rsteere

Help needed for the value of a '64 KX coded car?

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I need some opinions from other first gen Riviera followers/owners. I have come to the conclusion that I will not be able to restore my '64 Riviera. As I try to figure out a fair value I became confused. I have been watching 2 of them for sale on ebay. Both were reloaded again. Is the value placed on these cars close to reality?  They appeard to be a little high to me. And yes I understand that they are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them.

Thanks for your help. Randy

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It is hard to provide you with estimates without seeing pictures but I would value a KX coded car at least $1,500-$3,500 more than the standard offering providing that the engine is solid with condition being everything.  It is also a plus if the carbs are correct and all the chromed components and valve covers are accounted for as well as the transmission kick down switch linkage.  I have seen the intake and carbs sell for more than what I have quoted and all the eye candy items can be expensive as well.  There are people out there that are probably more interested in the engine if the car needs a complete restoration.

Of course the dual quad 64 will not command the same price as a 65 Gran Sport with conditions being equal.

Edited by Pat Curran (see edit history)

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Yes we'd need to see pics of your car inside and out to make any specific reference on value. Color, options, and condition can make a big difference.

 

I think Pats assessment is on target.

 

I looked at the two auctions. In summary I'd say value is in range of $4000-$6500 for both with the maroon car having the edge. The high bid on the Maroon car of $6400+ I think was a good price for the seller. Both of those cars deserve to be resurrected but it will probably take someone who has disposable income or has good parts connections and restoration skills to do work themselves.

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Here are a few pictures of the car when I brought it home. You can kinda see the general condition of the car. The known bad so far is the right front floor pan needs replaced. All of the others are ok. Of coarse the steering wheel is wrong. The brakes are bad. It scared the shit out of me the first time I drove it and the pedal went hard then to the floor. And probably more that I haven't uncoverd yet. I have 99.9% of everything need to put it back together nicely with my cherry parts car and the extra parts I have collected.

Opinions are welcome. Randy

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I'd say your car is close to the two existing auctions. So whatever those cars bid up to will give you a solid real world idea. If your car runs and drives plus you have a parts car that will bump the value if you can find the right person looking for a 64 dual quad project.  

 

Good Luck - I hope the car goes to a good home so it can be brought back life as a good looking running driver. If you advertise the car for sale consider placing an ad over at V8Buick.com also.

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OK Riviera People: I have been tracking that pair of 64 Rivs on the ebay and I have a really hard time believing that these cars are worth that much.  It would cost at least 6 grand to get one even close to where I could drive it to the store and back.  Frankly, I do not trust the bidding on these cars one bit.

 

Randy, your car is a 64 Riv. ( we know that  haha) Custom, power windows, a/c. It ain't that bad for starters. Much better than the pair on the auction.  While no restoration is easy and they all cost lots of money it looks like your car has a head start.  Believe it or not,  the biggest drawback for me is that the car is white. I would change it up but you are selling it so that's part of the big picture.

 

One other red flag I see is that you said your parts car is "cherry".  A "Cherry" First-Gen Riviera is anything but a parts car.

 

My suggestion for marketing these cars would be to take some nice pictures of both cars and sell them individually right here on the forum.  Bleed the brakes, install a hot battery and gas so the car at least yard drives. Your location is critical and leaving that out will only hinder your chances of a good sale. For the right price, probably a bit South of 4 grand, the white car will sell quickly with very little drama.    Mitch

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As a helpful metric, here is a "done" car, for under $20k.

 

http://spokane.craigslist.org/cto/5112750826.html

 

1964 Buick Riviera, Originally special ordered. High performance 425 Nailhead, balanced, Dual 4 barrels, Posi-traction. Totally rebuilt. Less than 10,000 miles. New domed pistons. Stainless seats, Runs perfect. Third owner and have owned it since '82. Member of Riviera Owners Association. Call for further details. (509)328-2836 . 19500 OBO.

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OK Chris: The powder blue car looks really nice. Have you seen it up close?  Color, hardened seats and no a/c are drawbacks. Quality is a huge plus (besides it being a 64 Riviera).  This looks like a really great piece to either have fun with and/or take to the next level...if that's really necessary.   Don't forget it says 19.5 or best offer, so there may be some wiggle room in the price.   Always keep in mind that there seem to be a slug of low price prospects vs fewer high priced prospects.

 

As always, get that price at market and these things sell quickly!   Mitch

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OK Chris: The powder blue car looks really nice. Have you seen it up close?  Color, hardened seats and no a/c are drawbacks. Quality is a huge plus (besides it being a 64 Riviera).  This looks like a really great piece to either have fun with and/or take to the next level...if that's really necessary.   Don't forget it says 19.5 or best offer, so there may be some wiggle room in the price.   Always keep in mind that there seem to be a slug of low price prospects vs fewer high priced prospects.

 

As always, get that price at market and these things sell quickly!   Mitch

 

I haven't seen it before Mitch.  He is about 5-6 hours away, and I am guessing doesn't make it over to the west side of mountains for shows much, just like I don't make it over to the east side.  Looks like a nice car though. 

