AUTOMOTIVE PUZZLER

[RICK YOUNG]

PUZZLE ME THIS!!!!!!!

Since "CLICK & CLACK" aka Tom & Ray Magliozzi, the tappet brothers won't return my call.

Your opinions please.

How much gasoline will a mid 90's 4 cylinder (say a Buick Century or a Ford Taurus) burn in this situation????

* Start a cold engine (let's say @ 50 degrees F).

* Idle for 3 minutes

* Drive 10 standard city blocks no greater than 20 MPH, 3 stop signs.

* Stop and idle for 5 minutes

* Drive back same route

* Shutoff

* Total engine on 15 minutes.

Edited January 13, 2011 by RICK YOUNG (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Well, no idea to tell exactly without a measured fuel test, but here's my reasoning.

Let's say it's a fuel efficient car, and gets 30 miles per gallon on the highway.

If you were on the highway for 15 minutes, at 60 miles per hour, getting 30 miles per gallon, you'd burn 0.5 (zero point five) gallons, or half a gallon of fuel. 60mph/30mpg x 15minutes/60minutes = gallons.

But, you're not doing all the work of pushing the air out of the way going down the road at 60mph. So, let's say you'd burn half that amount. I'd say you'd burn about a quarter of a gallon of gas, or a quart of gas.

Does that make any sense?

[Larry Schramm]

If I was guessing without doing a mileage test, I would guess about 10 miles per gallon or less. From what you are saying, I would guess that the drive is no more than 2 miles. That said, the car is not even getting warmed up so it would still be in fuel enrichment mode most of the time.

Question: On the drive do you get any heat out of the heater? That would tell the temp of the engine. Also does the car have an engine temp gauge and if so what does it say at the end of the drive?

[NTX5467]

(Ford Taurus with a 4 cyl engine???)

Usually, after about 2 minutes of run time, the computer goes into closed loop operation. 8 minutes of idling, 2 of which will be in "open loop", out of a total run time of 15 minutes?

Acceleration "instant fuel economy" ususally is about 6mpg, even for a 4 cyl. From that speed, "coast" instant fuel economy might be only 30mpg (end result, depending upon how fast the computer backs the fuel off in "coast" mode), with "driving" fuel economy (usually in a lower gear at that speed) probably not being more than 15mpg.

NOT MENTIONED . . . How long the car sat at each stop sign as cross-traffic went by or was waited for, or if it was a four-way stop intersection. After starting the car, did it "back up" to get to the street or was it parked on the street, needing to signal and crank the steering wheel prior to pulling into traffic?

Is the trick part being how long "standard city blocks" are? Seems like I remember them being 1 mile each? And you're going to drive that little 4 cyl car 10 miles in 7 minutes at 20mph top speed???? No wonder C&C didn't call you back???!!! Yet, I can't see them resisting the opportunity to talk about such a thing . . . considering the other things they talk about on there.

NTX5467

Edited January 14, 2011 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Guest my3buicks]

Are we talking mid 90 gasoline mix or todays gasoline mix, that will make a difference also

[Barney Eaton]

Forgetting all the "facts" except run time........

Lets say a car gets 30mpg, it would burn 2 gallon an hour at 60 mph.

1 gallon in 30 minutes, so 1/2 gallon in 15 minutes.

At city speeds it should burn less, so something less than a half gallon

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Do I feel my leg being pulled, Rick??

Ben

[John_Maine]

4 cyl. Taurus - yes, when the Taurus first came out in 1986, there was a 4 cyl. 4 speed option. It was the 2.3 from the Topaz/Tempo. I believe Ford offered it for 2 years. Not many were equipped that way.

[Thriller]

Um, why is everyone assuming less fuel burned in town when all fuel economy ratings are for better fuel economy on the highway than for "city" driving? Typically, I think the city rating is probably something on the order of 2/3 of the highway number, so, the 15 minutes of city driving would imply 3/2 of the calculated highway fuel, or 3/4 gallon, assuming the 30 mpg number being suggested.

