Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I have a bad case of the Reatta Flu which I believe I caught in this forum. I've come across a local 90 CPE, 128K, no rust, new paint, 18" custom wheels and tires (originals included), good leather, electronics work, performed Barney's brake test and they seem ok, headlights, brakes, rotors and battery all new. Custom exhaust looks good but not original. The trunk leaks. The bad- the motor is leaking oil in the front (passenger side) and the belts are blowing it all over the place. After a little research, sounds like it possibly could be the timing chain cover gasket, oil filter assembly, power steering pump, or oil level sensor. The owner says it has a knock, but I didn't hear it. I realize the only way to really find out is to degrease it and then run it to see where its leaking. I'm on a limited budget and because of these problems, it has fallen squarely in my price range. My 2 mechanic friends say run, don't walk away, buy they don't have the flu. Any idea what it might be worth? Owner originally asked $2999, is down to $1500 and I'm pretty sure I'm the only idiot interested. Is even a $1000 too much? Any help would be appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 You seem to brush off the owner saying; "The owner says it has a knock." Drive the car until it has fully warmed up. Sometimes the knock will not be heard until the engine is fully warmed up and the oil has thinned. A leak can usually be easily fixed but a rod knocking can be an expensive problem to fix. I would rule out the engine knocking before making a decision on purchasing the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest craig hewitt Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Power steering shaft seal is common on 3800s look at the back side of pully for dirt and grime before you clean her up and listen to ronnie he is a smart man Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittany Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Do you (with your mechanic friends) have the capability to replace a potentially shot engine with one from a salvage yard? This is an opportunity to aggressively negotiate the sales price. The 3800 is plentiful and reasonably priced in most salvage yards. The Reatta has a fair number of parts that are specific (think glass and sheetmetal) and can be very expensive . . . On the other hand, the mechanicals are found across the GM lineup and some of the cars that were powered by the 3800 include Riviera, Park Ave, LeSabre, Bonneville, Olds 98 & 88, Toronado, and many of the minivans that GM produced during the same era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Thanks all. I'm going to take Ronnie's advice and go this weekend and see if I can get it to knock. I'll keep you posted. Seems like there could be multiple causes for the oil leak and I'm hoping it turns out to be a relatively cheap fix, but if it knocks, engine replacement could be in the cards. In that case, I'm guessing $800 might be a fair offer, although I'm not sure the owner would take it. He thinks he can get $1500 at the auction...in the current condition I'm not so sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonlabree Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Also, Make sure you check the harmonic balancer. They sometimes seperate and couse a knock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Telco Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 If the rest of the car is in good shape I'd not let a simple engine issue stand in the way of purchase. An engine can be swapped out in a day if you know what you are doing. Plus, if the engine does need to be replaced you can put in a more modern version of the 3.8L with higher compression, better heads and a better cam for better power and economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 If the rest of the car is in good shape I'd not let a simple engine issue stand in the way of purchase. An engine can be swapped out in a day if you know what you are doing. Plus, if the engine does need to be replaced you can put in a more modern version of the 3.8L with higher compression, better heads and a better cam for better power and economy.With enough time and money most any thing can be accomplished but the question is does it make sense to do so. If he starts out with a $1500 car and does replace the engine, assuming you do it right by replacing gaskets, seals, freeze plugs and all the other things that need to be replaced on a used engine, you can easily end up investing $600-$1200 dollars to get the used engine running... not counting the value of his time if he is capable of doing the work. He should end up with a good running car if there are no other hidden problems which rarely is the case. There is one big problem with doing all that. When he gets done he will still have a $1500 Reatta in the eyes of 90% of potential buyers, if he decides to sell, but he will more than likely have twice that invested. Right now Reattas are not good investments and it is easy to get more in them than what they are worth. I'm saying that from personal experience and I'm a machinist/mechanic that can do all my own work. If he has to hire the repairs done by someone else he will never stand a chance of breaking even on it if he has to replace the engine.IF the engine does have a rod knocking, it is my opinion that he would be way ahead by going on down the road and finding a nice Reatta for about the same money that he will be investing to get one with a bad engine back in good condition. There are lots of Reattas for sale out there. It would be a mistake to buy one with a bad engine without considering others that may be available. Just my 2¢. