vcauum guage help suggestions

[JohnD1956]

To start, let me say I have seen Willie's rants on the Rochester Carb, but it is too late as I have already rebuilt mine and I plan to use it. Here's my question:

When I reinstalled the carb it ran great under partial choke but it stumbled badly when reacing operating temp. I hooked a vacuum guage to the intake manifold side of the port off the fuel/vacuum pump. It's one of the few places with a flexible hose connection. Should I have blocked the open port into the vacuum pump or does it not matter?

I ask because with the engine under partial choke and higher warm up RPM, I was getting a steady needle. When it warmed up and the choke came off, at 750 RPM in Park, I had some needle fluctuation at about 15" of vacuum.

Subsequently I retimed the engine using the vacuum guage. But once warmed I never got a steady needle again. It's now at slightly fluctuating 17 inches at 725 RPM in Park. But I just wonder if leaving the vacuum port open may have had some impact on the readings?

[Bhigdog]

If you are connecting the gauge at the end of the tube next to the pump you are not getting a true reading. Get as close to the intake as you can with the largest vacuum source. The power brake vacuum line is excellent............Bob

[Guest brh]

Just a thought.. if you don't block off your vacuum when the car heats up and the choke comes off, its running leaner than it did before. *Only reason could be because of the open vacuum but if the engine continues to run lean, you may need to adjust the jets.

[KAD36]

John - if you hooked up the vac gauge right to the manifold at the closest point and there was nothing in between the gauge and the manifold I think you are fine. The pump is an independent source and just augments engine vac for vac powered accessories. Where you plugged in your gauge is the same place I plug in my vac gauge - at the fuel pump and pull the line. Downstream of the pump - the vac lines never go back to the engine - only the accessories.

Your readings are interesting and similar to mine. There was a link Old Tank posted on reading a vac gauge - have you seen it? Mine also pulls about 17 inches of vac at a 475-500 idle, and the needle fluctuates quick about +/- 5 (if memory serves correct). Guess I would have liked to have seen 19. There is an adjustment on my gauge that dampens the meter, and if I do that it settles to about 17". how much (and quick) does the needle fluctuate on yours? According to the vac gauge "guide" - that quick fluctuation means valve guides, but I don't have any of those typical indications (like a puff of blue smoke on a start up). The valve guides in the 55 (I think), don't have any non-metal seals in them - do they?

I've been kinda ignoring my readings, since the engine runs good after a recent tune up, new plugs, and getting the mixture right to not foul the plugs as much. And driving it more helps! Have you done anything more?

[JohnD1956]

The only other thing I've done is discover my plug wires were arcing at the bracket for the grommet on the passenger side. All 4 of em on the pass side were leaking. So I removed the two grommets and ran the plastic wire loam over the individual plug wires, and I installed those new Champion plugs I stumbled across in my tool box. It runs infinitely better but I still have some hesitation off the line when the engine is hot.

Even that is eratic, and I attribute it to gasoline. I thought I had filled the tank last fall, but I was wrong. I had gone through the winter with only a 1/4 tank. Anyway I have put gas in it three times so far this season. First just 5 gal approx, then a few more another day, with regular gas. Last week I took it for a 40 min ride to a cruise in and it ran well on the way there. This was after all new plugs and half of the wires in wire loam. So I thought it was okay. But when I left the event, I had a bad stumble off the line again. And on the way home the gas guage was reading empty, so I stopped and threw 5 gals of 93 Octane in and as soon as I started it, it ran much better. Of course as soon as I started it the tank now read 3/4 full, which is what I suspected, but maybe a higher power just wanted me to dump some hi test in it?

Anyway, I have to still finish the wire loam installation on the drivers side. and then I plan to go back with the vacuum guage again to see if any of this helped.

I going to stick with this spot as a test, so that I am comparing like situations. But I am also going to see about installing a T in the brake booster line for future work.

[KAD36]

Hi John - That cross weaving of plug wires is important as is the layout through the T. My #2 plug would occasionally arc to the spark plug wire cover causing a miss - caught it on a dark night. If you have any old spark plug wires, keep the boots. You can slit them and put them on the wires behind the plug cover to better insulate them in high risk areas - like where they pass right over the plug cover studs, the head bolts, etc. Behind the plug covers, no one is the wiser. I put NGK BS6s in mine.

When I get the vac gauge on the car again, think I'll take a video clip and send it to you for comparison. Am curious how our cars compare.

