buick5563 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Fins,I have friends who have used this guy. He can cut down a wheel, so you can use your original horn ring!Quality Restoration - Steering Wheel Restoration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 (edited) A fellow Riviera owner also owns a '57 Caballero. He updated it by sitting the wagon body on the frame of a '79 Century Wagon. He automatically came up with updated suspension, including disk brakes, cross flow radiator, a ladder frame into which he put a 425 nailhead, ST400 transmission, and GM 8.5 rear end. Parts are readily available for everything. and there was no need for an subframes, clips, or a bunch of body/frame modifications. It's an eye-popper! Here's a link. The picture wasn't labeled, but I'm sure this is Jim's car.http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2131/1988579413_35856fba06_b.jpgEd Edited June 20, 2013 by RivNut (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 20, 2013 Share Posted June 20, 2013 That sounds great. It is hard to find a frame to the correct dims. The 4th gen century has a 108" wheelbase (78 to 81) so perhaps you meant a 3rd gen, 73 to 77. with a 116" wheelbase, but we still are not at the 122" wheelbase. However, the frame might easily lend itself to adjusting the wheelbase. Perhaps you might have more info? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RivNut Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 If I see Jim at the ROA meet next week, I'll ask him some more about it. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 21, 2013 Share Posted June 21, 2013 We run the brake lines, gas lines and then take it all back apart. Powder coat, re-assemble and place a skylark on top. Unfortunately it won't be ready for the nationals this year. It wouldn't be a car project if it was done on time anyhow. If it all goes as planned- like it handles nice and the body drops on without issues, we might build up a few to sell if there is any interest. It's easy to replicate and we had the pans to check all the dims. I can jump on it and it doesn't move. The ride height is adjustable too, as an additional ton of Buick will need to be on it so we can fine tune the ride and the height. Some like to scrape the ground, some like a higher stance like myself. I'm not a big fan of airbags as they can leak, but that would be easy to do. The 54 to 56 small bodies are very similar, it looks like a 53 version might not be too difficult. A 57 is similar too, but the body is lower and everything is tight so it might take a bit more engineering to make a 57 frame. The 54 to 56 gives you lots of room to play with. As for the big bodies, I don't have a junker to slice up so it isn't likely. Believe we could sell the frames powder coated for under 10K without an engine and tranny, but with the rear end and brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 It that a convertible frame or one from a closed car? ( you probably mentioned it before, but I am too lazy to re-read 45 posts ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 (edited) it is from a sedan, boxing the frame for some extra rigidity. Would you have any recommendations on where to reinforce? center flex would appear to be the main issue. Looks like they add some extra body mounts but I'm not seeing obvious added braces on a convertible frame. It looks like they do add some body structure but I'm not seeing extra frame bracing. Any convertible can benefit from stiff side rails but it's real easy to add extra braces at this point and I welcome any ideas. Edited June 23, 2013 by 54fins (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 The reason I'm asking is that the "X" portion of the frame on my 55 convertible is thicker metal than on a 4dr hardtop frame (which also has fewer mount points --- there is much more floor 'meat' in the 4dr hardtop floor sheet). Is the 54 sedan frame the same in the "X" portion as the 54 Skylark convertible frame?Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pontiac59 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Usually the X is unique to the convertible styles and much heavier, as you mentioned. I'd be surprised if the Skylark isn't that way; the '53 I had was pretty heavy, even as rough as that car was it didn't seem to bend any. I would be afraid of a 1977-up GM frame under a '50s body, having cut one ('79 Electra) down to the floorpans and seeing the amount of twist in it then - with a floor still on it - as compared to the heavier '50s frame with the big X in even the sedans. They also were terribly rot-prone, I've seen even well-preserved looking cars from this era and the rear frame is rotted out in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I have shots of a Skylark frame and the Century sedan frame, which you would expect to be different. The Century did not have power brakes and that appears to be the big difference. Note the large brace for the power brake booster is set way back with a long actuator rod and a filler so you can add brake fluid. The filler tank is so far down by the steering shaft that it's very hard to access. The nice part is they all have the same wheelbase so a sedan makes a great donor for a convertible. I cant tell if the X brace is thicker steel from the photos but it is possible. It is possible that in 55 they beefed up the frame more. The Convertibles never seem to have a sagging problem with this vintage and the extra bracing is on the pan. Even rusted out convertibles seem to hold true on the frame (most convertibles are either restored or rusted out- not much in between) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 What year frames?? Ben Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 1954 Skylark and century Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PONTIAC1953 Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 1953 and 1954 pontiac convertible frames were made with thicker steel than the closed bodied frames were. i would think that other GM makes offering convertible models would have followed the same practice. