1936 Dodge paint

[35cz8]

Does anybody know of a paint store that has the mix codes and can supply the right mix of paint for a 1936 Dodge? My rs cp was originally painted at the factory with gunmetal poly and I would like to get the right and original mix if I can. Thanks for any help.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

I've attached what I could find which may not exactly be what you want but will give you an idea of what is available.

I'll keep looking as I have quite a bit of stuff to go through.

Regards

Ian

[Guest 1930]

You can try the guys at Auto Color Library - The World's Largest Online Color-Chip Library but I dont know how much they can help

[36 D2 Coupe]

Do you have a sample of the original colour from someplace on the car that is not oxidized or weathered? Some paint shops can do a match using a type of sophisticated scanner. It creates the formula to get the colour you need. I still have a bit of the original paint on my RS Coupe that was hidden under the horn grille fairings. I think before I strip everything I'll try to get a match made up for my car. Your other option would be to sit down with a paint chip book from your local paint store and try to match a sample of your original colour. The paint chips I have for '36 Dodge are aged and I doubt if they are exactly like they were in '36. Maybe someone with more experience has some better ideas.

Jim

[Steve9]

You can try the guys at Auto Color Library - The World's Largest Online Color-Chip Library but I dont know how much they can help

I picked my '36 Dodge color, "Palm Green Poly" from this company. They sent me a "spray-out card" of this color so you can tell exactly how it's going to look because: 1) It's 5x7 in size. 2) the on-line chips are a waste of time. It would be expensive to order all the colors, but depending how hard it is to make up your mind, it could be done. My original color was a lighter green, I wanted dark and I'm pleased with the results. Good luck with your quest. The color game can drive you nuts!

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Give this site a go

Cheers

Ian

TCP Global - Quality & Service Since 1974

[MIClassicGirl]

I have used the TCP Global. We had our local Napa store come out & use their camera on our car. Ordered the secondary color through TCP & it matched EXACTLY what the NAPA store had done a color card for us. We were blown away. Haven't used the TCP paint yet, but color wise...really nice. I have also talked with them on the phone and they have an extensive library & lab to recreate the old paint colors that no longer have the recipes available. Very nice people & very helpful!

Shannon

[35cz8]

Thanks to all for your response. My big problem is that there is no original paint (that I have found) on my car as I found it in a wrecking yard and it had been pretty much stripped to just a bare body and frame. I used a rusty business cp as a donor for the front end, interior parts and most of the other parts to put it back together. I have color chips for 1936, but as 36 D2 coupe has said, they are faded and not very accurate anymore. I have the build card from Chrysler and it states the car was gunmetal poly but I do not have a "good" example of that color chip to have it matched. Ian, thank you for posting your color chart, it has much better color than my chart. I will also contact TCP to see if they can provide the paint I will need. I figure that if I am going to go to all the work to restore this old RS Cp, I want it to be as close and perfect as I can get it and the paint will cost the same rather it is close or exact, so why not go for exact. Thanks again and if anyone else has any other info to help, please share it as all help is greatly appreciated. Thanks again.

Bob

[1936 D2]

I used "36 D2 Coupe's" technique. I found a good sample of the paint color I was after under the headlight mounting on the grille shell. I took that in to mu local auto color shop and they matched it using a color scan camera. Back at that time (1995), that system gave the color guy a sampling of 12 colors to look at. He then eyed it up (with his professional eye) to pick one of the blends, and that is the color I used. He also measured the metallic in the paint sample with a microscope and found it was an "ultra fine" metallic. "Much finer than what is used generally on todays paints" he said.

A quick warning about matching colors from scans of paint chip charts. The colors on most all of the old charts I have seen have darkened over time. The best guess for why is that the cheap paper they were glued onto was not "acid free". So, as that paper decomposed over time as it will, that process shifts the colors on the chips. It could also be a function of the glue that was used to stick the chips onto the chip charts too. You will see the background color of these paper chip chart pages are very yellowed. That is also a result of the acids in the paper. They looked great back in the day but not so much now.

