BearsFan315 Posted October 5, 2020 Author Share Posted October 5, 2020 talked with my engine shop friday, and he said he was in the midst of working on it ?? could it be ? or was it a hoax said he was installing pistons and such, but having an issue, said got 1 in and everything turns smooth and freely, then when he puts in the second one, it locks up ?!? i went down the question list, clearances, gaps, etc. everything in the correct direction, etc... so hopefully he will have it all together in a few weeks, i told him i want it completed by the end of October, and done right & professionally. we will see what happens 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 10, 2020 Author Share Posted October 10, 2020 engine rebuilder called me yesterday with a few questions/concerns. thought i would post here for feedback/thoughts: 1-camshaft timing gear keyway i bought a NORS fiber one from TFS. however the keyway in it is approx 5/32 wide where as the keyway in the cam and the existing cam gear are 3/16 wide. so was wondering if we need to widen keyway in the gear or was the original one opened up to 3/16 somewhere long the line. or what are our options 2-crank gear condition has some side wear that should be irrelevant, looks like the slinger was loose at one time and grooved the front face of the gear. The main concern is that it looks like someone used a 2 jaw puller to pull the gear off at one time. There are 2 small chips on 2 of the gear teeth. does NOT look major but he would like to put on a new NOS or NORS gear if available. if not sure we could reuse it, i can get pictures if needed. 3- crank gear spacing/gap, what is the gap / spacing on hte crank gear or should it just align with the cam gear once set ?? 3-camshaft gear washer/spacing. camshaft has been reground and ready for install. On the install the cam goes in, then the new thrust plate bolts on. question was there is a .003 clearance. engine builder was asking the proper method for setting the clearance for pressing on the cam gear. he was thinking of using a washer on the shaft behind the cam gear. but was wondering how it should be done on these older 194. he has done 216 & 235s 4-crank pulley fitment. assume that the crank gear pulley is a press fit, however mine is barely a slip fit. what tis the proper id of the pulley and od of the shaft ? thought was to find another pulley if the shaft is ok, or sleeving the pulley to press fit on the exiting shaft. but assume it would have to be a split sleeve for the keyway. 5-crankgear flinger does it sit loose on the shaft or ?? i know that the open end of the flinger, since it is a cup shape goes up against the ring on the timing cover since it spins freely. should the back of the flinger sit flush against the crank gear. the key on the crankshaft spins the flinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 1929 Crankshaft Gear - Condition working with the engine rebuilder and he is asking if the crankcase gear should be replaced, or could i just reuse it ? it looks pretty good, however somewhere in its life someone pulled it off with a 2 jaw puller and made a few indentions in the end of the teeth and sheared a little material off one of them, and a chip on another. i was able to take a few pictures of the gear. also on the front face, there are some wear marks from the oil thrower, as it must have been loose in the cover and been spinning around and wearing on itself and the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 12, 2020 Author Share Posted October 12, 2020 1929 Crankshaft Oil Thrower got a few shots of the oil thrower that gets sandwiched between the crankshaft gear and the crankshaft pulley. you can see the matching wear on the one face that was against the gear. it was not held in place, as the pulley was loose on the shaft and was allowed to walk. does this looks like it can be cleaned up ? flatten the inside lip, so that it sits flat & flush in between the gear & pulley. then ensure that when it is in the cover that the outer edge (large OD) does NOT rub on the inside face of the timing cover. i know there it a free spinning ring in there. should or does this thrower rest on or ride on that free spinning ring ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 (edited) Looks like the oil thrower is not too bad, but if you can source a new timing gear then I would seriously think about it (otherwise just make sure surfaces are parallel). Edited October 12, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 worked on the oil thrower, used my press to flatten outer the inner and get it square. looks a lot better now, need to test fit it to make sure it will work, or tweak it some more. as for the Crankshaft gear, found a few online used, but they are badly pitted and/or worn. the one i have is in far better shape then any that I could find. I may have a lead, Gary Wallace said he had some reproductions made a while back and may have one laying around. he is gonna look and see then let me know. if i have to use this one will have it cleaned up and make sure all the gears are true and no shape or distorted edges. good thing it goes up against a softer fiber gear so once it seats against the gear should be a smooth ride, as the fiber will distort to the shape to the gear it is