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It is a very presentable looking car and the price seems fair on the surface.  The seller claims it has a Dynaflow which it would not have in 1964.  The exhaust looks correct which is nice as many have been altered over the years.  All the decals are in place and the engine bay looks tidy and has the correct tower clamps.  The wood veneer looks like it has been freshened and looks good.  One thing I noticed is the trunk lining has some water staining at the base of the left wheel well which is certainly a very minor quibble.  Not sure what is going on and why it hasn't sold but I think the color looks good on this car.  

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Hello everyone, hope you are having a great weekend, maybe getting ready to enjoy some football. I need a little bit of help on the dual four bbl. carb subject.

 

I purchased my first Riviera just before Christmas, a very nice Surf Green 64’ with black vinyl interior and some great options, but not AC L. I am looking to buy a second Riviera and came across a very clean looking 64’ Desert Beige (also without AC) but has very low miles, 5 owner car, won an award at the 2013 Concourse D’ Elegance in St. Joseph, MI. What caught my eye beyond the apparent original clean looking exterior and saddle interior, was the dual four bbl. carbs. The owner is a very nice gentlemen, ROA member, and on the selling info he includes the following info which suggests the dual 4 bbl. carbs was a dealer installed option? I have asked for a copy of the body by Fisher build plate (not sure if this is the correct term) but do not have it yet.

 

B-1      FT Seat Belts – Retractors                                                                7.53

D-5      AM-FM Power Antennas                                                               178.99

E-4      Carpet Savers F-R.                                                                         12.93

E-6      Rear Seat Speaker                                                                         17.20

I-6       Tinted Glass                                                                                   43.00

J2        Power Seat                                                                                    70.95

M-7     Wire Wheel Covers                                                                        80.63

S7       Remote Control Mirror                                                                   11.88

T1       White Wall Tires                                                                             39.56

U6       Power Vents                                                                                  53.75

U7       Power Windows                                                                           107.50

No #    Custom Trim Vinyl Interior                                                           139.75

W5      Has dealer installed dual 4 bbl. carbs SUPER WILDCAT motor  139.75

 

Can you verify this, and provide any more information about this option and how much it might add to the value of the car?

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply, greatly appreciated! Have a great weekend, Scott

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I just came across some info on a website called wildaboutcars.com that appears to verify that for the 1964 Riviera the dual four bbl. carbs could be had as a "delivered in the trunk, dealer installed option". Most interesting.

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I've never heard of that "delivered in the trunk" option for '64, but as I understand it, that's the way some of the first '66's came from the factory.  All that's really necessary to confirm the Super Wildcat option for '64 is to look for a KX block and see that the VIN matches the engine serial number. One thing you can do, if you can really scrutinize the car, it to look for casting (not stamped) dates in the intake manifold and see how close they are to the build date of the car.   There are also no records in Flint to support anything like this.  There are no records in Flint to support individual cars off the assembly line.

 

If the car had the option installed by the dealer, then it would not be on the data sheet.  There would be no option code is installed by the dealer, it would have been a service ticket with the factory part numbers, not option codes, and the labor to install it.  Part of that high performance options would have been a different distributor. The dual four barrel distributor part number is 111058 and is on the aluminum tag that is wrapped around the distributor housing shaft. IMHO, this is one of those caveat emptor items.  It would be very unusual for paper work like that to follow a car through five owners.   Do all of the research yourself, don't depend on the word of others.

 

Ed

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I just came across some info on a website called wildaboutcars.com that appears to verify that for the 1964 Riviera the dual four bbl. carbs could be had as a "delivered in the trunk, dealer installed option". Most interesting.

 Can you post that link for the rest of us?  I found the website but nothing like what you're saying.  Hopefully it's not like the automotive mileposts website.  They show pictures of '64 wheel covers for '65, and one of their pictures of a deluxe interior shows a  door panel that has had the wood removed from the panel, and a remote mirror toggle that is missing the escutcheon.

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Hi Ed, thanks for chiming in. Here is the website link and pasted below is the specific info from this page I was referring to. Looking forward to hearing what you think, and others too of course :), Scott

 

The last iteration of the Nailhead was the 425 cubic inch model with its larger 4.3125" bore, but same stroke as the 401. It was introduced in 1963 where it began as an option on the new Riviera. It was later available on the Wildcat and Electra models as well. Surprisingly, the 1964 and 1966 Riviera had the 425 engine as standard, but in 1965, the standard Riviera returned to the 401. Four barrel carburation was standard on all 425 Nailheads, called the "Wildcat 465". That "465" sticker on the air cleaner did not denote engine displacement as many thought, it denoted the torque rating, which Buick was very proud of, since it overshadowed almost every other V8 of the time.

