NTX5467

Did the anti-seize take the squeak out? Seems like all of the thread torque specs I've seen have mentioned "lightly-lubed threads", with motor oil? Ever feel the heat in the wheel stud where the nut came off slowly with an impact? Or the heat in a lug nut that is too hot to hold? NTX5467

The A6 compressors were famous for their oil trails on the underside of hoods (and hood pads). I always found that curious as none of our other-brand of cars did that. Seems like a newer version of that seal does not leave the trail? In 1971 or so, Buick had a metal shield that went over the pulley/belt to catch the oil being slung out before it got to the hood. Something like that could be fabbed, if desired. Bolts to the existing holes on the front flange. Might take a bit more with an A5, though. NTX5467

NOW we know why the engine was in the trunk, apart. As I recall, at about 65K, IF the engine had not gotten the best of care (as to timely oil changes and such), that's when the bearing issues started to appear. As prevalent as that engine was back then, many auto supplies kept the crank kit (crank and bearings) in stock. At least in the larger areas. It was always the middle main bearing where the problems were. For the reasons I mentioned above. So the engine got removed, torn down, then "archived" when the wear issues were known. Being where you are located, that was probably the easiest thing to do. Balancing? Not if the pistons are still the stock pistons and the casting numbers on the cranks match. Aftermarket pistons are usually a little heavier than the stock pistons, so that is when balancing is recommended. Which is one advantage to using OEM parts rather than aftermarket. GM pistons were the same weight from std size to +.030" over-size. But the OEM pistons were like $60.00/each compared to $15.00 for the good aftermarket ones. As to shipping, IF you want anything heavy shipped individually, I have no doubt the shipping charges can be what you mention. IF you can find a "freight consolidator", they can add it to an existing container they have coming your way, which might result in lower shipping costs. There are a lot of USA cars in EU. Networking with some of them might yield a better way to get something like a crankshaft shipped to EU. A Chrysler group might be contacted via www.bbtr.de . Plus various USA-brand and mixed-brand car clubs, too. Hopefully, somebody might have a connection. Thanks for the additional information, NTX5467

You're right, now that I think about it.

In the states, 15W-40 was the dino oil for things like GM Duramax diesel pickup trucks. That viscosity was specific to diesels only. When syn oils for the diesels came out, they were 5W-40 instead. Another diesel-specific viscosity. As things have progressed, 15W-40 can be had in syn, too. As 5W-40 oils have other non-diesel applications in cars and the current SP ratings. THEN came "Rotella Gas Truck" oil which is for pickup trucks with gas engines. Same oil specs, as to zddp, as "car oils", from the analysis I have seen posted at www.bobistheoilguy.com . NTX5467

"Happy Endings" getting better! NTX5467

The 3800 should be an "even-fire" with off-set rod journals. The 231 has normal rod journals. It is possible to rebuild the journals by welding new material onto them, then machining them to the desired size. I don't know how expensive it might be to do that, compared to what a new GM crank might cost. OR a reman engine, for that matter. One thing I've noticed about Jasper kits is that they come with everything you'd need to change the motor. Belts, hoses, and such. WITH a higher pricetag, too. They also have a chain of approved shops to do the engine changes, too, which gives them the confidence to have the warranty coverage they do. I did a Google search and came up with a good many possibilities. A few crankshaft "kits" (re-ground stock cranks with new matching size bearings) for about $350.00 + 150.00 core charge. Close to the price of a new SCAT stroker crank. You need a cranks with the same stroke as you now have. The interesting item was a new GM Crank on Amazon for less than $200.00. Of course, you'll need to get new bearings with that one, but it had a current GM part number so it might be that your machine shop operative could get that one and bearings for a good price. Knowing these things, the question is "What kind of condition is the rest of the motor in? How many miles and such?" IF you plan on keeping the car for 5+ years, it might be best to find a quality reman motor and fix a lot of other things in the process, too. You can probably find a nearby Jasper installer shop near you via their website. Then contact them to see what the turn-key price would be, plus any additional price for the worn crankshaft. I would advise against a salvage yard motor as anything you find there, for your model year, can very well be in worse shape than the one you have now. Plus it will probably have been "sitting there" for years, which can cause issues because of that, too. Which means anything you might buy will be as a "buildable core", but given the track record of those engines, you would be spending money for another engine that needs to be rebuilt, at best. Do the Google search for "Buick 1980 231 V-6 Crankshaft" and see what comes up. If that GM Parts crank is what it's supposed to be, that would be the best choice and put some OEM quality bearings with it in the correct size (which means verify the size of the journals before getting the bearings). Then a reman crank from a quality crank grinder company with the bearings, buying it out-right with no core. Or a new crank of the correct stroke via Summit Racing (which was one of the items from the search). eBay vendors? I respectfully advise to not go there as you never really know what you will be getting, sometimes. Use that as a last resort of sorts. Hope this might help, NTX5467

