classic verses antique

[Guest Bob L]

A car is a classic when it is 25 years but when is it a antique?

[MCHinson]

Bob, Welcome to the AACA Discussion forum.

You will probably find some who disagree with the use of the term classic. (And please don't use a capital "C" in that word, lots of people get upset with that.... there is another club that has that term trademarked."

You might want to use the search feature here to search for the word "classic". I think you will find lots of discussions of the topic. There is no real definition for the word. Most states have a definition of "Antique" in regards to automobile licensing. What state are you in? What type of old car do you have, or what type of old car are you interested in?

Again, welcome to the forum. Lots of good information here, and occasionally some heated discussions.

[1937hd45]

A car is a classic when it is 25 years but when is it a antique?

Welcome to the AACA Forum, your answer depends entirely on what version of revisionary history you choose to accept.

[Guest Bob L]

Matt, I live in NY state. I have a 59 Chevy Impala sport coupe and a 1917 model T roadster pickup. I'm building the Model T . the 59 is a good Crusier as is but does need some work. Bob

[MCHinson]

If you were in my state, DMV would consider both of those as antique vehicles. I am not sure about NY. Somebody else here will probably chime in with that information. It is always safe to call them "old cars" or "collector cars". What you call them is probably not too important. Again, welcome to the forum.

[rocketraider]

Whatever you do, don't let the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety near that 59! It will quickly be reduced to junk!:eek:

Like Matt, I've always found it safe to call them simply "old cars". There are still some who consider anything post-WW2 to be a "used car". Your T is a bonafide certified antique by any definition.

[MCHinson]

Glenn, Funny you should mention that! That was the first thing that I thought of when I saw that he had a 1959 Chevrolet. I was thinking of mentioning it, but I figured I did not need to add any fuel to the fire....

[boblichty]

In Ohio both are considered "historic" for plates by the DMV at 25 years old. This is pretty common in a lot of states.

The debate over Classic with a capital "C" wages on for years and for years. Most knowledgeable car guys know the difference and those who don't most likely could care less anyway.

I like "Old car" and if you are enjoying your hobby don't worry about terms of those who get their undies in a bunch over it. Old cars are fun and that is what our hobby/industry is supposed to be all about.

[Guest ken bogren]

....(And please don't use a capital "C" in that word, lots of people get upset with that.... there is another club that has that term trademarked."...

I thought the trademark was for "Full Classic" .

Or is there another one?

[ply33]

I thought the trademark was for "Full Classic" .

Or is there another one?

"Full Classic" was my understanding too. I would guess that "Classic" by itself could not be trademarked.

My definitions:

classic - The car you wanted when in high school but could not afford.

antique - A car built before you were born.

I consider my 1933 Plymouth simply "an old car" (and I was born after 1933 so I am contradicting my own definition).

[MCHinson]

I am not an authority on the use of the word classic with a Capital "C", (Full or otherwise) but I know that whenever it gets typed that way, it generally results in Ranting and Raving. I do my best to stay as far away from the use of that term as I can. I prefer the safe term "old car".

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

For the record, I agree that old car works. Does for me anyway.

Ben

[Guest Trunk Rack]

.........

The debate over Classic with a capital "C" wages on for years and for years. Most knowledgeable car guys know the difference and those who don't most likely could care less anyway.

I DISAGREE. PEOPLE FEEL VERY STRONGLY ABOUT THE WORDS 'CLASSIC' & "ANTIQUE".

YOU QUESTION THE AVERAGE CAR BUFF WHO LIKES TO CALL HIS OLD CAR A 'CLASSIC', AND ASK THEM WHY THEY WANT TO CALL THEIR CAR A CLASSIC, AND YOU WILL FIND MANY GET VERY UPSET ABOUT IT.

THOSE OF US WHO WERE ACTIVE IN THE FORMATIVE YEARS OF THE CLASSIC CAR CLUB OF AMERICA, NEVER REALLY GOT OVER THE SHOCK OF FINDING THAT OUR HOBBY HAD BECOME ACCEPTABLE ONLY A FEW YEARS AFTER IT STARTED.

