MichaelRyerson Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Looking for a good faith ballpark of what I might reasonably expect to spend on rebuilding a 320, going to insert bearings and including the dual carbs and a 12 volt conversion. Not looking for a ridiculous bargain, am willing to spend good money but really have no idea what I'm getting myself into here. Edited June 24, 2015 by MichaelRyerson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 (edited) Michael, good question. You do not say what year, probably does not matter much. I spent north of $3500.00 on my 248 for parts and machine work. I expect 320 would be comparable. The duel manifold and carbs will be $1200.00 or so according to what I saw at the National Meet.Plus cost of '49 or later rods. Or after market. I dis-assembled and assembled mine myself . 12V is not much, I bought a rebuilt 65 amp alt at O'Reilies. A few bulbs. Have not hooked radio and heater yet. What is it going in ? Ben Edited June 24, 2015 by First Born (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 Michael, good question. You do not say what year, probably does not matter much. I spent north of $3500.00 on my 248 for parts and machine work. I expect 320 would be comparable. The duel manifold and carbs will be $1200.00 or so according to what I saw at the National Meet.Plus cost of '49 or later rods. Or after market. I dis-assembled and assembled mine myself . 12V is not much, I bought a rebuilt 65 amp alt at O'Reilies. A few bulbs. Have not hooked radio and heater yet. What is it going in ? Ben Thanks so much for your reply Ben. It's a '41 Century. The dual carb set-up is with the car so, at a minimum, I would be looking at rebuilding them both, but would seriously consider going to two primaries with straight linkage. The biggest hurdle seems to be finding a shop to do the work. I can buy a finished car (what fun would that be?) or I can try to bring this car back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37_Roadmaster_C Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Michael, I just had the 320 compleatly rebuilt for the 37 Roadmaster. The rebuild included new oversize pistons/rings, valves, valve guides, rod machining for inserts, crank grinding for new bearings, cam grinding, boaring for oversize pistons and rings, planing the head and manafolds as required and all other various work needed. The carb rebuild was only a single 2 barrel stromberg (?sp). The rebuilder is a local man who will only do quality / exceptional work. If you ask him to cut a corner he will ask you to take your work to someone else, period. I am exceptionally happy with the work done and have no complaints at all. Now for the price... $7000.00 + a little and I would do it again with no hesitation for the quality of the work. My rebuilder did everything. I simply delivered the motor and picked it up. The price is a little on the high side, but I honestly feel I got what I paid for including the factory green paint I supplied . If you are in the Northwest and would like the contact info for my rebuilder, feel free to PM me and I will get back to you. I did not alter the factory electrical system so I am no help with that part of your question. Just my 2 cents, leave the electrical system origional, it works fine as built. Robin Edited June 25, 2015 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hidden_hunter Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I did not alter the factory electrical system so I am no help with that part of your question. Just my 2 cents, leave the electrical system origional, it works fine as built. Robin I don't know what the 37's like but even on a 26 the 6v works just fine. There seems to be a general consensus on here to make sure you're not converting to 12v for the wrong reason and that you're just masking another problem 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buicknutty Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 It partly depends on whether or not you are able to much work yourself, and how much it needs. I'd tend to second Robin's values to have it all done.I have done a lot of engine work, and prefer to do the final assembly myself, which also saves me a bit of money. A have a '41 Roadmaster coupe, (Canadian built) with the factory duals, Strombergs in my case, which have given me no end of troubles. Rebuilds run 2-250 each. Exhaust manifolds can crack, if not treated carefully. If the ones are your car are still good, do some research before reassembly. There is some info in the forum here, if you do a search for it. There is also a guy who goes under the user name "carbking" who seems know a lot about these carbs. Also, I do wonder why you want to go to 12V, as when everything is correct, 6V works fine for a stock car. If you're adding extra accessories, then you'd need to go to 12V. The '41's are great cars to drive and own! Show us some pictures! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daves1940Buick56S Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I got a DC-DC 6 to 12V converter on Amazon for about 10 bucks. 3 amps so it'll do anything small like a modern radio. It's about 2 inches square, very small. They also had a 10 amp model, a little larger and about $20 if you need more current. Still cheaper and easier than converting the whole car. Cheers, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 My old rule of thumb, 1,000 bucks a hole for a restoration level engine job usually holds true. I figure the R&R and all the things you do during the whole process. It is never the straight forward job of bearings, rings, and valves. My V6 Park Ave left home with a bad 3.8 and came back $6,000 later. The subframe was imroned, transmission rebuilt, lots of engine management parts, and little details everywhere.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Bernie, what does "imroned" mean ?? Haven't run across that before. Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) I think he meant Imron. It is a paint made by Dupont. Dandy Dave! Edited June 28, 2015 by Dandy Dave (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 (edited) Yep, Imroned is our way of saying we squirted the DuPont Imron paint. It is an especially durable two part paint. Here is a picture of the subframe: The paint, primer, and hardener probably ate up most of a hundred dollar bill. There were about 2 to 3 hours of cleaning and prep time plus at least another hour of spraying. That car uses a special motor mount and I think it was something like $120. Then the new struts; and, as long as we did the front, we did the rears. The car looked a little squatty so I put new springs in. My point is that there are so many interrelated parts and detail a job can easily exceed an informed budget and greatly exceed the "wave of the hand" estimate. I had a 1959 Cadillac come in for a brake job once. In total, the owner asked for and we came across 27 more jobs ranging from windshield wipers not working to new heater and radiator hoses, each done with prior approval. When presented with the final bill (I invoiced T&M weekly) his comment was "That is a lot for a brake job." We even fixed his horn! The logic of a car that just needs an engine rebuild doesn't work well. All the parts wear out together. I just got back from a 100 mile drive with that convertible today. It performs pretty good and looks good. Another $2,000 to $3,000 in some more details and I will be satisfied.Bernie Edited June 28, 2015 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I seem to recall I spent about $7500 on the rebuild of the engine in my '41 Century about six years ago. That included insert bearings in the rods, a replacement front cover with a neoprene seal instead of the rope seal, and a custom-ground cam. I paid an additional $400 to another vendor to rebuild the carburetors. And as long as you have it out, have the flywheel resurfaced and put in a fresh clutch. And the advice about being careful with those manifolds is excellent. I had my exhaust manifolds magnafluxed and they are both cracked along the machined pad where the heat risers bolt to the intake manifold, which is common. The factory machined a hard corner here and that's a recipe for cracks. I haven't decided yet how to fix it, perhaps welding it or even brazing it. It's probably been that way for decades, but I want to make sure it doesn't get worse. Why the conversion to 12V? If you're running a fairly stock car, the 6V system will work just fine and cause you fewer headaches than a conversion. I have only seen one 12V conversion on a car that's passed through my hands that I thought was properly done and fully functional. The rest all have gremlins. If you don't need 12 volts, leave the stock electrical system as-is and make sure it's in top condition and you won't have problems. Hope this helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danhar1960 Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Ta guys. Learning all the time !! Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Michael, I just had the 320 compleatly rebuilt for the 37 Roadmaster. The rebuild included new oversize pistons/rings, valves, valve guides, rod machining for inserts, crank grinding for new bearings, cam grinding, boaring for oversize pistons and rings, planing the head and manafolds as required and all other various work needed. The carb rebuild was only a single 2 barrel stromberg (?sp). The rebuilder is a local man who will only do quality / exceptional work. If you ask him to cut a corner he will ask you to take your work to someone else, period. I am exceptionally happy with the work done and have no complaints at all. Now for the price... $7000.00 + a little and I would do it again with no hesitation for the quality of the work. My rebuilder did everything. I simply delivered the motor and picked it up. The price is a little on the high side, but I honestly feel I got what I paid for including the factory green paint I supplied . If you are in the Northwest and would like the contact info for my rebuilder, feel free to PM me and I will get back to you. I did not alter the factory electrical system so I am no help with that part of your question. Just my 2 cents, leave the electrical system origional, it works fine as built. RobinThanks Robin, wish your garage was in the lower Midwest. I keep coming up with about $8,000-9,000. Doesn't make my wife all that happy but I can live with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 My old rule of thumb, 1,000 bucks a hole for a restoration level engine job usually holds true. I figure the R&R and all the things you do during the whole process. It is never the straight forward job of bearings, rings, and valves. My V6 Park Ave left home with a bad 3.8 and came back $6,000 later. The subframe was imroned, transmission rebuilt, lots of engine management parts, and little details everywhere.Bernie$1,000 bucks a hole seems about right. Will wait to see what the compression check says, may get lucky. Not counting on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Yep, Imroned is our way of saying we squirted the DuPont Imron paint. It is an especially durable two part paint. Here is a picture of the subframe:0922111915.jpg The paint, primer, and hardener probably ate up most of a hundred dollar bill. There were about 2 to 3 hours of cleaning and prep time plus at least another hour of spraying. That car uses a special motor mount and I think it was something like $120. Then the new struts; and, as long as we did the front, we did the rears. The car looked a little squatty so I put new springs in. My point is that there are so many interrelated parts and detail a job can easily exceed an informed budget and greatly exceed the "wave of the hand" estimate. I had a 1959 Cadillac come in for a brake job once. In total, the owner asked for and we came across 27 more jobs ranging from windshield wipers not working to new heater and radiator hoses, each done with prior approval. When presented with the final bill (I invoiced T&M weekly) his comment was "That is a lot for a brake job." We even fixed his horn! The logic of a car that just needs an engine rebuild doesn't work well. All the parts wear out together. I just got back from a 100 mile drive with that convertible today. It performs pretty good and looks good. Another $2,000 to $3,000 in some more details and I will be satisfied. Well, of course, with a 75 year old car, an engine rebuild is just the start but that's the point, got to start someplace. But it's likely (hopefully) the single biggest expense and before I commit these old bones to this kind of a project I wanted to know if I was going to need a marriage counselor before I was done. Edited July 1, 2015 by MichaelRyerson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 I seem to recall I spent about $7500 on the rebuild of the engine in my '41 Century about six years