal for home use. When you want to duplicate a car door or frame you will need a very large scale 3D printer.

[60FlatTop]

Back around 1986 I was standing next to a satellite chassis that was sitting on a surface table. One of the fabricators leaned toward me and said "the base is made from Invar to handle cold in space because it has a very low coefficient of expansion." I said "Yeah, Invar struts are cast into the pistons of my 1936 Nash Advanced Six for the a similar reason."

 

I'm the guy who had to reduce air pressure in a room at a rate equal to escape velocity. I shoulda been a journalist. I'd have a better grasp on the 21st Century.

Bernie

Edited October 5, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[capngrog]

A .45 caliber pistol has been manufactured using the 3D process in steel.

 

It has been test fired with no problem.

 

Welcome to the 21st century.

 

Your comments regarding my statement about the limitations of a given technology seem "to have an edge".    Instead of being a buncha

Luddites   as your "Welcome to the 21st century" comment seems to infer, I think that the overwhelming majority of Posters on this thread appreciate the technology associated with 3D printing, while recognizing its limitations for the home hobbyist.   The article cited by the Original Poster emphasized that the 3D printers that are now available to the home hobbyist print in plastic; however, the plastic figures produced can be used as patterns for making molds for casting in metal.

 

As to the 3D printers available to "Industry" which can print in metal, those machine$ are way beyond the finance$ and capabilities of the typical home hobbyist ... at least for this particular home hobbyist.

 

Still wishin' I had a 3D printer,

Grog

[capngrog]

Back around 1986 I was standing next to a satellite chassis that was sitting on a surface table. One of the fabricators leaned toward me and said "the base is made from Invar to handle cold in space because it has a very low coefficient of expansion." I said "Yeah, Invar struts are cast into the pistons of my 1936 Nash Advanced Six for the a similar reason."

 

I'm the guy who had to reduce air pressure in a room at a rate equal to escape velocity. I shoulda been a journalist. I'd have a better grasp on the 21st Century.

Bernie

 

I'd never heard of 'Invar' before.  I'll bet that somewhere, someone is using an advanced 3D printer to make things out of 'Invar'.

 

For those who are interested, here's a link to the Wiki on 'Invar';  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invar

 

Still learnin' after all these years,

Grog

[Joe Cocuzza]

All this technology is going to lead to the creation of the "Terminator" in real life.

Once artificial intelligence is perfected - watch out..................

[joe_padavano]

My background is Physics. I worked for Hughes Aircraft Solar Array Design for 20 years. Desgned many spacecraft including The Pioneer Venus Mission. The techniques you mentioned require big time connection with power and supplies that need to be located in designated manufacturing areas not easy access for the guy on the street that believes that he will put a duplicator in his bedroom and replicate a rolls royce. Also there are size considerations..Even a 36 in by 48 in paper printer is a big deal for home use. When you want to duplicate a car door or frame you will need a very large scale 3D printer.

I worked for Hughes on the Galileo Probe.  We probably overlapped (I was in El Segundo from 1980-87).  I helped the DI lab get the first stereolithography machine back in 1987.  As for metallic printing, the machine size and power requirements are advancing daily.  I have first-hand experience with printing metal turbopump impellers for LOX and kerosene, as well as regen-cooled rocket engine thrust chambers.  This technology exists today and the parts are MUCH less expensive than those built with more traditional methods. Again, the sintered metal process provides a part analogous to a cast part, without the need for molds or casting. It is considerably less expensive.  Major companies like Boeing and Aerojet have machines in place that are manufacturing rocket engines as large or larger than most engine blocks.  Yes, the limit is the cost of the machine, but that is coming down on the same type of learning curve as computers and cell phones did.  No, you won't have a machine this large in your garage, but it won't be long before specialty vendors have machines like this that can print a repro engine block or cylinder head.  Yes, you'd still need to do the machining that you would with a raw cast part, but that's a lot easier than having to build a mold and cores.

 

As for sheet metal parts, as I noted above, Ford and others are working on machines that form sheet metal using a matrix of pins that are controlled with solenoids or other mechanisms.  That technology is further away, but it is being developed.  Once it is perfected, forming custom body panels will be much easier than current hand-forming techniques.  This will be a major benefit to the old car hobby.

[John_S_in_Penna]

Joe P, thank you for your detailed explanations.

People who have first-hand knowledge of a subject

really add to the usefulness of this forum!

[60FlatTop]

If you have ever been stuck operating a couple of coal stoker Scotch Marine boilers on the midnight shift and had a valve in the reciprocating feedwater pump crack you learn a lot about injector pumps in a hurry. And an intimacy with steam from that experience is going to make one laugh at these infomercial articles. I have warned my children that the authors of this type of fodder need groceries and that is the main purpose of such articles.

 

A few years ago I was working for a large institution. A vendor had hired a ghost writer to write a trade article on the success of their product in our application. Management asked me accept a phone interview with the author. I told the author the product was crap and would not endorse it to my peers verbally or in a publication. Although I got a lot of heat from management on that one I refused to communicate anything but the truth, without nebulous implications or implied favor. I was reminded of the incident by this topic.

