herbertg Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 I am hoping someone on this forum can help me with this problem! I have a 1919 Buick that I thought up until now was having problems with the Stewart vaccum tank. However, after today I am starting to second guess that. For the last twenty years, I have always seen my dad prime the tank to get the car started and all would be fine. However, this trick quit working for me. I have eliminated the vacuum tank as the culprit. I verified I can suck gas from the tank and the carb is definetely getting gas. The issue I noticed today is after filling the vacuum tank with gas (keep in mind this car has not been run much in the past three years) I started the car and it didn't want to idle up. It seems to me that the engine is not getting enough gas even though the vaccum tank is full.The only way the engine would continue to run is if I kept the choke engaged. Once I turn it over to run or hot, it died. I also noticed the that float in the carb was stuck. I was able to loosen it so it would float again, but still no luck. I have since taken the carb out. I would like to rebuilt it.Based on what I have said here, does someone have any advice on how to troubleshoot? A friend of mine who rebuilds Model A engines wondered if one of the pistons in the engine is stuck. Based on how the engine sounded when it was running, I really doubt that. Can someone suggest a place where I can buy a kit to rebuild the carb or offer another route to pursue to get this guy running right?Thank you for the help,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandy Dave Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Sounds like you may have a problem with the spring in the air adjustment butterfly. It could be broken. Dandy Dave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Just a comment, when I have to keep the choke pulled out it usually means that I have an air leak, broken gasket or burned out tube in the casting above the carb (sorry, I do not know what that is called) allowing more air than needed into the system. John in VA23-45 McLaughlin Buick28-29 Buick Town Brougham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney Eaton Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Lind Coop is the BCA technical advisor for updraft Marvel carbs. Phone number and a address listed on BCA site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 First thing I would do is find a Dykes encyclopedia and rread through their description of the carb. They are really pretty simple if you understand how they work. There are only two gaskets and an Oring for the low speed jet so there really isn't a kit for them. If your float still has the original shellac, you will need to seal it with something that will handle the alcohol in todays gas, I.E. model airplane dope, thin epoxy sealer or even superglue as long as it is not to thick. If you have checked this, then adjust it as per directions. They can be taken apart and cleaned easily. let us know how far you get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 If your float was stuck it is possible that you have a tiny bit of cork from it stuck in the idle jet. This could be why your engine will not idle or run without quite a bit of choke. My car has a different Marvel carb but I spent a number of years taking it apart and blowing out the jet. Finally I made a brass float rather than my old beat up cork one. Havn't had a problem since (16 months, 17,000 miles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbertg Posted June 5, 2009 Author Share Posted June 5, 2009 Guys, I want to thank you for all the replies and help you have all given me. One thing that I found after removing the carb, (DandyDaves was right) is the spring in the air adjustment butterfly was not right. I bought a carb rebuild kit today and plan on rebuilding it and using a different float as Tinindian pointed out. The Dykes encyclopedia offers all the instructions I need to get the air adjustment right once the carb in back on. I will let you guys know when it is back together and if I encounter any new problems! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbertg Posted June 12, 2009 Author Share Posted June 12, 2009 Guys, I wanted to let everyone know I got the carb rebuilt and what a difference the made with the way the car runs! There is a drip that is coming from the carb however. It is not completely tight. Every ten seconds or so a drip of gas will leak from it. It looks like it is coming from directly underneath the carb with the brass bolt. I think some permatex will solve that issue. Anyway, there is still a problem with the vacuum tank not sucking gas. After I put the rebuilt carb on, I filled the vacuum tank so the carb would have a steady fresh supply of gas. Got the car started, made some small adjustments to the carb and it ran beautifully. However, it stalled once all the gas was used in the vacuum tank. I filled the vacuum tank once again and it ran great until it ran out of gas again. So the new issue now is the suction. Does someone know what the suction should be from the manifold to get gas out of the engine? Does someone have any ideas on how to test the vaccum tank? I think I am losing air somewhere, but not sure how to test for a leak.Thanks Guys,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Steve, usually the problem can be solved by opening the tank and inspecting for damaged or worn parts; and by replacing the two cork gaskets is where an air leak usually happens. You can make these gaskets or several folks sell them for about $7 each. Check the inner tank for rust through; make sure the springs trip the filler mechanism and are not broken or streched. I put in a clear filter in the fuel line so I could watch the fuel being sucked into the vacuum tank. You can remove it if you want after everything is sorted out and working. Hope that this helps. John in VA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 If a leak is coming from the bottom bolt of the carburator , I assume you mean the low speed jet. There is a nut there and the little t shaped jet adjustment. Most likely the nut is either not quite tight enough or the gasket is leaking. I would try tightening it just a little, and if that doesn't work then replace it. If you fit a small rubber oring in it it will work just fine.On your vacuum tank, you need to familiarise yourself with the way it works and then systematically go through it step by step to find the problem. There are several places that can cause a problem in these tanks. Look in your Dykes or find one of the numerous articles in Skinned Knuckles that covers these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I have a pdf of the Steward Vacuum Tank instructions. Send me and email & I will sent it to you.durcodude@comcast.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbertg Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Guys, Does someone have the wiring diagram for this particular car? It is a 1919 K45. I noticed something today that concerns me. There was a 12 volt battery in it! My uncle and I believe it is a six volt system, but need to wiring diagram to confirm. If someone knows of the top of their hear, please tell! Thanks,Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Steve,I have one. Send me an email address.Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbertg Posted June 18, 2009 Author Share Posted June 18, 2009 Sorry guys, forgot to include me email address. My direct personal email is sanderson1@sprintmail.com.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 It is now in your mail box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted June 18, 2009 Share Posted June 18, 2009 Steve,Fix your e-mail box. The message & diagram was returned saying that you only accept pre-approved emails.Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Steve,Did the schematic help?Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Rawling Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 If the gas is dripping out of the carburetor, the solution is a different set up on the needle and seat or polishing the needle and seat with fine polishing compount. Even that may not work. On my 1928 there is a shut off valve on the fuel filter below the vacuum tank which solves that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
56Roadmaster Posted July 8, 2009 Share Posted July 8, 2009 Another thought, is your tank vent working properly? Is it actually venting? If the vent is plugged you will apply a vaccum on the both chambers of the tank and prevent the fuel from flowing into the carb. It will fool you because every time you open the tank to refill it you remove the vacuum and gas flows down to the carb again. Sometimes you can get those stupid mud wasps plugging the vent tube. Ways to check for proper vacuum, first check the vacuum line from the engine to the tank for integrity and possible tap offs that have broken lines/rubber hoses (such as for a windshield wiper). Next check if the line is clear, blow or run a wire through. Next with engine running and the line disconnected at the tank, and connected to the manifold, put your finger over the line and if its pulling a vacuum you'll feel it, or if you have a vacuum gauge handy check it with that- probably should be 12-15" vacuum. If that's ok reconnect the vacuum line to the tank, then disconnect the fuel inlet line (gas tank to vacuum tank line) again start the engine and check for vacuum at the inlet to the vacuum tank in the same manner as above. If the vacuum is present at the engine to tank side but not at the fuel inlet side, then the tank is not sealing internally. If vacuum is present, it could be the gas tank cap may not be venting, the vacuum tank not venting, tank float stuck closed, or a restricted fuel line.My 3 cents Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Rawling Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Where did you buy the carbuetor rebuild kit and did it have the air valve spring in it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Rawling Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Where did you get the carburetor rebuild kit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I'm trying to remove the Marvel carb on my 23 Buick..Looked pretty simple but there seem to be a single small screw attaching the body of the carburator to the manifold that is not reachable by any technique I've found. Do you have to remove the entire manifold assembly to remove the carb? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 You should be able to remove only the carb by removing the two bolts that mount it to the heat riser. You may be trying to remove the heat riser that mounts directly to the manifold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbbuick22 Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 southjk, There are two 1/2" headed bolts just above the throttle linkage, remove those, the bolt for the heat riser tubes, the fuel line and the carb will come off, be carefull of the choke link slide. JB22-6-55 Sport Touring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 thanks for the tip. I was hoping I could remove just the carb body and not involve the heat riser tube assembly and need to disconnect the idle and choke linkage. The set screws that attach the far end of the riser tubes are brittle and one has broken off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 well the carb is off along with the riser tube assembly. I realize know ..I think..that I could have removed the other screw that holds the little bracket that joins the carb body to the riser housing but I didn't see any way to get to it. The cork float looks in tact but very rough and maybe the source of my fuel starvation issue. Does anyone know if new ones are available for a 1923 Buick useing the Marvel 65 1 stamped on the body of the carb? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 Bob's Automobilia has a cork float that you may have to modify, it is for a 1926. Cost is $5 plus shipping. Download his catalog, it is on page 7. If you cut or modify it you will have to recoat it with sealer or super glue. Hope this helps.Bob's Automobilia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 and Snyder's also has float making materials that you might want to use in case you cannot find an exact fit. Product Search | Snyders Antique Auto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 thanks...could you use fuel tank coating/sealer to encapsulate the cork float? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unimogjohn Posted July 29, 2009 Share Posted July 29, 2009 I would think yes if it was not too thick that would weigh down the float. Have you pulled out your old float? Is it gas logged? You can dry them out and re-coat. I have heard that folks have made their own floats out of wine bottle corks and coated them. Never seen or done that yet. Good luck, and await more 1923 Buick videos on YouTube. You have a nice original car. Great you are keeping her running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickelroadster Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 I would strongly recommend that you don't try using gas tank sealer to seal the float. I did that once and it never quite hardened which allowed it to scuff off and it also didn't adhere to the cork very well. The cork became gaslogged again in short order. Different brands of gas tank sealer may be ok, but why not use something that you know will work. thin, slow drying superglue works well. Two part epoxy wood sealers or model airplane fuelproof dope also work well. Keep it as light as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 cork seems like I could still use it.thanks for help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted July 30, 2009 Share Posted July 30, 2009 thanks for that great advice. That fuel tank sealer did a great job on the tank refurb I had to do but I'll use the fuel proof dope.thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest southjk Posted August 26, 2009 Share Posted August 26, 2009 Steve,Did you ever get your problem figured out? I'm having similar issues with my 23 Buick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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