Also, computer screens, scanners, and the software that work up the photoed or scanned images of these old charts, all use a different type of color calculation to work with the image. The cameras use "RGB" - the computer software uses an "8bit" or "16bit" color process, and the printers use a "CMYK" color space. So there is a lot of variation going on just to look at the charts through the computer. If you have not taken special care to "balance" this complete process, there is no way you can know if the color you see on your screen or printed out, is accurate to the original.Bottom line: Best way is to computer match an original color sample from some spot on a car of the correct color that was not in daylight nor covered with any chemical like a wax or polish.

Attached are some shots I have on file of Gunmetal Grey. The wheel photo shows the painting scheme for the grey, the silver and the stripe placement on an original '36 Dodge wheel. The last shot shows where I matched color for my car.

Bottom line: Best way is to computer match an original color sample from some spot on a car of the correct color that was not in daylight nor covered with any chemical like a wax or polish.

Edited October 25, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

Beautiful original wheel paint pattern!

[35cz8]

1936 D2, That is a beautiful wheel shot and I have taken the liberty to save the picture to my 1936 folder for future reference. Would you happen to have a larger file size of this wheel picture that I could get you to send in an e-mail? Also, a larger size of the picture of the fender and radiator shell? I want to try and get the body off the frame next week as the weather is starting to get cold and that may slow me down on working in my garage. If I can get it split, perhaps I can get it in to the body shop and let them take their time to do a great job for me. As I said before, my cp was rescued from a wrecking yard and there wasn't a lot left of it by the time I found it so I can only hope that as I take "everything" off, I will find a sample od the paint somewhere. Thanks for all your help, I do appreciate it a lot.

Bob

[35cz8]

I thought some of you might like to see what I am starting with so I am posting a few pics. It is pretty solid and is actually better than it looks as it has been setting out for a LOT of years and most of the rust seen is surface. It only has a couple places that it is rusted through and those places are on the sides (both sides) where the body, rear fender and running board all meet. I do have the patch panels to be installed.

[Ian_Greenlaw]

Hi Bob,I don't know if I've offered this to you but a while ago there was a 36 dodge on eBay that had a full body off restoration. The listing had over 50 shots from every angle and I saved them to my computer so your welcome to them if that helps. Just shoot me a PM.

Cheers IanIan

[Guest 1930]

I thought some of you might like to see what I am starting with so I am posting a few pics. It is pretty solid and is actually better than it looks as it has been setting out for a LOT of years and most of the rust seen is surface. It only has a couple places that it is rusted through and those places are on the sides (both sides) where the body, rear fender and running board all meet. I do have the patch panels to be installed.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]160272[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]160273[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]160274[/ATTACH]

Looks like you have a pretty good start

[35cz8]

Hi Ian, I have done the same as you and saved every photo that was posted of that car. It was also listed on another, auction, site before it went to e-bay. That is one great looking car but I don't think I care a lot for the looks of the trunk on it. To me, it looks a bit off balance, but that's just my opinion. Thanks for the offer of the pics though as this is the kind of things that make this hobby so much fun.

Jason, yes we do have a good start on it. We now have the engine and transmission out, all of the fenders and runnung boards off and most of the intereior is out as well. Next we will pull the steering column and dash, then strip the firewall, and off with the body. Winter is real close and that will slow me down.

Hi Bob,I don't know if I've offered this to you but a while ago there was a 36 dodge on eBay that had a full body off restoration. The listing had over 50 shots from every angle and I saved them to my computer so your welcome to them if that helps. Just shoot me a PM.

Cheers IanIan

Edited October 26, 2012 by 35cz8 (see edit history)

[1936 D2]

1936 D2, That is a beautiful wheel shot and I have taken the liberty to save the picture to my 1936 folder for future reference. Would you happen to have a larger file size of this wheel picture that I could get you to send in an e-mail? Also, a larger size of the picture of the fender and radiator shell? .... hope that as I take "everything" off, I will find a sample od the paint somewhere. Thanks for all your help, I do appreciate it a lot.

Bob

The photos I posted ARE in full size. Just click on them about three times (slowly) and you will see them at their max size. Once there, then do the "right click and 'save image' from there".

Remember, the photo of the fender and radiator shell are of the "Mercury Metallic" color.

