12V Generator in '55 Buick Special - added radio/SiriusXM

[Eric W]

Todd,

As to the hidden stereo - not sure if it would work for you, but since your car has the radio delete plate, I had seen somewhere that location used to hide the new stereo. Don't know if they used a hinge or if the delete plate is just held in with clips or something. My '55 already had the dash hacked for a new-ish stereo, and they had stuck a lighter in the former knob hole that was too far over to be covered by the new stereo. So I'm using the stock speaker location - as a speaker location. I think what's in there is a 4x7. I found it stuck by the speaker magnet way up under the dash where it couldn't be heard at all, so I made up a little adapter plate to get it into the right place.

[buick5563]

The cool thing for Todd, is that in my picture above, I had to destroy an original (non-working) radio. I only kept the face plate. Since he doesn't have the speaker there, he can just install it.

I just straightened the tabs on my grille, so that it stays in place, but can be removed with no tools if I need to change the time, etc.

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Hey Eric,

I haven't yet removed the little speaker grill, but this weekend UI hope to get in there and see what's behind it. From what I can tell though, I should have no problem fitting the sony stereo in there with the plastic bracket currently holding it under the dash. Worst case, i'll just modify the plastic plate holding the stereo now to make it fit.

The only thing I'd like to see visibly is the sirius satelite that's on top of the dash with a suction cup. I can remove that any time.

Todd

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Yup. No radio there. Just grill. And wires behind it. but, since much of my weekend will be sorting out a ground issue, I'll spend some time under the dash cleaning things up as well.

Todd

[bhambulldog]

Check the fuel filter.

Another symptom of a clogged fuel filter is an overheated engine.

Did you notice the engine being hot when she 'bogged down'?

If you do indeed need a fuel pump,

I would highly recommend staying with the mechanical. I've had great luck with my mechanical pump for the 13 years since restoration.

Your mechanical pump is a dual action pump. The dual action pump provides fuel AND vacuum for the wipers.

Changing to an electric fuel pump will necessitate converting your vacuum wipers to electric as well.

The folks here can help solve both Your fuel problem and your electrical problem. let's take one at a time. Throwing parts at it and combining the fuel and electrical will have you chasing your tail. And, maybe never getting to the root problem.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9370 using Tapatalk

[Guest 54fins]

That is why I add the electric pump under the car where you can't see it, but you can hear it. The $50 Facet pumps at NAPA boost 5 psi and do not need a regulator, but the do go click click. I want the looks of the stock pump and the facet pump won't hurt it. You can also switch it off and it won't restrict flow. However, if you car sits for a month or even a week, the carb will go low from evap. The electric pump will prime the carb for a quick start. And sooner or later, you will vapor lock. It is inevitable. You will then drain the battery trying to start he car. Why not have both? You can use the stock pump but I suspect that you will be glad the electric is there before the stock pump. It won't overpressure the carb but that little extra boost will greatly improve fuel delivery.

[bhambulldog]

My car can go several weeks and it cranks the first try, every time..

Hard to start issues were eliminated for me, with properly set timing and a new battery of sufficient strength.

I might get vapor lock today when I drive the Roadmaster. But, I've not had a vapor lock issue in 13 years since my restoration.

Let's get his electrical problem, and his fuel problem solved separately, before we COMBINE the two problems.......

Sent from my BlackBerry 9370 using Tapatalk

[Buicknutty]

Todd;

Read through your thread and lots of good advice is being offered. Here are a few of my own thoughts. Going back to your stalling issue, if I've read through correctly, you mentioned that you had gassed up a bit before it stalled on you, and that there wasn't gas at first, but then it fired up and has ran fine? I can't help but wonder if you got something in the new gas, dirt or water that caused it to stall, then the cranking eventually cleared it. Just a guess.

I've driven these 50's Buicks since the 70's and have always used the stock mechanical pump and I've driven my '56 Roadmaster extensively over the last 30 years. If you get a pump rebuilt, make sure that has materials that are resistant to the modern fuels. Electric pumps are of kind of like religion, you're either a believer, or not. They work fine, but so can the mechanical ones. I live in Toronto, Ont., and summers get hot, and after a while in slow, hot traffic it can bog down a bit once you try to accelerate, then it clears up fine a speed. Folks that live in the South may find an electric more of a necessity than us further North.

The difference is that modern fuels are more votatile, so we tend to have this problem more than in the past. Modern cars run with much higher fuel pressure and only very rarely will have this problem.

Also, I didn't see the "pancake" fuel filter in the pictures that is usually at the inlet to the carb, so its' possible that it was removed at some point.

I too use CARS and ebay quite a bit for parts as its' pretty tough to get stuff for these old Buicks in Canada, even from the local old car parts guys.