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 That may very well be. The roof adds a lot of support, convertibles are very problematic. I'll check the steel, somehow the X member just looks lighter on the sedan frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caballero2 Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 1953 and 1954 pontiac convertible frames were made with thicker steel than the closed bodied frames were. i would think that other GM makes offering convertible models would have followed the same practice. charles coker, 1953 pontiac tech advisor.That is also true on '57 Buicks. - Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted March 30, 2014 Share Posted March 30, 2014 frame is done. Riviera 3.08 posi with a 4 link triangulated. Dual master, rack and pinion front end, coil overs and 11" disk brakes. 5 on 5 pattern with Riviera drums in the rear. The 425 and SP400 are ready to settle in. Can the body be transferred in the next 30 days? we shall see.:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 dressing up the 425 to look like a 322. The valley pan on the 322 is 1/4" longer, but the heads appear to be interchangeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 The engine is in. After a test run and a driveshaft it's time for a body. The ac compressor takes over for the generator and everything fits like it was meant to be. Going for 400 hp and it looks like it will bold the road- solid! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
421-6speed Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 (edited) Have you test fit your inner sheet metal with the AC bracket and alternator in place? I was unable to use that bracket as it placed the alternator to far outboard on my 57'. Edited April 7, 2014 by 421-6speed (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 yes, did not need much trimming. The 54 is a bit more bulbous than the 57. Only needed a light trim on the upper control arm. The 57 is a lot tougher, they lowered the car and lowered the profile. You had quite a project there, a lot less room to work with. I can see all sorts of issues you had that were not a problem on the 54. I do have a problem with the brake master under the car. Dual exhaust isn't easily done so I'm going to a single outlet. Not a problem, I'll use a larger dia pipe and now I only need to worry about 1 run. Then using a super quiet muffler but adding a bypass when I want to be obnoxious. The 3 deuce is very cool. Ultimately I'm trying to keep the mods as unnoticeable as possible. I also have another issue in that I want it possible to put the body back on the original frame. That way the car can be returned to OEM. Not that I care to have it stock, but it negates the argument of "how could you ruin a Skylark?" Well, I'll have the original frame and components stored away so anyone that doesn't like my concept can simply buy it from me and put it all back to original and put it in a museum or storage of their choice. If they can't afford it, then I guess they will just have to deal with it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 It will be interesting to see (feel) how the a/c works in a mid 50's convertible. I can't keep heat in my 55 if the temperature is below 50*...very surprising since closed cars were comfortable at -30*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted April 11, 2014 Share Posted April 11, 2014 I'm going top do an insulated headliner. Not worried about winter, it's stored anyhow. But 100 plus heat is hard to deal with in full sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The insulated headliner would certainly make the car quieter, with the top up, as in later model factory tops built that way. If it would not cause too much build thickness, a silver mylar layer in the headliner might offer some additional radiation reflectivity for the top (kind of like they spray on the underside of house roofs for the same reason). Using a plastic bubble-wrap kind of watershield for the door panels and such might help limit heat intrusion, too, just as the popular DynaMat can do for the floor pan and/or the Lizzard Skin ceramic spray-on coatings can do for the underbody areas.As for the exhaust system (single, large pipe), the earlier-1970s Chrysler Imperial application used a normal Chrysler-sized muffler with 2.5" inlet and outlet pipes. Same restriction as the famous Street Hemi muffler, but quieter. Not sure if the sizing might fit your chassis, though. I suspect that Walker Exhaust still has that muffler available (NAPA used to re-package Walker Exhaust items with the Walker part number on them).Sounds like the project is progressing nicely!NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 The lift just arrived, so it is time to transplant the body, then paint. The original frame can someday be restored, but for now black Betty is going to become Betty Boop in red. Why not black as the trim tag defined it? I am not going to wash and detail the car for a week to drive it for a day. Now I must choose the matador red or a metallic, single stage or a deep candy. I like the idea of buffing out scratches since it will be a driver. Guess I have a week to decide as I strip the front clip and the bling. The Buick red would keep the sleeper aspect, but with a deep clear, cut and buffed to look wet in a dessert. I'm more concerned with the stereo and the drink holders for now. I saw a 55 speaker cover made into a drink holder. Decision time. Carbs or fuel inj are also up for debate. Then rims, not sure if the kh rims can take burnouts. Probably have the kh wheels for show and a road set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I want you to hurry and put the air conditioning in it...curious about the efficiency if a/c in a mid 50's convertible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I have 2 Riviera AC units. The old ones are huge, but cool. A newer compressor will be much more efficient, but I might try out an old one just to see how well they work. I'm pretty sure that most old cars do not seal up the engine airflow, so at a crawl the engine heat just goes round and round the radiator. Not only is that vapor lock, but the AC condenser must cool the Freon or it wont work. Likely to add an electric fan and I have a plan to put a seal above and below the radiator. 