AS LATE AS THE MID 1950'S, PRESERVING OLD CARS WAS CONSIDERED LAUGHABLE, AND PRESERVING THE LARGEST, MOST ELEGANT, MOST POWERFUL SUPER-LUXURY CARS OF THE LATE 1920'S THRU THE LATE '30'S ( that we called "classic" WAS CONSIDERED EVEN WORSE.

LOOK HOW FAST WE MADE THE WORD 'CLASSIC' A DESIREABLE TERM TO CALL ANY OLD CAR !

BY THE MID 1960'S EVEN NEW CAR MANUFACTURERS WERE CALLING SOME MODELS "CLASSIC".

THESE DAYS, A GLANCE AT ANY AUTOMOTIVE PUBLICATION WILL SHOW IT IS GETTING HARDER AND HARDER TO FIND ANYTHING THAT IS NOT MERCHANDISED AS 'CLASSIC'.

SAME GOES FOR THE WORD "antique". YOU ASK PEOPLE WHY THEY LIKE TO CALL THEIR CARS "ANTIQUE" AND YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE PEOPLE UPSET OR EVEN ENEMIES, REAL FAST.

SURE, THERE ARE STILL PEOPLE AROUND WHO WILL EXPLAIN AN ANTIQUE CAR IS ONE WITH ANTIQUE FEATURES, SUCH AS BRAKES ONLY ON THE BACK WHEELS THAT ARE "EXTERNAL CONTRACTING, CARBIDE GAS LIGHTING, HIGH PRESSURE TIRES, etc., MEANING TECHNOLOGY TYPICAL OF BEFORE THE 1920's. MOST HAVE ENOUGH SENSE OF DECORUM NOT TO "PUSH IT" WITH THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS.

BY 1941, CARS COULD BE ORDERED WITH 'FACTORY AIR' CONDITIONING, FULLY AUTOMATIC FOUR SPEED TRANSMISSIONS, PRESSURIZED COOLING SYSTEMS, POWER WINDOWS, POWER RADIO ANTENNAS, THERMOSTATICALLY CONTROLLED FORCED AIR HEATING, ETC...ETC. AND THEY COULD CRUISE ALL DAY AT 100 MPH.

SURE SOME PEOPLE FIND IT PRETTY FUNNY THAT CARS AS TECHNICALLY ADVANCED AS A 1941 CAR WOULD BE CALLED "ANTIQUES" WHEN WE COMPARE THEM TO "REAL" 'ANTIQUE' CARS - MEANING - MADE PRIOR TO THE 1920'S.

BUT THAT IS THE WAY THINGS ARE. MY RECOMMENDATION IS THAT PEOPLE STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT. WHY UPSET PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO USE THESE WORDS ?

. Old cars are fun and that is what our hobby/industry is supposed to be all about.

DURN RIGHT ! I AGREE WITH THAT PART OF YOUR POST COMPLETELY !

Edited September 21, 2009 by Trunk Rack (see edit history)

[Guest Bluesky636]

In Virginia, any car over 25 years old can be registered as an "antique." Since I am over 25 years old, I guess that makes me an "antique" also. I'm definitely not a "Classic," "Full" or "Empty."

[Guest rbl2]

For your added enjoyment we will now discuss the definition of "restored" as applied to antiq.... uumm clas.... umm old cars.

[Restorer32]

The Model T will no longer be either an Antique nor a Classic if he "builds" it. It will be a Streetrod.

[Guest scarab51]

"Full Classic" was my understanding too. I would guess that "Classic" by itself could not be trademarked.

My definitions:

classic - The car you wanted when in high school but could not afford.

antique - A car built before you were born.

I consider my 1933 Plymouth simply "an old car" (and I was born after 1933 so I am contradicting my own definition).