Keep your spirits up, these are good, solid, reliable cars, and will give lots of happy cruising once you get your issues sorted out.

Keith

Edited May 23, 2013 by Buicknutty (see edit history)

[Guest BuddyBuick]

FYI - MIKE - got your email this morning, definitely want the trim. I'll respond when I get home tonight and give you my paypal details. You can invoice me there.

KEITH - Hello neighbour. I greatly apprecite your advice. I wondered the same thing too about getting something in the gas. Though since I've had this car (only picked it up last summer and never had an issue such as this) it is kind of spooking me now, mainly because here in Quebec, if you stall, or even have an accident and cause even a slight bit of a traffic jam, people here are generally not very nice at all and consider you nothing but an obstacle and an inconvenience. ha. Sad, but true. I don't want to stall in a heavy section of traffic.

I see a little pancake looking thing in the engine compartment, but it's attached to the distributor. I guess I'll stay away from the electric pump for now, and maybe have the mechnical pump checked out. the car is going into the garage soon to have the new fuel sending unit installed (my gas gauge doesn't show the level of gas, but the gauge works - it's the second gauge).

BHAMBULLDOG - I agree. I think all my posting may have caused confusion. I know it confused ME. haha. My electrical issue is a great concern because I'm sure its something really simple. I just don't know where to start looking first. But I do know that the coil wire is frayed a bit, and the choke cable AND the the breather must be touching it.

Thanks guys!

Todd

[avgwarhawk]

With respect to the fuel line, I know which one you're talking about - what would you suggest I do in order to accomplish this? Replace the entire line? Can this line replaced with a rubber one?

Todd

My fuel line is routed as yours and I do not experience vapor lock. I do have a fuel filter where the fuel line enters the carb. It is a metal filter. Do not use a rubber hose in place of the metal line. The manual choke set up, is there a replacement choke that could be installed thus not requiring the manual set up? I have not searched for a chock coil to know if any or available.

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Chris,

I have no filter in this car, but will install one soon. The glass bowl one I guess. Something I can SEE. The choke I have now has a manual pull cable (as seen in the pics), but the last couple of times I've started the car (since the stall) I haven't touched the choke at all when starting, nor while it idled and warmed up.

I do have a spare carb that came with the car when I bought it (along with a bunch of other parts) so I could replace the current choke with the other one though the other choke doesn't have an attachment for the pull cable.

Todd

[60FlatTop]

I have seen bubbles in the fuel filter bowl caused by deteriorated rubber hoses on the suction side of the pump. The hoses can be short connectors at the tank or in the engine compartment. They don't leak enough to drip. They just suck air in. Remember 30" of vacuun is 14.7 PSI. If the pump is pulling 8 to 10" on the suction side that's 4 or 5 PSI atmospheric trying to get in.

Bernie

[avgwarhawk]

Chris,

I have no filter in this car, but will install one soon. The glass bowl one I guess. Something I can SEE. The choke I have now has a manual pull cable (as seen in the pics), but the last couple of times I've started the car (since the stall) I haven't touched the choke at all when starting, nor while it idled and warmed up.

I do have a spare carb that came with the car when I bought it (along with a bunch of other parts) so I could replace the current choke with the other one though the other choke doesn't have an attachment for the pull cable.

Todd

Need a filter for sure!!!! The manual choke someone has rigged together. I would look to take the choke housing off the second carb. Get rid of the cable and associated homemade brackets(IMO).

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Okay,

This is what I have so far from all the tips/advice in terms of my fuel/no fuel issue (let me know if I'm wrong) -

- I DEFINITELY have to install a fuel filter at the carb. One that let's me see the gas.

- I should get rid of the choke and cable, and replace the setpup withe the spare working parts I have.

- I should get myself a fire extinguisher and keep it in the car. (I'm not trying to be funny you guys really freaked me out with this one)

- An electric fuel pump CAN be installed (inline, near the gas tank), but I don't necessarily need one, but it's kinda good to have as a backup.

- No rubber hoses. Just possibly consider rerouting the fuel line away from Manifold.

I can do all this myself at home. I've worked on cars before, just never something this old. I'm actually afraid to do more harm than good.

How am I doing?

Todd

[Buicknutty]

Todd;

The pancake gadget on the distributor is called the "vacuum advance" and is part of the ignition system and changes the spark advance as you accelerate.

Keith

[Buicknutty]

Say Todd, do you have a shop manual for the car?

Keith

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Thanks Keith! I won't be messin around with the vacuum advance. She picks up speed nicely when required.

I do have a shop manual. I'm also waiting for a parts manual and body manual too.

