disable teves abs?

[Guest ekvh]

Does anyone know if there is an easy way to disable the abs system on the 88 Reatta? I can't stand them and think they are dangerous. It appears to be in good working order, but like I said I hate them. Will I put the rest of the system in jeopardy if I do?

[Richard S]

If you are concerned with safety, I don't think simply "disabling" the ABS function will resolve that. I would think you might want to remove the Teves unit and replace with a standard brake booster/master cylinder? I have to think that a unit from some GM product, probably a Riviera, would be a bolt up to our Reatta brake pedal. Might require a little work with the brake lines. Seems to me that I recall someone on this forum did just that.

[Guest TommyH]

ABS is a saftey feature. Do you hate ABS, or TEVES braking system?

[Guest ekvh]

I hate any abs, when you are on partially ice covered roads you don't have near as much stopping power.

[Guest ekvh]

I don't know enough about the teves, but from what I read, it isn't the best.

[Guest TommyH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ekvh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I hate any abs, when you are on partially ice covered roads you don't have near as much stopping power. </div></div>

Thats why you don't slam on th brakes. The whole purpose of ABS is to pretevnt the wheels from locking up so you dont loose control of the car. But, that is you opinion. I do agree that the TEVES system probably isn't the best, because of all the reuied mantinence, and fail points.

[Guest ekvh]

I drive in NW Minnesota and Manitoba Canada. We have roads that are often packed in strips of ice along the road. The abs systems I have driven take much longer to stop because the abs senses one wheel slipping and begins the pulsing process. Experience tells you to keep two of the four wheels on dry pavement and you have no trouble stopping. It really takes much longer to stop with the abs working. I have driven many other makes on ice and they all feel the same to me. ABS is undoubtedly better for inexperienced drivers on icy roads, or on completely icy roads. I guess it's something I noticed and my mechanics who also race on dirt tracks find is true. They were saying that if you have even one tire that is a bit more worn than the others, the abs only senses slipping and begins working. I also wonder after seeing the NTSB's findings this summer on how much less traction a car has with a less than new tread depth on rain slicked roads. I forget the amount, but their reccommendation was to change tires much sooner than previously thought. I hope to get out of this frozen tundra and somewhere nice like New Mexico someday. My personal feeling is that abs probably causes unnecessary accidents for experienced drivers, and I'll bet there is data to prove that. I am skeptical that our government would release that info. They look at the whole gamut and it probably is better for most drivers and that is better for the whole group.

[Guest TommyH]

Well, if you feel that way, you should be able to just find a Riv or some other similar car, and swap the whole thing. I think it should bolt right up, as GM doesn't seem to re-engineer anything unless they have to.( case in point is the Northstar conversion)

[DAVES89]

Couldn't you just acomplish the desired result by disconnecting the abs sensor lead to one of the wheels? I only got mine to work again by replacing the 2 front sensor leads.

[ang3l]

you,you...you just b happy you have abs, some of us don't have it:)

[Dandy Dave]

I came near to getting clobberd a few year back because of that d**m system. I was coming out of a rather steep driveway that was a little slippery. And I knew if I had just good old fashioned brakes I could have kept the car under control. With the ABS the vehical just kept rolling. There was a pick up truck comming, and lucky for me, who ever was driving it saw what was happening and stopped before my car went across a county road. I was driving a 93 Ford Explorer. Since then I noticed that if I start it before the computer completely sets, the ABS light come on and stays on disabling the ABS. This little flaw has since saved my butt more than once because the brakes work just like good old fashioned brakes and I drive it that way in the winter. I bet if you get into the Reatta wiring schematics you could find the "Magic Wire" that would disable that thing and still be able to drive the car. you could put a switch on it and be able to shut it off or turn it on if you like. Just one question. Why do you drive your Reatta in the winter on snow covered and salted roads? That stuff makes em rust! Would it not be better to get a winter beater and save the rare Reatta for sunny days? Just curious. My nickels worth on ABS. Dave!

[Guest DTerry]

Wouldn't disconnecting the control module in the trunk disable the system without illuminating the SES light?

[Guest ekvh]

FYI: I just unplugged the wires going into the harness on the abs under the hood. It seems to work fine without it. I feel much safer and am sure I can stop faster without it. A small piece of black tape and the dash light doesn't annoy me. I still have the red light to warn me of low brake pressure. I have driven plenty of abs cars and they're all junk, in my opinion.

