About adding Turn Signals to old cars

[Guest bofusmosby]

One of the things I feel I should do to my 1937 Pontiac is to add turn signals for added safety. I will not be doing anything that will be permanent, so it can easily be revered if desired later. They have the after-market turn signal contorls, that can be mounted to the steering columb, and there are various methods I have read to add the signal lights. Again, nothing will be permanent, and no holes will be made to any part of the car. On my Pontiac, on the tail lights, there are 2 bulbs on each of the 2 tail light assemblies. When the lens is removed, I see (see included photo) that there is a bulb for the lights, as well as a second for the brake light display. I also noticed that there is space below these 2 bulbs where another socket could be added for the turn signal. There are 2 screws, that if one is loosened, another light bulb socket could be placed and fastened down by one of these screws. The added wire for the turn signal could then be run through the assembly with the other wires, and then run under the car and brought to the dash from underneith. The photos are not my lights, but the same type as the ones I have on my car.

What do you think of my idea of doing this? When the lens is put back on, then all 3 lights (light, brake and turn signal) would be in the same assembly. do you think that the extra light bulb and socket would be visible enough for this purpose? Also, can anyone make any recommendations as to what to use for the front blinker lights? I guess about the only place to mount them would be on the bumper supports. Any ideas will be greatly appreciated. Also, is it necessary to add front turn signal lights?

I would appreciate any and all opinions, and I thank you in advance for this.

[junkyardjeff]

One bulb is for the stop light and the other is for the running lights,just use the socket for the stop light for the one that will be used with the turn signal. My 37 chevy p/u is setup the same way and I used a brighter bulb for the stop/turnsignal,there are several bulbs with the same base so use one with a higher number for the stop/turnsignal. I might just install a single socket and use 1157 bulbs in the 37 but it works with the two bulbs,no need to use a third bulb since the stop light and turn signal use the same wire since the switch cancels the stop light for the side that is flashing.

[Shop Rat]

Here are the rules about added turn signals according to the 2010 Official Judging Guidelines. Page 17, item 6,

6. Turn signals and battery shut-off switches

are accepted as safety items, so long as

the installation is done in a workmanlike

manner in keeping with the design and

era of the vehicle, using authentic wiring,

and in good taste.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you for the rules, as well as the opinions. Junkyardjeff, I was thinking of doing exactly what you are talking about. However, in order to do this, I will have to cut the wire that runs fron one tail light to the other, Then, I would have to cut the wire from the brake pedal switch, and run this to the signal switch on the steering columb. By doing it that way I mentioned in my first post, this would eliminate all this. Not having to cut any wires, just adding an extra socket to each tail light. I just thought that having to cut the original wiring would be a little too destructive.

What are you using for the front turn signal light?

[Fred44676]

I too added turn signals to a '37 Pontiac sedan several years ago. For front turn signals, I added period correct, yellow lens, fog lights that mounted to the front bumper brackets. These were wired to the turn signal control individually and flashed as turn signals. I used dual filament sockets in the rear with the wiring modifications you described.

[SMB]

I hope this is not a duplicate post but I cannot find my original.

Anyway, I suggest putting an audible signal in the wiring for your turn signals. It is easily done and only costs about $5.

I found that without it I very often left the blinker on. :eek:

Here is a link to the description of how to build the signal and the parts needed. They are readily available at Radio Shack.

<cite>www.freightlinerchassisownersclub.org/Documents/.../TurnSignalBuzzer.pdf</cite>

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[junkyardjeff]

You really would not have to cut any wires but disconnect them and run new wires but I doubt you would ever go back to no turn signals,there is no way I would ever take them off of my 37 living in a larger city which probably no one knows what a hand signal is anymore. I am using two small amber lights bolted to the bumper braces for the front as I had no optional parking lights to put them in,what I need my sanity checked is I am using the original bulb and reflector head lights and even with 12 volts they leave alot to be desired and need to run the brights out in the country. Going to a single bulb might be brighter then with the original 2 bulb system but since mine is 12 volt now LED bulbs are available and I might go that route

Thank you for the rules, as well as the opinions. Junkyardjeff, I was thinking of doing exactly what you are talking about. However, in order to do this, I will have to cut the wire that runs fron one tail light to the other, Then, I would have to cut the wire from the brake pedal switch, and run this to the signal switch on the steering columb. By doing it that way I mentioned in my first post, this would eliminate all this. Not having to cut any wires, just adding an extra socket to each tail light. I just thought that having to cut the original wiring would be a little too destructive.