[TexasJohn55]

quote: How am I doing? 1) Add ground straps to body, frame and dash. 2) Check charging voltage on "hot" battery with a good meter. 3) Check for sucking air in the fuel stream. Install fuel safe clear hose on pump suction. Mine has a 7 1/2 " section of rubber hose from pump down to steel line on frame. Tee in fuel pressure guage on pump output side to carb. 4) Did I mention installing ground straps? TexasJohn

[Guest BuddyBuick]

quote: How am I doing? 1) Add ground straps to body, frame and dash. 2) Check charging voltage on "hot" battery with a good meter. 3) Check for sucking air in the fuel stream. Install fuel safe clear hose on pump suction. Mine has a 7 1/2 " section of rubber hose from pump down to steel line on frame. Tee in fuel pressure guage on pump output side to carb. 4) Did I mention installing ground straps? TexasJohn

Howdy Tex,

Dually noted on all accounts. Do you happen to have a specific reference to the fuel pressure gague? I'm assuming I can pick one up at UAP/NAPA here?

Also, the ground straps - do you happen to have pics of these straps on a classic? And, the clear rubber hose confuses me - I'm not sure which side the pump suction is on(?)

Todd

[avgwarhawk]

I should get myself a fire extinguisher and keep it in the car. (I'm not trying to be funny you guys really freaked me out with this one)

It is a good idea.

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Chris,

I'm headed to Canadian Tire after work. Few things to pick up there. Extinguisher is on the list.

Todd

[TexasJohn55]

Ground straps of 10 or 12 guage from intake manifold bolt to the firewall and from body to dash. Not sure about engine to frame but a heavy braided unit would suffice. ............ Any pressure guage capable of 15 to 30 psi would work. I won't recommend it installed in the car unless you use braided reinforced hose because of possible leakage. Having said that, it wouldn't bother me personally. You can mount it in engine bay, easiest is to screw it directly into a tee mounted at the carburetor or filter head so you may see it when you raise the hood but not worry about hoses and mounting woes. A 0 to 15 psi would be optimal and more accurate at your low pressures of 2-7 psi......The suction side is the line going down to frame from the top section of your combination pump. The pressure side goes to carb.

[60FlatTop]

I have seen bubbles in the fuel filter bowl caused by deteriorated rubber hoses on the suction side of the pump. The hoses can be short connectors at the tank or in the engine compartment. They don't leak enough to drip. They just suck air in. Remember 30" of vacuun is 14.7 PSI. If the pump is pulling 8 to 10" on the suction side that's 4 or 5 PSI atmospheric trying to get in.

Bernie

[bhambulldog]

I'm looking at this tread now from my desk top. I just now read the entire thread

Earlier today when I posted from my Blackberry , I did not see page 2 of this thread.

So, I was ignorant many of the details regarding your car's symptoms.

With that in mind, I still say You need to fix the electrical problem first.

[TexasJohn55]

Todd, if I can get them to load, here are some pics. I don't know that this is original setup, just pictures of mine. A small guage will help with clearance issues, Use a brass tee 1/8 " npt but beware of hanging it prior to filter because of vibration issues and possibly breaking it off. The use of a small guage would help. I think that the rigid fuel line would help support it if line is P-clipped to the intake. Your guage needs to have 1/8" nipple to mount it, If you put the tee directly on the carb, you can use a standoff nipple and coupler for clearance and visibility. Fuel pressure spec is 4-5 psi.

[Guest 54fins]

my fuel line is temporary until I make a hard line. I know we have a lot of subjects bouncing around, which is the whole fun of the hobby! Your radio delete makes adding a stereo behind the speaker grill a snap, as you don't have to debate removing the stereo. Run a red (pos) with fuse and black (neg) wire directly to the battery and you will be rockin! The generator can easily handle a stereo upgrade and you have a perfect place to hide it. This way you bypass all the old wire issues and we will have to start a new thread on re-wiring the car as a separate issue! as for fuel, that might need to be a new thread too. but the last post is quite good for being simple, a quick and easy add on.

Edited May 23, 2013 by 54fins (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

Here are two pictures to show the engine ground strap: From the passengers side of the engine,

The second

[JohnD1956]

I have seen bubbles in the fuel filter bowl caused by deteriorated rubber hoses on the suction side of the pump. Bernie

Those bubbles should stop when the engine is turned off though, correct?

[60FlatTop]

Yep. Those bubbles will. Bubbles from boiling will keep perking. Lots of times the hose condition is obvious. I looked around the garage yesterday for one that used to hang on a pegboard. I removed it from the sending unit on an old Caddy. The fabric plies were showing where the rubber cracked and came off. I remember snaking my head around the axle just to get a look at it.

When I get a chance I'll look around again.