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsteere Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Keep looking. I got the bug again last year and found 1 on Craigs list. It needed a little work and I bought it for $500.00. I drove it most of the summer. Late summer came and low and behols here comes another one on Craigs list. Same money, low miles, lot of new parts and a lack of interior. Well you guessed it 2 makes one real nice ride with lots of parts.Randy'89 Red/gray parts'89 Silver/gray driver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DTerry Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 There are too many good ones for too little money to get involved in a restoration project. You can buy a good one for less than what it costs to restore one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Sage advice from all. For me, engine replacement is out of the question. My hope is 1) the knock turns out to be the exhaust manifold before it warms up 2) the oil leak is not the timing chain cover gasket and 3) he is more desperate than he already seems to get it out of his driveway. Then if all the stars align, he will accept my generous offer of...tada $800.Otherwise, if you hear of a good buy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDirk Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Ditto what Ronnie and Randy said.There are a fairly large number of Reatta's for sale nationwide right now. If you are willing to go beyond local to pick one up, you will have much better luck. There are many fairly nice ones for surprisingly low prices. A look just at Ronnie's site reveals a couple of cars that I would love to buy if I had the funds and parking space for another car.The depressed pricing is partly due to the nature of the Reatta (it's age, lack of familiarity for most of the general public, and the fact that it is a 2 seater and most 2 seaters have comparatively lower resale value) and partly because the economy is generally poor. Together, this equals seller willingness to unload a car for less than they would have been willing to in the not too distant past (many are wanting to raise cash and get rid of "just an old car"), and more deals to be found for the initiated and patient buyer. My own experience was much the same, I spent 9 months looking before I bought mine. I probably paid a bit more than it was truly worth, but I wanted the exact color combo I got (beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes) and I wanted one that was ready to drive, not something that I needed to tow home and spend weeks working on to get road worthy. Also, mine was being sold by a large dealer, not an individual.I have put more than the initial purchase price in the car now after two years of repair and restoration work, and know that I will never get that money out by way of selling it. Sometimes I question if I made the right decision, but I have the car I wanted in the condition I was hoping for, so the money is not the key consideration in my case. I enjoy the car and am very proud of it, and that (for me at least) is the important thing.If/when (hopefully) I buy a second Reatta, I will likely shop more on price, and have the patience to wait until the right deal comes along. Since my current Reatta is a 1991, I was more limited in how much price haggling I could do since only 1214 [coupes] were made that year. 1989 and 90 models are much more plentiful because of the higher production numbers, and 88's aren't all that difficult to find either. I do all my own work (well, except paint) and I would do an engine swap on my 1991 if needed now that it is in such nice shape otherwise. I would not buy one that needed an engine swap since there are too many clean, decent condition Reatta's still around for me to take on one that needed that much work initially. That said, I might buy one like that for parts if the price was right, or to combine with a second car to make one good clean one. One other thing regarding doing one's own work. I consider it pretty much a necessity to do your own repairs on a car like the Reatta, or any car that is 15+ years old, as the cost of paying someone to repair all the things that will go wrong with age is just not practical unless you are sitting on a mountain of cash. I advise anyone without the tools and knowledge to do [at least most of] their own troubleshooting and repairs to avoid older/complicated cars, and buy a newer used car to prevent the wallet decimating effect paying a shop to maintain an old and slightly unusual vehicle. In any case, I hope you find a Reatta you like at an appropriate price, it is a great car and should bring you a lot of enjoyment. KDirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnemac Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 It has been mentioned before but there is a site called jaXed that collects all craigslist, ebay, hemmings, and various auto dealers listings for specific autos. You just go to the site, enter the"mash" and select what vehicle you want. You have to scroll down a little to see the listings. Jaxed is where I found my 91 Polo Green convertible :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAVES89 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Right now there is a '89 Red/Tan for sale on Autotrader. $3800.00 and it has less then 60000 miles. Looks like an