1929 Chevrolet International - 4 Door Sedan Project

[BearsFan315]

well since it was a quiet day today, not much going on... government got us all on restriction

i lined up and then drilled out the pin hole to .1875" (3/16") this is the next size ready available pin. I ordered a package of 1095 steel 3/16" spring pins, since they are .187-.192" and should be a nice press fit and hold everything together.

fresh drilled and cleaned up shaft pin hole

 

rotary head all drilled and cleaned up

 

[Jllu]

Nice job! I like it! I have a question too. Do you know where do I may get center medallions for front and rear bumper? I have rest of the parts only missing medallions. Thank You

[BearsFan315]

15 hours ago, Jllu said:

Nice job! I like it! I have a question too. Do you know where do I may get center medallions for front and rear bumper? I have rest of the parts only

missing medallions. Thank You

Check with

Gary Wallace in Missouri
.....Website:Early Chevrolet Parts
.....Phone:(314) 293-1991

 

I got my new cap bolts and end bolts from him, and when talking to him he had replacement medallions. 3 on front, 2 small (1 on left, one on right) and 1 large in center, has lips on the top and bottom where it extends past the top/bottom of bumper to hold. uses bolts, large washers and nuts to secure to bumper. Only 1 medallion on rear bumper, per side. (1 left & 1 right). both have ridges on the backside to slide and hold in bumper grooves. also has special bracket to hold them on plus bolt, washer, nut.

think in total 3 different medallions.

I got my chrome carriage bolts from Allen's Fasteners cheaper than anyone else & quick shipping !!

Edited May 7, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BearsFan315]

thinking about it this morning, i should be able to test the pumps without the engine ? figure using my priming tool and 12v drill like normal. just use a small container, fill with a quart or so of oil, then stick in the suction tube, route the discharge tube back into the container, to cycle the oil. then pull trigger on drill and pump should suck and move oil ?!?

 

is this logical and make sense ?? maybe use some scrap wood to build a stand to make it easier vs trying to hold everything

think i will try this in the next day or two time permitting. 

[BearsFan315]

well got a text from the guy at the machine shop a week or so ago, and he said he was making progress. looks like they were doing the line bore

 

 

[BearsFan315]

thought i would post a few pictures of the completed oil pump for my 1929

 

 

 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

here are a few of the spare oil pump i did as well.

 

 

 

[BearsFan315]

i really wanted to test the pump before installing it on the car and then find out it does not work. so i came up with a test platform to test it

cost me $0 and took me about 15 minutes to set up. used some scrap wood i had lying around in the scrap pile and used a 1x6 and drilled a 1" hole in the center, then sanded it out until the oil pump would slide it with a tight fit. used my foil pan 8x8 that i sue to change the oil in my generator as the oil pan reservoir.  grabbed some scrap 2x4's out hte pile and stacked them up until the oil pump suction tube barely was above the foil pan. (no oil yet) then used 2 scrap 2x4 wedges to angle the foil pan for quick oil return to suction. sued a scrap piece of tubing i had laying around, as i wanted to be able to SEE the oil coming out of the pump discharge. found a piece that fit snug on the threads on the discharge tube connector. did a dry run of oil pump, i use my 12v cordless drill to do this, same one i sue to prime the pump when on the car. Low is 400 RPM and high is 1200 rpm so well with in the range of the car itself !! no over driving the pump by any means. made sure everything moved freely, everything was set and workable. poured in a quart of fresh oil in the pan, used the wedges to keep the pool of oil at the pump suction (one corner of the foil pan) then adjusted the pump so it was a tad above the bottom of the foil pan. and away we went, i held onto the pump the first few spins to make sure it did not airplane propeller on me !! took a few seconds and then primed right up and away we went. had a nice steady stream of oil coming out of the pump.  I was really surprised at how much oil it actually pumps, the flow was crazy.  

 

Yeah i know my setup was primitive, BUT it served its purpose and the pump works !!  so i bagged it and tagged it to go back in the engine when it returns !!

 

I also tested the spare i built and same results, so i am happy.

 

Primitive Oil Pump Test Stand

 

 

[BearsFan315]

also shot a few videos...