$8200.00 at 10:55pm CDST 03-21-2024. Car looks great!

Since this thread started, MUCH has changed in the world of motor oil. Mr. Lake Speed, Jr. has mentioned the different type of zddp and their uses. Something to do with how soon they activate? I respect his tribologist certification, yet I have not heard of different types of zddp in the www.bobistheoilguy.com forums in the decades I've been checking the "Virgin Oil Analysis" forums there. I also consider him a "somewhat interested" person as he was employed by a motor oil company which brought out a particular line of oils. So I take what he says as "good information to be further verified". In looking at some of the older oil analysis tests online, it appears that the presumption that all oils of prior times had lots of zddp in them is not completely accurate, in all cases. The amounts could vary by brand. In those earlier times, the detergency of the oil was deemed to be more important. "Long chain" Pennsylvania crude oil was supposed to be better than other crude oils, as to "protection", but past that, it was the additive package that made things work. In the later 1960s, as chemistry progressed, wider-range viscosity oils appeared. 10W-40s and 20W-50s appeared in several brands. The higher-viscosity multi-grades were termed "Super Oils" for their advanced chemistry. Nobody cared if the "50" meant more horserpower was needed to run the oil pump, back then. In the 1980s, a mechanic shop we sold GM parts to called up and wanted a crank for a '75 Pontiac 400 V8. Seems it had about 60K miles and a loud main bearing knock. The owner changed the oil to 20W-50 and added 2 cans of STP to the oil to thicken it and hopefully quieten things down. Well, with the thick oil, things got louder. In looking at engine clearances, the typical piston skirt clearances on modern engines are not very different from 1960s engines. Same with crankshaft bearings. EACH has a clearance based on the size of the piston or bearing journal. Nothing "tightened up" on modern engines, as might be suspected. What HAS changed is the cylinder honing procedures, width of the piston rings, and everything now has "coated" piston skirts. Much of this is about taking friction out of the motor, which means more horsepower can get to the flywheel. Lighter viscosity oils are about taking less power to run the oil pump PLUS getting oil "to pressure" and "where it needs to be", about 40% sooner on a cold start. Plus less power to run the oil pump. More power and better fuel economy can result. Quicker-acting VVT and cyl deactivation activities are probably expedited, too. On the older motors, the oil pump and oil pickup tube/screen were very close to each other. Oil pressure happened very quickly with a straight-weight "30" motor oil. On almost every modern design, the screen/pickup is at the rear of the motor and the oil pump is on the nose of the crankshaft, almost 2 feet away! GOT to have quick-flowiing oil for decent longevity! BGack to the zddp issue . . . ONE thing to also consider is that in the 1960s, normal oil change intervals were 3000miles, until Ford lengthened theirs to 6000 miles. Chrysler had their engines set at 4000 miles. In times before we knew about zddp. Basestocks of oils were not as good then as now, obviously. Drag racers usually changed their oil sooner, anyway, to keep the engines lasting a good while. So the BRAND of oil was important for any kind of high-performance use. Plus camshafts with higher lift and higher spring pressures were more aftermarket than OEM prior to about 1962. In those days, the average customer had brand preferences, for whatever reason. One criteria had to do with how "clean" the engine was when valve cover gaskets had to be replaced and such. "Cleaner" was better, then as now. Valvoline had been sponsoring drag racing events for years, back then. I came to notice that many "old-time" hot rodders and such generally used Valvoline motor oil. I realized this in the 1980s. In some of the forum postings/discussions of zddp levels in www.bobistheoilguy.com forums, just adding zddp to any formulation is not always the best answer. The additional zddp, past a certain point, degrades the detergency additives in the oil. Certainly, some oils designed for NASCAR racing had 3000ppm zddp in them, but they were also not recommended for street use. Those engines got an oil change every 500 miles or so anyway, so detergency was not an issue. More is not better. API "SL" oils had 1000ppm of zddp in them. The later "SM" oils were down to 800ppm zddp or less. The more recent "SP" oils are up to 900ppm zddp, plus a testing wear spec related to the wear on timing chain pins. Plus a different balance of calcium and others to allow the zddp to work better (according to Mr. Speed, Jr.) at the lower concentrations. Zddp is usually talked about with respect to cam lobe wear, but it also related to engine bearing wear, too. In normal use, every one of the vintage engine designs were designed to use a "30" viscosity oil in 70 degree F ambient temperatures, down to 32 degrees F in colder times. Colder than that? 20W and even 10W oils. The common multi-weight in the 1960s was 10W-30. Many allegedly ended up as 10W-20 after 1000+ miles, but they still worked well. 10W-40 happened with the elevated operating temperatures of 1970s emission-controlled engines. 20W-50 was there for additional protection in more severe operating situations. The current Valvoline VR-1 oils, in any viscosity, are stated to have 1400ppm zddp in them, per Valvoline's product literature. Same with the Amsoil Z-Rod oil, which is synthetic. Castrol has a "GTX Classic" motor oil with similar zddp amounts ("Classic" is prominent on the bottle!). Used to be that the 1000ppm zddp was the "low standard", but testing by GM indicated that the "SM" oil would work in their high-performance ZZ430 big block engines, per the installation instructions. Which means that the engine had been "fire tested" before it left the engine plant and "run-in" for 30 minutes in a dyno cell. These things tend to follow my suspicion that current "SP" oils with their decreased calcium content (due to issues in modern turbo 4-cyl engines and high-calcium oils), at about 900ppm zddp, can be fine with many older engines. AFTER the cam is fully broken-in if changed. As mentioned, this subject can have as many answers as there can be the number of people answering them. Still going well past when the cows have gone to sleep. Do your best research and act accordingly. The back of the Mobil 1 website has a chart of the zddp level in each of their motor oiol products. Kind of hard to find, but it's there AND current. Valvoline also had information in their Product Data Sheets, on their website. Other brands can be similar, but not always. Remember, too, that it is the OEMs and "current production vehicles" which the oil manufacturers have to be concerned about rather than just a small segment of the total market. BTAIM Otherwise, the www.bobistheoilguy.com forums or PQIA forums can be two great sources where oil analysis is done and results posted. Whatever works! NTX5467

