55 Century 66R Project

[J3Studio]

I received the pistons today from Russell Martin. I am not happy at all. The piston dome is totally different and there is no way these will provide 9-1 compression. They are a joke.

The pistons measure from left to right.

Old: 2.195 New: 1.600

Front To Rear Old: 3.550 New: 3.310

Valve Relief Cut Old: Level with top of piston New: .155 Deep

This stuff makes me crazy - they're called reproduction parts.

"Reproduction: the action or process of making a copy of something"

Why does the hobby let companies get away with this?

[Mudbone]

I had a long talk with EGGE on Friday. (I sent them one of my pistons) He says they make three pistons for the 322. 54, 55, & 56. Their piston for a 55 Buick 322 actually measures slightly taller than my original. We will see. I am going to order a set and do a resin mold. Then we will know. Mud

[Mudbone]

Pistons from EGGE. I am concerned about the raised area next to the dome. Im not sure what the clearence will be. Mud

[Mudbone]

I was told today that my stock pistons that came out of my 1955 322 engine are aftermarket. He said they are made by Bohnalite. Has anybody heard of this company? The pistons have Buick cast into them. I doubt an aftermarket company would put Buick on them.

My understanding is that in 55 the sales were higher that expected and that Buick had a difficult time building all the cars they sold. Is it possible Buick had other companies make pistons for them to keep up with demand? I know the Dodge Brothers made Model T Ford engine parts in the early years but they are considered genuine Ford parts made to Ford’s specs. If any body has their original pistons lying around I would like to see pictures of the top and side to compare with mine (1954-1956)

[smithbrother]

I would say IT IS VERY POSSIBLE that Buick farmed out the manufacturing of pistons, plus many other parts. GM has for years worked from the program, JUST IN TIME, where farmed out products arrived at the assembly plant, JUST IN TIME. I would guess they work under this program, or something like such today. They don't have the room for one thing to warehouse all the parts needed, Many factor go in to farming out parts, and it ISN'T a bad thing, IMO.

Dale in Indy

[buick5563]

Hey Mud,

I have a few originals from my convertible. The side with Buick printed on it has the same number as yours, so I didn't post a pic. Top of piston looks the same as yours as well.

I believe yours are original to the car, maybe just manufactured somewhere else.

The other side is this :

[buick5563]

If you want to actually compare 'em side to side, I can send you one. They're just pencil holders or ashtrays at this point....

and since I haven't smoked in a long time, and I have a pencil holder already, plus I gave Uncle Bob three of the good ones...

Just let me know

[Mudbone]

If you want to actually compare 'em side to side, I can send you one. They're just pencil holders or ashtrays at this point....

and since I haven't smoked in a long time, and I have a pencil holder already, plus I gave Uncle Bob three of the good ones...

Just let me know

A photo of the other side and top would be good. The person was defending the way their pistons were made so when he saw the other name on the piston he took a cheap shot and said you can’t compare yours with mine because yours are not original either. What, ever! I just don’t understand. If you are going through all the trouble of making the thing, what more would it cost to make them right? He must think this is the first engine I ever had apart. Mud

[old-tank]

Mud

Mike is traveling today, so he asked me to upload the 2 pictures of his original piston; also I uploaded a picture of one of the low compression pistons EGGE sent to me. I saw the pistons yesterday and they look like yours except for the name. I am certain that yours are original to your engine. I have seen some replacement pistons in 322's and none had 'Buick' or a part/casting number.

Willie

[Mudbone]

Mud

Mike is traveling today, so he asked me to upload the 2 pictures of his original piston; also I uploaded a picture of one of the low compression pistons EGGE sent to me. I saw the pistons yesterday and they look like yours except for the name. I am certain that yours are original to your engine. I have seen some replacement pistons in 322's and none had 'Buick' or a part/casting number.

Willie

Thanks for the photo’s. I found it hard to believe that someone would replace all standard bore pistons with after market ones unless they were higher compression or something. When I was in high school I rebuilt my 264 in my special and I had one piston that had a damaged ring land. I was able to get one standard piston from J.C. Whitney in Chicago. It wasn’t even in a box. It was black with oxidation and it was an original Buick piston also. I drove that one a few years with no problems. Mud

Edited April 19, 2012 by Mudbone (see edit history)

[Mudbone]

The block has been finish bored and honed. Cam bearings and balancing is next. Mud

[Mudbone]

I got the call today. The engine work is done. They are still waiting on main bearings. I may have to find them somewhere else. Now I'm so busy I won't be able to pick it up untill next week. Mud

[Mudbone]

I made time to pick up the engine, as I didn’t want it just sitting around and possibly getting dirty or rusty. They said the block was just cleaned and ready for assembly. As I am still waiting for main bearings I decided to spray it down with light oil and re-bag it. I hope to start assembly as soon as the main bearings come in. Mud