original owner passed on and someone is selling it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I'd be careful about a different 3800 unless you really know what you are doing. Sensors are different on "L" (91 and later) than "C" (88-90). All are plentiful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Every 'good deal' I ever got, fell in my lap. It's all about being in the right place at the right time. I know what the flu can do, but I also know what I want, so there are always tradeoffs. All you guys gave sound advice. Ronnie is right about restoration being a bad investment, but DKirk hit the nail on the head about wrenching on your own car. It's not just about money. Restoring a Reatta can be very rewarding IF you love the car.These bits of good advice can be applied to most any car. But you might wait YEARS before you find the car you really want at a perfect price. Truth is, in this economy, it's a buyer's market and most cars are going for cheap (or the seller isn't serious).Life is short. Buy your Reatta and enjoy your passion. If it needs a major overhaul, do it in a couple years (when you can afford it). The engine is a great powerplant, very plentiful, and shouldn't break the bank to overhaul. Use this time to buy quality parts when they are on sale and shop for a GOOD engine builder. Putting yourself into this restoration makes it your car to appreciate more than anyone else ever could. My two cents. - Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Telco Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 I stand by what I said, Ronnie. A bad engine is no reason to pass a car by, especially if it's in otherwise good condition and is a rare vehicle, because an engine is such an easy fix. The only stopper is whether or not you are able to swap engines. Since PhillyFlyer advises that an engine replacement is not something he is in a position to do, he has to do what's best for him. I would suggest he look in the phone book and call the local engine rebuilder to find out what it would cost to have a long block installed though, specifying that all vacuum hoses, belts and other hoses be replaced. The 3.8 is as common as dirt though, and any engine shop would be able to handle a replacement with no problems. It's not like the Reatta is found on every car lot either. They only made what, 20,000 or so of them total, and the last one was made almost 20 years ago? Not counting wrecks or parts cars, how many are really on the road? No, a bad engine is no reason to skip a car, especially if the rest of the car is in good shape and is being had for under a grand. When I bought mine, in roughish condition, it was the only one for sale within 200 miles for any price, and I'd been looking for a Reatta, among other vehicles for several months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 (edited) What I would recommend, not just in this case, but with any older car with unknown history, is take it to an independant mechanic and have him check it out. The $75 that he might charge you could either verify that it is a great deal, or inject a dose of reality into what could be an expensive mistake. He will give you a long list of stuff that needs to be done. Some items might need to be done immediately, and some might be put-offable. Up to you to decide your priorities. If the seller is unwilling to let you do this, walk. Edited December 12, 2009 by wws944 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I fully understand this is not an investment opportunity...my primary reason for purchasing is that I'm 58 years old and I've been driving boring cars since I sold my Z-28 during the oil crunch of '73 followed shortly afterwards by marriage and kids. For me, the Reatta is perfect...unique, distinctive, hand-made in the USofA, it sticks to the road and is plenty powerful enough now that my speeding ticket days are over. Any and all wrenching would be a labor of love. The question now is when, not if. Great advice from all...I'm taking it to an indy to check out and got a bunch of new listings on jaXed (thanks Johnemac). Life IS short, if I gotta go, I'm going in style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Richard D Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I bought my 90 coupe to replace a 90 coupe that a drunk driver destroyed and the cars I had in between were great transportation like a Sears refrigerator, dependable but completely boring. They were just like a kitchen appliance. I have had more enjoyable driving with this 20 year old car than any of the new ones I had. I get thumbs up from kids in sub-compact pocket rockets and Cadillac drivers. Not a month goes by that I am not asked when Buick started building these cars. Plus I am always welcome at local car meets. And I have anti-lock, air bag and a modern unibody structure. I love my 71 Skylark but feel safer in the Reatta. Don't buy a Reatta to make money, buy one to enjoy it. You could get a replacement 3800 for a couple of new car and insurance payments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I consider it pretty much a necessity to do your own repairs on a car like the Reatta, or any car that is 15+ years old, as the cost of paying someone to repair all the things that will go wrong with age is just not practical unless you are sitting on a mountain of cash. Unless you're weighing it against having a car payment. I'm quite happy spending money on upkeep and restoration and genuinely prefer my "old" Reatta to driving a "new" car; that it is more economical than having a payment