What are you using for the front turn signal light?

Edited March 13, 2010 by junkyardjeff
wanted to add something (see edit history)

[Paul Dobbin]

Jim,

All the advice above is good. I just did this conversion on my 34 Ford three weeks ago.

The tail lights on your 37 Pontiac already have a dual contact socket, so any good column mounted turn signal unit will work. You will need a 7 wire turn signal kit. The single brake light wire that you have now will have to be split into 2 wires, right and left turn/stop wires. The front parking lamps can be used with brighter single contact bulbs wired into the turn signal switch (you will loose the park lamp function), or dual contact sockets and bulbs can be used to retain the park lamps.

A 3rd Brake Light with/Turn Signals in addition to the standard rear stop/turn lamps, is probably the best safety change you can do . J&L Enterprise makes a 6v LED 3rd Brake/Signal light kit. It's a very low profile unit that mounts with bracket and adhesive contact pads to the rear window. The wires for it go down behind the rear seat back. No holes drilled, and it wires in parallel with the other stop/turn signal wires.

See http://www.jandlenterprise.com/products/brakelighter.htm

The 6VDC Mini Buzzer to tell you you left the signal on is Part # 273-0054 at Radio Shack. I tried it without the buzzer and immediatley was an old fart with my turn signal on while going straight. Do it at the same time.

Paul

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you for all the great info, and the links. Good info! I am wondering if the third light LED bar will work for a split back windshield?

You know, I was reading the instructions before on wiring up the turn signals using the existing brake lights for the signals as well. I just hated the idea of having to cut any wires, and adding another wire run. I guess I need to give this some more thought.

[Seldenguy]

Jim-- I don't think there is any way to avoid running a new wire from the directional switch to the rear of the car.I put a set on my '36 Buick years ago, which is basically the same as your Pontiac. As I recall there has to be two wires one for the right and one for the left.This facillitates one working as a brake light and the other side will be blinking. Just my nickles worth,(inflation on the two cents) and good luck on your project. ---Bob

Edited March 13, 2010 by Seldenguy (see edit history)

[junkyardjeff]

Doing a little wiring modification will be worth it to get turn signals,like I said before just disconnect the original wires and run new wires. I can see vehicles without them back in the day but now you must have them due to the uninformed and distracted drivers on the road today.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I too added turn signals to a '37 Pontiac sedan several years ago. For front turn signals, I added period correct, yellow lens, fog lights that mounted to the front bumper brackets. These were wired to the turn signal control individually and flashed as turn signals. I used dual filament sockets in the rear with the wiring modifications you described.

On the front fog-lights you use for turn signals, can these bulbs be replaced with a 2 filament bulb, so they would serve as the fog lights, as well as the turn signals? Or perhaps add another light bulb socket inside the fog lights for the turn signals. Well, I am taking it that they are not a sealed-beam type of light.

Jeff, when you ran new wires for the turn signals, where did you run the new wiring? On the 37 Pontiac, they (the original wires) are routed across the drivers side of the roof, but to do this would be impossible without removing the head-liner. I was thinks of running the new wires inside a small diameter rubber hose, to prevent the wires from being rubbed bare over time.

[junkyardjeff]

I wired the turn signals in when I made a wiring harness for it but you could run the wires on the floor under the carpet to the trunk or run them along the frame depending on where the wires come out of the tail lights and whats easier.

[Fred44676]

When I used the fog lights for turn signals, I did not use two filament sockets and the fog lights were turn signals only. They were not sealed beam units and could easily have been modified to use a two filament socket or even an additional socket if you want to add the fog light function. If I remember correctly, I was hesitant to use the '37 Pontiac park lights as the park lights were a small bulb inside the headlight assembly and I was afraid a dimly flashing single headlight would not be understood by other drivers to be a turn signal. I thought the flashing single yellow fog light may be a better choice as modern drivers seldom if ever see yellow fog lights anymore.

[Guest mystarcollectorcar.com]

There is a real upside to not having signal lights-most people think you're just being friendly and give you a wave back when you do a hand signal.

Takes you back to a kinder,gentler time...

[Guest Dean_H.]

The "upside of no turn signals" is certainly true. Hand signals and old cars look good together.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I was hesitant to use the '37 Pontiac park lights as the park lights were a small bulb inside the headlight assembly and I was afraid a dimly flashing single headlight would not be understood by other drivers to be a turn signal.