I had a nice talk with a retired dairy farmer here in Maine yestreday afternoon. He is 93 years old. He climbed up into his 1923 Model T touring car, started it up, and drove it around the field a bit.

NOT many of those guys left out there who were born before the Model T's that thay have were built!

Both he and the T look like that have a lot of miles left in them, by the way.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

For your added enjoyment we will now discuss the definition of "restored" as applied to antiq.... uumm clas.... umm old cars.

yeah...I agree - we could have a lot of fun with that...! (how many of us have seen people advertise a "completely original and totally restored..etc...etc...oh..and of COURSE it is an "antique classic"..!)

[alsancle]

Why do you guys let someone with 1 or 2 posts suck you in? There must be 20 threads on this floating around. I would suggest he uses the search function and he'll find plenty of information on the use of the words, Antique, Classic, antique, classic, etc...

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

I had a nice talk with a retired dairy farmer here in Maine yestreday afternoon. He is 93 years old. He climbed up into his 1923 Model T touring car, started it up, and drove it around the field a bit.

NOT many of those guys left out there who were born before the Model T's that thay have were built!

Both he and the T look like that have a lot of miles left in them, by the way.

Well, this part's easy:

The '23 T is an "antique"... its owner is a "classic" !

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

A car is a classic when it is 25 years but when is it a antique?

If you're referring to special license plates and your Motor Vehicle Administration,

"Antique" is usually applied to any stock car or truck over 25 years old...

"Classic" refers to some vehicles less than 25 years old, but having some distinguishing characteristics such as very low production, etc that make it "unusual".

In either case, qualifying vehicles are eligible for a special, limited-use tag, and usually are exempt from that state's annual safety / emmisions inspections.

Your results may vary.

Here in PA, there used to be two "old car plates": one was the "Antique plate, which was purple with white lettering, and was for stock vehicles 25 years and older; then there was the "classic" plate, which was white with purple lettering, and was available for certain stock vehicles that were less than 25 years old.

In terms of "popular definition", a car is a "classic" (note the small "c"!), whenever the average joe says it is...

Here's how the American Heritage Dictionary, Second College Edition, 1982 defines it: ( I have put car-relevant info in red font)

clas-sic , adj.

1. Of the highest rank or class.

2. a. Serving as an outstanding representative of its kind; model.

b. Well-known and typical: the classic situation - boy meets girl.

3. Having lasting significance or recognized worth.

4. Of or pertaining to ancient Greek or Roman literature or art; classical.

5. Of or in accordance with established principles and methods in the arts and sciences.

6. Of lasting historical or literary significance.

noun:

1. an artist, author, or work generally considered to be of the highest rank or excellence.

2. a literary work of ancient Greece or Rome

3. Something considered to be typical or traditional.

There is a special category of autmobile, "Classic", with a big "C", that refers to certain ( usually luxury) automobiles built between 1920 (?) and 1948, and includes vehicles like Pierce-Arrows, Cords, Duesenbergs, certain Lincolns, 16-cylinder Cadillacs, and so-on... these are the folks who will go hammer and tongs about "what is a "classic" car"....

[Guest rbl2]

Why do you guys let someone with 1 or 2 posts suck you in? There must be 20 threads on this floating around. I would suggest he uses the search function and he'll find plenty of information on the use of the words, Antique, Classic, antique, classic, etc...

It's called being neighborly. Sometimes we call it being friendly.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

Why do you guys let someone with 1 or 2 posts suck you in? ...

c'mon, man - lighten up. Everyone is having fun. The rescue and saving of historically interesting vehicles isn't ( or shouldn't be) a RELIGION...it is for FUN (or should be...!).

So let's not worry too much what people want to call whatever it is they have or are trying to sell. Let's just enjoy the hobby and try and help each other out with technical info.

[alsancle]

c'mon, man - lighten up. Everyone is having fun. The rescue and saving of historically interesting vehicles isn't ( or shouldn't be) a RELIGION...it is for FUN (or should be...!).