California had "retro-fit kits" for cars registered and residing in CA back then. Until the manufacturers started selling "CA Emissions" vehicles in the middle 1960s. MIGHT have been some chrome air cleaners for the 2x4bbl cars? Otherwise, silver/aluminum paint. Some did not like the open breathers as they could put oil drops on the area under them (valve covers). Which might be what a prior owner had done? It is much easier to find chrome items for Chevrolet motors than for any other GM brand of engine. Just the way it always has been. NTX5467

(Is that where the "BOOM BOOM BOOM" in the floorboards is coming from?)

Chrome valve covers can be hard to find. Few places do chroming any more, other than somebody related to the Harley-Davidson vehicles. It can be very expensive and quality can vary. There were some finned, cast aluminum factory and aftermarket valve covers, though. Neither will be inexpensive. When you get the covers off, you'll need to get them cleaned up. Paint first with a satin black, then with some quality chrome paint. Might not be exactly like "chrome", but more understated in appearance. PLUS not much money! Enjoy! NTX5467

Thanks for the update. The crank will probably make a .010/.010 undersize on that one journal. Might probably do the rest of them, too. Used to, many machine shops kept a Buick 3.8L 10-10 crank kit in stock for this situation. When you get things back together, in the new oil, add a "cleaner" additive to thie new oil. It was common for the center main to have issues after about 70K miles, back then. Seems that when they machined the as-cast main oil galley, Buick used two shorter drill bits, one from the front and one from the rear, to finish-size the galleys. They did NOT touch in the middle, so the middle main's part of the galley did not get the same volume of oil as the other mains. In one respect, one main needs less oil that more do, but that's a good theory. The old Buick Performance hand book said the FIRST thing to do to a Buick V-6 block is drill the main galley all the way through, with a LONG drill bit (as other brands use). In any event, modern oils are better than the older ones, generally. It'll be fine when it's all back together. Just some thoughts and observations, NTX5467