100 F air is plenty cool, but 150F air from the engine is too hot. I had the same issue on my dodge truck, no ac at idle. Once I improved the airflow on the ac condenser it works great even at idle. I also think it's why we get parade overheat syndrome, but we shall see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted May 11, 2014 Share Posted May 11, 2014 I have 2 Riviera AC units. The old ones are huge, but cool. A newer compressor will be much more efficient, but I might try out an old one just to see how well they work. I'm pretty sure that most old cars do not seal up the engine airflow, so at a crawl the engine heat just goes round and round the radiator. Not only is that vapor lock, but the AC condenser must cool the Freon or it wont work. Likely to add an electric fan and I have a plan to put a seal above and below the radiator. 100 F air is plenty cool, but 150F air from the engine is too hot. I had the same issue on my dodge truck, no ac at idle. Once I improved the airflow on the ac condenser it works great even at idle. I also think it's why we get parade overheat syndrome, but we shall seeAll those issues can be worked out, I'm talking about keeping cold air in the convertible at highway speeds. Right now mine has trouble keeping heat in at an outside temp of 50*, whereas a sedan heated well at -20*. Most available units will put cold air in your face, everything else is hot.Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 good point! I am going to beef up the insulation, But a 50's convertible isn't very tight. No, it's not as tight as a Mercedes! I have some ideas for the top but this will be a challenge. Plan b will be a cooler of ice cold beer and an ac hose hooked to my shirt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Plan b will be a cooler of ice cold beer and an ac hose hooked to my shirtI like Plan B.I would personally opt for a modern AC unit vs. the Riv unit. I realize free is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 frame done! Body transfer time. Body gets picked up, undercarriage and cowl painted and dropped on theoretically next week. Body was already blasted so should not need much prep. Time is running out, Portland is a month away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buick5563 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Keep us posted on the brake situation.There is a guy asking about a 55 on General right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The scarebird setup is neat, but I used the original lever and pivot. The adapter was hand made to mount it to the non power brake position on a 54. The original power booster goes way in the back but modern setups are much smaller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 10, 2014 Share Posted June 10, 2014 (edited) No more flat black primerthe body requires virtually nothing for bodywork. lots of yellow brass work.They went nuts with the dum dum, it's everywhere. going back to red oxide primer, given the car is going red. 30 days and counting! Edited June 15, 2014 by 54fins (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 The body will go on the frame next week- it's moving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Getting the body on makes me a lot more optimistic that it will make Portland.. Certainly some loose ends, but if its a running, driving painted car it should be good. The frame lined up perfect, now it's a race. It sits solid, 2" lower and I can adjust a couple inches either way, but looks like we got the ride the way I wanted it. Low, but not too low. Car was skinned assembled, the gaps and lines are all right on. The matador red will get a very deep clear and a wet look cut and buff. Steering wheel goes in, with a smaller tilt wheel. Have a few more custom surprises, but everything is old school (well, except the rack and pinion) Staying with a carb and analog instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 paint done, 2 weeks to go. work we must! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithbrother Posted June 29, 2014 Share Posted June 29, 2014 Don't THRASH yourself to death. Looking good, Dale in Indy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted June 30, 2014 Share Posted June 30, 2014 if it wasn't for deadlines it would never get done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 distributor was off 180, re stabbed it and it started instantlyLots of brake line leaks, but otherwise movingfast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 54fins Posted July 4, 2014 Share Posted July 4, 2014 never found a 54 or 55 buick tach, but found a 50's boat tach that fit perfect. the 55 redline speedo gives a trip meter. A demon carb- wow, almost as good as fuel injection. Engine runs perfect- this carb was designed by a disgruntled Holley engineer to be the carb that actually works right. Holley rejected his design, and the carb is absolutely perfect. No air leaks, faulty venturis or sticky floats, I would highly recommend it. Looks like a final assembly weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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