 

Here is basic test on LOW @ 400 RPM

 

[BearsFan315]

Here is same basic test on LOW @ 400 RPM but with close up of oil coming out of tube

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[GARY F]

Very nice. Good test

[BearsFan315]

i did shoot a high 1200 rpm video during my test, here it is:

 

 

can see the oil pump start to turn with the rotation near the end, but no mess

Edited May 11, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

Talked about this a few times, and I am now going to venture into fabricating a mold and trying to have some reproduced. Not sure what they are Technically called per the MPPL ? or the part number.

I looked back through my pictures and found a shop from the PO that shows the Pedal Seals. but i can NOT find them anywhere in my stash. luckily beachbum graciously provided a picture he had as well. since i am waiting on my engine to get back from the shop, and not much else on the car to rebuild right now, figured i would try this out.

My plan is to sketch them out, then 3d print one and do a test fit, hopefully get the shape and concept down and then will get a mold made and then have a few sets produced.

Have a few questions, since i can not find my set, really need to get some dimensions and general data about them.

1-were these 1929 only or other years as well ??

2-left and right the same, just mirror images or two totally different designs??

3-they look to be made of a rubber, are they soft (floppy soft like silicone), hard (not very pliable), or medium (like a standard rubber window gasket)??

4-seem to have a metal plate inside, is this a SOLID metal plate, or a wire mesh of the sorts ?? how thick the the metal ? is it one piece of metal or a few sheets with separation/rubber in between.

5-how much robber overrun is there on the metal. how much robber after the metal.

6-dimensions dimensions, dimensions... basic opening, size, shape, corners.

7-looks like 10-24 bolts were used to hold them in, or were they 1/4-20 ?? looks to be flat head slotted, assume they go all the way through with a washer and nut on the backside. and they go through the upper and lower plates on the toe/floor boards.

assume they do NOT seal the hole, but more so fill it in some, did the rubber touch the pedals ?? was slot basically the same size and shape that the upper& lower plates leave when put together ??

any other details, information would be appreciated. also if anyone is already making these or know someone who is, let me know !! i would like a set or two.

 

 

[BearsFan315]

did a sketch based off the pictures i have, and digitizing the upper & lower pedal plates.

i then 3d printed a prototype out, printed one with a larger opening, as i was uncertain if the PLA (material i am 3d printing) would snap when i tried to flex it around a pedal shaft. luckily it did not, so i marked it up drilled a few holes, and seems to fit pretty nice on the plates. the white area is where the seal is smaller than the opening of the plates.

i am happy with my first prototype, once i can get true dimensions from someone with one in hand, i can adjust accordingly. they  are currently scaled off the pictures.

i want to make sure i keep some meat (material) between the openings, and considering there is a metal plate in there as well, need to make sure there is rubber all around the metal as well to cover and coat it. want the metal fully encapsulated in rubber, so the pedals rub on rubber if they rub.
 

both prototypes side by side

 

finished prototype with holes located and drilled

 

prototype laid over the upper and lower pedal plates

 

close up

 

prototype under the plates to show difference in opening, plates vs prototype

[Bloo]

Looking good! Do they go on top or underneath? Is there something on the pedal shaft itself that seals the holes when the pedals are up?

[BearsFan315]

Did some digging in the MPPL and found it !! thanks for the hints VCCA Member beachbum 😛 did some random searches for 3 digits the 194 found it

 

looks like it was a 1929 year only thing, it is listed in my 1929, 1929-1930, and 1929-1932 MPPL but only for the 1929

 

Plate, Toe Board Pedal (Rubber)............................356194
Flat Head Stove Bolt with Nut (No. 10x5/8")........107768
Plain Washer (3/16")..............................................106260
Lockwasher (No. 10)..............................................106497

Edited May 15, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

14 minutes ago, Bloo said:

Looking good! Do they go on top or underneath? Is there something on the pedal shaft itself that seals the holes when the pedals are up?

 

they would go on top...

nothing that i know of on the pedal shaft, but a good thought

 

sad thing is there are very few people that actually have these on there car, most were destroyed, removed, lost, etc....

i was thinking about making a true repro set, then a modified set, that looks the same but fill in the open section with a thin rubber, and have a slit in it, so the shaft slides int eh slit, closing it off a little more.