So let's not worry too much what people want to call whatever it is they have or are trying to sell. Let's just enjoy the hobby and try and help each other out with technical info.

Most of you guys are too nice. I can't tell you how many posts I see where someone goes to the absolute least amount of effort in describing whatever it is they want to know and 10 guys bend over backwards giving them every permutation of answer. This thread is a perfect example.

If the OP of this thread took the 2 minutes to give a little more context to their question I would be a lot more open minded about it. To me, it just looks like trolling.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

Most of you guys are too nice. .

I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT - MOST CAR BUFFS I KNOW ARE REALLY GREAT PEOPLE.

To me, it just looks like trolling.

I THINK YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SMART ALECS AND/OR HOSTILITY WHERE THERE IS NONE. YEAH, SOME OF US OLDER FOLK WILL RAISE OUR EYEBROWS(OR TRY AND CONTROL OUR SNEERS AND LAUGHTER) WHEN WE SEE PEOPLE CALLING THEIR 20'S and LATER CARS 'ANTIQUES"...and USED CHEVROLET PICK UP TRUCKS 'CLASSICS'. SO WHAT ! YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE 'TROLLS' AND/OR LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. SOME OF US, THRU NO CREDIT WE CAN CLAIM, HAVE HAD MORE TIME AND WERE BORN INTO EARLIER ERAS WHEREBY WE KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS STUFF...SO WHAT !

LET THE " kids " ASK WHAT THEY WANT, AND LET'S TRY AND HELP THEM IN GOOD HUMOR, AND NOT ASSUME THEY ARE 'UP TO SOMETHING".....!

[alsancle]

I THINK YOU ARE LOOKING FOR SMART ALECS AND/OR HOSTILITY WHERE THERE IS NONE. YEAH, SOME OF US OLDER FOLK WILL RAISE OUR EYEBROWS(OR TRY AND CONTROL OUR SNEERS AND LAUGHTER) WHEN WE SEE PEOPLE CALLING THEIR 20'S and LATER CARS 'ANTIQUES"...and USED CHEVROLET PICK UP TRUCKS 'CLASSICS'. SO WHAT ! YOU REALLY THINK THEY ARE 'TROLLS' AND/OR LOOKING FOR TROUBLE. SOME OF US, THRU NO CREDIT WE CAN CLAIM, HAVE HAD MORE TIME AND WERE BORN INTO EARLIER ERAS WHEREBY WE KNOW A LITTLE MORE ABOUT THIS STUFF...SO WHAT !

LET THE " kids " ASK WHAT THEY WANT, AND LET'S TRY AND HELP THEM IN GOOD HUMOR, AND NOT ASSUME THEY ARE 'UP TO SOMETHING".....!

Fair enough. But I still think you guys are too nice :-).

[poci1957]

To Bob L, sorry that in 2 days no one has given you a straight answer to your question. As you may have noticed the definition of those terms is a problem we have been debating here.

The term Antique was originally used by our own AACA (Antique Auto Club of America, host of this site) to denote a car 25 years old and eligible to attend an AACA show. The 25 year limit was later accepted by most states to use in assigning antique license plates.

Classic (with a capital C) was adopted by the CCCA (Classic Car Club of America) to define specifically selected high end cars of the 1920s thru 1940s to admit to their club events. They made a list of specific models that were generally the most expensive luxury cars of their day and if your car is not on their list it is not a "Full Classic" (i.e Cords, Duesenburgs, high end Packards and Cadillacs, etc). If you go to the Classic Car Club page and talk about a 1950 Plymouth or the like you will find an unreceptive crowd.

The debate you have seen is that (a) beginners and outsiders do not always know these rigid terms or use them officially and ( even if they do know everyone loves to use the word "classic" to define their favorite car. Also, now that a 1983 car is an "antique" some find that it feels odd for a late model car of modern roadability to be called an antique just like a Model T.