I recall standard city blocks being 1/10 of a mile, so 10 blocks would be a mile. That said, in city situations, it is more about how heavy you are on the foot feed (and brake) and how long the vehicle is running.

Time of year also has an impact. Right now, with colder temperatures and somewhat slippery conditions, tends to be poorer for fuel economy than dry roads in summer.

[buick5563]

Follow up on your New Years resolution. If it really is a mile, walk. It's good for you, and it frees up waistband space for more Spam

[RICK YOUNG]

I was waiting for Barney. I knew he would have a civil answer.

OK then;

* Obviously, I've never owned a Taurus.

* Each city block is 130 yards long

* Total trip is just over a mile

* assume at 10 minutes the engine starts to warm

* Time at each stop sign? This is a small town. So take extra time at each stop sign to be nosy and see whom is visiting whom's house. Wave (with all 5 fingers)at nosy old lady next door who's wondering where you are going. Dodge other neighber's dog off leash. You get the picture

* We are of course talking e-10 ethanol blend which is 89 proof made from corn cobs and fodder, not corn kernels.

SO!!!

Here is the total Puzzle.

We are instituting curbside recycling in our happy little town.

There are some who believe it is more envorinmentally and economically efficient to have everyone in town make the above described trip to the "Recycle Bin".

There are 500 households.

Curbside recycling costs 87 cents per week.

Edited January 14, 2011 by RICK YOUNG (see edit history)

[trimacar]

Hi- 87 cents per household, correct? So, if you're using a quart of gas (my guess, although it may be flawed reasoning), then at the current average in this area of $3.21 per gallon, it costs 80.25 cents to run your car to the recycle center. That's not counting oil, tires, and other maintenance costs, which can be amortized per mile driven.

Derek, good point on gas mileage, you'd be in lower gears some of the way so mileage would suffer.

The 87 cents makes more sense all the way around. Not only gas burned, but that's 500 x 15 = 7500 minutes (125 man hours) wasted, when you could be watching football......

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Or playing on the forum!!!

Ben

[NTX5467]

IF the curbside recycling is put into place, then would the other community recycling bin go away (at what mpg??)? That's what our municipality did, in a move to save money. It does appear that the curbside situation is not or has not been patronized as they had hoped. Yet they were complaining about the large paper recycling bins being used by "county" residents, too, who lived near some of them.

John, thanks for the education on 4 cyl Taurus vehicles. Thriller, thanks for the verification of the length of "city blocks". 5563, now we know that SPAM can be health food (of course, ANY food could be "health food" if that's all you have to eat to maintain your health)!

Now . . . if the recycling bin is only 1 mile away, that might lend itself to motivating your smaller recycling "can on wheels" down the sidewalk to the recycling bin and back, gaining the healthful benefits and rewards as 5563 mentioned. This would seem to be the "green" way to do it, being invironmentally conscious and all of that. BUT . . . as human beings exhale CO2, more during physical exertion, would the typical Buick Owner exhale more CO2 into the atmosphere in that one mile walk to the recycling bin (under heavier load!) and one mile back to "home base" ("cruise" mode) than the 4 cyl Taurus, running in 2nd gear for that same distance, produce?

Rick, if you're going to sit at the stop signs, waving to all of the neighbors, that would increase the "idle time" and result in poorer fuel economy. Rather, might this same time be reapproiated toward looking for cross street traffic which might not stop???

Of course, Barney could probably duplicate the specified driving route and schedule in his new Enclave! Using the various trip computer functions! It might not have "Fuel Used", but it could be figured up using the "Average Fuel Economy" function.

TTFN . . .

NTX5467

[Dandy Dave]

Get an old shoppin cart, and a dirty old coat. Fill the cart with recyclables and put a "homeless" sign on the front. Carry a pocket book and tie a plastic bucket to the front marked donations for Spam pie.... Push it there and back and you will have the exercize program, along with getting rid of the junk, and have the potential to pick up some loose change from strangers..... Oh,....What will the neighbors say???

No gas burnt... Priceless. Dandy Dave!