Bernie

[old-tank]

Clothes pins, insulation, rerouting the line between the mechanical lift pump and the carb did nothing for my 55's. The vapor lock is between the tank and the pump. Only a 7-9# electric pump (which will give 5# at the carb) mounted at the tank will work.

The vapor lock is between the tank and the pump! That's on the suction side of the mechanical lift pump...the pressure side will push fuel and vapor into the carb.

Willie

[Guest BuddyBuick]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]194531[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]194532[/ATTACH]Todd, if I can get them to load, here are some pics. I don't know that this is original setup, just pictures of mine. A small guage will help with clearance issues, Use a brass tee 1/8 " npt but beware of hanging it prior to filter because of vibration issues and possibly breaking it off. The use of a small guage would help. I think that the rigid fuel line would help support it if line is P-clipped to the intake. Your guage needs to have 1/8" nipple to mount it, If you put the tee directly on the carb, you can use a standoff nipple and coupler for clearance and visibility. Fuel pressure spec is 4-5 psi.

Great pics. I can see everything. It's like looking at my own engine, but with the things I'm missing. I looked at my engine again in Friday and noticed there are a few wires that need to be fixed up a bit. The coil wire obviously, and the push button starter wires are actually covered with "dried" duct tape bits. I didn't see any ground strap in my engine compartment.

Sorry for the late reply. I haven't been on my computer much.

Todd

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Clothes pins, insulation, rerouting the line between the mechanical lift pump and the carb did nothing for my 55's. The vapor lock is between the tank and the pump. Only a 7-9# electric pump (which will give 5# at the carb) mounted at the tank will work.

The vapor lock is between the tank and the pump! That's on the suction side of the mechanical lift pump...the pressure side will push fuel and vapor into the carb.

Willie

I'm torn on this. Half say do it, half say don't do it... It's also a wiring issue for me - I'm afraid to wire ANYTHING to this car because I could end up with more wiring issues. I think I'm stuck for now getting the wiring issue dealt with, then the fuel issue. I think I'm leaning toward getting an electric fuel pump though after I get the fuel filter installed.

Todd

[TexasJohn55]

Todd, don't be afraid because of inexperience. Knowledge and a "can do" mentality will get alot done. Wiring up an electric pump is not rocket science. If you decide to do that just do some research and study of your own electrical schematic for your model and know that it must be on ignition switched circuit with it's own fuse, likely easier to install a relay to switch it, that simplifies the process. It takes the load of pump circuit off your existing setup and the relay will carry the additional load. Add your ground wires and fuel bowl with guage, then you will be in better position to assess need for electric pump. The fuel system integrity with your manual pump should be established first so it will function as designed, the electric pump is to stop fuel vapor lock issues and thereby improve reliability. It will not cure a degraded rubber hose at tank suction. TJ55

[Buicknutty]

Todd;

If you choose to go with an electric pump, as TJ above mentioned you can do it without causing any issues with your existing electrical system, as you will be running new wiring from a reliable point, with a new ground.

Keith

[buick5563]

Yes. Keep the original pump.

I'll walk you through the electric install brother.

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Sorry for the late responses guys.

Ok, I'm taking Buick in to the garage this weekend to have the new fuel sending unit installed. I'm also having a new ground wire run frm the engine to the inner fender or firewall.

I'm also having a fuel filter installed - as you know, I don't have a filter.

For now, I'll wait on the electric fuel pump. If I still have that stalling issue, I'll definitley have an electric pump installed. Couldn't hurt, right?

On a totally un-car-related note, I just want to say you guys rock. Ya'll really know how to make a dude like me feel at home.

I'll keep you all posted on the repairs n such!

Todd

[Guest BuddyBuick]

Thanks dude!! Much appreciated. I have a different issue now however; Had the car at the garage to get the new fuel sending unit installed. Garage called me and said the fuel sending unit I purchased (from ebay) is the wrong one. The guy who sold me the unit, assures me it's the correct unit for my year vehicle, and I'm inclined to trust him on this. I'm wondering, how the heck can I tell if the tank I have has been changed?

Todd

[old-tank]

Thanks dude!! Much appreciated. I have a different issue now however; Had the car at the garage to get the new fuel sending unit installed. Garage called me and said the fuel sending unit I purchased (from ebay) is the wrong one. The guy who sold me the unit, assures me it's the correct unit for my year vehicle, and I'm inclined to trust him on this. I'm wondering, how the heck can I tell if the tank I have has been changed?

Todd

pictures?

[Guest BuddyBuick]

pictures?

Hi Old Tank,

Pictures of my tank? Or the sending unit?

Todd

[60FlatTop]

No, the mechanics: Sometimes you get an uncomfortable feeling.

Bernie