Wire wheels for 1925 master

[ROD W]

Picked up wire wheels and axlse,s for a 1925 master Buick, but not all of the wheels are the same. Some with low central hubs and others with raised hubs. Also the brake mechanism,s are different on the two axlse,s. See photo,s. These are both different to the brakes on my 1925 master. I have wooden wheels on my car, thinking of changing over to the wire wheels.

Any advice.

Rod

[Mark Shaw]

In my opinion, it is not worth the trouble....

[Leif Holmberg]

The last photo show the axle to the left as a 1926-1928 and the right one axle is 1924-1925.(Not really sure it could even be 1927-1928 and 1924-1926)

Leif in Sweden.

[Guest Roger_Roy]

The last photo show the axle to the left as a 1926-1928 and the right one axle is 1924-1925.(Not really sure it could even be 1927-1928 and 1924-1926)

Leif in Sweden.

I think you got it '24 on the right

[Leif Holmberg]

If those front axles don`t looks like your Master they are Standard model as the year i wrote.All the parts on Standard models are smaller than Master models.

Leif in Sweden.

[pepcak]

The engine is Master as you know. I have the same wheel with raised hub on my 1928 Master (21"), they are known as ASH wire wheels (per parts list) but the nuts are engraved Buffalo Wire Wheels #A5, with interchangeable (riveted) car manufacturer insert. For sure you would need also rear hubs for wire wheels for your conversion. They should fit (at least on 1928 Master) on the same drive shafts. Brake drums can be modified from those for wood wheels. Do you have 4 wheels or just those 2 on pictures?

Edited November 14, 2010 by pepcak (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

It looks like ASH Wire Wheels Detroit has be bought by Buffalo Wire Wheels.

Is that right or ???????

Leif in Sweden.

[pepcak]

I have no proof of it, but it seems very likely so. My 1928 part lists for Master says "ASH wire wheels" as an option, (also Tuarc disc wheels!) but the nuts says "Buffalo Wire Wheel #A5". And my wire wheels are correct ones, I had 5 of them on the car. All the nuts are the same all round, inner ones right hand thread, outer ones left hand thread.

[Leif Holmberg]

This`s how it look without Buffalo letters in it.

Leif in Sweden.

[ROD W]

Thanks Everybody,

I have the locking nuts with Ash wheels Detroit on them. Some are bronze and others are aluminium . Also have four good 21" wheels and a number of 22"wheels in not so good condition, pitting on inside of rim. The rear axle I have has different brake,s to the one,s on the car.

[pepcak]

To me the rear axle and the front axle right at the picture are matching. If you say they do not match to those on your car, do you mean dimensionally? Parts for Standard Buick should be same in design / working principle but always noticeable smaller than Master. If you say they are different geometrically or functionally then they are different year.

To me you have enough material to TRY swap hubs with drums only to your existing axles or even swap the whole axles. Provided it dimensionally and geometrically fits, for sure I can talk only about 28 Master and all these seems older than that. Rear hub always move with drive shaft, I do not know anybody who succeded to split them...

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod. Bob here. Sure would like to talk to you about these buffalo pin drive wheels and hubs. 780 819 7404 

[Rod Wise]

Bob

I managed to collect a set of 22" Ash wire wheels for my 25 Master.   I have a number of different hubs but have not got around to sorting them out to see which suit the wheel's.

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod W. Bob here in Edmonton Alberta. Love to talk to you about Buick / buffalo wheels. 780 819 7404. Thanks 

[BobPilkie]

Rod I’m looking for the rear hubs for Buick buffalo A5 wheels. 

[BobPilkie]

Rod can you tell are the buffalo A5 for Buick masters and A4 for Buick standards. What care are you working on. 

[Rod Wise]

Bob,  I have Ash wire wheels for my 25 Master, that take a 6.00 x 22 tyre.   I don,t  know if the Ash wheels are the same as Buffalo wheels,  All the wire wheels in Aust seem to be Ash.

[MrEarl]

 

 

 

Wow @Leif Holmberg, never seen this one!  Anybody have one in relatively nice condition for display they might part with?

Edited February 26, 2023 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Leif Holmberg]

The picture above is a no.5 ASH outer cap I think.  I bought this  from "hubcap collektor" in AU 10-15 years ago, but it was was not right dimention for my 1924 4 cyl. Buick.

The picture here now are the ones I have on my 1924 4 cyl.Buick with 22" wheels. I think that are no.4 ASH caps, I don`t think they are the same as Buffalo wheel-caps.