Some interesting things you may find as you strip it down... There may be some hand written chalk markings inside the right rear "sail panel" outboard from the rear window. Once the inner cardboard is out you may see them. They indicate the body type and color from the factory. (TAKE PHOTOS of this! There was much discussion on it in an earlier thread.) As I recall, there were some similar chalk markings on the inside of the firewall metal under the jute fiber insulating board. Maybe look for those too. I only have a vague memory of what they were, but I do remember seeing something there.

You may also find SOME of the original paint oversprayed inside the top of the car around the edges of the top just above the windows. You may also find some under the side panels for the upholstery behind the front seat area. There may also be some inside the grill shell but on your car, anything that was not tightly covered with a gasket, on the exterior of the car, may be gone.

Good luck!

This is the full wheel photo I have of the Gray car's wheel paint scheme.

This is the wheel paint scheme for the more common Black cars. You can see the difference of how the "contrast color" was used in the starburst.

[1936 D2]

Hi Ian, I have done the same as you and saved every photo that was posted of that car.

Hi guys (Ian too). If you are speaking of the Regal Maroon car's photos, there was SOME over-restoration done to that car. For instance, the underside was painted the body color - like on the floor pans etc. This should be the same satin black as used on the outside of the firewall and other frame members. It was a nicely done car but I would not use it as "gospel" for how to do up one of these '36's. There were some other little "overdone" things also but I don't remember them all right now. I would have to look at all the shots again.

Sample...

Bob, if you were thinking about the Black R/S Coupe from MO with the travel trunk on the back bumper, THAT car was done fairly accurately. The original interior was just removed before painting and then replaced as I recall. THAT car would be a good sample BUT, it is Black. (According to the Build Record also shown for this car, it was not originally Black -#105, it was listed as #320 which I believe was a green of some sort.) Some of the paint combination stuff was a bit different than the Gray you want to use - like the wheels. So use a bit of caution as you look at that car too.

Also though, that car from MO originally used #550 "Bedford Cord" upholstery, so if that is what you have, it may be a good sample for you!

Edited October 26, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Steve9]

Boy, it's great to see a '36 coupe with sidemounts. Terrific car!

[keiser31]

Boy, it's great to see a '36 coupe with sidemounts. Terrific car!

Here's one in Europe that has three spares!!!

[Steve9]

Here's one in Europe that has three spares!!!

Must have some bad roads over there?

[keiser31]

Must have some bad roads over there?

Don't know why the guy wanted three spares. I sold him a spare tire cover for the rear spare and he sent me that photo.

[35cz8]

Now that looks very different. Keiser, he probably found a set of side mounts and added them, as I have done, and just left the original spare on the back also. Mine did not have a rear spare so it must have been carried behind the seat like a bussiness coupe. I was very lucky and found the complete dual sidemount set up for my cp. I even got the covers, extra tires and wheels, all 6 of the chrome wheel disks, all 6 hub caps and the two brackets that go in the door pillars inside to hold the sidemount bars in the body. These fenders are getting harder to find every year and the covers are almost impossible to find anymore. I still need to find a complete set of original head lights (mine had been converted to sealed beam) and I hope that will complete my cp.. I have been very fortunate with my search for options over the years and have almost all of the options that were offered for the '36 Dodge except the trunk rack and trunk. I like the looks of the car better without the trunk though (just my opinion).

Edited October 27, 2012 by 35cz8 (see edit history)

[keiser31]

The trunk and rack look hideous on the 1936 Dodge in my opinion.

[nearchoclatetown]

'35cz8, I have had paint spectrographed, think that's the term, at a local paint store. They needed about a 3X5 inch flate piece with the paint that I wanted to get a good reading. I would bet if you went to an OLD paint shop they would have the proper mix for your color. My local Colours, which is PPG, store had a mix for my '52 car. They said they had many older ones too. Many of the common colors repeat. That is, may come back in a differant code or name, but it's the same mix. You just have to find someone that really knows their business. Another real problem with old colors is if you want to use base/clear. Many times old colors don't translate to B/C, there are no mixing tints to obtain the exact color. I personally don't like the look of B/C on an old car, I use urethane. Also, there are a LOT of '36's in the DBC club. You may find someone that's already been through this and can give you the formula or a piece with original paint to match. Look through the roster and make some calls. Recently a friend took a part from his car to his local store, had them get the formula and I had the paint mixed locally.

