1965rivgs

Dave, the comment regarding a hitch was just a hunch on my part to possibly explain the 3:23 gears. I asked about holes in the bumper because the factory hitch mounted to the rear bumper. I think I still have a couple of them in the garage which I removed from Rivs over the years. Tom Mooney

I am aware the Olds Starfire models came standard with similar carpet inserts sewn permamently into the carpet (love the Starfires!) but am not aware Olds sold inserts like these as a dealer installed item? What years and models? Tom Mooney

From the `64 Buick Accessories catalog....... Tom

I dont remember a red triangle, it was all black. From the `63 Buick accessories catalog...enjoy Tom Mooney

Looks like you have a 3:23 gear. Given the trans code that is what I would expect and why I asked. With a posi rear one counts the number of turns of the driveshaft versus one full turn of the wheel. A 3:23 rear gear would produce 3.23 turns of the driveshaft for one turn of a wheel. This formula cant be used on an open rear end because the side gears are introduced into the equation. Someone ordered that gear specifically. The standard gear with the 401 powerplant would be a 3:07. Is there any evidence of a trailer hitch? The evidence may be as little as a couple of holes drilled in the lower surface of the rear bumper or a modified rear taillight/stoplight harness. Great all around gear to have, congrats, Tom

Hey Marty, Hope things are going well...well, I thought this question would be very straight forward to answer but I had to dig pretty deep into the ROA and my perswonal library to find a well sourced answer (regarding the original color scheme of the caps). When viewing your question a particular `65 service bulletin came to mind as it contains a very good pic of a tech troubleshooting for voltage on the wires that supply voltage to the headlight motor. I have used this pic as an original reference when determining the original battery post and cable positioning so I assumed I could use it to answer your question...wrong! The pic cuts off the actual battery caps. So, at this point I went to original period magazine road test pics (probably a better source than factory pics due to early model production changes/early prototype considerations) and every article I found cut off the battery from engine compartment pics. I`m sure this was the case because the photographers were no doubt more interested in the dual quads and chrome air cleaner than the battery and all pics were zoomed in too closely to see the battery. I thought your question had me stumped until the last magazine test article I checked revealed the answer. The magazine is the July 16th 1965 issue of Autocar. I suspect this was a weekly publication whose content is very heavy on imports. In their pics is a very good overall engine compartment shot which clearly displays a battery with dark caps ands light colored lettering (black and white photo). I suspect this is the original correct battery due to the correct post arrangement (posts forward) and the cable routing. For kicks I checked the service manuals and found the same battery part number specified for all three first gen years. However, in the `65 manual the battery illustration is the same as used in the earlier shop manuals except that the raised script, which reads "Delco DC-12" has been whited out, very obvious. Dont know why the script was whited out but someone obviously had a good reason to do so....maybe a battery upgrade and subsequent model # change? Perhaps a later edition `65 shop manual or a `66 shop manual would reveal the answer? You almost had me with that question buddy...but no cigar. Better luck next time! Marty, your questions are always challenging as your knowledge is very thorough. If you have a chance give me a call, would love to hear from you, Tom Mooney

Yes, as positive as one can be by using the illustrations in the Buick Accessory catalogs. The `63 compass was much different in appearance. Instead of the barrel shape as seen on the above compass the `63 unit is wedge shaped, very Star Wars in appearance. I had an NOS one years ago that I sold to a `63 Riviera owner. The `63 compass is much rarer than the `64-`66 version. I have never seen another one for sale or installed in a car, just the one I sold years ago. Tom Mooney

Does the oil look like a milkshake? What is indicating to you that water is in the oil? Is the coolant level in the radiator dropping? Tom

Correct for `64 thru `66 Tom Mooney

Nice...Pat, do you have the suction cup that goes on the windshield? Good luck, Tom Mooney

Buddy, If you have trouble finding or are concerned about cost there should be no problem eliminating the sock as long as you run a fuel filter before the carb. I`ve done this many times over the years on beaters, even with sediment fouled tanks, with no problem. Tom Mooney

Dave, After some cranking, as Jim suggests, to fill the fuel bowl you may need to give the engine some help by priming with fuel or starting fluid. Either alternative is OK but if I had to choose one, especially for a novice, I would lean toward ether. No worries about spilling it and creating puddles here and there to catch fire. Also, unless you use enough ether to cause puddling in the intake, no worries about a backfire creating flaming balls of fire around the car and in an enclosed area like a small garage. If you use gasoline I would definitely recommend putting the air cleaner/flame arrestor back in place before cranking. If the engine shows no sign of coughing to life after priming with either source of fuel then check to be sure you have spark. Occasionally, after sitting for an extended period of time the points can stick open or corrode over causing no spark. Shouldnt be a problem in a dry climate like California but worth noting for others in a more humid climate. Sometimes a year in a sellers description is closer to ten. Good luck, sounds like a nice, original piece, Tom Mooney

