Best/Clean seat belt install

[Guest chevy_dude97]

I picked up some aircraft style belts from cars and was trying to figure the safest way to go about installing.

I was thinking about adding a plate or bar across the back to reinforce the belts and maybe adding nutplates and loops for car seats. maybe an angle stock or square from frame to frame would look the most legit with a couple angles at the ends for support.

Any pics of examples would be perfect. I did pick up the install kits from cars but they do not look like "craftsmanship" quality.

[buick5563]

Juliano's Hot Rod Parts & Interior Products - Custom Car & Street Rod Accessories

i like their mounting brackets. They are thick and rounded. Obviously, it would be better if it wasn't just attached to sheet metal, but they claim (in a wreck) their brackets are less likely to just rip out of the floor.

Edited December 19, 2012 by buick5563 (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Make sure that your seats are anchored as well, or better, than the added seat belts. The danger in adding seat belts to old cars is that, in certain crashes, the seat frame can tear loose from the car. If the seat belt stays in place in such a situation, with you or a passenger between the belt and the seat, the result is not at all satisfactory.

[buick5563]

the result is not at all satisfactory.

Indeed

[Roadmaster75]

Juliano's Hot Rod Parts & Interior Products - Custom Car & Street Rod Accessories

i like their mounting brackets. They are thick and rounded. Obviously, it would be better if it wasn't just attached to sheet metal, but they claim (in a wreck) their brackets are less likely to just rip out of the floor.

Dittos on Julianos stuff!

I've installed 5 sets of their shoulder/lap belts in old cars and it's top quality.

They were able to select a period perfect set of lap belts for my 58 Roady; both in color and style.

They work with you to ensure satisfaction.

mike

[Guest chevy_dude97]

Thanks for the advice guys. I was looking into fabbing up brackets for my seat as well, its not a fighter jet and I do not need "ejector seats".

I am now leaning on bringing the plate above the sheetmetal to conceal it under the seats.(from frame to frame, or atleast a larger area) to increase strength.

[D Yaros]

I am now leaning on bringing the plate above the sheetmetal to conceal it under the seats.(from frame to frame, or atleast a larger area) to increase strength.

________________________________________________________________

If I understand the post correctly, putting the reinforcement inside the car will not do anything in terms of preventing the seat from ripping out of the floorboard. Or, am I missing something here?

[Guest chevy_dude97]

I am now leaning on bringing the plate above the sheetmetal to conceal it under the seats.(from frame to frame, or atleast a larger area) to increase strength.

________________________________________________________________

If I understand the post correctly, putting the reinforcement inside the car will not do anything in terms of preventing the seat from ripping out of the floorboard. Or, am I missing something here?

It would not be a plate just sitting inside the car, it would be welded in; either to both sides of the frame "like a roll cage" or it would be a plate large enuff to have alot of weld surface as to be very secure inside with space inbetween to mount the bolts in. The plate would be thicker than the sheet metal and the only "weak/stress points" would be the welds. Seeing this most likely would be "sheer strength" I believe the bolts would be the weakest links.

This would solve the sheet metal/anchor with limited surface area problem. Look at a modern day vehicle and you will not see any bolts going through the floors. There are "welded in" anchors, this would be my copy. The "to the frame" reference would require openings through the body to access the frame tops. This could be hidden under the seat, and if installed properly you would not notice from under the car.

To the frame would give the most security IMO. and either way would allow for seat mounting as well.

[buick man]

I don't really see the need to install belts in these heavy classics at all unless you run into a concrete truck. The others out there will be the loser what with your weight and gauge of metal in the fenders and frame. The door of your buick weighs more than most of todays cars entire front clip.

[old-tank]

I don't really see the need to install belts in these heavy classics at all unless you run into a concrete truck. The others out there will be the loser what with your weight and gauge of metal in the fenders and frame. The door of your buick weighs more than most of todays cars entire front clip.

Even if you believe that:rolleyes: you still need seat belts to keep you from being ejected:eek:...

[Guest chevy_dude97]

Hawaii State law says they are required for any children to ever ride in them. It also says if it is driven more than say to car shows it must have them for everyone. mass x velocity = momentum My family has had its share of tragedy from lack of seat belts/ not bolted down seats.

[bhclark]

When I was 16, I totaled a 1988 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Sport Coupe when I hit it with my Wildcat.

The Wildcat had a dented fender.

[Paul Falabella]

Even just a lap belt will prevent a windshield from being broken by a fast moving head in a suddenly stopping car. 1972, 64 Caddy, no belt, my head!

[Roadmaster75]

Just to be clear here.....

The anchor plates that are supplied with (my preferred vendor is Juliano's) are quite stout ...

They a grade 8 captive nut welded into them.

