WARNING: DEFECTIVE INNER TUBES

idrjoe_sandiego · August 1, 2010

Anyone can make a mistake, but when it comes to safety, there is no excuse for the story I am about to tell. Normally I am not that vocal, but when it comes down to product SAFETY issues, we need to speak up and be heard. If not, one of us, one of our family members, or one of our classic cars might fall victim to sellers of DEFECTIVE merchandise.

At the end of last year my Dad and I purchased six brand new wide whitewall tires, complete with new flaps and inner tubes from a well known seller of classic car tires: **** Classic Tire Company. The tires and tubes were mounted and balanced. Less than one week later, three of six tires were flat. The wheels hadn't even been mounted to the car yet. The very next day, a fourth suffered the same fate.

We broke the wheels back down to discover the four inner tubes had 12-16 inch splits in them, all in exactly the same place-centered on the valve stem.

So Dad phones a sales rep at **** Classic Tire who kindly and quickly offers to replace all six tubes. Dad asked if they wanted the old tubes back. He said, "No, we don't want to pay to have them shipped back, but next time you are in the area, you can bring them in." The defective tubes were labeled "MADE IN DENMARK". **** Classic Tire Co. promptly shipped out the new ones, which also were "MADE IN DENMARK".

Shortly after installation, the tubes began to blow again. Four tires had 400-500 miles on them and the two spares had zero miles. Last week, one of the new batch literally blew while I was standing next to the car. I had driven about three miles to a friend's shop to show him the car, and about a half-hour later, as I was about to leave ....PSSSSSSSSSSTTTTTT!!!! the right rear tire flattens in a matter of three seconds. Thankfully this didn't happen on a busy California freeway- who knows what disaster might have happened.

Its bad enough for **** Classic Tire Company to sell this dangerous defective crap, but to KNOWINGLY CONTINUE to sell it...??? It's likely that this seller knew about the problem since they didn't even want to see the defective ones. What company sends out warranty items without seeing the defective items? And what company worth their salt would not investigate the cause of the defective items before shipping more of the same defects??

I feel that this should be reported to the Department of Transportation and a recall be issued to warn the public of this problem. Needless to say, I am done with **** Classic Tire Co.

I know that at least one of our fellow DB club members has had a similar experience, however, I don't know where his tubes were purchased or manufactured. If anyone has a similar story, please share it with the forum community, as it could be a matter of LIFE or DEATH.

Please see the pictures: the dates on the photos indicate whether from the first batch or second batch. The splits always originate just adjacent to the valve stem.

One more thing, does anyone know whether an inner tube is required to have a date stamp like a tire? If inner tubes are exempted by the DOT, this law should be changed.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz
Joe, see your PM (see edit history)

nearchoclatetown · August 1, 2010

Joe, we talked about this in G-burg. Sorry to hear you are still having trouble. I bought six tires and tubes from the east coast tire dealer for my DA. HAd the same problems, one tube never even made it into the tire. I've always put a few pounds of air into a tube to expade it, let out the air then installed it into the wheel and tire. WHen I expanded this one tube it literally blew up in my face. The rubber could be torn like and old newspaper. Another blew while putting air into it while mounted, good thing my wire wheel rings held. The dealer tried to blow, pun intended, my off saying I pinched the tubes, 4 out of 6. When my buddy called, who is one of their dealers they finally admitted knowing they had a problem. My bad ones were marked "Made in E.E.C." wherever that is? The so far good replacements are made in Denmark, just opposite of Joe's. When they finally agreed to give me new tubes I refused the made in EEC ones, they acted like they were all the same. MAybe they are?! I don't have near the miles on my DA that you do, but I've not had any trouble lately. I too think this is a serious problem. I can't imagine any company knowingly selling defective products, ESPECIALLY tires or tubes. Good thing DA's are so slow!!

idrjoe_sandiego · August 1, 2010

EEC

EUROPEAN ECONOMIC COMMUNITY

The EEC (European Economic Community was formed en 1958 after the Treaty of Rome by six countries, Federal Republic of Germany, Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, France and Italy. Their goals were to achieve a new age of peace, democracy, cooperation and economic union and prosperity between the European nations and citizens after the WWII. In 1973 Denmark, UK and Ireland join the EEC, in 1981 is Greece the new member and in 1986 Spain and Portugal. After the treaty of Maastricht in 1992 the EEC became the European Union due to the more ambitious goals in the post cold-war Europe where the political unification looked a realistic possibility.

keiser31 · August 1, 2010

Those tubes may as well say "Made in EEK"! Good to know about those tubes crapping out on you, Joe. I may have some spare "Made in USA" tubes in my shop for you. I will excavate today.