 

So you Stanley guys, is that failed heat exchanger really aluminum or is it brass? Is it a shell and tube or a plate type? Have you seen the printed version in operation? The heat exchanger is the specific part referred to in the article. I'd like to know about that. I might even like to know if the author has been close enough to touch it.

 

I wasn't born a cynic; I was trained by 50 years of attentive observation.

 

Anyway, I think it's fun to shoot back.

  

Bernie

Edited October 6, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[Guest AlCapone]

With all due respect what does all this have to do with AACA and our hobby. It is nice that people have significant credentials in a particular field of endeavour but of very little interest to the majority of members on his site. IMO

Wayne

[joe_padavano]

So you Stanley guys, is that failed heat exchanger really aluminum or is it brass? Is it a shell and tube or a plate type? Have you seen the printed version in operation? The heat exchanger is the specific part referred to in the article. I'd like to know about that. I might even like to know if the author has been close enough to touch it.

  

Bernie

 

I don't know anything about the heat exchanger in the article.  I do know that 3D printed rocket engine thrust chambers have been successfully operated at 1000 psi chamber pressure.  These chambers have very small internal passageways in the walls where fuel is circulated prior to entering the chamber for cooling purposes.  My whole point was that the technology is very real and is very quickly becoming financially viable as a replacement for casting.  Fabrication of replacements for obsolete or unavailable castings, including those that are exposed to severe environments is very feasible.

[60FlatTop]

I think the original post and the 24 replies are quite related to the hobby, in general, and the goals of the AACA, which I did join a couple of years ago in thanks for supporting this forum.

 

All the replies have been valid and knowledgeable from contributors with skills in many related areas. All could probably have written a more objective article than the one Popular Mechanics by-lined "by Jay Leno". I have seen Jay Leno on various media and comments like "error-prone machinist" and "rusty aluminum" aren't even going to come out of someone with a career of script reading. He wouldn't say that and there was no disclaimer at the end of the article warning the reader not to take the words literally. It's ghost writer stuff from a writer that got $2500 for groceries. If Jay Leno did read the draft and took exception to the stupid stuff he probably got a pat on the back and was told "in a perfect world we could make it more intelligent, but......"  

 

So we are left with a lame document that some automotive historian will find 50 years from now and take as the Gospel of Jay.

 

I bet the heat exchanger was brass with asbestos insulation, protected by an aluminum shield. If it wasn't it should have been.

 

OR a foreign power hacked the original document. They do that in Hollywood.

Bernie

Edited October 7, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[JoeRiley]

Does anyone have pricing on getting something scanned and printed?

I am building a 37 zephyr and would like to add some custom chrome trim.

Do it  traditional would run about 15k so was looking in to having my car scanned and custom trim done by 3D printer in either rigid plastic or Stainless steel then chromed.

 

Found several places on line that will take a 3D rendering and produce the trim but no cost # yet.

 

Just wondering about approx costs for this application?

[FrankWest107]

Back around 1986 I was standing next to a satellite chassis that was sitting on a surface table. One of the fabricators leaned toward me and said "the base is made from Invar to handle cold in space because it has a very low coefficient of expansion." I said "Yeah, Invar struts are cast into the pistons of my 1936 Nash Advanced Six for the a similar reason."

 

I'm the guy who had to reduce air pressure in a room at a rate equal to escape velocity. I shoulda been a journalist. I'd have a better grasp on the 21st Century.

Bernie

http://www.bbc.com/autos/story/20151006-lexus-builds-a-drivable-paper-sedan

[60FlatTop]

"The team admits there some false starts" Like using a blue laser and no one liked the cold cuts?

Bernie

[John_S_in_Penna]

Does anyone have pricing on getting something scanned and printed?

I am building a 37 zephyr and would like to add some custom chrome trim...

I think, at the current state of the technology,

the size of the object will have a large impact

on the price. Large items take many more hours

for printing. I understand that Jay Leno's garage,

for example, recently upgraded to a machine that

will "print" items up to 18 inches long.

And that's a large shop with an ample budget.

Are 3D printers readily available (I ask other forum members)

for large items such as bodyside trim?

Edited October 8, 2015 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[60FlatTop]

All this technology is going to lead to the creation of the "Terminator" in real life.

Once artificial intelligence is perfected - watch out..................

I heard they had one of those artificial intelligence workers in Scotland. Then the Boss came out and said he'd like a little Lass to help out in the office. Last I heard that one is working in a machine shop in Germany.

Bernie

[Guest bkazmer]

I was at a tech conference which had some papers on this, and as a previous poster said, the technology is over 20 years old , but evolving.

You can make a plastic model of a part - this can be used for mock up, dimension tests, program a robot, etc

You can make a plastic model good enough to build a mold from, either via traditional CNC or other means.

These are older abilities.

 

You can make a functional plastic part in some thermoplastics.

You can make a functional part in some metals.

These two are newer and quite expensive - however they are best suited to situation of low volume, high value where a conventional tool cost is spread over few parts.  This area has some promise for old car parts.