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod Bob Pilkie here again. Do you have any spare rear Buick / buffalo or ash hubs. I have one spare front hub. 780 819 7404 I’m in Edmonton Alberta Canada 

[BobPilkie]

Hi again Rod. Will you please contact me. I’m trying to figure out the rear hubs for these Buick buffalo wire wheels. I see in your pictures there seems to be two types. I need 28 master which I think is a two part hub   Please call or email thanks 780 819 7404 bobpilkietransport@hotmail.com

[Layden B]

Maybe the catalog info will help.

Best
Layden

[BobPilkie]

Hi Layden so far I haven’t found the rear hubs two pc style for Buick / buffalo A5 . Somewhere out there someone will have them laying around. I’ll keep looking. That fellow in Australia (Rod) may have but I can’t seem to get him to call me. What car or cars do you have. Email if you like bobpilkietransport@hotmail.com  thanks

[BobPilkie]

Hi again Rod. Please if you get this message will you email me about the Buick wire wheels. I have Buick /buffalo A5 and I am looking for rear hubs. I have one rear hub but I think it is Buick standard. I need Buick master which I understand is a two pc rear hub. I also have a 1914 Buick motor and trany. Has been outside for years but maybe parts will fit your 1912 ???  Please email me at   bobpilkietransport@hotmail.com or call 780 819 7404. I’m in Edmonton Alberta Canada thanks 

[BobPilkie]

1925/28 Buick / buffalo wire wheels. Does anyone have the rear hubs that I could get some pictures of. I’m going to have to machine my own because I can’t seem to find any. I would love some pictures if someone could send them to me. With some measurements. I believe they are a two pace hub. My # is 780 819 7404 thanks Bob 

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod. Bob here in Edmonton Alberta Canada. When you do get to your ware house please see if you have one rear master  Buick /buffalo wire wheel hub. I really need one. I could make the inner pc but would be nice to have all the pcs bolts etc. please and thanks. 780 819 7404

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod. Bob here again. Do you by chance have one of the rear wire wheel hubs for the Buick master at your house in pcs. That you could take pictures of for me. Like I was saying i have front hubs and only one back hub. I only have the outer main rear hub. No inner pcs or all the funny bolts for them. Love some pictures. If you do get to your shop where you have them I’d sure like to buy one more outer hub if you have one. Im  working on a 28 master roadster. Thanks again. Bob. 

[BobPilkie]

Hi Rod. I found one front hub for Buick standard. A4 what size are you looking for thanks Bob 780 819 7404 

[michael.stumpf]

Not wanting to hijack this thread but I live in Brisbane Aus and am looking for a rear set of A5 caps, retaining rings, mounting hubs (for rear axle) and the wrench and one or two dummy hubs. If there is anyone in Aus who has any of these items, please give me a call 0414 827 276 

Edited February 25 by michael.stumpf (see edit history)

[BobPilkie]

Hi Michael bob here in Edmonton Alberta Canada. What car are you working on. I have a 28 Buick master roadster. I’m putting Buick / buffalo A5 wire wheels on it. I’m short one rear main hub. I can machine the inner pcs of the hubs. I think I know what to make. I’d love some pictures if you have any rear hub pcs. Do you need both rear hubs ?  And the nut and cap ?  I have inner buffalo rear hub pcs but I don’t know what kind of car they are for. I’ve heard other brands used buffalo wheels too.

[michael.stumpf]

Hi Bob, 

Yes, both hubs and both nuts (retaining rings) and caps. The fronts I have are Ash, don't knop if any parts are interchangeable but as long as the fronts are the same and the rear are the same (even if different from the front) I could probably live with that.

From the information posted by Layden B on July 9 23 about Buffalo Wheels (remembering mine are Ash wheels)

A5 Rims:

- Inner Hub A5 30613

- Grease Retainer A5 30618

- Lock Cap A5 31299 or A5 33014

- Retainer Ring A5 30772

- Wrench 172324

- Dummy Hub A5 30275

I think the above is correct given what little I know and what little info is available. Like I said is someone has a set of for Buffalo wire wheel attaching parts then I'll but those and sell on the Ash stuff that I have.

Ta

Mick

 

Similar to photo attached...

Edited February 27 by michael.stumpf (see edit history)

[BobPilkie]

Hi again that’s the hub I’m looking for too. It’s a two pc hub. The main outer hub and another pc that bolts to the brake drum and kinda sandwiches the bearing. I will machine the inner pcs. I do have one rear hub. And I bought modern sealed bearings. What car do you have. A master has 14 “ brake drums and a standard has smaller 12” drums. The rear hubs are different too. 