When you T the vac line, make sure you are between the pump and the manifold for your vac gauge readings. If the vac pump is in the circuit, it will smooth out the readings and could make them run high. The exact vac the pump pulls escapes me right now.

Edited July 17, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

I'll try to record my readings as well.

[Guest chevy_dude97]

Hi John - That cross weaving of plug wires is important as is the layout through the T. My #2 plug would occasionally arc to the spark plug wire cover causing a miss - caught it on a dark night. If you have any old spark plug wires, keep the boots. You can slit them and put them on the wires behind the plug cover to better insulate them in high risk areas - like where they pass right over the plug cover studs, the head bolts, etc. Behind the plug covers, no one is the wiser. I put NGK BS6s in mine.

When I get the vac gauge on the car again, think I'll take a video clip and send it to you for comparison. Am curious how our cars compare.

When you T the vac line, make sure you are between the pump and the manifold for your vac gauge readings. If the vac pump is in the circuit, it will smooth out the readings and could make them run high. The exact vac the pump pulls escapes me right now.

Another way to Insulate from the wires cover is to coat the inside of the cover with a high temp coating, illiminating the instant ground needed for the wires to arc.

[JohnD1956]

Since I do not plan to have my car judged, ever, I put the 3/8" plastic wire loam on all the wires under the cover. I even put a piece on the two studs that hold the cover on and the cover went right back over the wires with no problem. Now I am putting that stuff on the rest of the way up the wires, and removing the two gromets which hold the wires in place at the cover and the valve cover bracket.

If nothing else I figure this is keeping the wires insulated and the pattern under the covers is of no concern any more. I'll try to post a picture next week.

[JohnD1956]

Got the rest of the spark plug wire covers on today. And re did the vacuum guage test. I'll try posting the video but the needle was much smoother till I put the car in gear. BTW, here's a shot of the wire loam on the plug wires. The covers go right on the engine with these covers. Note I also pit a piece of the loam over the cover studs.

Eventually I will get another wire set, but for now, this is working just fine. I even covered the fuel line in this stuff. Not sure if it will work but it does seem to keep the fuel in the line a little cooler, as determined by touch,

[JohnD1956]

Lets see if this works. Here is a video on my vacuum guage readout.

I started with the engine cold, and on full fast idle.

Then stepped down to the first step of the fast idle

Then dropped the fast idle alltogether.

Lastly, towards the end of the film I put it in gear and that's when the thing went crazy.

The face of the guage says at that low a reading, check for a manifold leak. I'm certain thats where the problem is. There appears to be a leak right at the base of the carb in front of the exhaust passage. I am afraid to crank down on the carb mounting screws as they are not that thick and I don't want to break one off. I have to scout around for my spare manifold. It should be here somewhere. Then I'll take that and my spare car's base to a machine shop to be checked for flatness and millin, if needed. ThenI'll change out the base of the carbs, as this one appears to be running perfectly except for this.

[KAD36]

Hi John - finally got a video done last night that we can compare.

Buick Idle and Vac Gauge - YouTube

Our cars are pretty similar. At idle, it runs about 17 in with about .5 in of fluctuation, and in drive it goes bonkers also. I have owned cars in the past with a vac gauge and they were steady whether in gear or not, albeit these were cars from the 70s and 80s and idled at 650-700 in drive vs 450. Maybe the fluctuations are a result of the lower idle speed and it should be measured at a higher rpm? Traditionally, the gauge action would make me think the valve guides are worn. Actually, I had both heads replaced and a valve job done in the mid eighties, and I have suspected the dealership that did the work at the time used low compression vs high compression gaskets (or maybe my rings are just that tired), and I seem to recall they did not replace the valve guides, or there was some obscure issue with them. I know that the heads were cracked and some of the valves burned and that was all fixed. I was just graduating college at the time and hadn't started my job yet, needed the car to get me and all my stuff home, money was tight and this was my ride and details didn't matter then.

Anyone know what a 322 is supposed to look like on a vac gauge? With the exception of a rear main leak, lower than spec compression and blowby, this engine purrs like a kitten and still pulls pretty good. My intent is to leave it be and would like to learn more.

Spare me any cinematography abuse - I'm keeping my day job Admittedly, though, it was a fun little project to edit and get to YouTube!

Edited October 28, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[Guest Pletch]

I have similar vacuum readings as yours but I have an issue with my carburetor. Let me know what you find?

