carbking

What size engine??? In 1957, Buick used the Carter AFB number 2507s on the 364 CID. The 1957 AFB's (first year) were not the best AFB's Carter ever made (still head and shoulders above the modern imitation AFB's). By 1959, Carter had updated the accelerator pump check valve, and the 1959 and newer carbs were great carbs. The factory replacement carburetor for the 2507s was the Carter 2982s (1960 carb). If you have a 364 CID, that would be my suggestion. Unless you have heavily modified the engine for racing, the factory carburetor is generally the way to go. To quote a friend who posts on a different forum: "Engineers do things for a reason". Jon.

Lots of good points in this thread, especially the parking. That vehicle would take up FOUR parking places in a modern Wal-Mart parking lot!!! You might need a parking pass on the football field at college! I really like the idea of keeping Grandpa's car in the family. I have my Dad's truck. Grandpa never had a car, he believed in "single horsepower vehicles" Redo the car over time, and do it right. I think many are underestimating the cost to make a nice driver out of a vehicle that has sat that long. Tires, all fluids, all hoses, all electrical ignition components including battery, complete exhaust, probably brakes, probably front end components would need replacing. Unless known to be otherwise, the engine, transmission, final drive, etc. are probably OK. Find a beater to drive to school. Jon.

Timing could certainly be the culprit; also a sticking intake valve. One other issue (don't laugh) is gasoline with too HIGH an octane! Many enthusiasts burn the highest octane fuel they can find, when their engine has insufficient compression or timing to make use of the octane. If the carburetor is perfectly tuned, and the ignition and compression are also good, av gas, racing gas, or 93 octane pump gas could cause a surge under high vacuum conditions in a lower compression engine. Just as an example, my shop truck 10.25:1 compression with 450 HP is very happy on 87 octane pump gas except when pulling the 16 foot trailer, or being driven in anger. Under either of these conditions, 93 octane pump fuel is used. Jon.

Consider this thread closed, as I purchased a copy of the 1924-1933 manual. Jon.

Anyone have a Chrysler model 75 factory parts book that would photocopy the pages on the Penberthy/Ball & Ball model DB-20 carburetor? I would be happy to pay for the service. After 50 years, I found and bought a looks to be complete carburetor for patterns. The castings are garbage as they generally are, and will probably be dust before I get it apart, but I would like to know factory part numbers to store the parts in my samples files. I think I have been asked twice in the last 50 years, but will now be able to offer a kit if anyone has one with rebuildable castings. Thanks in advance. Jon.

The suject of clones/tribute/whatever, as mentioned by others, CAN get polarizing. One thing I have not seen in this thread is legality. In Missouri, if you were to place GTO emblems on a 1964 Tempest, and you are caught (highly unlikely except when the car is retitled) by the state, the title changes from 1964 Tempest to 2020 Homebuilt. Have fun getting the 2020 Homebuilt past inspection, and then insured! Jon.

Buick compound carburetion (factory) for the smaller Buick inline eight cylinder. Bought this at a swap meet 40 years ago when I could pick it up and carry it under one arm. 40 years later, I cannot pick it up, so will not ship. You pick it up in Eldon, Missouri (located 30 miles SW of Jefferson City on US Hwy 54). I bought it with the intention of restoring and reselling (I have specialized in multiple carb sets for 50 years), but never got around to it; so selling as is. Two of our carburetor rebuildings kits are included in the price.Unit appears to be complete, dirty, rusty, and stuck. Unit has been in inside storage (metal building, concrete floor) since I bought it. Note all fuel fittings, air cleaner, both intake AND exhaust manifolds all are included. Unit will be sold as is, inspect to your satisfaction when you arrive.Carbs are factory Stromberg (both Carter and Stromberg were used by Buick).573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time) to discuss.When you pick it up, we can accept cash, VISA, or MasterCard. Price - $850. in Eldon, Missouri.No offense, but no checks, or money orders.You will receive an invoice from The Carburetor Shop.I apologize for only one picture, but as stated above, I can no longer lift this item.Jon.

Stromberg type DD-3 used carburetor, needing rebuilding prior to use, listed on Ebay. Gears are bad, and will require replacement. To discuss, 573-392-7378 (9-12, 1-4 Mon-Tues central time). Ebay auction number - 363111051432 Jon.

"Gasoline" in the 19 teens, atomized about as well as kerosene. Many early carburetors used some form of heat to help atomized the gasoline. (1) water-jacketed carburetors (2) exhaust-jacketed carburetors (3) hot air taken off the exhaust manifold to intake to the carburetor (4) an electrical heater in the carburetor bowl to heat the gasoline. (TRUE!) As far as the Ford water heated chokes, GM used them as well on a few models in the early to mid 1960's. Virtually impossible to find one of these carburetors today that can be rebuilt without fabricating an entire new choke assembly. Jon.