 

The 425 was considered a true performance engine by Buick, and in 1964 it was possible to order a two 4 barrel carb intake, which was delivered in the trunk along with the the special 4-barrel carbs, to be installed by the dealer. In 1965 it was called "Super Wildcat" and it was standard as a factory installed option on the 1965 Riviera Gran Sport and the 1966 Wildcat "GS". The 2-4s were still a "trunk option" for the rest of the Buick line for most of 1966. In May 1966, Buick offered this Super Wildcat 465 with dual 4BBL Carter AFB's as a factory installed option on all 425 equipped Buicks, except for the Skylark GS where it was a dealer install on the 401. This is a very sought after option for restorers as it adds a bit of cache to the vehicle and is acceptable due to the "dealer installation" option.

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I just came across some info on a website called wildaboutcars.com that appears to verify that for the 1964 Riviera the dual four bbl. carbs could be had as a "delivered in the trunk, dealer installed option". Most interesting.

Why would the factory place the parts for a dual quad installation in the trunk of the car to be installed by the dealer when the option was readily available factory installed? Simple reasoning targets this as mis-information...and I believe it is.

As Ed states, because the dual quad option was no longer available from the factory at the beginning of the `66 model year, guidelines for dealer installation of the option was provided by the zone offices on both the Riv and Skylark GS. There is no evidence or documentation that the parts were  supplied in the trunk of a new `66 factory built car THAT I KNOW OF. Again...THAT I KNOW OF. If there is evidence or docs, perhaps someone will chime in.

  Tom Mooney

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You have to take into consideration that the writers of these articles are just that - writers.  They make their living writing about all makes and models of cars; they're not experts on any one particular car.  Maybe at the time they could have taken their information from factory reps or hands on experience, but writing about something 50 years old, that you're not that familiar with in the first place, is a stretch to get everything correct.

 

Please don't think that I'm saying that the car is question might not be a good buy, but I would go into the deal knowing that the "dealer installed" carbs is in all likely hood false, and then work out price that good for everyone.  Get that cast number from the intake manifold and the carb numbers.  Compare them to the info that's available and make an educated purchase.  Too many times we buy a car with our heart, not our head.

 

Ed

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Why would the factory place the parts for a dual quad installation in the trunk of the car to be installed by the dealer when the option was readily available factory installed? Simple reasoning targets this as mis-information...and I believe it is.

As Ed states, because the dual quad option was no longer available from the factory at the beginning of the `66 model year, guidelines for dealer installation of the option was provided by the zone offices on both the Riv and Skylark GS. There is no evidence or documentation that the parts were  supplied in the trunk of a new `66 factory built car THAT I KNOW OF. Again...THAT I KNOW OF. If there is evidence or docs, perhaps someone will chime in.

  Tom Mooney

Good questions and comments Tom, I haven't come across this either and is exactly why I am asking the question as the seller of the car is a good person and the car has won at least one prestigious award. As a heads up, I tried emailing you earlier today on the ROA site as I believe you are listed as a technical advisor for the first gen Riviera's but the email link did not work? Thanks, Scott

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You have to take into consideration that the writers of these articles are just that - writers.  They make their living writing about all makes and models of cars; they're not experts on any one particular car.  Maybe at the time they could have taken their information from factory reps or hands on experience, but writing about something 50 years old, that you're not that familiar with in the first place, is a stretch to get everything correct.

 

Please don't think that I'm saying that the car is question might not be a good buy, but I would go into the deal knowing that the "dealer installed" carbs is in all likely hood false, and then work out price that good for everyone.  Get that cast number from the intake manifold and the carb numbers.  Compare them to the info that's available and make an educated purchase.  Too many times we buy a car with our heart, not our head.

 

Ed

Yup, guilty of that one, maybe more than once :)

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These aren't great photos, but were included in the listing for the car;

 All 2 x 4 setups on a Buick, look the same, 64  - 66 except for the California cars..  The Super Wildcat engine was also available on the Wildcat and the Electra for the same years.  The carbs are probably correct for a nailhead as is the manifold and the air cleaner but as I said earlier, you need to get pictures of carb numbers, manifold casting numbers, and distributor number. Then compare them to known standards.  You should also get pictures of the production code number and engine serial number, and make sure that the engine serial number matches the VIN.  That could even be a '65 LX motor in a '64.  Only good quality pictures or an in person visit will yield the truth.

 

Ed

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Thanks Ed, will certainly try and attain this info from the seller. The seller says that the car had a restoration in the early 90's but believes the 50k mileage (seems very low to me) to be accurate. Cheers, Scott

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Awards are usually based on appearance, not authenticity. Once again, you'd at the mercy of people judging a car that are unaware of the particular nuances of each model. Did the judges look at all of the stamped and casting numbers to confirm "factory built?"  Did they even have any literature on the car. The only place that I'd put any credence on a judges award for a Buick would be at a Buick show.

 

How many eBay ads to you see where the seller is selling a part for a "63 - 65" Riviera, when in fact it's one year only part? If you're really interested, and willing spend that much money, it would probably be worth a trip to see it  in person.  Or, seeing that you're an ROA member, contact another member in the seller's locale and have it inspected.  Just make sure that whoever inspects the car is well informed himself.

 

Ed

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We are on the same page, I let the seller know this morning that I could travel that way in a few weeks (after going to Scottsdale at the end of next week :))

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