1965rivgs

Expensive neighborhood.... Tom

Just a correction to my post from 2010...the assist spring hooks into a notch in the LOWER clamshell. Tom Mooney

Looks to me like the armrest extension is missing and when installed might cover the hole for the wiring harness? Tom Mooney

Eric, Give me a call, Tom Mooney

Is it possible the speaker leads are not "phased" or a bad speaker? Tom

Eric, The plugs look fine. What would be more typical, especially in a dual quad car, is a more sooty appearance as most cars do not have the choke setup properly and are operated in a fashion that encourages rich fouling. To add to that situation, someone has installed cold plugs which was most likely a poor choice for the manner in which the car is being used (making the assumption you are not engaging in "motorsports'). The 44`s have been unavailable for quite a few years but there are other choices beside AC and in the proper heat range. I use NGK and have had good service from them. Put in a new set of plugs and you will most probably notice an improvement in starting and idle quality. Tom Mooney

Just another thought, Dave. Is the blower motor on high when you turn on the A/C? If so, you might want to try to turn down the blower speed to see if that makes a difference in your voltage fluctuation. There is a high blower breaker mounted on the "+" junction block on the driver`s fenderwell. Good luck, Tom

Hi Mike, It is very hard to make an informed, comprehensive decision over the internet but because you referenced your age and not wanting to get financially buried in this car I am somewhat skeptical about this example. Was this car located in a salt air environment? I ask because it appears, from the few pics posted, that there is heavy rust in upper body areas where condensation has collected. These areas are very difficult to form metal patches for....and that is the only lasting remedy for rust repair. On the other hand, I have seen cars with this type of rust, ocean cars, which are very sound in the frame and floor pans due to the absence of road salt, etc..and will still be structurally sound after repairs and represent a sound "base" to start from. Hard to tell without many more pics. But my initial reaction, referencing your priorities/goals, and the few pics posted, is RUN AWAY and do as Mitch has suggested. It still amazes me that there are so many high quality first generation cars which are still available at very attractive prices. Stay cool down in Texas, good luck! Tom Mooney

Sid, Post some pics...provide a link to your Ebay auction...more info like colors/equipment??? The more effort you put into your listing the better the response. Even the bowtie guys need to provide info to prospective buyers. Just some constructive (hopefully) input, Good luck with your sale, Tom Mooney

150 amps output from the alt??? Either someone has extensively modified the charging system (and hopefully the wiring to accommodate this output) or someone is in error. Full throttle upshifts should be a function of the governor, part throttle the responsibility of the modulator. There is a remote possibility the compressor could be locking up (bad bearing/clutch coil) or overloaded (too much refrigerant/oil) but I agree I would expect belt slippage/noise or a blown fuse. However, sounds like a modified scenario so anything goes. Bypass the switch altogether with a jumper wire for "on" and a momentary jumper wire for "start". See if your problem goes away. Much easier/time efficient and more definitive than taking voltage readings or doing voltage drops across the switch. The cloth covered wire is a resistance wire between the switch and the ignition coil. Its purpose is to drop the voltage level across the points to prevent burning/arcing. THIS WIRE DOES GO BAD. Bypass/supplement this wire with a standard wire to eliminate the possibility the original resistance wire is causing your problem. Dont run the car too long with full system voltage to the coil for the aforementioned reason. Good luck, Tom Mooney

The wheels are distorting when the force of braking is being applied to them. I had this happen on a Buick road wheel once...had me scratching my head for answers for a few days. I`d remove the wheels and have a shop familiar with wire wheels check the spokes for tightness and true the wheels. Tom Mooney

Havnt looked at a schematic for awhile but I recall the tailight circuit voltage originates at the taillight fuse, travels to and thru the headlight switch back to the taillights. Check the taillight fuse, for voltage at the headlight switch if still accessible. At this point you can choose to check the circuit starting in the front or from the back. I would look for accessible connectors like one in the trunk or where the traditional wiring harness from the under dash area connects into the flat ribbon harness which travels under the carpeting...that connector should be in the driver`s footwell. Good luck, Tom Mooney