I have a ways to go before I say I like the Reatta. About 12-14 mpg lately. I swapping the thermostat tonight. I drove it 110 miles this morning with a visegrip on the top rad return hose and still got lousy mileage. and the temp light never came on. I got a little better heat out of it, but I guess I better check the evaporator door to see if it's working or not. I should be able to get an easy 28mpg on the highway with this motor.

[Jim]

I am not sure which connectors you unplugged but I would suggest putting them back ASAP as some of those connectors are needed for the regular braking and the power braking feature. If you want to disable the ABS function, on the drivers side in the trunk behind the padding is the ABS computer. Disconnect that connector.

On a side note if your brake fluid has not been changed in the last couple of years it is very important that you do so. Dirty fluid is VERY harmful to the Teves system.

I just bought a VW and they recommend changing the fluid every year.

[Guest DTerry]

I've had mine for almost 5 years, and the abs was inop when I bought it. I got it working intermittently for a few days a couple of years ago, but basically it's been inop the whole time. Would you believe that it mysteriously began working yesterday and I had abs almost all day (drove 200 miles) during the slush on the roads? Didn't particularly like it, but that's not the point. It gave up again last night. Spooky, huh?

[Barney Eaton]

I don't claim to know much about the engine controls but two things that can hurt gas mileage is the oxygen sensor and the EGR unit. I recently read about the EGR in another magazine and they can be removed and cleaned.

If they are sticking open or closed, they can hurt mileage.

[padgett]

Something is really rong but it would take a complete analysis to determine what. For example if the thermostat is stuck open so it never warms up past 146F then it will never go into closed cycle, the trans will not lock up, and the MPG will be terrible.

[dnt]

HOw hard is it to get at, remove and clean the EGR?

[Richard S]

Not hard at all since it sits top right rear of the engine. Just an electrical connector and two bolts as I recall. Easy to clean. Just pay attention when you disassemble, and make sure you get the special gasket it takes before you start the job since the original tends to tear or disintegrate.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dnt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HOw hard is it to get at, remove and clean the EGR? </div></div>

Careful about applying too much force to the bolts. They have been known to break off easily. Use a good penetrating oil a day or two before removing. Aero Kroil is the best but hard to find.

[Guest ekvh]

I was unsure of which ones to uplug in the back, but I seem to have complete braking abiltiy. It's been disconnected for around a month.

[Guest kennyw]

well finally someone tells the truth about abs brakes. I also hate them. They are for dummies who drive. Lets face it. Most people just stand on the brake pedel when trying to contorl a steering, brakeing problem. That is why the system was invented. I too have had a few time when they almost caused an accident. One report, probably on the history channel showed a ford truck stop on dry pavement with/and without the system. The truck stopped sooner without the system working. ken

[Guest TommyH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kennyw</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well finally someone tells the truth about abs brakes. I also hate them. They are for dummies who drive. Lets face it. Most people just stand on the brake pedel when trying to contorl a steering, brakeing problem. That is why the system was invented. I too have had a few time when they almost caused an accident. One report, probably on the history channel showed a ford truck stop on dry pavement with/and without the system. The truck stopped sooner without the system working. ken</div></div>

The system was designed to prevent loss of control when braking. If you didn't have ABS, and slamed on the brakes while trying to steer around something, you would probably go into a skid/drift. Abs is supposed to stop the car, while letting you steer with the minimal possiblity of slide. It was not intended to make you stop faster.

[dnt]

ken<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (ABS)... was not intended to make you stop faster. </div></div>

Absolutely agreed. ABS was intended to do nothing more than make it easier to retain directional control in slippery conditions--but it does NOT allow faster stopping. Typically, locking the brakes will stop you the fastest, but then again, if doing so causes loss of directional control, that could be a bad thing. In the end, I think ABS is good for an inexperiended driver, but an experienced driver could do much better without ABS by exercising judgment that ABS takes away, such as pumping brakes quickly if directional control is an issue or hard/lock-up the wheels braking if the situation dictates.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Typically, locking the brakes will stop you the fastest, but then again, </div></div>

I believe you are going to have some that disagree. I will be the first. Friction between tires and asphalt are the greatest at the point just prior to a slide, and it decreases as soon as you start sliding. One of the reasons is because a sliding tire generates so much heat at the contact patch that the rubber there begins to liquefy and act as a lubricant which allows the tire to move easier over the roadway than it would without sliding. To make the fastest stop possible you want to use enough brake to 'almost' make the tires slide.