and fighting the losing battle with depreciation is just icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobby Valines Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Your 58 yo. if you want a Reatta get one. One thing most of us Reatta owners know, or should know is that a 20 yo Reatta is not practicable, but there cool cars. If you wake up from your sleep enjoy your life, even if it cost money. Boys don't grow up there toys just cost more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I must have gave an answer to the wrong question in my second post to this thread. I thought the question PhillyFlyer asked was about purchasing a specific car. It seems this thread has turned into the question of whether or not anyone should ever purchase a Reatta. That being the case, I say yes, by all means get a Reatta if you want one. They are unique, fun cars to drive. I still say don't buy the first one you come to, especially if it has a rod knocking. Don't let Reatta fever take away your ability to make a sound judgment on purchasing a vehicle. Buyers remorse is much worse than regretting you didn't buy the car... and much more expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 This comes back to the point that you should always buy the best example of a car that you can find. Nice, low milage examples still exist for used car prices - you just may need to be patient, and in the case of ones in the rust belt, travel.Both of mine were in the close vicinity of $5k each and had well under 100k miles (still do). You can figure on another $2k over the next year for updating and spares. This is on the high end in today's economy but is still less for two than even one minimal econobox that will be good for 30k miles.I doubt that they will stay this inexpensive for long but at least in central Florida (no rust) with proper maintenance, there is no reason that both should not out live me.Reatta: a lifestyle, hobby, and learning experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushwack Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 To add my two cents, I always buy a bit more then I need. On the flip side, I just bought a '90 convertible of which by all accounts needed little work. Yet buy the time I'm through getting the car to what I find to be acceptable, I'll have put in $2,600 more into the car then the $1,300 I allocated after delivery.Unless you have a deep passion as a do-it-yourselfer, my experience collecting cars is buy the best you can find/afford, tweak it to your liking and enjoy it. Life is too short to tinker with a 20 year old car unless the joy is in restoring the car more then enjoying the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 And the results are in: I just had the car checked by an independent mechanic and Ronnie was right. The motor needs major overhall, the knock is a bearing, the oil leak is from the front seal and the brakes are in need of various repairs. Cost me $30, saved me a bundle. Thanks all for the good advice..I'll keep looking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronnie Posted December 15, 2009 Share Posted December 15, 2009 And the results are in: I just had the car checked by an independent mechanic and Ronnie was right. The motor needs major overhall, the knock is a bearing, the oil leak is from the front seal and the brakes are in need of various repairs. Cost me $30, saved me a bundle. Thanks all for the good advice..I'll keep looking.You made a wise decision. Good luck in finding a nice Reatta! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booreatta Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Have you looked at the 88 red/tan on ebay 170418298014 looks like a good car from Tenn and has 11 people bidding the bid is $2,025. with 19 hours left. Might be a good buy if someone was looking for one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nittany Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 In rereading your original description, you said "local 90 CPE, 128K, no rust, new paint, 18" custom wheels and tires (originals included), good leather, electronics work, performed Barney's brake test and they seem ok, headlights, brakes, rotors and battery all new. Custom exhaust looks good but not original." As reported, the bad news is "The motor needs major overhall, the knock is a bearing, the oil leak is from the front seal and the brakes are in need of various repairs."Does the good outweigh the bad? None of us on the internet can see what you see but all of us on this forum understands that repairs ($$$) are a necessary evil to keeping a 20 year old vehicle on the road. If you can buy a truly rust-free vehicle in Pennsylvania (I hope your mechanic evaluated the underneath as well as the mechanics) with fresh paint for a bargain price, then you have an automobile that may truly last another 15 to 20 years or more with care. Can you put in a good engine (possible supercharged if you are inclined) for less than the price of a decent paint job . . . yes. As suggested, can you search the country for a Reatta with lower miles that doesn't need engine work for similar $$ . . . yes. Sooner or later it will need something that will cost you $$ - ask anybody that maintains classic cars. Bottom line: if you want a Reatta, get yourself the best one that you can afford but understand that they all will drain your wallet sooner or later. The good news is all the depreciation is gone and these cars will appreciate over the next 10 years . . . and they are absolutely a blast to own and drive!