Your description of the work/troubleshooting performed is a little confusing but if it helps the turn signal flasher and brake light switch are both fused thru the same fuse, should be marked "dir sign". The brake lights and signals also have the turn signal switch in common but be careful assuming both issues are related...they may not be. Best to troubleshoot each issue separately. Do you have a wiring diagram??? Tom Mooney

Hi Kraig, Send me a PM with your email address. I think I can help you along, Tom Mooney

Hi Frank, Sounds like you may have created a problem with the solution to the first problem. Do you still have the old alternator and regulator? If so you might consider reinstalling the original components to get back to a situation in which the amp light is functioning as expected...in other words, go back to square. Troubleshoot each component in the system instead of a wholesale replacement of components. At that point I would do as Jim has suggested STARTING WITH THE BATTERY. To properly load the battery to determine its condition requires a charging system tester which places a load on the battery while recording the maintained voltage level. Most hobbyists do not have the proper tool for this, and that includes the counter kid at the local chain store auto parts counter, but any decent shop should. As Jim has suggested I expect you will find a low quality replacement regulator as the source of your problem. If you need a reference to an electrical expert I have a friend who I consider a genius with electrical charging system issues. Advice and parts are available thru him. Send me a PM for contact info if interested, good luck! Tom Mooney

Hi Ed, I suspected this was the source of your reference but I havnt read that article for years. I have dozens of letters written between myself and Leonard regarding many details about the `65 GS cars but I dont recall ever discussing the quick steering box. If my memory serves me well the article you are referring to was also co-authored by Darwin Falk? I suspect that is how the mistake in the `66 literature made its way into the article...if it is, indeed, a mistake. Darwin is an expert on the `66 cars and would probably have referenced `66 literature for the article. This is just speculation on my part in the interest of providing the most accurate info possible. An inquiry to the original authors would be in order to clear things up. Again, it has been many years since I researched this topic but I`m quite sure the `66 Riv I checked had the same number of turns lock to lock as my `65 cars. The `66 I checked was a completely restored car but I`m sure, because of that, I checked the date code on the steering box to be sure it was not replaced with a unit from a different year. Perhaps someone with an original, low mileage `66 could check the number of turns lock to lock and contribute some data to this discussion. Tom Mooney

Hi Jim...so your ride height figures are acquired from aftermarket replacement springs? I`m not crazy about the aftermarket as a source of evidence, especially when it comes to coil springs. Moog marketed the same springs for Rivieras and Electras for years which produced an inaccurately high rear ride height for the first gen cars. The Super Lift shocks are air shocks. Interesting info regarding the absence of HD shocks for the Riviera in the parts book. Any concrete conclusions drawn boil down to "If it is not in the parts book then Buick didnt build it". Obviously the best scenario would be to find an original survivor with the HD option and do some detective work. Like a needle in a haystack... Yes, front spring rates are always different for AC equipped cars due to the weight of the AC components. Tom Mooney

Both the Skylark and Riviera models were referred to by Buick as "Gran Sport" in 1965. This evolved into both the Skylark and Riviera "GS" models for `66 and beyond. The "GS" identification is obviously an acronym for "Gran Sport". I believe the experts that Ed is referencing are incorrect in their description of the quick steering option. I have owned quite a few `65 GS cars with this option. I have observed that the difference in the quick box is one turn faster than standard, 2 and 7/8ths turns versus 3 and 7/8ths turns. I have never owned a documented quick steering equipped `66 but I recall (it has been quite a few years since I researched this so I could be wrong!) that the standard steering equipped `66 Riviera is also 3 and 7/8ths turns lock to lock. The parts books list the `65 and `66 quick steering boxes as being the same so my experience with the `65 cars should carry over into `66. I would guess the error in Ed`s reference originated in `66 Buick sales literature which prompted me to do the research on the `66 models when I encountered the error many moons ago. More info to add to the proverbial mountain of useless information! Tom Mooney