So the terminology has gone through the years and now everyone is unsure what to do next. If you correct a newcomer you can come off as hostile and nitpicky. If not then you accept that, for instance, a mass produced 1970s sedan can be labeled a "classic" just like a fine prewar Packard. Hope this helps clarify and hope you were not put off by our little debate. Todd

[MCHinson]

Why do you guys let someone with 1 or 2 posts suck you in? There must be 20 threads on this floating around. I would suggest he uses the search function and he'll find plenty of information on the use of the words, Antique, Classic, antique, classic, etc...

Read post # 2 in this thread... Been there done that!

[Guest doberman]

Hay

you guys on this forom are great. there is a great store of info

here. I have been reading these topic for along time now and enjoy

each one I read whitch is all of them. most are very intertaining this is the

way that it should be . every one trys to help everyone.

As a boomer had many old cars 50s-60s- 70s thought they were all hot rods

but most were not. Wish I had some back cuda ,gto , firebird, superbee 68

my favorite all gone .

After 30 some years without something to toy with I have been working on

a 1917 db touring for 2 years. almost competed ground up restor that an old

friend started years ago.

To put one together out of boxes that you didnt take apart has been a real

chalenge and a few times I had to ask on here and got the help I needed.

thanks to all that partiapate in these foroms.

By the way who is the 17 expert and WHO is hiding all the 17 db parts

thank alan

[Guest doberman]

sorry

got carried away. My question was where does Vintage come in at.:confused:

[Guest Bluesky636]

sorry

got carried away. My question was where does Vintage come in at.:confused:

With wine.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

sorry

got carried away. My question was where does Vintage come in at.:confused:

Good question. For us grouchy old curmugeons, the answers to the questions are clear. You younger folk should relax - our time has come and gone, what we think is irrelevant. But if you are still curious, listen up.

Again, ANTIQUE cars are cars with ANTIQUE features, such as external contracting brakes on the rear wheels only, carbide gas lighting, etc..the technology of the ANTIQUE era, meaning prior to the late teens - 1920.

VINTAGE era refers to cars too "new" and modern" to be called antiques, meaning, roughly 1918 to the start of the "classic" era, or 1925. That is the era when you start seeing FOUR wheel brakes that are INTERNAL EXPANDING, on board electrical systems, low pressure "ballon" style tires, even enclosed bodies with cabin heaters !

CLASSIC ERA refers to the so called "golden age" when "form followed function", meaning a headlamp stood separate from a fender to define its function, or prior to the "art deco/streamlined" era beginning just before World War II. A "classic car" was only, again ONLY, the very top of the line super-luxury car, set apart from the ordinary car of its day by its much greater speed, power, elegance, etc.

But again, what us old curmugeons "know" from the days when we were a great, wealthy industrial power, (and precision of speech was important to get a precision job,) is no longer relevant ( and actually annoying to many younger car buffs).

Today we are in the new and glorious era when our speech has become more reflective of our emotional needs, and less need to be bothered with boring technical facts.

It wont be too many years more before my late model Toyota Corolla can be called an "antique', and who is to deny that General Motors is trying to pull a "fast one" by slapping a plastic "CLASSIC' badge on some of its current-issue cars.

Bottom line - it is still a free country, so we are still free to call most anything we want, most anything we like. THAT is what is important. The rest is "small stuff". Remember the saying "dont sweat the small stuff".. ? At my age...be assured...it is ALL "small stuff"....!

Edited September 21, 2009 by Trunk Rack (see edit history)

[Guest doberman]

Thank you for that answer.

I was just trying to figure out how all the youngins are

listing these old parts on ebay.

most are all over the place. you dont have to be young and dumb

to ask what some would think everyone should know.

some can be old and semi domb like me.

thanks again

[MCHinson]

doberman, I think it is great that you got carried away. I enjoyed reading your posts.

Trunk Rack, You have me confused. The NC license plate on my 1929 Ford says "Antique Auto".