Dave, Everything looks good, whoever did the engine conversion spent alot of extra time and was thorough, great news! It is very typical, when a Dynaflow engine is mated to a turbo 400, for the hole in the middle of the flexplate to be enlarged which eliminates the raised flange area and weakens the flexplate. I have personally experienced and heard of this from other members many times over the years... Be sure when reassembling the flexplate to the crank that you align the small hole in the flexplate with the drilling in the flange of the crank as seen in one of your photos. This is also a very typical mistake when an engine swap takes place and results in an imbalance that will shake ones molars loose. Is your diff a 3:23? If so, that`s a great gear for all around driveability, best of luck and GREAT pics, Tom Mooney

Thanks Arnulfo, great info. The standard `65 box should be about 3 and 7/8 turns and the quick box a full turn less at about 2 and 7/8 turns lock to lock. There is a date code in the area of the lash adjustment screw. Should be a week/year code. Tom Mooney

Wow, cool car...an Electra 2 -dr, loaded, with buckets. Has to be a pretty rare car. Anyone have the Daily Car Reports for the `62 models? Wonder how many 2-dr Electras had bucket seats? I would think any `62 guy would love to have this one. I`d be tempted to paint it black, retain the saddle interior and add a set of `63 Wildcat Formula Five wheels. Cool car.... Tom Mooney

Hi Arnulfo, Can you provide some info re the rebuild kit you used? Congrats on the rebuild. Do you have the quick steering in your GS? Thanks, Tom Mooney

That's right instill fear into scenario and shake the man's confidence in a ride he's had for 22 years Replacements done properly hold well with time. No need to scare the owner into thinking he has a lesser ride due to your projections. Numbers matching still is a bunch of malarkey When a spark plug wears out you replace it when a tire tread wears you replace it when a car is driven, and the engine blows you replace it Big deal Dan, If the replacement engine was a turbo 400 application I would not have the above reservations....but it is not. My hope is, as a result of the info presented here by myself and others, that Dave doesnt go thru the frustration that I did many moons ago. Your spark plug analogy is obvious hyperbole. If viewing a potential purchase and I find it needs a set of tires, I would discount my offer by $500. If I needed to address the concerns I expressed above that would be a big deal; probably a deal breaker if I had a similar potential purchase with matching numbers. My opinion re matching numbers is not only my personal preference but is supported by what I have seen happening in the market place for decades. Dont take my word for it, review listings in Hemmings, auction descriptions, etc....there is more than enough support to recognize the link between matching numbers and value. Dave, AGAIN, if you need any help or would like a more thorough explanation of the potential issues with your `62 motor, please feel free to call me directly. Evenings are best...best of luck! Tom Mooney

This is a perfect example why matching numbers adds value. As the circumstances dictate, Dave is left wondering whether the installation of a `62 vintage motor was done properly over 22 years ago when his Riv was basically an inexpensive used car. I highly doubt that it was. Assuming a `62 engine was installed as an economical repair, the original flex plate was most likely butchered to clear the raised area of the `62 crank hub which weakens the flex plate. In addition, the nose of the `65 converter is left unsupported by the too large recess in the hub of the `62 crank which further stresses the flexplate. These issues will eventually result in a cracked flex plate. Aside from potentially needing to troubleshoot the noise coming from the lower end of the motor, the starter motor will get replaced a few times before transmission removal becomes necessary to properly inspect the flexplate due to starter drive binding/noise. A new flexplate will need to be obtained whose balance does not exactly match the original, because the Nailhead is externally balanced, and the unfortunate weekend mechanic/owner will spend the rest of his ownership and much time and money trying to cure a vibration problem which presents itself mostly at 65MPH, but not exclusively, when, in fact, the problem is an engine balance problem and not in the wheels/tires or driveline. Ask me how I know this sad scenario.....went thru it 35+ years ago as a green tech and amateur collector. Back then, info was not readily available for this type of situation. In the long run dealing with this situation was more time consuming and expensive compared to rebuilding the original engine or using the appropriate replacement. I hope Dave finds the installation was done properly! But if I was a potential buyer looking at Dave`s car, even though for me these issues are easily rectified because I have the parts and am a mechanic by trade, I would expect the worst and build a substantial discount into my best offer, all because the original and appropriate drivetrain components are not in place. After all is said and done, time is money, whether the time is my own or someone else`s. Dave, no offense to you or your car intended by my post...just making a point. If you need any help please feel free to contact me directly. My contact info is in The Riview. Best of luck! Tom Mooney