NO need for a P235/75R-15 tire on that 4000lb car. PERIOD. Even a P225/75R-15 tire can be too large/tall, too. If you want something a little bit wider, aim toward a P225/70R-15, which should be the same revs/mile as a P215/75R-15 tire. Even in whitewalls, in some brands. NTX5467

Check www.tech-retro.com Aurora Designs. Several options, plus a "Find a Dealer" that might be near you. The original person I heard of was Gary Tayman, who happens to be in the FL area. NTX5467

For THIS use, the main issue with either brake fluid or ATF is the light viscosity index for the fluid. In that respect, you can probably use any ATF, just that Dexron-family fluids are probably the most common and easily-available. Ford invented Type F fluid for THEIR automatics, although it was also a hot rod trick to get just a bit firmer shifts. Later on, their Mercon IV fluid is equivalent of Dex III. Of course, they all mix together with no issues. Even the Dex III fluid is friction-modified for use in lock-up torque converter transmissions, which does not really matter in a convertible top pump and cylinders. I might caution against power steering fluid as many of them seem to be a bit waxy when compared to the "clear and transparent", though red-tinted, ATF. IF you wanted to, you could also go all the way to current GM-use synthetic ATF, or even some of the Mobil 1 LV ATFs, FOR A PRICE. This would be very serious over-kill, though. Not unlike paying $100.00 for a fluid kit and two filters to service the hydro-static transmissions in a zero-turn lawn mower (when one website said to use Castrol 20W-50 plain motor oil and the filters look like FL-1A Motorcraft filters, which might cost $35.00 if bought at the auto supply). Just some thoughts, NTX5467

@arnulfo de l.a., getting the block line honed and then decked with torque plates should put that part of the situation at "blueprint specs", I suspect, or close to it. Which can serve to raise the compression ratio to more like the stated specification. CC-ing the cyl heads will finish out that situation. By the time the 455 came out, everybody was in full emissions-compliance mode, which meant "lower performance" engines resulted. Did NOT affect durability, but DID affect fuel economy a bunch. With the 455 replacing the higher-CR 430 in the line-up. So I don't know that anybody really understood why the 455 acted as it tended to do, being thirsty and such. According to Vizard's videos on ignition timing and combustion processes AFTER the spark, there is a sweet spot as to piston diameter when considering "burn time" of the mixture. Which can mean a smaller bore and longer stroke can result in more power than a larger bore and shorter stroke, with the same CID? DO pay attention to the oiling system, as Buick V-8 can tend to be a bit persnickity in that area. A high volume pump can be used, but NOT with the higher pressure spring. Paying attention to "details" of the build which are UNIQUE to Buick V-8s, no matter the model year, is important and can enhance ultimate durability. Take care and keep us posted on your progress, NTX5467

Since the time all of these messages were done, I discovered the "Cam Group" of videos which David Vizard did on cam card specs and lobe center spreads. His "128 formula" is of particular interest. As it turns out, it was independently verified by a YouTuber "Cattledog Garage", all by himself, without knowing about DV's formula before he did his verification. Seems that CDG is a 3rd generation engine machinist and builder, with his grandfather working for a GM division as his main job. CDG does his videos driving around the Washington State area where he lives, in a Chevy flatbed pickup with a Chevy 383 he built, which also runs sub-14 second 1/4 miles. He posts several dyno runs he did, plus those of another builder, to show the affects of lobe centerline on power and torque output. Then talks about them. The Vizard 128 Formula is about "giving the engine what it wants" for best power. The "128" is for small block Chevy engines, with another value for other brands and types of engines. Now, DV is unique in that he could call his contact at a major cam company and get access to this person, which normal customers cannot do. He usually ordered special-ground cams, knowing the engineering behind each one, using the Master Catalog's Lobe Profile List to choose the ones he wanted. In other words, he could look at the numbers for the profile and know if it was what he wanted or did not want. He was more focused on building race motors rather than otherwise, too. I highly recommend y'all watching his "Cam Group" videos and also the two from CattleDog Garage. They all compliment each other! Enjoy! NTX5467