I am 48 years old. I am not sure if you consider me and old Curmudgen or a Young guy, I am just going to call my 1929 Ford and my 1976 Ford, Old Cars.

[1937hd45]

Why do you guys let someone with 1 or 2 posts suck you in? There must be 20 threads on this floating around. I would suggest he uses the search function and he'll find plenty of information on the use of the words, Antique, Classic, antique, classic, etc...

What are you talking about? A new guy comes out of the blue and generated FOUR pages of replies, go back over the past 2 months of the AACA Forun and count the number of posts with better than 4 pages, bet there aren't many.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

Trunk Rack, You have me confused. ...JOIN THE CROWD. WE ARE ALL CONFUSED. I REMEMBER WHEN I FIRST GOT CONFUSED....(THE DAY I DISCOVERD GIRLS.....!)

. . . . .

The NC license plate on my 1929 Ford says "Antique Auto". . . .

SO ?

IF YOU LIKE CALLING A MODEL A FORD AN ANTIQUE, WHY NOT ! YES, THERE WAS A TIME WHEN A MODEL A, WITH ITS FOUR WHEEL INTERNAL EXPANDING BRAKES, ON-BOARD ELECTRICAL GENERATOR WITH ELECTRIC LIGHTS, BALLON TIRES, MONO BLOCK ENGINE CONSTRUCTION, WATER PUMP, ETC., ETC., WAS CONSIDERED WAY TOO TECHNICALLY ADVANCED (WHEN COMPARED TO CARS MADE BEFORE OH, SAY 1918, ) TO BE CONSIDERED AN ANTIQUE.

BUT THAT WAS THEN. THIS IS NOW. AGAIN, WHY NOT CALL IT AN ANTIQUE IF YOU LIKE THE SOUND OF THE WORD ?

. . . . . I am 48 years old. I am not sure if you consider me and old Curmudgen or a Young guy, . . . . . . .

YOU ARE SO MUCH YOUNGER THAN ME, I WILL CALL YOU A KID ! . . . . . . .

I am just going to call my 1929 Ford and my 1976 Ford, Old Cars. . . . . . .

THEY ARE YOUR CARS. CALL EM WHAT PLEASES YOU ! IF SOMEONE DOSNT LIKE WHAT YOU CALL EM, THAT'S THEIR PROBLEM ! . . .

.......

[alsancle]

What are you talking about? A new guy comes out of the blue and generated FOUR pages of replies, go back over the past 2 months of the AACA Forun and count the number of posts with better than 4 pages, bet there aren't many.

Bob, this is what I love about the HAMB. When guys with 3 posts start asking dumb questions they get roasted.

[Guest Trunk Rack]

Nobody's "roasting" anyone - lighten up - we are having fun. And if we can help out with some info. to people who arent as lucky as us to have the knowledge we do, then DOUBLE the fun as we 1) have a good time and 2) actually help some people

[Guest DeSoto Frank]

A car is also a "Classic" when it is a mid-sized Rambler, made between 1961 and 1966...

:cool:

[Guest doberman]

Nobody's "roasting" anyone - lighten up - we are having fun. And if we can help out with some info. to people who arent as lucky as us to have the knowledge we do, then DOUBLE the fun as we 1) have a good time and 2) actually help some people

trunk rack is rite on and I am having the most fun with this that I could

ever have.

Some people think that if you dont know the answer to what they conseve

dumb or they should not have the right to be on the forums need to seek

some sort of help.

Geting ready to join the aaca soon and hope to be welcomed to it.

DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HAAM BUT DONT THIMK I NOW WOULD EVEN CONSIDER LOOKING IN TO IT.

If all new newbies that ask for help because they truly dont know

get ROASTED then i wander what will happen to the futer of these

fact finding forums when all us elders are on the wrong side of the grass.

The only one I would like to be rosted by is Dean Martin and I dont Know

why but I missed out on that too.

If you cant be kind then be silent. Quote from my dear departed dad