[chistech]

Great job Gerry. We have to make things like this when they’re not available. It’s one of the most satisfying things when you make a reproduction part that one one has. The crazy thing is when you offer it to others, they’ll buy a pair as long as they’re free and you pay the shipping to them! Joe and I have discovered this with all the Olds parts we have reproduced. Hard to understand some guys in this hobby.

[John_Mereness]

On 5/14/2020 at 8:26 PM, chistech said:

Great job Gerry. We have to make things like this when they’re not available. It’s one of the most satisfying things when you make a reproduction part that one one has. The crazy thing is when you offer it to others, they’ll buy a pair as long as they’re free and you pay the shipping to them! Joe and I have discovered this with all the Olds parts we have reproduced. Hard to understand some guys in this hobby.

Pretty common issues.  There is a flip side of the coin too - I had a fellow call me regarding making a part and I said probably a good seller and he asked me what I thought people would pay and I said 600 to 650.  He said he wanted to recover his costs and he could probably swing 1,400 or so.  Well, I had the priced priced out a couple years back for 750 and thought that too high.  When I suggested working with my contacts there were 100 excuses.   Bottom line is the part will probably will not get made - and that is unfortunate. 

[chistech]

22 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Pretty common issues.  There is a flip side of the coin too - I had a fellow call me regarding making a part and I said probably a good seller and he asked me what I thought people would pay and I said 600 to 650.  He said he wanted to recover his costs and he could probably swing 1,400 or so.  Well, I had the priced priced out a couple years back for 750 and thought that too high.  When I suggested working with my contacts there were 100 excuses.   Bottom line is the part will probably will not get made - and that is unfortunate. 

Had a gentleman contact me because he had seen the mold we had made for the 32’ Olds. He mentioned that there were Many people who wanted the part that he wanted to mold. I explained the costs associated with making a mold and suggested that he get at least four of the many people And have them all invest equal amounts into the project. Of course I’ve never heard back so it’s easy to assume the “many” probably ended up being only the person who inquired. Once people realized the cost and investment they all of a sudden don’t need the part that badly.

[BearsFan315]

just to share, here is the latest concept 1929 Pedal Seal Prototype D.1

using the photos provided as well as input back from cabboy think we have narrowed down the shape, based on the metal inset he cut out, and the rubber shape overall.

the metal plate is sealed and embedded in the rubber, and is not present where the cut will go (the slit in the top) looks like a large offset "C"
seems both the left and right are the same piece, as they are chamfered on both sides, so you just flip it over.

feedback, questions, thoughts are welcome...

i am going to try and do a 3d print of the metal inset tonight and test fit on my 1929, as well as print out a full size seal (as seen below) for fitment and spacing.

 

3d CAD of Protoype D.1 Top Side

 

3d CAD of Protoype D.1 Bottom Side

[BearsFan315]

ok, so did a 3d print of the inset of Pedal Seal Prototype D.1

 

came out pretty nice 1/32" thick, same as steel inset

 

holes line up, and it mates up to both the rubber outside and the pedal plates

 

 

 

 

[BearsFan315]

also did a 3d print of the rubber of Pedal Seal Prototype D.1

 

came out pretty nice .26" thick, same as measured on current rubber sample

 

holes line up, and it mates up to both the metal inset outside and the pedal plates

 

 

 

 

[BearsFan315]

did a test fit of a standard #10 flat head slotted screw, which is what holds this to the pedal plates

 

the chamfer is dead on, the screw head sits flush with the top of the rubber

 

 

[BearsFan315]

here are a few of the metal inset next to the rubber body prototypes

 

also side by side on the pedal plates, metal inset on the left, rubber on the right.

 

 

[BearsFan315]

question now, is since these are pretty thick, once you install them, IF you try to use the rubber floor mat, then it would bulge around these seals. and not sit flat on the floor. 