[60FlatTop]

I hadn't seen this string come up when it started, interesting to see it now. No compression reading? Around 1960 it was impressed on me that Step 1 in a Tune-Up is the compression test. You gotta do it. Now, since 1960 I spent four years in the Navy and visited every bar in every port of call, last year I had a stroke, then a couple of seizures as is sometimes the case, all brain damaging stuff. Guess what, I still know you gotta do a compression test before you try to tune a car.

If you still don't want to do the test you can take off the valve covers and rocker arms. Then put your finger on top of the valve stem and feel it wiggle around. Our Buick s are tough on valve guides. That play you feel with your finger causes inconsistency in where the valve seats. Pretty soon the nice sharp seat edge spreads and loses its concentric seal (leaking by). That gives the low vacuum and MAP fluctuations. You might find one or two that are worse than the rest.

The head has to come off and the big issue is how to fix it. You have obvious wear on a couple of valves. Your engine has general wear in the cylinder bores, rings, and rod bearings. If you get all 16 valves redone with tight guides, tight seats, and good solid compression there is a real chance that the top end will be lots tighter than the bottom end. I am sure some of you have seen the "puffers" that result from a top end overhaul. The blow by of the rings can't handle the new raised compression. You usually see the blue smoke under the car coming from the road draft tube.

On my cars I have fixed the real bad ones and just asked the shop to do a hand lap on the rest. That way I can bide my time and maybe even avoid a full rebuild.

Probably not the answer desired, although for the cost of a set of valve cover gaskets one or both of you is going to go "Wow!" when you wiggle that valve stem. Good luck.

Bernie

Edited October 29, 2012 by 60FlatTop (see edit history)

[old-tank]

Some observations and questions:

1-you worry too much

2-what does the vacuum gauge reading look like on another engine....it looks like it is reading every cylinder with each oscillation.

3-nailhead cams have long duration and overlap like performance cams in lesser engines and that is what the reading looks like.

4-I am too lazy to go check one of mine.

Willie

[KAD36]

We can check it together in South Bend - heck it took me over 3 months to get back to John, you have till next July! After a couple of us get a few cold ones that gauge will smooth right out!

Remembering my other car that had vac gauge idled at 700-800 in drive, maybe the higher idle smooths the gauge out - it seems conceivable there is a low end rpm where the steadiness of the vacuum in the manifold more naturally begins to reflect the pulsations in the engine. None of my past cars could ever idle under 500 in Drive without stumbling and stalling out. At some specified RPM it should be steady, so there is probably some minor wear somewhere.

Bernie - the compression on mine is below spec but all cylinders are within 2-3 lbs of each other. Theres some blowby, but no blue smoke or anything out the tailpipe. My ride followed me all the way home from Utica and the car ran clean. Next time I have the valve covers off I'll check the stems - now I'm kinda curious.

Maybe when someone working on an engine rebuild gets it going, they can pop a gauge on it and we can see what a new engine looks like. I think this whole vacuum gauge thing is cool - guess I am easily intrigued. Tune up a car with an old Stromberg vacameter, a Heathkit tach/dwell meter, a Monkey Wards non-inductive timing light that gives you a solid jolt every so often, and most important an acute ear. It just doesn't get any better than that!

Edited October 29, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

I like Willie's point #3 above. That makes good sense to me. I also had a valve job done back in the mid eighties, so our engines are quite similar. Mine does not burn oil or have blow by as far as I can tell. I still have intermittent hesitation right off an idle but after reading Jon's diagnosis page I think I want to try leaning the idle a bit.

Headed into winter I don't think I'm going to do much more till January. Then I want to replace the coil, and wires from the coil to, and within, my distributor. Then a new set of plug wires and points/condensor. After that I think I will just continue to drive it as much as possible. I can live with the slight intermittent hesitation.

And perhaps we can caravan to South Bend from some convenient meeting point. By the time we arrive maybe neither of us will give a crapola about vacuum readings? eh?

[buick man]

I hadn't seen this string come up when it started, interesting to see it now. No compression reading? Around 1960 it was impressed on me that Step 1 in a Tune-Up is the compression test. You gotta do it. Now, since 1960 I spent four years in the Navy and visited every bar in every port of call, last year I had a stroke, then a couple of seizures as is sometimes the case, all brain damaging stuff. Guess what, I still know you gotta do a compression test before you try to tune a car.