riding against. as long as the clearance is god, should not be any issues. the crankshaft gear will ride on 2 gears on the fiber gear since it is a 2:1 ratio 52 teeth to 26 teeth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 20, 2020 Author Share Posted October 20, 2020 went back to the rebuilder on friday to go over plan of action he is going to broach the cam gear keyway and ensure it is centered to keep timing aligned, i was able to get a new crankshaft gear from Gary W, he had a batch made a while back and had one on the shelf, ended up working the oil thrower in the press and on the bench to get it back into shape for reuse, he is going to use the shim method to set the cam gear and ensure alignment with the crankshaft gear. we are going to bore out the crankshaft pulley and then make a sleeve to ensure a press fit onto the crankshaft. i need to drop off the timing cover gasket so that he can put the front together once the gear & pulley are ready. this way he can validate clearances. should be in the next few weeks depending on time it takes to machine the gear & pulley. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 dropped off the timing cover gasket and hardware this morning with the builder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 21, 2021 Author Share Posted January 21, 2021 got a call from the rebuilder last night as he had a few questions, so went by this morning before work to take a look and see what we could do.he pressed on the NOS Cam Gear i had, and the holes in the cam gear to tighten the bolts on the camshaft thrust plate was wider offset, not enough room to get the required bolts in there and NO clearance to tighten them up if you finagled them in. so opted to enlarge the holes to allow access. bolts go in, can tighten them down, but can not turn the cam, because the bolt heads rub and hit the backside of the cam gear. seems that this cam gear has a larger shoulder/raise area on the rear then the original. the shoulder/raised area is nearly as wide as the gear. so machining the head down would barely leave any head on the bolt, machining back the shoulder/raise area on the back of the gear to clear the bolt head i feel would compromise the gear as a whole.options are to find another fiber gear with a smaller shoulder/raised area, or try the aluminum aftermarket one which has a smaller shoulder/raised area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted January 22, 2021 Share Posted January 22, 2021 Sometimes parts are just crazy. They fit in all places but one and it makes you think didn’t others have the same problem and why did the manufacturers make them like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, chistech said: Sometimes parts are just crazy. They fit in all places but one and it makes you think didn’t others have the same problem and why did the manufacturers make them like that. yeah, the engine builder says it looks like it was made for another application, and when Steve from TFS called me today he said the same thing, based on the size & location of the holes for access to the cam thrust plate. too far out and way too small. He said he looked at 2 others he had in stock and they are correct, they have a nice recess and 2 larger holes spaced closer together. so he asked me to ship this one back and he would swap it out. always good customer service from them. he even offered to get it in the mail today if i needed ASAP and to keep the builder going. The engine builder said the aluminum cam gear (bought one when they were first released) fit like a glove and not a single issue at all installing it. so we are going with that. Edited January 23, 2021 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 23, 2021 Author Share Posted January 23, 2021 Talked to the engine builder this afternoon, he said that they got the gears lined up and all set. installed the front cover and gasket. and then heated up the crank pulley and tried to press it on, and sopped half way. they had to pull it back off and doing so broke out the new bushing they had machined and put in there dues to the sloppy loose fit. he thinks they did not HONE it enough and need a looser fit then what they were initially aiming for. also may have been an issue with dissimilar metals expanding and contracting at different rates. i figure it should be a press fit, tap it on or heat up a tad and slide on, not much heat should be needed. so they are going to machine a new one, hone it to fir the crankshaft again, and try once more. i am thinking to avoid any concerns or issues with the bushing coming out if the pulley is removed, would be to bevel the inside of the pulley bore and the outside of the bushing then bevel weld them together once bushing is installed in the pulley. then grind weld down, hone to bushing bore to fit, key bushing/pulley, install. the two should never part. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 (edited) for those interested, here are some pictures of the NORS vs the Original out of the 1929 Engine Dimensions for you dimensionally inclined: DIM............................ORI...........NORS ------------------------------------- OD.............................5.94...........5.94 Bore..........................0.87............0.87 THICK.......................0.88............0.86 BOLT HOLES.............1.11..............0.65 DIST BC.....................3.12............2.79 FRNT DEPTH.............0.12TPR.....0.20 FRNT SHOULDER......ANGLE.......2.00 REAR DEPTH..............0.40...........0.28 REAR SHOULDER......2.00............2.31Shoulders are top flat only, does not include the radii top of gear views Edited January 26, 2021 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 back of gears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted January 26, 2021 Author Share Posted January 26, 2021 Stacked for Comparison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 Well it has been awhile... a few random phone calls back and forth with engine shop what was needed, what was being done, etc... Last week he called me on Wednesday and said he had my pulley back and all he had to do was install it and then machine my manifold faces. so i was excited, however Friday came and went and nothing. then this past Friday, he called and asked if i would be around on Saturday, and i said yes, no plans. he said great, he was finishing up the machining in the morning and i could come pick it up !! Saturday afternoon around 2pm he called and said he had it ready to go !! so away i went to the engine shop, with my punch list in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 Got to the shop , they were closed, but he was working. we went down the list and over the parts, and what was done along with the bill. they did a great job from what i can see, other than the timeline. he said they were swamped and actually were turning business away as they can NOT catch up. one out 3 or more in. so they are pushing back till they get caught up and projects out the door. Wrapped up the block, as it was raining that morning, and showers in the forecast anytime. He helped me load it up, and then we BS'd for a bit about old cars, engines, and whatever... yes that is a 194 inline 6 Cylinder in that heavy duty black plastic or so i hope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 the flywheel was machined and ground, however they said they did not have a way to do the pressure plate, so will be making a few calls this week to see what i can find out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 manifolds were machined, had them machine the mating surfaces, any surface that was being gasketed and bolted up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 (edited) then the main attraction, looks really good inside, will need to clean up the outside and then prime and paint it up. crank was magnafluxed, turned and ground, same for the camshaft, they had to build up the fuel pump lobe. block was decked and then bored & honed .030" over, installed set of NORS Pistons, pins onto my rebabbitted connecting rods. mains were also rebabbitted and then align bored. Edited June 27, 2021 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 few closeup of the crankshaft and mains. cleaned up and can see the casting numbers and markings !! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 few random markings on the bottom flange of the engine where the oil pan gasket seats. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 27, 2021 Author Share Posted June 27, 2021 ready to start putting the engine back together and then back in the car. i know this will require a lot of questions, and assistance/guidance from all of you. I took a ton of photos and notes on disassembly but want to make certain that I putting it ack together correctly. I figured once my storage shelf and bench are empty of parts, the car is complete, once again. if there is a part on the shelf then i forgot something and you know what that means. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 (edited) First step i figured would be to get in the lube lines, this includes the oil distribution block, oil pump, and feed lines, lower & upper. numbered in the order of operation/assembly, let me know if i should flip or flop any of them 1-how do you set the oil pump to the correct depth/setting for the distributor and all ? ...my thought was to install and set the distributor, then install the oil pump up to it and secure it in place. i assume there is some spacing between the two or do they fit up against each other. then main feed line from discharge of oil pump connects to the block port to feed the oil distribution block Edited June 28, 2021 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 2- installing the feed lines ...i know that the center distribution on the side feed lines connects to the inside of the block, there the copper tubing is set. see attached photos. then the 2 trough feed blocks that fee the troughs connect to the end of the short tubes, and screws into the block from the inside, there are also 2 places that tube clamps screw to the inside of the block to hold the lines in place. ...is there a washer or anything that goes in between the copper tube in the block and the center distribution block that connects to it ?? ...how does it stay in place other then press on fit and the clamps that hold the tubing to the block ? the two main tubes feed the oil reservoirs at each end of the block for the front main and the rear main the two short tubes feed the trough feed blocks that feed