[jackofalltrades70]

Woooooooooooo. Pretty! I like me very, very much!!! Keep us posted. Looks great. Matt

[Mudbone]

Well, I got the main bearings. Now all I have to do is find time to work on it. Heading down to Champaign, IL this weekend to help my brother install new king pins and bushings in the 1926 Model T Ford. That will be a change of pace. Mud

[Mudbone]

I found a few hours to install the crankshaft. I ended up with .0015 clearances on the main bearings. The problem I have now is the endplay is on the high side. .009. The machine shop said it is too much. The book reads .004-.008 I would like to see about .006 Now what? I guess I can try another set of generic bearings. Mud

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Ever have one of those days in the shop, when everything just goes really well?

[RivNut]

Rob,

Very entertaining. I'm assuming that this isn't the first time you've done something like this. Degree in film animation????

Thanks.

Ed

Edited July 12, 2012 by RivNut (see edit history)

[1957buickjim]

Rob, first time I saw this..what a hoot!! Reminded me of how I tore down then put Old Bessie together, sometimes it seemed at that same speed! And of course, there are always a few extra parts

[Guest Killerbunny]

Ever have one of those days in the shop, when everything just goes really well?

Just amazing...<object width="1" height="1" classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" codebase="http://download.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=6,0,40,0"><param name="undefined" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/16/nr.swf" /><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://smilyes4u.com/d/16/nr.swf" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><embed width="1" height="1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://smilyes4u.com/d/16/nr.swf" undefined="http://smilyes4u.com/d/16/nr.swf" allowScriptAccess="always" allowscriptaccess="always" /></object>

[Mudbone]

I found a few hours to install the crankshaft. I ended up with .0015 clearances on the main bearings. The problem I have now is the endplay is on the high side. .009. The machine shop said it is too much. The book reads .004-.008 I would like to see about .006 Now what? I guess I can try another set of generic bearings. Mud

I finally had some time to work on the engine again. I reset the endplay by lightly taping the main caps to offset them slightly. (This is what the machine shop has been doing for years and they have not had any problems) It worked great. I set it at .005. It turns over nice. I am still waiting for my camshaft. It should be here next week. Mud

[Guest 4 bufords]

can't wait to see the cam being installed,really not a mechanic but this thread really gets my attention,good luck and maybe we will meet in south bend,4 bufords from ct

[Guest Rob McDonald]

MUD, is that "taping" or "tapping"? Either way, I can't visualize how that effects the end play of the crank. If you mean tapping the main caps with a hammer, is that after they're torqued down?

Don't know why I'm asking. With any luck, I'll never again have another engine spread all over my garage.

Well duhh... I noticed that you include another wonderful video clip. You were in fact tapping the rear main cap with a punch, to twist the bearing slightly. I still have a question, though. With the dial gauge set on the end of the crank, how did you shift the crank forward and back to determine the end play? Obviously, I've been more blindly trusting of my machine shop and haven't looked for this variable.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Rob McDonald
read the fine print (see edit history)

[Mudbone]

MUD, is that "taping" or "tapping"? Either way, I can't visualize how that effects the end play of the crank. If you mean tapping the main caps with a hammer, is that after they're torqued down?

Don't know why I'm asking. With any luck, I'll never again have another engine spread all over my garage.

Well duhh... I noticed that you include another wonderful video clip. You were in fact tapping the rear main cap with a punch, to twist the bearing slightly. I still have a question, though. With the dial gauge set on the end of the crank, how did you shift the crank forward and back to determine the end play? Obviously, I've been more blindly trusting of my machine shop and haven't looked for this variable.

Sorry, I meant tapping. When I first installed the main cap I set the thrust bearing by tapping on the crank with the rear cap slightly loose to center the bearings. I then torqued it down and checked the end play. I had .010. In a perfect world the end play should have been .004-.008. (I was prying the crank back and forth from the next main cap) After this I called the machine shop. As the rear main cap is not pinned in any way there is some very slight play around the bolts and caps. I took the crank back out and started over as I had already sealed the cap in place. I installed a new rear main seal and all. This time I installed the crank, sealed the cap and torqued them all down. I then loosened the rear thrust cap and tapped the cap lightly forward. I then checked the endplay. It took several tries. I then torque the rear cap and checked it again. All it is doing it pushing one half of the cap/thrust bearing half forward a few thousands. Does that make sense? I didn’t understand it at first but when you have the bearings in front of you it makes sense. I feel this is the better choice than leaving it at .010. Mud

[Guest Rob McDonald]

Yup, makes sense today. Guess I had to sleep on it. Please continue.