If you still don't want to do the test you can take off the valve covers and rocker arms. Then put your finger on top of the valve stem and feel it wiggle around. Our Buick s are tough on valve guides. That play you feel with your finger causes inconsistency in where the valve seats. Pretty soon the nice sharp seat edge spreads and loses its concentric seal (leaking by). That gives the low vacuum and MAP fluctuations. You might find one or two that are worse than the rest.

The head has to come off and the big issue is how to fix it. You have obvious wear on a couple of valves. Your engine has general wear in the cylinder bores, rings, and rod bearings. If you get all 16 valves redone with tight guides, tight seats, and good solid compression there is a real chance that the top end will be lots tighter than the bottom end. I am sure some of you have seen the "puffers" that result from a top end overhaul. The blow by of the rings can't handle the new raised compression. You usually see the blue smoke under the car coming from the road draft tube.

On my cars I have fixed the real bad ones and just asked the shop to do a hand lap on the rest. That way I can bide my time and maybe even avoid a full rebuild.

Probably not the answer desired, although for the cost of a set of valve cover gaskets one or both of you is going to go "Wow!" when you wiggle that valve stem. Good luck.

Bernie

Bernie: Thanks for the analysis it is appreciated and I learned a few things to boot!

[hchris]

Bernie: Thanks for the analysis it is appreciated and I learned a few things to boot!

Coming in late, I would agree with Bernie, classic vac guage behaviour when guides are worn, just finished heads on a Chrysler for the same thing;). There is another consideration and that would be a weak (or broken) valve spring, these give the same indications, broken springs you can often see with a strong light with the covers off; the fix of course is same as the guides - off with the heads, unless you are adventurous enough to try the rope or compressed air trick.

Having said all of that, the guides will probably last quite a while as they are and if you can rule out broken springs I would leave it alone FWIW

[KAD36]

Coming in late, I would agree with Bernie, classic vac guage behaviour when guides are worn, just finished heads on a Chrysler for the same thing;). There is another consideration and that would be a weak (or broken) valve spring, these give the same indications, broken springs you can often see with a strong light with the covers off; the fix of course is same as the guides - off with the heads, unless you are adventurous enough to try the rope or compressed air trick.

Having said all of that, the guides will probably last quite a while as they are and if you can rule out broken springs I would leave it alone FWIW

John - you're on! :cool:

So - more curiosity - I was doing a search last night and found on RockAuto and Napa a valve guide for the exhaust valve only and a valve stem seal. Whats the difference? The stem seals say you have to machine the guides to use them? Why? Can you use these guides on both intake and exhaust ? Bobs and CARS sites it listed the same part number for both intake and exhaust. Don't have my master parts book handy.

[old-tank]

Guides are the same. Original valve train did not have valve guide seals since the rockers put out a sparse amount of oil. Rebuilt and replacement rockers can really flood the area, so seals are needed. If not people will think you have a SBC installed.

Willie:D

[JohnD1956]

John - you're on! :cool:

I might have to paint my 56 so I can be seen with you and your 55.

[buick man]

Guides are the same. Original valve train did not have valve guide seals since the rockers put out a sparse amount of oil. Rebuilt and replacement rockers can really flood the area, so seals are needed. If not people will think you have a SBC installed.

Willie:D

No this idea is not correct. Only on the much later model nailheads are the valve seals used and by design, the rockers flood the area on these era nailheads. If seals are installed on the 53-64 nailheads it will create a too dry condition causing premature valve guide failure. I don't have the time right now to attach the links addressing this scenario. But the mantra here is No seals in the nailheads for these era nailheads.

[KAD36]

I might have to paint my 56 so I can be seen with you and your 55.

Thanks for the compliment John - but its a tired 50 footer/50 mph paint job at best and they would look great together. I replaced my busted welder with an Eastwood 135 - its a nice little machine - and picked up some metalworking tools to teach myself bodywork - intend to make up some dog legs and rocker panel repair patches this winter and clean it up some. Have not tried anything this intricate before. When I'm done putting 2 kids through college may pursue a full up paint job - either a DIY or outsourced - I just enjoy driving and tinkering with it too much to take it off the road for very long.