I fully remember the early "search engine days" with slower processors, so the ORDER of the defining items really mattered as to how quickly the search terminated. As mentioned, putting the model year first, then the brand of car, then the model (etc.) really mattered as to what criteria was looked at first, second, etc. In many cases, still does. Many times, I'll start with Google and then move forward to eBay, staying away from Amazon. There are some really good eBay vendors! With eBay as an expansion of their other online website/store. Finding them can be the trick, though. Whatever works! NTX5467

If you sell the car, what will you replace it with?

Most OEM electric fuel pumps have a different oil pressure sending unit to ground the pump. Pump does not start until oil pressure happens. Same if oil pressure is lost, no fuel to the engine. At least that's how it's supposed to work. With light-viscosity oils, "dry starts" are more prevalent than might be suspected. NOT to forget that many oil pumps are NOT in the oil pans any more, too. Most are on the nose of the crankshaft with the pickup screen in a rear-sump pan. Even on the popular Chevy LS-family motors How many of those motors do you hear about with main bearing wear too soon? Then after getting oil to the oil pump, it still has to go through the oil filter element, and THEN into the oil galleys. NO anti-drainback valves in the "bare element" oil filter mechanisms! Piston skirts are now usually coated with a "wear interface", so no "galling" of past times per se. ALL of this makes modern-design motors "time bombs" ready to start ticking (not from dry hydraulic lifters), compared to the 1950s-1980s designs. There used to be an oil additive, ProLong, that kept all of the oil from draining off of internal engine parts. It worked, but in the 1980s, it was not needed unless the engine lost its oil pressure. It was a clear liquid, not a viscosity improver as STP was. Enjoy! NTX5467

Have to ALSO remember that many non-city areas of the country did NOT have electric service back then. Or even into the 1930s before the Rural Electrification Act happened. Which relegated electrics to be "city cars". NTX5467

The first electric motor in a GM automatic transmission was also developed with BMW as one of the developers. In electric mode, the transmissions had a metallic gear whine to them. Not exactly a "luxury" experience, to me. It was a "slice" that could be inserted into the existing multi-piece automatic transmission case. A pretty neat concept. NTX5467

Might be overkill, but GM/Chevy Perf Parts used to sell an inline electric fuel pump. Was the lift pump for the 6.2L Diesels, repurposed for gasoline. Looks like a GF481 fuel filter with wires coming out of it. Had a mounting strap that can go around it. No noise. About 7psi, as I recall. How noisy are the 3.5psi booster pumps? Might some rubber mounts quiet them. Yes, I remember how much sound the old "block-shaped" electric fuel pumps made, but usually the engine and exhaust over-rode them. Just a part of having a "hot rod". NTX5467

Thanks for the update. I find the comment about "too heavy" a bit amusing. Considering that a Hummer EV weighs 9000lbs and the Tesla Cybertruck is 7000lbs (with the main difference between their weights being the battery pack and related voltages used), the Riv is a "light-weight" by comparison. BUT as battery tech moves toward the upgraded solid-state batteries, that could decrease the weight markedly. Which would make the EV conversion more viable as to cost and using vintage cars rather than purpose-designed EVs. By that time, too, the charging network infrastructure should be expanded. Which when combined with the newer battery tech, would make EVs a much more viable alternative in the future. At the present time, there is a late 1990s Chevy S-10 EV on YouTube. Chevy built those pickups in limited production runs for municipal fleet customers at the Shreveport, LA plant. Using the normal vehicle with an EV drivetrain, using the pickup truck's bed for battery space. Might check it out and see how much things have progressed from then. Perhaps, as production of the new Dodge Chargers progresses, I suspect there will be some coverage of the differences between the EVs and ICE-powered versions of them. That might provide some guidance of how to move forward with your desires. With 121" wheelbases and being about 206" long, they are not as small as the vehicles they replace. Plus heavier at 5800lbs or so. Seeing how they accomplished these things will be interesting! Take care, NTX5467