August 1, 2010

This may be off the subject a bit but I don't use car/truck tubes in my antique tires. I was a motorcyclist before I got into antique vehicles and when I went to install my 1st set of new tires ,5.25/5.50X19", I used motorcycle tubes because I was having trouble finding car tire tubes that large. I have since used nothing but motorcycle tubes because it has occurred to me that motorcycles never get flats. It would be catastrophic. I've never had one and I know no one who has. And just like motorcycles I put only maybe 2 or 3 pounds of make up air in a tire per year. You can't buy the sizes like 5.25/5.50X19 but you can find something close. I found it doesn't matter if the tube is slightly larger or smaller. It will fill the space regardless. Some have been in place for 25 years.

Phil 32DL6 · August 1, 2010

I have since used nothing but motorcycle tubes...

It sounds like you've had good experience with this, but I wonder if there's any difference in the load ratings between tubes meant for bikes vs cars?

For example, my 32 DL6 weighs a tad over 3000lbs plus add a couple of passengers to make 3500lbs. I'd guess the load is spread maybe 60/40(?) front/back, so that would put around 1000 on each front wheel. Some of those 30s luxury cars are a lot heavier than a Dodge.

I suppose some behemoth bikes might check in close to that(?), but I'd say the average bike would carry considerably less.

Maybe there's (supposed to be) enough safety factor built in to all tubes? Any thoughts?

LennyDaVinci · August 1, 2010

Hi all,

I have had the same trouble in Australia. My order for 6 new Goodrich tyres, tubes and rust bands for my DA arrived, and two of the tubes deflated on the car without ever leaving the garage. Investigations revealed "Made in Denmark", and the supplier replaced them free of charge. I only worry that the other 4 are destined to blow at some unpredictable time. They split, just like Joe's, along the weld near the valve stem.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 1, 2010

Lenny, I would take that bet to Vegas (that the rest will go). Not IF, but WHEN. They say DENMARK, one split already...if it looks like a duck...Play it safe, my friend, get rid of them. It's not worth taking the chance. You might have noticed how quick they are to replace them.

DodgeKCL - you make an excellent point. Certainly one which merits serious investigation.

I have also been looking into something called "Industrial Inner tubes". Will report back when more is known.

I just got back from a big car show here in SO CAL- the DA Phaeton took first place for 1928-1931 vehicles. And there were a mess of them there in that class. No FLATS either. Now that's a Good Day!

nearchoclatetown · August 1, 2010

Joe, I read your statement about metal stems. Many of the metal stems are modified standard tubes. Were they vulcanised locally? Mine were regular rubber stems.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 1, 2010

Doug, unfortunately, I don't know where they were vulcanized. There is little or no info on this tube. Normally, like on a tire, you would expect to see a "maximum inflation pressure", a load rating, a date code, a speed rating... but there is NOTHING. In fact on the "made in Denmark" label, this is easily wiped off the tube. It's not even cast into the molded rubber. One could EASILY change this "MADE IN XXX" stamp to any XXX you wanted even after the tire was manufactured.

I am going to start some serious investigation here. If anyone has any info on what labeling, by law, must be imprinted on an inner tube, Please speak up.

DavidAU · August 2, 2010

I live in Brisbane, Australia and about 2 1/2 years ago had exactly the same problem with Denmark made 500 x 19 tubes. I bought 3 off my local vintage tyre dealer about 6 months prior to using them and when they failed (within hours of being mounted on the wheels) they would not replace them.

They told me that tubes of this size without the big brass valves are very hard to get and they buy whatever they can from around the world.

I was later told by another tire dealer that the manufacturer failed to put enough elasticizer in the raw material and they had now corrected it but there are still thousands of them floating around the world. I wont buy anymore "Made In Denmark" stuff

The tubes I have replaced them with are made in India. I haven't got a lot of faith in them either but at least they haven't failed.............yet.

I also have been looking for 700 x 20 tubes for my Rolls Royce and bought a new one from a dealer at a swap meet for $35.00 No name or place of origin on it, just the size, 600 - 700 x 20 - 21. It looked like a rubber O ring and failed as soon as I pumped it up. No stretch in it at all.

I then did some serious looking and found that RR recommended that all tubes should be a reinforced type. I eventually purchased some made by Waymaster in England at $100.00 each.