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The real question is "Are you able/willing to swap an engine?" A good, low milage (if you can find one) 88-90 "C" 3800 should be less than $400. Best would be a donor Park Avenue, Riviera, or Bonneville that you can drive home, part out, keep the trans as a spare, and junk. There just is no market for these cars today and many were built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest simplyconnected Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 ...None of us on the internet can see what you see but all of us on this forum understands that repairs ($$$) are a necessary evil to keeping a 20 year old vehicle on the road...I agree. If you have a passion for the Reatta, you will want a decent one. A pristine car will cost a fortune. IMHO, because I am a restorer, I look for a cheap car with a good body. I automatically assume the engine and paint need to be redone. I know the Reatta has specific issues (Teves, electronics, etc) that nobody can predict when they will go out. But the basic mechanics restore like any other car.Even if your devices work ok, make allowances for replacements. To me, overhauling an engine is VERY gratifying. Padgett's right, you can find an old Pontiac Trans Sport for a cheap 3800 donor engine. If you have all your engine work done at your leisure and in advance, you could replace the original in one weekend (~four hours). Take lots of pictures.The remaining parts (your old original engine, and all the electronics from a donor car) might bring as much as you paid for the whole donor.When done, your Reatta will have a new powerplant with a fresh, gorgeous, paint job, just like new. - Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wws944 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 A good rule of thumb is that when buying a used car, one should budget about 10% of what the car cost *new* to fix up all the stuff the PO neglected, broke, wore out,, etc. Obviously a garaged 'cream puff' might need less, and a teenager-trashed rust bucket will need more.And sometimes even that pristine, low mileage, 20 year old car has an interesting number of repairs which need to be performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rawja Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 The Trans Sport will be a VIN 'L' engine, not VIN 'C'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mhuffy Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I bought 2 and have not regretted a minute that I did. My first one was neglected, but rust free and low mileage. My second had a little more miles, but in better shape. I have done some of the work myself with my teenage son helping me (sometimes me helping him). The 88 is going to be his when he is ready. I have about 4k in the car, which is minimal for a good used car. The bonus is, he loves the car and helps care for it. He will be less likely to do some of those crazy things that many teenagers do, just because of it.I want two more. One to give to my older son, when he is settled a little more, and leaving a vert and coupe for my wife and I.These are more that just a car. It is an addiction.Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhclark Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Have you looked at the 88 red/tan on ebay 170418298014 looks like a good car from Tenn and has 11 people bidding the bid is $2,025. with 19 hours left. Might be a good buy if someone was looking for oneI was watching this one closely. I think it went for about $3600. The sellers boyfriend/dealer had only offered her $1000 as a trade in. Nice generous boyfriend, huh?It did look like a very nice car, low miles for a good price. Wish I would have pulled the trigger on this one, but didn't have a chance to get a good look at it in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Based on all this good advice, I hooked up with a very nice gentleman and fellow Reatta Forum member and put a deposit on a one-owner, garage-kept 140k 90 CPE, well maintained and in excellent condition. He was even kind enough to deliver it across state just after Christmas. After months of searching, I was about to become a Reattaphile...until-In anticipation of the trip, as the owner was letting it idle in his driveway, my car (well, actually his car) caught fire. OH THE HUMANITY! The pics were heartbreaking, it was such a beautiful car...I felt so sorry for the guy. Just hope he was insured. And the search goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rsteere Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Well as I always tell my boys "It wasn't meant to be (owning the car)" or "someone was looking out for you on this one." Good luck on the search.Randy89 Red/gray parts?89 Silver/gray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jcc3inc Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) PhillyFlyer:Here is a nationwide source for Reattas:site mash : buick reatta : combined classified and auction listings++++There must be 30+ of them, all years and conditions!Regards,Jack C. Edited December 23, 2009 by jcc3inc Corrected first line (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PhillyFlyer Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Thanks JC, I have been using it. Outstanding resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest craig hewitt Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Call me philly Craig 586-726-5490 no rookie hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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