the troughs, so tubes will be adjusted to direct oil to the dipper troughs in the pan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 feed lines end up and feed main bearing oil reservoirs here 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 28, 2021 Author Share Posted June 28, 2021 3- installing the oil distribution valve ...i know there is a gasket that goes between the oil distribution valve and the block & a copper crush washer that goes on the thread on end where the valve is and the feed line to the oil pressure gauge attaches ...one screw/bolt that goes through center of oil distribution valve into the block to secure it in place. ...anything else that i am missing ?? ...the top connection on the oil distribution valve is the low side that has a small tube that goes up through the block between cylinder 3 & 4 and then feeds the rocker arm shafts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 Last night spent some time cleaning up the oil feed lines and components, as well as installing the oil pump. 1- Installed and set the rebuilt oil pump. I used my rebuilt distributor and thrust washer to assist in locating and setting the oil pump in the block. checked and doubled checked that everything was set and mated up. distributor gear seats and sets on the cam gear nicely, and distributor drops in and engages the oil pump shaft and drives it when cam turns. installed the oil pump discharge line that goes to the block and feeds hte center main as well as the oil distribution valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 (edited) 2- rough set the feed lines in place for test fitment and alignment of the feed tubes. the removed everything and going to do a thorough cleaning of all the feed line components befroe installing. Edited June 29, 2021 by BearsFan315 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 3- did a test fit off the oil distribution valve, then removed it and tore it down and doing a thorough cleaning of it. making sure to be careful with the spring valve section, does not look they are available out there, so do not want to destroy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted June 29, 2021 Author Share Posted June 29, 2021 here is where we sit right now... will clean up the components and get everything installed and set. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted July 1, 2021 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Looking really good Jerry. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 got a few Dippers from a friend over on VCCA, 2 of mine are busted and the dipper is lose and flops around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 decided throw them in a batch of EvapoRust overnight and see what happens. got up and took them out and bammm, remembering why i love this stuff. used it a ton on parts over my restoration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 went to work on my oil feed lines, since i have the coper crush washers for them. took my time laid them out then set them up. put in new hardware as well. then lined up the dipper feeders and ensured they were lines up correctly. then tightened everything down. i am still waiting on some 1/4" copper crush washers before i can tighten down the dipper troughs in place. front main feed lined up rear main feed lined up front dipper troughs lined up rear dipper troughs lined up 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 3, 2021 Author Share Posted July 3, 2021 now on to the oil distribution valve. looking at the gasket, seems to be a universal one, so will have to trim off the excess. mainly the large opening in the "L". compared to my 1929 oil distribution valve. next questions, is what are the 2 round washers for ?? i know there is one that goes inside the oil distribution valve, that would the the thinnest one. but does it go on the oil distribution valve side (LEFT of manual sketch) of the valve or the copper screw inset (RIGHT of manual sketch) ?? or one on both sides ?? the other 2 may round washers be for another year as well and i not need them. gasket set oil distribution valve assembly valve portion manual sketch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 Assembled the Oil Distributor Valve and installed it this morning. First i Test fit everything, then assembled and tightened them in place. New Valve Gasket, New Copper Crush Washer. Now ready to install on the block. Oil Distributor Valve parts laid out in order of assembly Gasket installed New Copper Crush Washer and Brass Inset for Valve Oil Distributor Valve rough assembly Oil Distributor Valve Assembled front side Oil Distributor Valve Assembled rear side Oil Distributor Valve Test Fit on Block Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 New Gasket & New Copper Crush Washer, installed the Oil Distributor Valve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 4, 2021 Author Share Posted July 4, 2021 installed the oil filter screen and about 95% complete on the oil feed side, just waiting for the 2 1/4" copper crush washers to arrive 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearsFan315 Posted July 7, 2021 Author Share Posted July 7, 2021 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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