Very expensive, but the size of them when laying flat on the floor is much bigger than the failed one . They also weigh 7 lbs each compared with the 3 1/2 lbs of the rubbish one.

David

Steve9 · August 2, 2010

Congrats on the show win, It's a sweet ride. I bought my tubes from Les Schwab, they installed, so far, so good.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 2, 2010

Thanks Steve! And what a great summer it has been finally driving the Phaeton after being garage-bound for so long. Not that I don't enjoy the restoration, but cruising around in this slice of history is a whole lot more fun.

It is interesting to see how this inner tube problem has made 'round the world. Thanks to you folks in Oz for sharing your misfortunes. Maybe it isn't my imagination after all. And as for the increased weight of the two tubes-that is an amazing difference.

I'm still working on the facts surrounding the necessary labeling of the tubes. Answers to come-stay tuned.

Joe

idrjoe_sandiego · August 3, 2010

I have a parallel thread running on the general discussion forum section. For the benefit of those here on the DB forum One forum member had an interesting reply. My answer follows.

I give a big thanks for posting this info. I am troubled by you not mentioning the company that these tires and tubes were purchased from though. I would not hold the tire sales companies responsible for these failures, but I DO hold these companies responsible for still selling them, knowing that they have this problem. There are a lot of things that are more important than money, but it appears that to some of these companies, money is the bottom line. We are talking about a persons life here. I would NOT want to do business with any company that compromised safety for money.
Please keep us posted as to your findings about this. Every car club should be informed of this. Also, there should be information made avaliable at all the car shows. The word needs to get out. Thank you for your posts!

No problem Jim. Its about time these sellers get proper exposure. I masked their full names at first because I didn't realize just how many people have been victims. Many of them have chosen, for whatever reason, to Private mail me to tell their story. I encourage everyone to make it known what dangerous products are being sold.

__________________

Edited August 3, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz
You have a PM. (see edit history)

August 3, 2010

I phoned around to a few of my contacts at tire stores and they say that tubes are exempt from the regulations that tires have to adhere to,serial number,load rating etc. I assume this is why you're getting the round-around and the 'I dont' give a s''t' attitude from the dealers.

Apparently a loop hole has been found in the 'system' and it needs to be addressed. Time to contact your DOT/MOT or Congressman/MP and make a complaint .

Edited August 3, 2010 by DodgeKCL (see edit history)

Steve Moskowitz · August 4, 2010

Here is another part of the story. Yes, one of the companies I was able to speak with today readily admits the source of tubes he bought were not acceptable. It is the reason he has several thousand tubes stuck in storage since he won't sell them anymore. Apparently there are no tube manufacturers in North America. He has a new source now but stated that he believes that there have been improvements from the company from Denmark although his comes from India

Sometimes you need to ask for a manager, the owner or to get satisfaction in any business. In this case, I was told that they have tried their best to satisfy any complaints that have come their way.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 4, 2010

I'd like to publicly apologize to the forum, because, unbeknown to me, I was in violation of a Forum rule that says you can't mention vendor names in your posts (I frankly don't even know where these rules are listed). In any case, I broke the rule and have been notified by Mr. Steve Moskowitz, whose job it is to monitor the forum. To keep my butt out of hot water, Steve edited my posts here on the DB forum and erased my parallel thread on the general discussion forum. What follows is his letter to me and my reply.

Originally Posted by Steve Moskowitz <o></o>

Joe,

The rules of the forum are explicit. If this forum is to stay alive we cannot allow the mentioning of names. You simply can say in the post, "Want to know more, send me an email." What you do in private is fine by us.

You have made a lot of allegations about what ***** is concerned about or not. I can tell you that one other forum user had a not so nice visit from an attorney and is lucky he was able to get by with a public apology.

It is no longer a matter of being right when it comes to the legalities of slander.

Your post serves as a warning for people to make sure they are getting a quality product but you can be assured that I have made these edits in YOUR best interest as well.

<o></o><o></o> MY reply: August 3, 2010

<o></o>Steve-

My sincere apologies for the violation, as I was unaware of the "names" rules. Quite intentionally, I did not spell out the vendor’s names at first. The outpouring of horror stories educated me as to the gravity of this most unfortunate problem. Ultimately, a frequent forum user, who was upset that I had failed to provide the names of the companies involved, led me to expose the vendors. This, I now know, was in violation -- I understand, you are just doing your job.

I thought that the idea of these forums was to share useful information and exchange information for the good of the order of Antique Automobile Owners.