My impression is `60`s era variable ratio power steering is a gearbox whose ratio changes as the gears move off center. So, in a straight ahead position the ratio might be 17.5 to 1 and as the gears move off center to the left or right the ratio progressively changes to 12.5 to 1. This provides steering which does not have a "heavy" feeling in a straight ahead position but offers the advantages of a quicker ratio as one turns the wheels left or right. This feature reduces the number of turns lock to lock and is an asset in parallel parking moves and tight parking lots. The variable ratio is accomplished by the cut of the gears and their relationship to each other. Dont think `60`s cars had the technology to affect steering ratio based on vehicle speed. Tom Mooney

The chrome wheels were very popular in `65...and still are. Over 20%, or 1 in every 5 cars, were originally equipped with the chrome wheels. Another 15% were equipped with wire wheel covers. We dont know how many GS cars were built with the standard spinner wheel covers, but assuming the % of GS cars having optional wheels/wheel covers was the same as the standard Rivs, we can assume 6% (of total `65 production, not GS production) were built with the spinner wheel covers. Approximately 41% of `65 Riviera production had optional wheels/wheel covers. 59% left the factory with standard wheel covers. How many were altered by dealers at customer request to move inventory??? I love Saturday mornings... Tom Mooney

NO!!! ...assuming your observations are accurate. The dual quad static timing specs are in conjunction with a ported vacuum signal to the distributor vacuum advance can, unlike the standard setting which uses full time manifold vacuum. Therefore, on the dual quad setup, the engineers built the necessary idle advance into the static timing (aside from performance considerations..). If you did not change the vacuum source for the dist vacuum advance (or your distributor) from the original manifold vacuum source then your timing is unchanged. If you did change the vacuum source to the ported nipple on the rear carb then it is true that your timing has changed and is retarded relative to where it should be, but that would cause the idle speed to be reduced, not speed up. Besides, no matter where the timing is at, you should be able to reduce the idle speed by closing off air flow into the engine via the brass air bleed on the rear carb, assuming you have no vacuum leaks. You stated at the beginning of this thread that the idle speed came into compliance when you covered the front carb. The engine should NOT be breathing at all thru the front carb at a curb idle speed. Your problem is in, or has to do with, the front carb. Tom Mooney

Ed, the gray sludge you are finding in the motors is probably lead if you are referencing older motors. Dont spread it on your Jelly sandwich..... Jeff, when switching to synthetics you will probably be doing some resealing....good luck, Tom Mooney

The studs can be pounded out and in with a heavy hammer but whether you are doing the fronts or rears, be sure the impact of the hammer is not directed into the wheel or axle bearing. The fronts are easy, just pull the wheel from the car. The rear axle is a little more work. The rears can be done in the car by using a tool to press the studs out (as a tech I would rummage thru my collection of pullers, etc and find or make something that would work, assuming the tool could be made very quickly) and using a lug nut and plenty of lube, and possibly a little tapping for encouragement, to pull the new studs in. As a 40 year tech I have quite the collection of tools, pullers, etc...including oxy-acetylene at my disposal but for the typical weekend mechanic it might be best to remove the rear axle to make the job easier and faster. in any event, no need for the machine shop, unless you are afraid of the infamous hammer...good luck Tom Mooney

Hi, Matching numbers, or documentation in support of, has always carried value in collectible muscle cars. Aside from supporting originality which is often linked to rarity, matching numbers suggests the car, which was originally produced and marketed to be abused, was not, and was used for such purposes sparingly. The muscle car market has slowly accepted documentation as a substitute for actual original components because the market HAD TO. There are just too many muscle cars missing their original drivetrains. The acronym "NOM", not original motor, has become common and affects value much less than it did when the muscle car market started heating up. Having said that, and believing the run up in values of the GS Rivs has been due to their muscle car appeal, the Riviera GS, IMO, is an exception. There are so many examples which still retain their original drivetrains an NOM candidate is solidly in the minority. Assuming value or potential appreciation is a priority, I would not even consider purchasing an NOM Riviera GS unless supporting documentation, color combo, equipment or very low mileage were part of the equation. In short, in my opinion, an NOM car takes a significant hit in value. For what it`s worth.... Tom Mooney

Hi Don, Keep in mind the centers on your wheels measure 2 1/8th (except your spare). You can install the `66 thru `70 fluted centers or you will need a 2 1/8th retainer to install the original style centers. I may be mistaken but I think Cars offers both the original 2 inch and a 2 1/8th retainer for the original style caps. Good luck, Tom Mooney