[35cz8]

Thanks for the ideas nearchoclatetown, I will give that a try. My biggest problem is that the car had set in a wrecking yard - stripped down and in the weather for at least 15 to 20 years before I rescued it and there was no paint at all left to match. It was virtually just a shell setting on a frame with all windows gone and the remains of the doors left wide open. I still have not given up on finding a sample of the color but I don't hold my hopes too high at this point. I will have to check with other DBC and WPC members to see if any have found a match for the gunmetal poly. Thanks again.

Bob

[Hudsy Wudsy]

The old paint chip charts are a great tool for comparing colors and choosing which particular color you favor. Over time I've accumulated '35 and '36 Dodge, Plymouth and Chrysler chip charts from every paint manufacturer that I could. They include color examples (chips), formulas and some of them will even list the coordinating wheel and pin stripe color that the factory choose to complement it. Also, some will indicate spring colors that became available to "spruce up" the look of the line at some point. Reference is made on some of them to west coast colors, as well. There's a couple of things that a person has to bear in mind about them, though. First, the chips are ink. Great care was taken to make them as accurate as possible, but they never were paint. Secondly, they offer paint formulas, "recipes" if you wish, using the color components of paint (called toners) that haven't been available for years. Having the correct formula from one of these chip charts can't do much more than suggest some idea of what the make up of the original color was. The formula for the Gun Metal Gray Poly in question indicates the use of a green toner, along with other elements. I've noticed that quality about the bits and pieces of original Gun Metal Gray paint I've found in places on my '36 Plymouth. It's unfortunate, but in order for a paint shop to get a proper computer scan (acquired reading is their term) of an existing color the sample has to be much larger than the old chips on these charts. If I recall right 3"X5" or 5"X7" was needed, but I read somewhere that the industry anticipated that eventually that size would decrease in time.

I know of an auto paint store that uses chip booklets that contain somewhat large modern paint chips which have holes in them for placement over an existing specimen. Their specialist used that method to come up with a paint (Volkswagon, if you can imagine) that he could tweak minimally to match a Hudson color for me. The Auto color library folks just simply use the old chips in conjunction with new ones, good lighting, experience and good judgement to come up with results.

I've looked on my gray '36 Ply for a spot to get a satisfactory read, but I can't find anything that I would trust. I've posted a photo of a beautiful example of the color on a coupe that was on Ebay a while back. I wrote the owner offering to pay him for the formula or some specimen of it, but he wouldn't be bothered with replying.

36D2, I'm the guy who sent you the file (on disc) of Chip charts, etc last year. Earlier in this thread you said that the color on your fender was Mercury Metallic. I'm confused, I thought that we figured it was Stratosphere Blue. Have you new info?

[1936 D2]

Hudsy: Yes. New info. I got the Build Record Card back for the car I matched the color from and was told (by the codes on the record) that the match color was actually "Mercury Metallic". I had taken a "guess" at what the original color was back in 1985 by comparing it to two different paint chip chart color chips. Both of those charts' chips seemed to be more Stratosphere Blue for the best match but neither were a straight on match.

So I learned from that, that the chip colors shift over time from the actual original colors on the cars. As you recall, the color was matched from an excellent sample found under the headlight stalk mounting on the side of the grille shell. This headlight was apparently never removed from the car. I was the first to do so. That paint was then never in the sun nor ever had chemicals or waxes on it. I felt that was the best sample of original paint you could find after 59 years. That was the spot used for the match.

The chip charts colors then became suspect. They have been out in the light and stuck to that acidic paper through all those years. The paper itself has yellowed from the acids which also makes you think the fuming of those acids also shifted the color chips darker. So the fairly light "Stratosphere Blue" ended up being a much closer match to the "Mercury Metallic" as found on the car.