They are meant to be mounted under the floor board. You drill a 1/2" or so hole into the floorboard at the point

you wish to anchor the belts. The anchor points are "NOT" on the seat frame. They go through the floor, independent of the seat frame.

They have grade 8, fine threaded bolts go through the passenger compartment and through the floor;

7/16" as I recall. The anchor plates are roughly 5" long and an

inch or more wide ( this is to align it along the long side of the frame dimension if necessary.).

All this depends on the condition of your floor sheet metal!!

If it is thin or crispy like a potato chip , your anchor will catapult (along with your body) out of the car

on impact.

The idea is NOT to anchor YOU to the seat...It is to anchor YOU to the FLOOR!

I humbly disagree that the girth and weight of a 50's car will save you.....

Being thrashed about inside of the interior of your (large) car or being ejected is not my idea

of a "safety factor". Old cars are big, but not

indestructible.

Get belts and install them properly. IF you don't know how to do it then

have someone do it for you. As I understand you will not be "docked"

points on the show circuit if the belts are installed. Right??

In case you haven't guessed I feel strongly about this stuff.

People can and do get hurt in old cars. Be safe out there!

I had not one, but two acquaintances get hurt recently ( in two old cars, but ONE accident)

both cars destroyed. THe 19 year old girl, texting her BFFs sailed into them, without braking, at about 50mph.

One car burnt to the ground. Thankfully they are recovering well.

respectfully,

mike

[buick man]

Even if you believe that:rolleyes: you still need seat belts to keep you from being ejected:eek:...

.... then it's best to cut n patch them into the car somehow and wear them. :cool:

[Guest chevy_dude97]

Roadmaster, I am not doubting the quality of the anchors suggested, I am merely trying to build a better mouse trap, one that will be hidden under the seats(not attached to) and not identified by a brief under carriage pass. I do not trust any sheet metal that has started to corrode since its creation(1951 or so) not that it may or may not hold just the fact that these belts are going in for my kids car seats and you can call me over protective. The weakest point is always going too be the floor pan, that's why I am trying to come up with a way to "bypass it" or "utilize more area for security. (and at that point the hardware would be the weakest link) you can say a larger anchor under the pan would do this, I agree however I am trying to keep her looking(besides the 3 car seats in the rear) original and as much a "survivor" as possible.

I believe the having an unbolted seat and seat belts comment above was referring to the "extra amount of weight(or force) provided on the said anchors due to the kinetic energy stored up in the seat. If it was the belts up front for me and the wife "anchors" would be sufficient.

[Eric W]

You've probably done what you're going to do on this, but I went with the Juliano's belts in my '55. Similar reasons - I've got little kids and they do ride along. Here in Arizona, if it's a pre-1972 vehicle, child+seatbelt laws do not apply. You're free to do whatever you want. Might want to check if HI also exempts older cars. I found that child seats are not useful with just the lap belt. All the child seat does is lift them up, making them more able to lean out the windows, and there's more moving parts between the kid and the floor where the belts are attached. The child seat intent is to position them correctly for a shoulder belt, but with lap belt only, that feature isn't useful. So we don't use any child/booster seats at all in the '55, just the seat belts.

As far as location goes and "hiding" them under the seat - not worth it. For the front seat, the belt has to be far enough back on the floor to not be under the seat at full-back travel, and it's desirable to have the belt at an angle (so the belt isn't straight up out of the floor, but angled, I believe 70-80 degrees, see the vendor's instructions), so that puts the belt attach point even a little farther back. This will minimize forward motion in an impact. Think about it - if the belt is tucked up under the seat, in a wreck, the belt will first pull the seat forward, then it will start to hold you. By then you could be a could few to several inches farther forwards - before the belt even starts working, and the seat has no chance of staying put - its retention mechanism is broken. With the belt anchor points behind the seat, the belt pulls the seat down, not forwards, as tension is applied. Sure, there's going to be some give as the seat cushion is compressed, but not near as much as if the belt "unwinds" from under the seat as the seat slides forward on the floor.

If you really want the belts to maximize safety, the front belts are going to be completely visible behind the front seat, regardless of the fastener scheme. I did hide the bolt & bracket under the carpet, so only the belt rises up from a slot in the carpet.

[Mudbone]

I don't really see the need to install belts in these heavy classics at all unless you run into a concrete truck. The others out there will be the loser what with your weight and gauge of metal in the fenders and frame. The door of your buick weighs more than most of todays cars entire front clip.

No Crumple Zones!

When I give rides in the 1923 Model T depot Hack, I tell then this…

There are no air bags:

There are no seat belts:

There are no doors:

I only have two wheel mechanical brakes:

If it looks like we are going to get into an accident, please feel free to jump out!

Oh, by the way, No smoking… your sitting on the fuel tank!

Edited July 24, 2013 by Mudbone (see edit history)

[49_buick_super]

I'll take seat belts.