This is not to say that ABS will make the car stop faster than an experienced race car driver but it would certainly help anyone in a panic situation that locks the brakes and holds them.

BTW, I personally do not like ABS.

[Guest DTerry]

And I'll have to be the second. TDman stated it correctly. I have been using anti-skid brakes since the sixties in B707, B727, DC9, etc., and I will attest that the stoppingest method is Anti-skid on and maximum pressure on the brake pedal(s). When a skid is sensed the brake releases and re-applies at a much faster rate than the best of us could do. It saved my fanny in my wife's Explorer when I topped the hill and - distracted by the radio with it's 37 dual function buttons - realized that the car with no brake lights or turn signals was stopped in the middle of my lane. Dark and light rain. I tromped the brake; it went brrrrrpppp, and I was able to haul it down while steering around him onto the shoulder in full control the whole time. Without it I'm pretty sure I would have hit him. There just was no time to react other than tromp it. I'm just as sure that even A.J. or Bobby would have been in the same sandwich; it was that quick.

We like to think that we're better than the mechanical stuff - so do I - but it just ain't so. The autopilot will fly a more precise approach than you will any day of the week.

[dnt]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TDman</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Friction between tires and asphalt are the greatest at the point just prior to a slide, and it decreases as soon as you start sliding. </div></div>

That is no doubt true. But I would submit that most serious braking events are of very short duration and that locking-up the brakes will either result in a shorter stop or that the differance between what an expert driver could do and a lock-up stop would be negligible. And that's the story I'm sticking with.

[jonlabree]

I agree with TDman completely. Once you start sliding you have losse all ability to stop quickly.

[Richard S]

I think Dave's story illustrates the salient point. The true test of the system is not whether ones life will be saved by being able to stop 5 feet one way or the other. The true test arises when one is simply not going to be able to bring the car to a stop before hitting an object, whether you have or don't have abs and whether you are AJ Foyt or Princess Di's chaffeur. In my view, Dave, TD, and 63 are correct because the true measure is when you need to BOTH bring the car to a rapid halt, AND take evasive measures at the same time. That, I believe, is the genius of abs.

[wwebb]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ekvh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Does anyone know if there is an easy way to disable the abs system on the 88 Reatta? I can't stand them and think they are dangerous. It appears to be in good working order, but like I said I hate them. Will I put the rest of the system in jeopardy if I do? </div></div>

AMEN ! I can not speak to the scientific theories being set forth as to how hard you should press on the brake pedal to make the car stop. But, I have over 40 years driving experience and all my ABS experience recollections are negative, how the system caused me to stop in a greater distance than if I had control of the brakes myself. I do not recollect a single incident where the ABS "saved" me from a dangerous situation. If I only knew which wires to clip, I would install a DPDT switch with one side disabling the idiot light and the other side disabling the ABS computer. PLEASE someone figure out how to disable the ABS (AWFUL Braking System) without having the idiot light on.

[Guest DTerry]

Simple. Have you disconnected the control module in the trunk? If the light is on, just remove the bulb. I drove mine for two years before I realized that the light didn't test on the start-up test sequence. Previous owner just removed the bulb. I didn't even know I didn't have anti-skid, and I still don't have it, and don't care, but those aren't scientific "theories". It's physical fact.

I do intend to fix it in the spring. If I'd ever had a panic situation, the loud collision noise would probably have drawn it to my attention.

[Guest ekvh]

heh heh heh heh! The computer still does not sense one wheel at a time, perhaps that should be the next step...any engineers out there. I'll repeat the situ where anti-locks suck!! when one side of the car is on ice and the other side on dry pavement. Stomp on the brakes without abs and you'll stop quickly. Stomp on the brakes with abs and you won't. It's as simple as that, and because two wheels have traction you won't go into a skid unless you're doing around 180 mph. In the summer time, if you have one tire slightly bald in the rain or maybe hit a patch of grease, it slips and then the abs takes over slowing the ability of the non-slipping tires to slow you down.

The above post has a good idea. It would be nice to switch it on and off to the driver's choice.