So, on the valve guides - Willie your point about the rubber seals jogged my memory - that was what the guy at the machine shop said who worked on the heads - that the valve guides had no rubber seals they were just metal inserts. He wasn't experienced in the older Buick engines. Now, that always seemed odd to me - don't you want to keep the oil out of the valve guides so it doesn't bleed into the cylinders (so you don't get that puff of blue smoke when the car starts in the morning)? Maybe the metal to metal clearance is just tight enough to allow some oil in for lubrication on the stems? It seems you and Dave are saying the same thing in principle - if you use original rocker arms, the oiling to the area is sparse and you don't need the rubber seals, if you have a newer nailhead or use replacement rocker arms that flood the area with more oil, presumably to correct for low oiling from the factory design, then you do need them - is that the guidance one would take when doing a rebuild?

Maybe if the seals aren't used then more reverb would be expected in the manifold and it would show up on the gauge.

Edited November 1, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[old-tank]

So, on the valve guides - Willie your point about the rubber seals jogged my memory - that was what the guy at the machine shop said who worked on the heads - that the valve guides had no rubber seals they were just metal inserts. He wasn't experienced in the older Buick engines. Now, that always seemed odd to me - don't you want to keep the oil out of the valve guides so it doesn't bleed into the cylinders (so you don't get that puff of blue smoke when the car starts in the morning)? Maybe the metal to metal clearance is just tight enough to allow some oil in for lubrication on the stems? It seems you and Dave are saying the same thing in principle - if you use original rocker arms, the oiling to the area is sparse and you don't need the rubber seals, if you have a newer nailhead or use replacement rocker arms that flood the area with more oil, presumably to correct for low oiling from the factory design, then you do need them - is that the guidance one would take when doing a rebuild?

Yes

Maybe if the seals aren't used then more reverb would be expected in the manifold and it would show up on the gauge.

Possible

Don't worry about a source for guides...when you take the head in to the machine shop they can supply and install, cut for seals if needed...

[KAD36]

That makes it easy - now I will know what to ask and check for.

Edited November 2, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[Guest Anthony C]

Hello to all, I'm new here. Maybe I can be of some assistance. If you feel you have a vacuum leak, the fastest and easiest way to find it is to. Put some gas in a spray bottle,(a bottle you would spray house plants with... set the nozzle to spray). Start the engine, let it warm up for about 15 minutes. Then spray small amounts of gas to suspected areas you think you may have a vacuum leak at. At the base of the carburetor, and the intake manifold gaskets. You can also try the throttle shaft of the carburetor as well. Make sure the air breather is on, and everything else is in place. If you have a vacuum leak, where ever you spray the gas the engine will increase in RPM's, because the gas is replacing air where the vacuum leak is. I hope this will help you, and I hope I explained it so you could understand it. Happy motoring, and take it easy, while you're going fast!

[old-tank]

Hello to all, I'm new here. Maybe I can be of some assistance. If you feel you have a vacuum leak, the fastest and easiest way to find it is to. Put some gas in a spray bottle,(a bottle you would spray house plants with... set the nozzle to spray). Start the engine, let it warm up for about 15 minutes. Then spray small amounts of gas to suspected areas you think you may have a vacuum leak at. At the base of the carburetor, and the intake manifold gaskets. You can also try the throttle shaft of the carburetor as well. Make sure the air breather is on, and everything else is in place. If you have a vacuum leak, where ever you spray the gas the engine will increase in RPM's, because the gas is replacing air where the vacuum leak is. I hope this will help you, and I hope I explained it so you could understand it. Happy motoring, and take it easy, while you're going fast!

WD40 will do the same thing and it is less likely that you and/or the car will end up as a "crispy critter".

[KAD36]

WD 40 and carb cleaner both would both give a change in RPMs and lead you to the leak more safely, especially by using the nozzle and pinpointing areas of common leaks vs a spray. Your advice makes sense and these products are simply safer. By atomizing an already highly flammable liquid in a spray bottle on a running engine, its hard to control where the vapors go and imagine if the fan blew the vapors back onto a bad plug or coil wire while you are spraying that near the carb. **Poof**. It would be like a scene from Wile-e-Coyote in an old Roadrunner cartoon...we don't want that!

Edited November 2, 2012 by KAD36 (see edit history)

[Guest Anthony C]

WD 40 and carb cleaner both would both give a change in RPMs and lead you to the leak more safely, especially by using the nozzle and pinpointing areas of common leaks vs a spray. Your advice makes sense and these products are simply safer. By atomizing an already highly flammable liquid in a spray bottle on a running engine, its hard to control where the vapors go and imagine if the fan blew the vapors back onto a bad plug or coil wire while you are spraying that near the carb. **Poof**. It would be like a scene from Wile-e-Coyote in an old Roadrunner cartoon...we don't want that!