Apparently, the AACA is so concerned about their bedfellow vendors/sponsors that they are unconcerned about the safety and welfare of its membership. It seems anymore, that it is always about the money. If the AACA truly cared about its members, it would suggest strongly to those vendors/sponsors (some of whom have now admitted their guilt to you) that they (the vendors) send out a recall notice to all customers who have purchased this defective merchandise. Additionally, these vendors should send out the recall, with a refund check covering the cost of the defects, shipping charges AND the cost of reinstalling a quality replacement product. Failing that, the AACA should DROP their sponsorship at once. AACA should decide whether it cares to be part of the solution or to be part of the problem.<o></o>

I understand your need to edit the posts if in violation of forum rules. But I have come forward, in the interest of the SAFETY and WELFARE of the folks on this forum. I cannot, however, understand why my thread warning the forum members about these defective inner tubes on the General forum was eliminated in its entirety. After all, someday YOU Steve, might be touring with a fellow AACA member who has a blowout caused by known defective tubes causing injury to YOU or YOUR car..

Really, I don't want to be the new Ralph Nader, but to sit idle in silence when a colleague might get hurt, is unconscionable.

<o></o>

Joe

August 4, 2010

I was told that they have tried their best to satisfy any complaints that have come their way.

Thi is what concerns me about this. They waite untill they hear of a complaint before they do anything. It seems to me that they would have contacted each and every person who bought these tubes, and offer to take them back, rather that make it right when they get a complaint.

If anyone here bought these fauilty inner-tubes, and received a call, letter, or email from the company that sold the tubes, informing you of a possible problem without you getting in touch with them first, I'd like to know this. This is VERY important. This would show that the company was trying to prevent any problems. If they waited for a complaint first, this is dead wrong!

Joe Cozza · August 4, 2010

Hi Joe,

Please send a PM listing the vendors names. If the AACA won't let you name names my next Presidents message will. These vendors might be on our perferred vendors list.

Yes, AACA, we kept a list of perferred vendors and when we get complaints from a number of our members that vendor is taken off the list and told why.

Thanks again Joe, for bringing this problem to those of us that value our lives more than our pocketbook.:mad:

Joe C.

Steve Moskowitz · August 4, 2010

From Coker tire this morning:

Our tubes are batched tested by Standard Test Laboratory in Akron regarding three very important qualities that tubes should pass such as elongation, hardness durometer reading and elasticity. Bottom line is there might have been some tubes that were not perfect in the past (12-20 months ago), but can't happen now. BTW, there are no longer any tube manufacturers that will make collector tubes in the USA at all. Ours are marked "made in EEC".

Secondly: My email was a PM but not hidden behind an assumed name to Joe. PM's are normally just that, Private. He needed to make no apology to me in public nor private.

Thirdly, put what you want in writing to your own club. I would caution you to have ALL the facts and make sure what you write does not subject you or the club to a lawsuit you cannot defend. AACA pays a lot of money to protect ourselves from what goes into print and on this forum. It is no laughing matter and in the past year that point was driven home quite clearly! Our goal is to make sure this club survives and can provide free services to people worldwide, like this forum which your club pays zero to have hosted. We simply ask people to respect the rules we need to meet based upon the standards of our legal and insurance adviser's reccomendations.

Mr. Cozza, AACA has in fact removed vendors from being in our flea markets and advertising. However, we make sure both sides have an opportunity to explain the issues. Secondly, the first time AACA was made aware of this was yesterday! We immediately called both tire companies for an explanation and have people looking into this further. Both companies have expressed a desire to discuss this further and in person in a few weeks. Any insinuation that we do not care about our members or are putting our pocketbook (actually it is our member's pocketbook!) first is rather insulting.:mad:

Out of respect for your club we did not take the thread down on this site, only within our area. We started an investigation, replied personally and openly and will continue the quest as we always do to be of benefit to the hobby whether members or not. It would be nice once in awhile for some understanding that we all have to live within certain rules whether we like them or not.

Edited August 4, 2010 by Steve Moskowitz (see edit history)

Joe Cozza · August 4, 2010

Dear Mr.Moskowitz,

Thank you for your concern about the Dodge Brothers Club. I would never subject the Dodge Brothers Club to any type of legal action. I do believe however, our club members need to be informed that there are products out there that are potentially harmful to them and/or their families.

Some of our members do not follow the AACA forum and only recieve information from the Dodge Brothers Club News, therefore I think it's necessary to keep them informed.