Very few carburetors cross over EASILY, and still give excellent performance! I don't know (and frankly, don't care) how many e-clones are being made; however, Carter built 505 different AFB carburetors. They did not make so many different simply to spend money that would otherwise be awarded to investors, for R and D instead. And these, for the most part, do NOT cross over easily. If one has decades of experience, and a boat load of parts, they will cross over to a certain degree. Read the third line in my signature block Cliff has specialized in the Q-Jet for decades. I doubt there is anyone alive as knowledgeable about the Q-Jet as Cliff. A plug here: I have read hundreds, probably over a thousand carburetor books since 1959 when I did my first Holley carburetor. Cliff's book is absolutely at the head of the group in being "user-friendly" (one does not need an advanced degree in mathematics to use the book) to use the current vernacular; and would easily be in the top 4 or 5 for overall best. Anyone considering rebuilding a Q-Jet should first read the book. Lots of really sharp technical people are unable to convey their knowledge to others. Cliff can, and does. And to keep those interested from having to ask, "Weber Carburetors", by John Passini would be my favorite for best, but I had to dust off my college calculus books to understand it! Jon.

Check this link: Hard starting, hot engine Jon.

Adding some additional early multi-maker carburetor literature to the "for sale" section of my website; Lit_1043 - Motor Car Carburetor by the Automotive Journal 1916. 8 1/2 x 11 inches by 56 pages. Some of the red ink on the cover has bled onto some of the pages, otherwise nice. Operation and adjustment information on the following carburetors: Alco, Amplex, Bennett, Bowers, Capitaine, Chadwick, Carter, Durr, Economy, Franklin, G & A, G & C, Gaeth, Hamilton, Holley, Kingston, Locomobile, Longuemare, Maxwell, Mathewson, Mayer, Marienfelde, Peerless, Pierce-Arrow, Rayfield, S. G. V., Sleipner, Stearns, Schebler, Stromberg, Universal, and Willett. Price $200.00 Lit_1046 - 1923 Military Ignition and Carburetion training manual. 6 x 9 inches by 240 pages. Ex-library copy, excellent condition. Describing ONLY the carburetion section. Theory and service information on: Stromberg models G and M, Marvel, Cadillac (made by Johnson), Schebler H (motorcycle), Stewart (Detroit Lubricator) model 25 (Dodge), Zenith, White carbs; also Stewart vacuum tanks. Price $100.00 (This is the source for the information I posted on the White carburetor earlier). Lit_1044 - Automobile Carburetor Manual by ICS from 1938. 8 1/2 x 11 inches by 133 pages. Paperback, with rough cover. Inside pages are nice. Theory and service information on: Carter B & B, W-0, W-1, WD-0, WCD, Chandler-Groves, Detroit Lubrication (both updraft and downdraft), Marvel, ED1S, ED2S, EDS, B, AC (motorcycle), C, CD, Stromberg AA, AX, DDR, DXR, EE, U, UR, UUR, BX, Tillotson D, U, UR, DY, Zenith 20, 28, INxxx, K, CARBURETOR APPLICATION CHARTS, automatic chokes, and more. Price $150.00 Jon.

Instead of burying this in the White car thread, decided to begin a new topic. In going through carb literature to sell, I found the following information about the White carburetor: Apparently White made a two-barrel as well as the single barrel. The concept should be at least similar. Ed, I am really looking forward to the back to back test. Jon

I think we make kits for all 460 different Schebler model S carburetors. Like the Marvel they later married, very little is interchangeable from model to model, so finding the carburetor identification number is crucial to acquiring the correct kit. For single barrel carbs, the identification number is STAMPED approximately midway from top to bottom horizontally in a "boss" on the end of the carburetor OPPOSITE the air valve. For duplex (2-barrel) carbs the number is STAMPED over the "hump" in the top casting that houses the intermediate shaft. THE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER IS ALWAYS IN THE FORMAT "SX-nnn" where nnn is a one, two, or three digit number from 1 to 460. An example I remember SX-389 is the duplex used on the Duesenberg J. Another one often seen is the SX-7, which was a universal replacement carb, although why anyone would wish to put a Schebler S on something it did not come on is beyond comprehension! THE CAST (RAISED) SV NUMBERS ARE TOTALLY MEANINGLESS! Jon

Sometime when you are conversing with Cliff, ask him about the dyno test of his Pontiac 455? It was tested with a Q-Jet, and got some really nice figures. Then the operator made a comment to the effect "let's see what this engine will do with a REAL carburetor" and dropped on an 880 Holley. Lost several pounds-feet, and a few ponies. Operator was flabergasted! The Q-Jet is in my top three of street carburetors. Jon.