KAD, you're right about the gas. We wouldn't want anyones Buick to go poof! 2+2 Gum Cutter Is also another good tool to use, and the straw is in fact better to pin point vacum leaks, the end user has better control in the process. An old timer showed me the trick with gas many years ago, I've used it a few times.

Looking at your AVITAR that's a nice looking Super KAD! My older brother Pat, (rest his sole) had one exactly like yours the same color in 1962. If my memory serves me right it had a 4 barrel carburetor on it. The big thing was the virtical pitch Dynaflow! At the time I was only 9 years old. I see your from the Binghamton, NY area, I was born and raised in NYC. That 55 Super my brother had made many trips to Hancock, NY from The Bronx. My Dad bought propery in Hancock area before I was born. Another brother lives there now, in fact I'm going up there next weekend to do some archery hunting before the season ends.

It's been nice making your acquaintance,

Anthony

[buick man]

Again .... no rubber seals required from early to mid late nailheads. Designed that way - Period. That kind of thinking is in the same vane as with having someone bore into your extremely shallow nailhead valve seats to install needless hardened seats for unleaded fuels. Another wrong approach. The high nickel content of the Buick nailheads of this era,

( unlike SBC and Fords etc ) do not require these hardened seats and if you do install them going into the water jacket is a very real easily obtainable outcome and once again a needless procedure in the first place. I would suggest doing some real research on this matter and call up some noted & dedicated Nailhead rebuilders and see what they have to say. Good luck.

[carbking]

Be aware that any time you spray a flamable material at the throttle body of a carburetor on a running engine in the area where the throttle shaft extends, the engine will increase in RPM. If the throttle shaft to throttle body clearance is zero, the throttle shaft will not turn.

Jon.

[Guest Anthony C]

Buick Man, do you have any photos of your 57 Roadmaster. I'm not familiar with the A model??? I know the 70 Series are Roadmasters, but what is considered an A model. 57's were the first year for ball joints, does the 57 have air plane shocks all the way around, or just the front.

[Guest Anthony C]

There's a reasonable amount of air the throttle shaft can bring into the engine. Then there's ridiculous amounts not many are aware of. Most folks would like to save a buck when it comes to carburetors, and the throttle is always let go for some reason. This is one of the most moving parts on a carburetor, if not the most. The base and throttle shaft tend to ware faster as they get older because of use.

[buick man]

Buick Man, do you have any photos of your 57 Roadmaster. I'm not familiar with the A model??? I know the 70 Series are Roadmasters, but what is considered an A model. 57's were the first year for ball joints, does the 57 have air plane shocks all the way around, or just the front.

I do and they have debut from time to time on this site, but are by necessity, closely held government documents that in a rare event and should the need arise, like the unlikely hood of a Romney/Ryan election the photos may need to be released. Pray that does not happen. Regarding the shocks they are A/C Delco hydraulic shocks and not Air Plane shocks.

[1957buickjim]

David, It seems that the government is going to require your release of the previously confidential photos of the said Buick Roadmaster for official documentation after the election. Especially where it involves the classified "air-plane" shocks vis-a-vis the standard Delco-Remy shocks that were issued with the said Roadmaster. Just doing my job.

[Guest Anthony C]

I'm sure AC Delco would be the name of the shocks, are they tubular shocks is what I'm asking All shock are hydraulic no matter what they're on or style they are. "The phrase air plane shocks" meaning tubular shocks. I don't quite understand what you're saying about the photos. Can you pleaseexplain? Thanks

[buick man]

David, It seems that the government is going to require your release of the previously confidential photos of the said Buick

Roadmaster for official documentation after the election. Especially where it involves the classified "air-plane" shocks vis-a-vis the standard Delco-Remy shocks that were issued with the said Roadmaster. Just doing my job.

All in good time, but no JIm that is a highly unlikely event granted "IF" Diebold does not switch and steal votes like in 2000 and 2004. But and "If" the most unlikely should occur, then I would need to be out selling the photos to raise cash to pay for their newly instigated, speculative and "privatized" stock market based Social Security Payment Plans that would likely hit us in the face in a couple of years and shortly after the privatizing of Schools, Police and Fire Departments has taken place ..... "Anything for a Buck"

Edited November 3, 2012 by buick man (see edit history)