ago. That included insert bearings in the rods, a replacement front cover with a neoprene seal instead of the rope seal, and a custom-ground cam. I paid an additional $400 to another vendor to rebuild the carburetors. And as long as you have it out, have the flywheel resurfaced and put in a fresh clutch. And the advice about being careful with those manifolds is excellent. I had my exhaust manifolds magnafluxed and they are both cracked along the machined pad where the heat risers bolt to the intake manifold, which is common. The factory machined a hard corner here and that's a recipe for cracks. I haven't decided yet how to fix it, perhaps welding it or even brazing it. It's probably been that way for decades, but I want to make sure it doesn't get worse. Why the conversion to 12V? If you're running a fairly stock car, the 6V system will work just fine and cause you fewer headaches than a conversion. I have only seen one 12V conversion on a car that's passed through my hands that I thought was properly done and fully functional. The rest all have gremlins. If you don't need 12 volts, leave the stock electrical system as-is and make sure it's in top condition and you won't have problems. Hope this helps!The 12v is not chipped in stone but I am going to resist building a points car. This will be a driver, pure and simple. I'll likely go 6v, with a new harness and generator to begin with but may opt for an electric fan, electronic ignition and maybe even a little ac (I live in Houston). We'll see. Appreciate all the great advice and insight from you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Wife? Here she is at 21. I sure ain't gonna get her the wash my car again. I just checked my pocket and found $103 and a couple of dimes. She took the rest. (except for a couple of tin cans in the garage that I showed my son). All I have is the cars, what's a fella to do.Bernie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all the responses. I appreciate it. Fortunately, someone showed up and bought the Century out from under me. Mike Waller assures me it went to a good, Buick home. I was ready to take it on if no one else came along, in fact, had a deal in place and a check written when this guy showed up. Good luck to him. I went ahead with the Canadian car, a Special sedanette, an all original, U.S. built, dual carb car. Turns out the seller has a load of experience shipping cars into the U.S. and so he will help with the customs forms and getting the car to Houston. I'll post some pics when I take delivery around the 1st of August. Thanks again to everyone. Edited July 7, 2015 by MichaelRyerson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted July 7, 2015 Share Posted July 7, 2015 My sentiments exactly! Back "in the day" an engine with 60,000 miles or so USUALLY only received rings and bearings. Complete rebuilds were rare. At least in my neck of the woods. Bad valve? Grind it. Maybe all, maybe not. Go on and drive the car another 40,000 or 50,000 miles. I did that to my cars and for others. There were exceptions, but they were just that. Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) My sentiments exactly! Back "in the day" an engine with 60,000 miles or so USUALLY only received rings and bearings. Complete rebuilds were rare. At least in my neck of the woods. Bad valve? Grind it. Maybe all, maybe not. Go on and drive the car another 40,000 or 50,000 miles. I did that to my cars and for others. There were exceptions, but they were just that. BenIsn't this so funny, Ben? This is exactly what we were talking about this afternoon. Ha. Great. Edited July 8, 2015 by MichaelRyerson (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37_Roadmaster_C Posted July 8, 2015 Share Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Being the one to spend thousands on a rebuild I will address this issue with my thoughts... My phaeton is actually my fathers college car and he wants to drive the car again while his health is with him. Dad is 87 and really doing very well. This car will NOT be a "show car", but will be driven on a regular basis. Dad plans to drive it daily except for bad weather and winter. We hope to eventually drive it to a national show (Allentown?) and / or the AACA nationals. Now this car is being restored to be reliable and road worthy. The motor had much wear and needed boring, pistons, bearings and all the other normal high mileage wear items. If it had been a low mileage normal compression motor a simple hone and ring job would have been fine. As it was, we felt the better decision was to do the job REALLY right and do it once. I would be very upset if we did a fixer up job and threw a rod 5000 miles later and 3000 miles from home. Now please don't get me wrong, I am not discounting saving money for a less demanding vehicle use, but our plan is to drive this car like my dad did in 1950 when he was a young man from a boat racing family..... We plan to give a Century a run for the roses.... Best to all,Robin Edited July 8, 2015 by 37_Roadmaster_C (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
37_Roadmaster_C Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Imperial62, Thank you for your kind reply . I do understand saving money or redirecting money to more demanding needs. This car does meet the 'long family ownership' case. The car was purchased used in about 1947 by my grandfather for my father for a hearty sum of $75.00. Yes seventy five dollars, so we really do not need to wory about the acquisition cost... The car had some rearend dammage, trunk, fenders and bumper etc... Dads brother was working at a Ford dealership at the time in the body shop and was able to patch her up. Dad drove the car to college at the University of Washington until he graduated in 1954. He then enlisted in the army and the car was put into dry storage until 2 years ago. Now we are puting this rare beast on the road for his enjoyment and mine. Hopefully others will also be able to have a ride and appreciate the wind in their hair in a 37 classic... Enough highjacking of the OP's thread. Best to all and simply enjoy your Buicks and/or other classics... Robin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelRyerson Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 You guys can highjack my thread anytime. In the end it turned out to be worthwhile and informative (at least for me). Thanks. Matt got me into this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now