I will choose my words carefully.

Thank You,

Joe Cozza, President

Dodge Brothers Club

August 4, 2010

Yes, AACA, we kept a list of perferred vendors and when we get complaints from a number of our members that vendor is taken off the list and told why

I know of one vendor that has advertised in the Dodge Brothers club news for years and for YEARS has repeadately ripped of members of the club in one way or another so the statement made above is absalutely untrue. Not trying to start anything in the least way but its a pisser that it is prob. going to have to come down to someone in the club higher up on the ladder than my lowly self to get ripped off before someone actually does something about this conartist.

Not trying to get off subject but that remark hit home for me!

August 4, 2010

I have been giving this subject a lot of thought today, and it is troubling to me that people were not notified about these problems by the companies that sold these tubes. I also feel just as strongly that I, as well as others may have been coming down on Steve, or super Moderator as well. This shouldn't be. Steve has a job to do, and thats what he is doing. He's not the judge or jury, he's the policeman up-holding the laws that have been set forth by this site. I'm sure that if they doubled his pay from what he makes right now doing what he does on this site, he'd still have nothing.

Please Steve, keep us informed as to your finding in this matter. Yes, we should get the entire truth in this, not just from one side. I will be very interested in hearing everything that comes out about these defective innertubes. I know the rest of us will as well. Just be sure and don't candy-coat anything. Tell us like it is.

Joe, thank you for bringing this up to our attention. We all owe you a great BIG THANK YOU!!!!

idrjoe_sandiego · August 5, 2010

In fairness to Steve Moskovitz, he is absolutely doing his job. I can assure you through his public postings here and also in the private messages he has sent me, that HE IS ON IT. He not only has a big job monitoring the forum but also must walk the delicate tightrope of protecting the interests of the AACA and its members from lawsuits,etc. I appreciate and applaud Steve's efforts thus far to contact the vendors involved and get to the bottom of this.

I can also assure you I have only one agenda: the SAFETY and WELFARE of our colleagues in the Antique Car Hobby. That said, I hope that shedding a little light on the problem might encourage the vendors involved to do the right thing. Of course, I am not holding my breath. Only they, the vendors, know how many ticking time-bombs were sold and to whom.

Joe Cozza · August 5, 2010

It will be interesting to see if any of the vendors contact any of the customers that might have received the defective tubes.

Customers, Let this forum know.

Thanks,

Joe C.

August 5, 2010

According to what one of the venders stated, they should not be having any more problems. Don't you think that if they NOW get in touch with their customers about these bad innertubes, its just a token gesture? A little late if you ask me. They should have done this immediately after they found that there was a problem.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 8, 2010

Hi Joe (Mr. President)- just got the most recent DB news in the mail and noticed at least one of the companies in question advertises in our magazine. Apparently they appreciate our business and will pay for print, but won't publish any apologies/regrets/recall notices.

To DodgeKCL-I appreciate your research into this problem thru your tire dealer contacts. This loophole to have no required id's on inner tubes obviously is being exploited as we speak. I did find a tidbit on the NTHSA website which kind of relates to what you said re: motorcycle tubes. They state that, "the agency is not currently aware of any safety problems associated with motorcycle tires." The website, however, has tons of stuff on defective automobile tires. They say nothing specifically about motorcycle tubes, but your experience agrees with their statement at least as to motorcycle tires.

August 10, 2010

I'm not going to be directly involved in this because I have never had a tube failure mainly because I've used nothing but motorcycle tubes. As I mentioned it occurred to me years ago that if I can ride a motorcycle at 150 mph 'with my hair on fire' you could certainly tour at 45-50 mph on a Sunday afternoon in an old car?

It has turned out I was correct. I have never heard of ,nor seen, a blowout on a motorcycle. In fact I have a 1977 Honda CX500 in a shed,waiting for restoration, that has it's original tires on it and they have NEVER lost any air in the 10 years I've owned it. And I doubt they ever have.

I think the technical problem of picking the right tube for your antique tire/rim is not as difficult as it appears. Over the years it apparently has not made any difference whether I put in a 'bigger' tube or a 'smaller' tube as they both have to fill the void and push out the tire. I run 6.00X"16 tires at 32 psi. I buy my tubes from Honda.

However that doesn't solve this present problem. I have had further inquiries with my 'sources' including opening up some tube boxes and they do indeed NOT have any serial number,load rating,coding,dating or pressure limit etc.