[Guest steveskyhawk]

I tend to agree with the disable ABS crowd. I have 40 years of driving experience also and have flown aircraft with ABS. The ABS on the aircrft I fly aircraft has a switch that allows you to disable the ABS because you cant trap the pressure required for setting the parking brake with ABS on. Many years ago I drove trucks that had ABS on the trailers. The company disabled them due to complaints from the drivers. I really believe that stopping sideways is better than not stopping at all IMHO. I believe the ABS on aircraft work well due to the fact you are always stopping strait ahead and the brake system is actually two seperate systems both left and right and brakes can be used to steer under some circumstances.

My question is a legal one. If a vehicle has ABS, doesn't the design of the brake system take full control of that brake system FROM the operator? If so doesn't the manufacturer share some liability if there is a loss? Any Leagle Eagles out there? I believe this could be argued.

[Guest EDBSO]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DTerry</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I drove mine for two years before I realized that the light didn't test on the start-up test sequence. Previous owner just removed the bulb. I didn't even know I didn't have anti-skid, and I still don't have it, and don't care, but those aren't scientific "theories". It's physical fact. </div></div>

I have news for all of you. My system was properly maintained, flushed, newer accumulator etc. When I tested it at highway speeds on a quiet piece of road I was able to easily lock and flatspot the front right tire. Left a cloud of intense blue smoke cloud and a long black streak on the right side and gained a vibration.

With everything being up to spec and all lights working properly I still did not have perfectly or even properly working abs. I recommend that all test theirs safely.

I believe in abs for all but deep snow or graver where you stop faster by locking up and digging in.

Also when even 1 wheel starts to "vibrate" due to anti lock you can continue to decrease your stopping distance by applying even more force and getting the other 3 wheels up to their maximum braking levels. Today the most modern abs systems automatically apply maximum force when even 1 wheel locks up.

[Ronnie]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> heh heh heh heh! The computer still does not sense one wheel at a time, perhaps that should be the next step...any engineers out there. </div></div>

Wrong again my man. The following is what the engineers at GM had to say about how the ABS system operated when they wrote the Field Service Manual:

[Guest ekvh]

If this is true, why can I stop much faster in the situ described? It's the same in the 01 Lesabre I had. If the passenger side tires are on ice and the driver's are on dry pavement, a non-abs stops faster. Just because the conputer has the ability to read the lines, that takes time to sense, read ,and interpret the data. I'll take my eyes and my senses over a computer any day. I have driven Chevies and Fords and get the same feeling. ABS doesn't work well in all situations.

[Guest TommyH]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: ekvh</div><div class="ubbcode-body">that takes time to sense, read ,and interpret the data. I'll take my eyes and my senses over a computer any day.situations.</div></div>

The time it takes you to <span style="font-style: italic">react</span> is what is most important. Motors and solenoids can react in the time it takes you to think about what you are going to do. That is why computers are used. It is a saftey feature. If you want to argue that, but it seems to me that people with lots of driving experiance seem to dislike abs, while most others like it. Maybe you just dislike computers, a predujice you didn't know you had...

[Guest DTerry]

<span style="font-style: italic"><span style="font-weight: bold">"I'll take my eyes and my senses over a computer any day".</span></span>

and you'll lose. I like to think that I can out-perform the mechanical stuff, too, but I can't. You and I can't react in the same length of time a properly functioning system can.

My barber is like that. I sit down and tell him, "Bob, get out your Flowbee so it'll be even on top". His reply is always, "Hell, I don't need no Flowbee"....and it's always uneven. I know people who won't use the flight director on Instrument approaches (Hell, I don't need no flight director) and I've spent enough time instructing in both airplanes and simulators to know that it just ain't so.

If I'd had anti-skid in my 66 Mustang in 1968 when a drunk abruptly pulled out in front of me, maybe I wouldn't have hit him in the left rear hubcap. Flat-spotted all four tires. Panic stop, no time to modulate brakes, and after the first 3 feet or so of skid, the tires were hydroplaning on melted rubber. Lessee, 3 feet at 88 feet per second is about .03 seconds - think you can react that rapidly? ABS would have prevented that; would have applied maximum deceleration without lock up.

...And - as someone else recently stated on here - in the words of Forrest Gump, "That's all I've got to say about that".

[Guest steveskyhawk]

I like the flight director too but on a good day I can fly a smoother IlS without it. Thats why i use the flight director. The good days are few and far between!

[dnt]

Nothing like a good debate. I think it is safe to say no matter what the arguments, some of us dislike and some will love ABS. Another reason to have a switch to control whether ABS is operational. ;-)