[BearsFan315]

yeah another issue, getting them to work together

a few shots of the rubber mat around the pedals in my 1929

 

 

 

 

[BearsFan315]

ok, started design of the mold for these seals...

going to be a standard 2 part mold, parting line will be right down the middle if laying flat. bottom half will have extended pins, which are the holes, and line up with the top half which will not have pins, but have through holes for the pins to go in and line up the part. not sure if i should add a third or fourth line pin outside the mold are for alignment. going to pour with the item standing up vertically, and use a 3/16" vent hole next to a 3/16" pour hole with a 3/4" lead in funnel. this should allow me to get material in all areas, vent our any air, and not leave any voids. the metal inset will sit on the pins dead center (float). metal should fit snug on the pins. going to pour using a polyurethane 60. so should be soft but sturdy, supposed to be pretty viscous to pour easily !! we shall find out.

 

any thoughts or comments let me know. 

 

thinking i may move the vent to dead center, or the fill to dead center ?? i know it will need to be trimmed when removed, but that is ok. its rubber

[BearsFan315]

also have quotes out for rubber, and for cutting the insets.

 

looking at doing 6 sets up front, for testing, that would be 12 of everything.

 

hoping i can get 12 rubber pours out of the rubber batch. 

 

looking at a cost of approx: $25 per seal, or $50 per set for materials only no labor charges. Geesh....

[chistech]

Jerry, don’t have the metal tight on the pins as it won’t release from the mold easily. We put metal into our parts and experimented with different things to get it right. A slightly larger hole will rest on the beveled area of the screw hole pin and will allow for it to separate easier. Joe used two part urethane and the stiffer product he used was called Shore 70. All our we gravity pours and we had few air bubble issues. You will need to really get a clean mold and use plenty of mold releasing agent for the urethane to flow good. 

[BearsFan315]

Ted, thanks for the tips. maybe i will open the hole in the met inset a tad an then put a small step or rib step on the pin to hold the metal midway. Yeah the urethane i was looking at is either Shore 60A or Shore 85A (two options). Shore 70A is approx to rubber used in tires (Medium Hard). 60A would be a tad softer/flexible (Medium Soft/Medium Hard). 20A is approx to a rubber band 😛 (Soft)

 

Do you remember brand you all used ?? and was it Shore 70 or 70A or 70D ?? assume 70A for a flexible rubber.

[Gary W]

I'm enjoying the mold process.  Thanks for sharing all your  work with us.  

I don't know if it will help when pouring urethane or rubber, but in our dental practice we pour stone and epoxy models 

directly on a vibrating plate to shake out the air bubbles as we pour.

 

If you slowly fill the mold while vibrating it, the air bubbles rise up and out.  

Like I said, your materials may be heavier, but maybe?

Also, do you warm your molds prior to pouring to let the material flow a little better?

 

When we cast our crowns, those are poured in a vacuum to help pull the air out of the investment.

 

Keep up the great work and good luck with the  new parts.  Do you see a day when all these parts are simply 3-D printed?  Those machines are amazing.

 

Gary

[BearsFan315]

Gary...

 

i plan to 3d print the molds, and then go from there, probably could do some sort of 3d printing if i had a high end machine that could do metal and rubber materials. 3d printing is a hole new world and great for the old car hobby if applied correctly.

 

the rubber urethane i am looking at is about 1100 cps so it is like pouring 60wt oil. i plan to pour vertical and if i had a vibrating plate i would use it, plan to pour and tap as i go. these are small parts so need to keep the air out. 

[BearsFan315]

ok, updated the mold models, put in a chamfered corner so i KNOW which way they go, as well as 3 alignment pins. 

 

also put in a step ring on the pins internally to hold the metal inset in the middle where i need it orange rings you can see in the image. going to try using a clearance around the pins, over sized the holes .005, do not want too large as the material will seep in and make it hard to get apart. 

 

hoping this will work for making a few sets. looking to do what i can based on the rubber i am going to order, once it it opened it has a SHORT life. 

[chistech]

You’re actually better off letting the metal plate sit right on the bevel. Just open the holes for the pin slightly. If the metal is a little closer to the top that’s good plus the screw will contact the metal in the hole which will allow for it to be more secure. Trust me, don’t overthink it. Ask me how I know! LOL. The urethane comes from Specialty Resin and with the printed mold, you might have some release issues because of the “ribbed” texture the process leaves. Our aluminum molds were super smooth and polished but we were also molding much deeper in the mold than you will be.