With all this in mind, I feel no one should rely on trying to make an accurate paint match from these old paint chip charts. It would be impossible as shown by my experience. It does seem like all the chip charts colors are subdued, muddy or dark and have gotten that way over time. They probably were great back in their day but once the effects of the acids showed, their accuracy dropped off greatly.

There were some ring bound books out there that had larger cards (like 4"x6") of painted samples. Hopefully those may be better but depending on the paper used as the backer, they could also be suspect.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

"Mercury Metallic"...fascinating. We both had good seemingly good, detailed chip charts and yet they held little resemblance to reality. So, now, what the heck does "Stratosphere Blue" really look like? Also, what I thought might be Mercury Metallic in the photos I sent you might actually be "Dolphine Gray."

[Guest 1930]

I have alot going on so excuse my tardiness but I have most of the original color sheets for all 36 and up model cars and had somehow forgotten that I had them.

The 36 Dodge Gunmetal Poly No 144 paint chips and the Color Formulas are available using the listed manufacturer code or color name on SmartCOLORTM

Formula Lookup, SmartTRAKTM, or call BASF at 1-800-825-3000

All you need to do is call BASF and tell them what year vehicle you are working on and give them the 144 paint chip code, they should ( if they dont I can get it ) be able to send you a formula that has been converted over from the old tints as best as possible.

With this formula you can take to any paint manufacturer of your choice wether it be Dupont, Glasseritte Sickens ect and they can convert it to their tints. Easy to do and only takes seconds.

I am sure if you had some sample of the original color I could mix you a matching paint and print you out the formula but that can be time consuming and possibly less ( or more ) accurate than the conversions they have already done.

I am still in as you know the autobody/paint business so let me know if I need to make a phonecall on your be-half if you get no-where

Didnt I just recently send you an earlier formula for the other Dodge? It would be the same deal.

Maybe that was someone else

Edited October 29, 2012 by 1930 (see edit history)

[Guest 1930]

"Mercury Metallic"...fascinating. We both had good seemingly good, detailed chip charts and yet they held little resemblance to reality. So, now, what the heck does "Stratosphere Blue" really look like? Also, what I thought might be Mercury Metallic in the photos I sent you might actually be "Dolphine Gray."

While I have the info out Stratosphere Blue is NO 418, Mercury Mettalic is No 189, Dolphine Grey Poly is No 443

Read my post above as the same instructions will work, again when you call and if you are not in the business than chances might be you will not get a satisfactory response, even I myself might get jerked around, if I do than I will just contact a BASF paint rep friend of mine and he will get me the info.

[1936 D2]

While I have the info out Stratosphere Blue is NO 418, Mercury Mettalic is No 189, Dolphine Grey Poly is No 443...

So, those code numbers are BASF numbers?

[1936 D2]

"Mercury Metallic"...fascinating. We both had good seemingly good, detailed chip charts and yet they held little resemblance to reality. So, now, what the heck does "Stratosphere Blue" really look like? Also, what I thought might be Mercury Metallic in the photos I sent you might actually be "Dolphine Gray."

Here are the only cars that I have seen photos of that were told to me are "Stratosphere Blue".

The '35 is a CA car that I believe is original paint. It seems as though it is a bit faded or chalky. (Either of those words is probably an unfair description of this car but they are the best my mind can come up with to speak about the lack of gloss. Sorry.)

This '36 is also in CA and has a modern repaint of the color researched to be "Stratosphere Blue". You can see how it is a lighter, more blue color than my avatar which shows more of the gray / green look of the color mixes shown on the chip charts' mix recipes.

Edited October 30, 2012 by 1936 D2 (see edit history)

[Hudsy Wudsy]

1936D2, thank you for those pics. No, they don't look much like your Mercury Metallic at all. Have you ever come across a know example of Dolphine Gray?

1930, Thank you for the info you've shared here. I simply had no idea that the process could be made that easy. I assume, however, that we're talking about ordering this paint online, by mail or by phone, Is that correct? No local retailer involved? Basf is a German company, right? Glasurit is a name that I associate with Basf. Though I see from a quick BASF look up that the old R-M (Rinshed - Mason auto paints) trade name has survived as a part of BASF. I assumed that they were long gone. Do you have any idea how they convert the old formulas (with their proprietory toners) to their current tints?