[old-tank]

Thanks for the explanation. I'm still learning. I know the importance of minimal thrust, but never heard of this correction..luckily none of mine were out of spec. Except for the 51 truck (before installing the nailhead) the old flathead had over 1/8" thrust (noted when depressing the clutch)...it got so bad that the clutch would not disengage until I drilled a new pivot hole in the linkage.

Willie

[Mudbone]

I finally received the camshaft from schneider. I installed the cam, sprockets and chain only to find that the chain is loose. I cleaned up the old chain and installed it with the new sprockets and it is nice and snug. This was most likely a newer chain with only a few miles on it as was the brakes, kingpins etc. Moral to the story: I slightly worn old original part is better than a new aftermarket part. Mud

[old-tank]

...another item to add to the list of pitfalls and poor parts for nailheads...

[avgwarhawk]

I agree with the moral to the story. The last time I saw play in a chain like that was on a Buick 455. Everytime the timing light flashed the balancer looked like it was rotating a different direction.

[Mudbone]

I had time to pull the pushrods out of the “parts” engine I bought. I now have 13 good original pushrods. Does anybody have three more? At this point I think I will stay away from aftermarket pushrods. Mud

[Guest shadetree77]

That might be a good idea. I went through a push rod fiasco with CARS. I still ended up with something that looked completely different than the stock parts. Seems nobody makes push rods like the originals (at least for straight eights). I tell you though, watching you go through all of this trouble with engine parts doesn't get me very excited about rebuilding my straight eight down the road. Good luck buddy!

[old-tank]

I had time to pull the pushrods out of the “parts” engine I bought. I now have 13 good original pushrods. Does anybody have three more? At this point I think I will stay away from aftermarket pushrods. Mud

Mud

I have some pushrods. Just to be sure...you do have 55 lifters and not 56, right? And that new cam: is it a steel 55 cam?

(53-55 used a steel cam with compatible lifters and the pushrods were longer than 56...56 used a cast cam with compatible lifters. The overall lenght of lifters/pushrods are the same)

Willie

[buick5563]

I have some also. I'd be happy to send em for shipping only.

(I know Willie would do the same and he offered first...don't want to offend his delicate sensibilities)

[Mudbone]

Mud

I have some pushrods. Just to be sure...you do have 55 lifters and not 56, right? And that new cam: is it a steel 55 cam?

(53-55 used a steel cam with compatible lifters and the pushrods were longer than 56...56 used a cast cam with compatible lifters. The overall lenght of lifters/pushrods are the same)

Willie

The cam is a regrind from a 401. They call it an RV Cam. They say it will give better mid range torque and better MPG. The lifters match the cam. They said I should not have any problems using the original push rods. At this point I take everything with a grain of salt. We will see if it all works out. The push rods are about 8 & 3/8" Long. Mud

[old-tank]

Mud

8 & 3/8" Long matches my old 55 pushrods. That 401 cam is a cast cam and I would bet that the supplied lifters are for 56 (and later nailheads). The 55 pushrods are longer than 56 pushrods. 56 lifters and 56 pushrods can be used a 55 as long as used together and will have the same overall length as 55 lifters and 55 pushrods. A quick visual check will show a deeper pocket in the 55 lifter where the pushrod sits. If you still have your 55 lifters compare the overall length of pushrod plus lifter in old vs new. If there is a part number on the new lifters, see if you can cross reference the application.

The nailhead in my 51 F-1 had 56 cam and lifters with 55 pushrods; it ran, but very poorly...with 56 pushrods it screams.

Willie

[Mudbone]

I just got an e-mail from schneider. Now they think they will not work. Before they told me they would be fine. I originally wanted a stock cam. They talked me into a RV cam. more torque and better MPG. Now there not sure what pushrod length will work. Does it ever end? Mud

[old-tank]

I started using 56 cam + 56 lifters + 56 pushrods because:

1-no new 55 cams available and regrinding=$$

2-56 lifters cost 1/3 as much as 55 lifters.

3-55 pushrods are made of unobtainium.

The only trouble I have had with 56 pushrods that are currently available is the fatter tube rubbed on some casting flash in the head where the pushrod goes, and the ball from the end of one detached.

It's better to know now before you start it.

Willie

[Mudbone]

Here we go again! I just got the rockers and shafts from xxxx. The right ones are new reproductions. They look real good. The left ones are rebuilt. They ground the face down so far on some they are not serviceable. The pushrod pockets show noticeable wear. When I ordered them it reads steel reproduction. They will be going back. What a bunch of BS, Mud

[avgwarhawk]

Some of these rockers are horrid. I understand your disgust.

[Mudbone]

Some of these rockers are horrid. I understand your disgust.

They responded and said I got part of someone elses order. Now I have to return all of them and they will ship me the correct ones. Mud