You might try a bit of valve lapping compound and lap the fuel needle and the seat GENTLY to remove any varnish, burr, corrosion, etc.; then wash both components in gasoline. If this does not work, then you might put in a new fuel valve and seat. As far as a neoprene tip, I have not figured out how to incorporate a neoprene tip on this design because of the leading position pin required to center the tip in the seat. The carb should NOT leak while running, but may when the engine is shut off. Jon.

Carb came today, and as pictured and described. As promised on the identification: It is a Zenith type O5D (model Ooh, size 5, duplex). Impossible to tell exact application, but these were used on a number of cars one rarely sees. Those that I have heard of: Abbott, Daniels, Douglas, and Murray. Jon

Mike - without pulling a print, I don't know the venturi size of either. Either, with the proper venturi, would work well on the truck. Each has probably 5 or so different venturii. When we were still building carbs, we would just start with the correct housing, and machine the necessary internal parts; sounds expensive, but really less so than trying to find exactly the correct calibration in a used carburetor. From a pot-luck standpoint, an unknown M-1 has a better chance of having a reasonably correct venturi and corresponding jets than the T-4, as a large percentage of the M-1's were used on engines in the 220~240 CID range, where the majority of the T-4's were used on engines in the 170~180 CID range. Jon

The first issue is understanding the issue! The symptoms mentioned by the OP in post 1 are NOT a result of vapor lock, rather exactly the opposite (too much pressure)! http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Troubleshooting.htm#Hardstarthot The above link describes what happens when the engine is turned off. The same thing happens when the engine sits for a period of time idling, except that fuel both "puddles" in the intake manifold, and also vapors fill the air cleaner. The insulation provided by the OP proves the issue, as the insulation made the effect significantly better. Under these conditions, if an automatic transmission, place the transmission in park toward the end of the light, and rev the engine to 1500~1800 RPM for maybe 5 seconds. This will clear the puddling and air cleaner vapor issue, and the car will run normally. This is NOT a function of old cars only. Daily drivers from the 1970's and 1980's which I have had exhibited exactly the same symptoms, although most of mine were standard transmission, so easy just to rev the engine in neutral. Personal experience is how I learned the issue, and how to bypass the issue. Also, it happens with non-ethanol fuel. The electric pump will help a cold start, but not the hot start, or the stalling from a light. Jon

Mike - in the for what its worth category, checking both the factory Zenith and Stromberg records: Zenith - no record of a sale to Republic for the 11X; no record of a T-4 sold to Continental for the model N engine. Stromberg - sold the M-1 to Republic for use on the 11X Of course, these records are 100 years old The Stromberg M-1 is much more common than the Zenith T-4 (you have to complete with the motorcycle dudes for the T-4), and parts also are much more common. Jon.

Clifford - according to the information in my database, the 1919 Commerce used a Continental engine of 221 CID, and a Zenith type O-4 carburetor. The O-4 is fairly easy to find; but figure on an expensive rebuild. The reason being that 99 percent of the O-4 Zeniths that you find will be calibrated for a Chevrolet with a 171 CID engine. The main venturi and all of the jets will have to be replaced, and these do not grow on trees. Jon.

Mike - a bit more investigation seems to be indicated. Pontiac 6 cylinder engines were a single barrel 2 bolt through 1952. In 1953, the Pontiac 6 used a WCD 4-bolt. Pontiac 8 cylinders from 1947 and newer were 4 bolt. Jon.

Gary - one other item; the jets in the EX-23 or EX-32 DIFFER from those in the EE-1 (97). The thread on the main metering jets for both the EX-23 and EX-32 (P-17004) are a 7/16 inch thread, while those for the EE-1 (97) (P-19442) are 3/8 inch. Also, the power jets not only are a different thread, but also a different configuration. Padgett - both the Chevrolet W-1 and the Plymouth Ball & Ball have 1 1/4 inch venturii. The Ball & Ball has a larger air intake and a larger throttle bore. Bigger carb, less efficient. Jon.

Gary - I must have missed something somewhere. In one post you mention (4) Stromberg EX-23 carbs, and in the post above this one (4) Stromberg EX-32 carbs??? Are we talking two different engines? The EX-23 is significantly smaller than the EX-32. Jon.

I would suggest the original carburetor for the Buick 263 engine. In various years in the early 1950's, a number of different Carters and Strombergs were used. If you are speaking of the hand throttle, these pretty much disappeared from all passenger makes after WWII. If one really wants to hook up a hand throttle, pretty easy to modify any carburetor to accept one. Jon.