Those were my thought exactly! Besides, if the headlights were on, could the small parking light inside even be seen at all.

The hand signals might go with old cars, but if it were storming outside (which it does a lot in Florida) it would not only be miserable, but using hand signals would probably encourage the other drivers to use some hand signals of their own......if you know what I mean.

[junkyardjeff]

When I was putting my 37 togather I wish I knew about the Guide head lights that had the little parking light on top as I would of tried to find a pair as they look to be the same shape as what is on my 37 p/u,I used the little bulb as a parking light only as I thought it was not big enough to use as a turn signal too.

[oldcarfudd]

It's not just drivers who don't know hand signals any more. About 5 years ago I was driving a '15 T on a tour. I needed to make a right turn at an intersection controlled by a traffic cop. I hand-signaled my turn, and he waved back!

Gil Fitzhugh, Morristown, NJ

[FRED Z]

When I restored my 1939 LaSalle convertible 2 years ago, I rigged up front turn signals from a 1947 Cadillac backup light, which is stainless and seems to be period correct. I did not install amber bulbs, but when activated they look a pale yellow or light amber anyhow. I made stainless steel brackets to hold these lights in place.

For the rear, I added an extra socket inside the existing tail light housings and everything works just fine. When I first purchased the car, it had nicely chromed motorcycle turn signals, which functioned well and did the job, but seemed out of place on such a fine car. I added a turn-signal control on the steering column from a 1940 Cadillac, as this feature was not available in 1939. This also looks period correct and works well. That control is the non-cancel type, but has a flashing red light to remind me to turn it off and I wired in a very small buzzer from Radio Shack into the circuit under the dash as a further reminder. This buzzer was 12-volts, but still works on 6-volts, at a lower volume, which is what I want.

Fred

[FRED Z]

Here is another view of the front turn signals and a picture of my steering wheel and dash. You can see the 1940 Cadillac turn signal control in that picture.

Fred

[Guest bofusmosby]

Fred, that is what I was thinking about adding a 3rd light bulb socket in the same tail-light houseing. This way, I don't have to fool wih cutting any wires, and adding other wires to the originals. I also like what you did for the front blinkers. Thank you for the photos of your set-up. Good food for thought.

Let me ask you. with the 3rd light inside the tail light assembly, is the turn signal still well seen when the brake lights are on? This was my original concern.

BTW, great looking car you have!

Edited March 14, 2010 by bofusmosby
added content (see edit history)

[FRED Z]

[quote

Let me ask you. with the 3rd light inside the tail light assembly, is the turn signal still well seen when the brake lights are on? This was my original concern.

BTW, great looking car you have!

I had to play around with different bulbs a bit and finally got it so that it displays as intended. On my LaSalle, the original housing is quite small, so had to do some real work to make a double-socket housing. I probably spent 6-8 hours to make these and the first version did not fit when I was all finished.

Attached are pictures of my very extensive wiring diagram that is mounted on the firewall above and to the left of the steering column. This runs my fog lights, new turn signal circuits, flashers, flasher buzzer and electric fuel pump. I have a 50 amp on-off switch to shut off everything for safety, as am always especially concerned about the auxiliary electric fuel pump. The large round red junction box is a dedicated ground supply. I have wired all of my lights with dedicated grounds, as often a bad ground can cause all kinds of headaches.

To keep the judges happy, I made a black plastic housing that snaps into place and covers everything except the handle of the 50-amp switch that extends out just slightly to the right. When I park the car, I always turn off this switch for less excitement later. I have many, many hours in developing all of this and keep printed wiring diagrams for the next guy some day. (I put one of these diagrams in a plastic pouch behind the trunk lining as an extra bonus to someone years from now). I also have all of this stored on my computer at home. I like precision and I like to document things so that I can help others.

So that you and others do not worry about adding turn signals and flashers, want to say that my LaSalle won a Senior at the 2008 Grand Nationals in NJ. However, as others have mentioned, the work must be professionally done. Most of the time, I use modern wiring, but am very careful that it is concealed in loom if it is an area that can be seen.

Fred

[Guest Dean_H.]

Does anyone know what the legal implications are on driving with out turn signals? Here's the problem: When tooling down the highway in the slow lane, occasionally a car will attempt merging from an on ramp and force me to change lanes. In this example there isn't always time to roll down the window to hand signal, I just change lanes. If this was done in a modern car, I could be sited for unsafe lane change. However since my car never had turn signals, would a cop be able to give me trouble?