There are several possible ways to determine if your `64 was equipped with heavy duty or trailering springs. The first is as Jim suggests by measuring ride height. I am somewhat skeptical that this is accurate after 50 years, and possible spring changes, but may be your most easily obtainable data and your only clue. There is another possibility...I have on occasion found a paper part tag still affixed to front and rear springs on both well kept cars and cars needing complete restoration. Look high on the spring, maybe even in the spring pocket, for a yellow paper tag. This tag will have both the GM part number and a two character alpha code (used on the assembly line as documented on the build sheet) for the benefit of the assembly line workers. If you are lucky enough to find the paper tag you will know which springs your car is equipped with. There is another way but not practical...I have often observed the GM part number stamped into the spring but I highly doubt one would be able to view it without disassemby. Hope this helps, Tom Mooney

This is an interesting question for the `64 model year. According to the `64 wholesale car order form there were 2 spring options available for Buicks. There was a 1A option which is described as a "trailer spring (rear springs only)" which would undoubtedly result in a higher ride height which Jim is eluding to. Jim, where did you obtain your ride height data, the `63 shop manual? But, there was also a 1B "Heavy Duty Spring Option-front and rear springs, front and rear shocks. not available on 4747 (Riviera). From the wholesale car order form it would appear the Riviera was only available with the trailering spring option but I have another source of factory literature which clearly lists the heavy duty spring option as available for the Riviera and even gives a price of $5.38 Could it be that both spring options were available at some point but the heavy duty spring option was dropped for the Riviera by the time the wholesale car order form, which I am referencing, dated March 10, 1964, was printed? At this point we are fortunate enough to have Buicks Daily Car Reports and can verify if Buick ever built the Riviera with both options and how many cars were equipped with each. I also have a "1964 Accessories and Options Codes" listing dated Feb 14, 1964 which describes the 1B heavy duty spring option as NOT available on the 4700 (Riviera) models. Let`s see what the Daily Car Report says...... In the 1964 model run Buick produced 161 Rivieras with the 1A trailer spring option. Buick also produced 674 Rivieras with the 1B heavy duty spring option! Of the 674 1B equipped cars 179 were destined for export. Tom Mooney

Just a quick note in addition to Jim`s reply...when working on AC vacuum systems I use an AC vacuum pump to apply constant vacuum. If you do not have a vacuum pump specifically designed for AC service obtain a compressor from an old refrigerator and make one-it is very easy only requiring soldering the appropriate ends. I used a home made vacuum pump such as this to do AC work for years before I could afford to buy a Snap On unit. It works! Tom Mooney

Drew, You can disregard the brake light switch issue which the `63 owners must deal with because the `65 is an electric switch under the dash, not the hydro/electric switch as in `63. It is a very simple conversion which seems more difficult in print than in reality. Disconnect the rear brake line from the junction block and, via a union and a jumper line, plumb the rear brake circuit into the rear port of the new dual reservoir master cylinder. Put a plug in the junction block port from which you removed the rear brake line. Plumb the front port of the dual reservoir master into the junction block via the position which was connected to the original master. That`s it! Be sure the depth of the pushrod hole in the new master is the same as your original master and you should be good to go. A very simple conversion, no rocket science here, good luck, Tom Mooney

Frank, Send me a PM with your email address. I can help, Tom Mooney

TTT

If you are using original `65 wheels the wheels may not slip over the nose of the `64 hub. The nose of the `64 hub is a larger diameter than the `65. I recently sold a set of `65 hubs/drums to a `64 owner who needed a drum and planned to convert to `65 mag wheels. The buyer claimed he had to machine the drums to make them work because they were hitting the backing plate. I didnt have a chance to inspect the car to see what was going on so I took his word for it. I was/am under the impression, except for the size of the nose of the hub, the `64 and `65 hub/drum combo should be interchangeable. Has anyone done such swap? I dont currently own a `64, otherwise I would check, but I am curious. Hope this helps Ryan, Tom Mooney