Edited January 15, 2011 by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

[Bill Stoneberg]

What isn't mentioned here is a lot of people wont recycle if you have to take it to a bin on the other side of town. Even a town the size of Jewell. Its too cold, its too hot, its raining, snowing, sunny etc.

Meanwhile if all you have to do is seperate it from the garbage into another bin and put it out by the curb, that is a easy task to do. 87 cents is cheap, when they instituded single stream recycling in Austin, my bill jumped about 5 bucks.

[Barney Eaton]

If you take your recycleables to town when you go to the post office or farm store, then there is no extra cost.

[Dandy Dave]

If you take your recycleables to town when you go to the post office or farm store, then there is no extra cost.

What town has a genuine old time farm store left? :confused: We have a tractor supply about 10 miles from here, but things are rather pricey. The good old Farm store we had here was a GLF, (Grange Leage Federation.) which was for the farmer, because it was run by the farmer. When it was bought out by "Agway" it was never the same. Geared to the "Second Home in the country crowd." It is also pricey, and try to find an old fashion pair of fencing pliers and staples between all the garden art and junk. :eek:.... Dandy Dave!

[RICK YOUNG]

Barney has (as usual) the correct consideration.

We have a "Farm Store" in Jewell.

It is not as it was 30 years ago. But as good as it gets.

Our #2 son manages a Orscheln Farm and Home Orscheln Farm & Home | Livestock | Pet | Fencing | Bird & Wildlife | Farm & Ranch . They are still a good old Farm Store. Soon you'll see baby chicks & ducks in the feed area.

A good lost leader as the little ones come in to see them. Also they sell feed all year to the people who buy the chicks/ducks.

Mufflers for a 8N Ford etc.

[Guest Jim_Edwards]

I was waiting for Barney. I knew he would have a civil answer.

OK then;

* Obviously, I've never owned a Taurus.

* Each city block is 130 yards long

* Total trip is just over a mile

* assume at 10 minutes the engine starts to warm

* Time at each stop sign? This is a small town. So take extra time at each stop sign to be nosy and see whom is visiting whom's house. Wave (with all 5 fingers)at nosy old lady next door who's wondering where you are going. Dodge other neighber's dog off leash. You get the picture

* We are of course talking e-10 ethanol blend which is 89 proof made from corn cobs and fodder, not corn kernels.

SO!!!

Here is the total Puzzle.

We are instituting curbside recycling in our happy little town.

There are some who believe it is more envorinmentally and economically efficient to have everyone in town make the above described trip to the "Recycle Bin".

There are 500 households.

Curbside recycling costs 87 cents per week.

Your "puzzle" gave me cause to evaluate a disposal problem that is a curse for most of us in rural areas and maybe you could apply my newly discovered solution. For those that don't know, its virtually impossible to find a means of disposing of old, broken, or just unwanted electronic items. No landfill operation will take them, and they really aren't that keen on plastics either.

So in thinking about the problem the Post Office commercial about their boxes that for one price anything you can get into it up to seventy pounds goes for a flat rate came to mind. So, having a number of dead VCR's, CD players, and computers that have accumulated because the nearest point that will take them is over 85 miles away I think I'm going to box all that crap up in a Postal flat rate box(s) and mail it to the EPA in DC and let them figure out what the hell to do with it. Neat thing is the Post Office will even pick it up so none of my personally purchased gasoline is burned and I don't have to take it ten miles to the Post office.

Edited January 19, 2011 by Jim_Edwards (see edit history)

[NTX5467]

On the www.bestbuy.com website, look in the "Services" drop-down menu for "Recycling". This will bring up a page with a "State" selection menu, as some states have different programs/standards than others do. Clicking on your particular state will bring up a page which lists many links and other specific information.

At one time, I think that Office Depot had boxes you could purchase to send your old electronic items directly to the recycler. Bigger boxes were $10.00 each, possibly? Check out . . . Recycling Electronics: How to Recycle at Office Depot - GoodCleanTech which is the Office Depot e-cycle page. Perhaps something can be found on this website that might help?

Enjoy!

NTX5467