The only bright thing I came across was the motorcycle parts people looking at me like I was out of my mind to even use the words 'blowout' and 'motorcycle tube' in the same sentence. Confirming my own suspicions as to the quality of motorcycle tubes.

Apparently we have stumbled upon a dangerous and possibly lethal glitch in the otherwise overly regulated automotive industry. I would ,as I already have, recommend strongly that those with these defective tubes contact their local,state or federal government and complain vigorously to them. I would also recommend you not throw out the tubes even though you have purchased new ones. Don't even send them back to the dealers.

But I think you owe it to the antique and general automotive community to follow up on this at the highest level to get the system changed before someone is hurt.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 14, 2010

Just a quick update: this thread has been up for just under two weeks and has over 1300 hits. I personally have reports now on over 40 tubes that have split apart. These are not "anecdotal" reports. We are way beyond "anecdotal". They have carried "made in EEC" or "made in Denmark" or "made in India" labeling.

Interesting side note: the term "EEC" (European Economic Community) hasn't been in use for over 20 years! It has been largely replaced by the EU designation (European Union). >>

NEWS FLASH DIRECT from the "Don't hold your breath " DEPARTMENT:With all those hits and all those defective tube reports I have received to date, NOT ONE PERSON has reported to me that their tire/tube vendors have contacted them to inform them that there might be a problem here.

Edited August 14, 2010 by idrjoe_sandiego (see edit history)

Joe Cozza · August 14, 2010

Just a quick note.

I was cleaning out my garage today and getting my 31 ready for a show tomorrow and I came across the four tires and tubes I took off about 8 yrs ago to be replaced with whitewalls and new tubes. Guess what, Those tubes were made in the good old U S of A. That was a pleasant surprise. They were only on the car for 4yrs. With all that's going on with tubes these days I think I'll hold on to them and sell the tires tomorrow.

Joe C.

idrjoe_sandiego · August 20, 2010

The government agency who handles complaints about defective automotive equipment is the Office of Defects Investigation. This is a sub-agency of the NHTSA which is a sub-agency of the US Department of Transportation. I strongly encourage all who have been victims of this atrocity to file a claim with this agency. The claim form is done online and can be found at this website: Office of Defects Investigation (ODI), File A Safety Complaint

I have also contacted a real human in this department who is VERY interested in this whole debacle.

jim43 · August 22, 2010

It sounds like possibly tubes marked EEC may be very old stock if presumably those countries involved would want to use EU as a marking now and for quite awhile now at that.

I think any decent tube should hold air under any but the roughest usage. A faulty one won't. Weight load rating has to do more with tires than tubes. That being said I would probably by the heavy duty tube I could. But no tube will hold much in the way of pressure unless it is contained in a tire and wheel. Holding air is it's job, not weight.

jim43 · August 22, 2010

A bit more on the subject. I took three 37 Cadillac tires and wheels in to a serious tire shop the other day and they managed to destroy all three tubes in dismounting them for me. To be realistic, it has been a long time since tire shops have had much experience with tubed tires other than on trucks. They throw them up on their tire machine and expect the machine to do the job. Of course the machine digs right into the tube and tears it as soon as they try to take off the first bead. Make sure they break the beads down with the machine and then use two tire spoons to get that first bead over the rim. Then it is time to take out the tube. The machine can then be used on the back tire bead. These are drop center wheels of course. Doesn't quite apply to the semi-drop centers mentioned previously, but being sure they have stems on the right side does if they are off center.

Back in the 60's when I worked in tire shops tubes were common and we knew to use some caution. That included sprinkling talc in the tire to make it slippery in there so the wrinkles would have an easier time working out. A wrinkle in a tube will can eventually cause a flat. Usually a slow but certain leak. I have fixed many. That is why it is best to use a slightly smaller sized tube if you have to. A slightly larger one if it has never been inflated might slide by, but I will take the slightly smaller. Slightly is important, certainly not two sizes smaller.

JerryVan · August 23, 2010

Yes, let's all get the government involved! Let's punish the tube/tire suppliers until they buckle under our collective might. Then, let's all figure out how to make our own inner tubes so we can continue driving our cars. That'll show'em who's boss!

OR,

Let's all calm down a notch or two and let Supplier X get this thing solved.

JACK M · August 23, 2010

:confused: Yes, let's all get the government involved! :mad:

:eek:

JerryVan · August 23, 2010

Jack,

Not sure what you're trying to communicate there. Can you use words instead of cryptic little pictures?

WARNING: DEFECTIVE INNER TUBES

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