[F&J]

I would think you could/should be cited for not giving a signal. Sort of like saying "I did not have enough time to slow down when I saw the lower speed limit sign on a secondary road.

Anyways, I don't scare easily, but I'd never run a car without signals in todays world. For 4-5 years starting in 2003, I drove a 57 VW bug as my primary car. It had those silly semaphore flag lights that pop out of the door posts. They just pop out and stay illuminated, not even blinking! I had so many close calls (almost being rear ended) while stopped and waiting to turn left off of a busy state road onto my road, that I made them able to blink. It still did not help as most people are looking for lights in a normal place. On the highway, these lights would not retract over 50 MPH, instead they just about ripped off in the wind. I gave in and put extra lights on the F and R bumpers...that helped a lot, but my inability to do 70 MPH on the highway still left me with white knuckles.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I am very impressed Fred. By profession, I am an electronic technician, and I am a perfectionist when it come to my work. I am doing a complete restoration on my old (historical) house, and I too doccument everything. This also includes putting diagrams in the walls....sound familiar? I believe that I have taken about 10,000 digital photos of everything I am doing, in all stages.

Yes, I believe that I will be installing the turn signal lights as soon as possible. There are too many crazy drivers out there as it is. I don't want to give them a chance to miss seeing me turn.

Dean

I am not positive on this, but I believe (in my state) that if the car didn't originally have turn signal lights, then they are not required. I do believe it is making a big mistake driving this way though.

[Guest bofusmosby]

One last question. On the 6 volt lamps with the single filament, with the standard BA9 base, does anyone know of what lamp # I need to get for a brighter bulb? BTW, I just got my turn-signal switch assembly.

[junkyardjeff]

Just find a same size bulb with a higher part number.

[Guest bofusmosby]

I don't believe that always holds true. I looked up for example a #47 lamp. It draws .15 amps, and is rated at .945 watts. But, the #44 lamp draws .25 amps, and is rated at 1.575 watts, meaning it would be a brighter bulb, doesn't it?

[junkyardjeff]

It looks like the people at the local discount parts store told me wrong and I have it backwards in my 37 if what you say is true.

[Guest bofusmosby]

To be completely honest with you, I thought the same thing, so I went on Google, and read about some of the lamps. The voltage/current/wattage ratings was listed for each bulb. Geez, now I am really confused.:confused:

[MCHinson]

I don't have part numbers but all of the Model A Ford part suppliers have both 21 candlepower 6 volt tail light bulbs and 30 candlepower 6 volt tail light bulbs. I suspect that those would work in your application as well if you don't find what you are looking for anywhere else.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you Matthew. The problem is, what should I ask for? I was hoping that I could just go to one of the local auto parts stores and get the light bulbs. I was looking for a distributor cap for my 1937a while back, and none of them had any idea what was the correct part number. They said that their paperwork didn't go back that far. I am afraid that if I ask them for a 30 candle power 6 volt bulb for a model "A", they'll think I am nuts.(well, they might be right:D)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

Try an 1129 for turn signal and a 1154 for stop/ tail light

Ben

[Guest bofusmosby]

Thank you! Are both of these bulbs single filament?

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

I think the 1154 is two.

Ben

[MCHinson]

If I was looking for them, I would simply go to this page:

http://www.brattons.com/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=31&numRecordPosition=41&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&strSearchCriteria=

Give me a few minutes. I think I may have one in the garage, let me see if they have a part number on them.

[MCHinson]

The spare bulb that I have is labeled # 1129. Since I was not 100% sure if it was the 21 Candlepower or the 30 Candlepower, I took the one out of my Model A and compared it. That one is labeled # 1129 21 CP, so now I don't know if the 21 or 30 CP bulb are both 1129's or if they have different part numbers. If nobody else can help you, I'll bet you could call Bratton's and Walt Bratton would tell you the part number of the 30 Candlepower bulb. If you can't find their phone number online, PM me and I can give you the number.

[Guest bofusmosby]

Matthew, thank you for the link! Do they just carry parts for the model A's?

Do you have any other links that carry Pontiac parts? Mainly, a 1937?

[MCHinson]

They are a Model A Ford parts supplier. I don't know of any parts supplier specifically for Pontiacs, but then I have never needed one. Perhaps someone else here can suggest something or you could try a Google search.