Edited May 28, 2020 by chistech (see edit history)

[BearsFan315]

Well 3d Printed the first test molds, came out pretty nice. did some fitment tests and some alignment testing.

need to tweak a few things and try again. want to make sure the molds are ready to rock before i start ordering rubber and pouring.

also did a fitment /location test on the metal inset i printed earlier as well.

 

these were printed with a think layer height of 0.3mm and an infill of 25% along with a wall/shell thickness of 0.8mm will go heavier and thinner layers on final mold prints !!

 

Layer 1 done, Layer 2 going down on the right side

 

bottom layers complete, now doing an infill, only doing a 25% infill for test parts. no need to waste material and time.

 

layer one of the bottom of  rubber section being laid down

 

finished 3d printing, came out pretty good !!

 

[BearsFan315]

spent the weekend tinkering with concepts and trial and error, then ran out of filament for 3d printer, so ordered a new spool that arrive monday afternoon. the first picture are the iterations i have gone through testing and playing around, learned that printing the pins in i kept messing them up or breaking them off, so plan B. Other picts are the latest design, going to try and use external pins that i can push in and pull out the mold (Thanks Ted) also need to put some chamfers on the pins for guidance, and also makes it easier to pull the mold apart. notice the chamfer edges where the two molds  meet, this allows me to insert a blade/putty knife in to separate them.

 

also talked with a few shops and found a place that is working on laser cutting my metal insets out !! said 3-5 days and i should have them, so will post pictures once i get them. excited that everything is coming together. once i get the mold to a happy place (waiting on the stainless steel rod to arrive so i can make pins and test fit.) then i can order a batch of urethane rubber. that will be the last thing then i can start molding a set, plan to make 1 set a at time, requiring 2 molds, one for each seal.

 

few iterations i went through this weekend

 

latest iteration, fits nicely together, just need to chamfer the alignment pins

 

clearly see the through holes for the hole pins

 

clear view of the leading chamfer for ease of separation

 

pour in funnel, this is the top, pour in and let urethane rise, pushing out air 

 

other side view can see alignment pins in the 3 large holes

[BearsFan315]

ok, so made the tweaks and 3d printed out the latest iteration last night. 

 

while it was printing I got a 12" piece of stainless rod to make pins out of, cut them down to 1.50" long sections and cleaned them up. they fit nicely in the inset holes. ended up making 8 rods, so i that means i have 4 sets. which may be a good number for molding sets. pour 2 sets at a time, i.e. 4 seals.

 

got up this morning and did a few test fits and check alignment. i am very happy with it at this point. remember the test print here is printed low resolution/quality. basically 0.30mm layer thickness with only 25% fill to save material and time.

 

here are some pictures of the test fits and validation...

 

one set of inset pins

 

latest iteration of the molds (draft quality) and set of pins

 

[BearsFan315]

so now to test fit the components as they should go together, or my logic and input anyways

 

put inset pins into lower half of mold

 

apply mold sealer/release compound to both halves, let set, apply second coat, let set

 

set metal inset into place on the pins, the chamfers will hold the metal inset centered in the mold and on the pins.

this is a 3d printed version that i colored gray for test fitting and validation, metal ones should be here in a week or so !!

 

chamfers that hold the metal inset

 

put mold halves together, using chamfer corner and alignment pins to ensure mold is correct

 

lower half

 

upper half

 

this is how it will be poured, standing up...

 

you can see the metal inset (gray) through the pour funnel

 

then clamp it together and apply a little force to hold the halves together

 

color & mix urethane (coloring black since natural color is milky/amber color)

 

pour urethane in mold, and gently tap/vibrate the mold to help urethane settle and remove air pockets.

 

let set & cure

 

once cured, push out pins, then split mold (hence chamfers along edge so i can get a putty knife in there if needed), remove cast urethane seal

 

clean up flash and trim urethane excess from pour hole/ funnel

 

clean up seal, mold

 

cut split in urethane based on scribe line cast in.

 

test and validate !!

 

sure there will be hiccups and issues along the way, as this is the first time i have ever tried to pour and cast urethane.

Edited June 3, 2020 by BearsFan315 (see edit history)