[Guest 1930]

The paint can be ordered thru any local jobber but again it may take some fanagling because you are going to get that glassy eyed look when you initially ask.

I have no idea what country gets the credit at this point, at this point who knows who owns what anymore.

I dont know exactly how they have converted the colors, as I have mentioned in the past DuPont also has a special dept. that has worked to save many of the old colors by converting the old tints/formulas to modern day equivalents.

At this point in my opinion while it is an interesting topic to re-search and discuss I personally would have a tendency to be satisfied with what these paint companies have done in their preservation and would not have a problem spraying the color they tell me is correct.

I spray R.M paints still and I like the way they lay out, everyone's paint has its qualities and shortcomings I guess.

[Guest 1930]

So, those code numbers are BASF numbers?

They are numbers that have been assigned and are searchable thru BASF that is why I made mention of them, beyond that I do not know their origin.

[Guest 1930]

Here are the only cars that I have seen photos of that were told to me are "Stratosphere Blue".

The '35 is a CA car that I believe is original paint. It seems as though it is a bit faded or chalky. (Either of those words is probably an unfair description of this car but they are the best my mind can come up with to speak about the lack of gloss. Sorry.)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]160796[/ATTACH]

This '36 is also in CA and has a modern repaint of the color researched to be "Stratosphere Blue". You can see how it is a lighter, more blue color than my avatar which shows more of the gray / green look of the color mixes shown on the chip charts' mix recipes.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]160797[/ATTACH]

Another thing you guys do not seem to be clear on when viewing colors ( besides the obvious that has been beat to death here ) is that there is no such thing as a true clear. Some clears are more yellow, some are more white some have higher solids and all will flip flop in the sun.

Posting pictures of cars that have been re-painted or have original ( seemingly paint ) should only be considered for fun.

[Guest 1930]

1936D2, thank you for those pics. No, they don't look much like your Mercury Metallic at all. Have you ever come across a know example of Dolphine Gray?

1930, Thank you for the info you've shared here. I simply had no idea that the process could be made that easy. I assume, however, that we're talking about ordering this paint online, by mail or by phone, Is that correct? No local retailer involved? Basf is a German company, right? Glasurit is a name that I associate with Basf. Though I see from a quick BASF look up that the old R-M (Rinshed - Mason auto paints) trade name has survived as a part of BASF. I assumed that they were long gone. Do you have any idea how they convert the old formulas (with their proprietory toners) to their current tints?

BTW I dont have a Gun-metal grey listed with a good R.M number for 36 Plymouth. I have Plymouth Blue, Aquamarine, Palm Beach grey No 2, Plymouth maroon, middy blue, Ply. gunmetal, and Ripley brown.

I do however have a Plymouth gunmetal listed for 37 but strangely enough there is no RM number assigned. This is clearly an RM sheet or document with the chips so I can accurately use the term RM number.

I am sure that a bit of prodding will capture that needed number but I would not be surprised if it was the same number assigned to the Dodge 36 color.

[Guest 1930]

In my opinion you 36 guys ought to get together and start a thread here capturing all of the paint information you can to make avail to anyone that wishes to correctly restore their car.

It is obviously avail and only requires a little bit of effort to catalog it in one place.

I wish my own car were as easy.

[Hudsy Wudsy]

1930, thank you again for educating us! We've all experienced that "glassy-eyed" look from guys on the other side of the counter.

[keiser31]

Here are the only cars that I have seen photos of that were told to me are "Stratosphere Blue".

The '35 is a CA car that I believe is original paint. It seems as though it is a bit faded or chalky. (Either of those words is probably an unfair description of this car but they are the best my mind can come up with to speak about the lack of gloss. Sorry.)

[ATTACH=CONFIG]160796[/ATTACH]

This '36 is also in CA and has a modern repaint of the color researched to be "Stratosphere Blue". You can see how it is a lighter, more blue color than my avatar which shows more of the gray / green look of the color mixes shown on the chip charts' mix recipes.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]160797[/ATTACH]

Just to concur, the 1935 belongs to a good friend of mine and definitely has the original paint on it.