[Hubert_25-25]

I have a bent brake drum on this 1927 Buick Master with Buffalo wheels.   As you can see I have brake contact on one side of the drum and not on the other. 

- Not sure if this drum is salvageable.  Do any shops straighten drums?

- Are these the same drums as used on all Master Models of this vintage?  I am open to purchasing a used drum.

- removing the 6 nuts only allows the drum to move toward  the backing plate about 1/8".  It is not allowing me to gain access to the bearing retaining nut.  

- Will removing the large axle nut allow me to get to the bearing nut?  I do have to remove the large nut because I noticed it is missing the nut locking tab.  

Thank you,    Hugh

 

[dibarlaw]

Hugh: From our phone conversation yesterday. This is what the Wood Wheel arangement looks like on my 1925 master.

 

 Photo of when I had to use a puller to remove the right rear wheel. As I said this was the only wheel doing any braking. The drum was 3/16" out of round and the internal surface was well worn as I believe the parking brake had to be used to stop the car. That made the drum hang up on the internal band. That is why the puller was needed.

The bearing retaining nut that holds the wheel/hub to the axle tube is 2 1/2" hex. I do not recall if it was 16 thread or 20 thread. The left side is LH thread. The hub cap wrench tool I had has the 2 1/2" hex onthe opposite end.

Also some other info for period Master rear axle. I had taken photos when I had the wheel off of the internal and when I redid the bushings on the brake shafts. I believe I deleted them.

 

 

[Hubert_25-25]

Larry, 

    Thank you for the pictures of the 2 rear wheel types on the Master.  I do not have this "drive flange" set up as in the first picture where the axle typically stays with the drive flange during normal maintenance and I don't know when if ever there would be a need to remove the drive flange from the tapered shaft.

I believe in my case, I need to remove the nut that is under the hub cap.  It is a 1 13/16" nut.  I hope to be able to use a 46mm socket on it.  I will also need to use a puller to remove this outermost hub from the axle.  Funny that they call this the inner hub and inner hub puller, but it looks like the outer hub to me.  

I don't see any other way on these Buffalo style wheels but to separate the axle from the drive flange.   

They show a screw on flange puller (inner hub puller) in the Buffalo parts which screws onto the wheel lock threads, but I am hoping to accomplish the same using an 8" Jaw puller.

 

As for the "Rear Hub mountings" , I think this is the other half of the 2 piece hub that is showing outside the brake drum.    

Hugh

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2 by Hubert_25-25 (see edit history)

[BobPilkie]

Hi again that’s the hub I’m looking for too. It’s a two pc hub. The main outer hub and another pc that bolts to the brake drum and kinda sandwiches the bearing. I will machine the inner pcs. I do have one rear hub. And I bought modern sealed bearings. What car do you have. A master has 14 “ brake drums and a standard has smaller 12” drums. The rear hubs are different too. 

[BobPilkie]

That hub and axel should come out as one pc. That rear axel on the buck master is a floating axel. Should just pry out.  Might be stuck on the bearing. 

[Hubert_25-25]

 

Yes,  The Buick Master is a full floating axle.  The hub and the axle SHOULD be able to stay together and pull straight off once the 6 nuts are removed.  They are not sliding off.  The "rear hub mounting (photo above)" appears attached to the brake drum some how.  The rear drum is warped - likely from someone trying to pry against it to separate the 2 parts.  So not sure what to pry against or pull against to get the two hubs to separate.  The gap between the 2 hub pieces is the "rear hub mounting" and the drum moving towards the backing plate.  I don't really want to use a slide hammer on the wheel hub and damage the wheel bearings.  Looking for advice from anyone who has separated these 2 parts.   Thank you,          Hugh

 

[BobPilkie]

Does that car have 12” or 14” brake drums. 14” is master. I see a gap between the outer hub and inner hub/ brake drum plate. With two big screw drivers you can’t pry it out not pushing on the brake drum. The outer hub might be stuck on the bearing or the axel spline in the diff is worn bad and gets stuck to the spider gear. I have one axel that has a real bad spline. Will have to replace. 

[Hubert_25-25]

This is a 14" Master.  The drum is slid back flush against the backing plate.  This leaves a 1/4" gap between the 2 hubs.  It does not want to let go of the wheel hub.  screwdriver prying will damage the brake drum.  I believe it is stuck or something is holding it in this outer bearing area outside of the drum.  Rod, have you been able to separate the hub that is showing on your trailer?      Thank you,   Hugh