wayne sheldon

oldcarfudd mentioned Jim Boyden and his unrestored 1913. I have known Jim for more than fifty years, past president of the HCCA, and all-around great Horseless Carriage and Model T guy! He drives his Oakland a lot!

Maybe I can give a push to help get things rolling? Just a model T Ford, but definitely quirky. Picture has been on dozens of websites for many years, so I have no idea who to thank for it.

The past three days or so, everything is different. As soon as I sign in, I get some weird navigation menu on my right side of my screen instead of the long yet easy to follow menus on most of the screen. I have to continuously check and uncheck boxes instead of simply clicking into the section I want. I have to be careful how I uncheck some boxes. If I begin by looking at a main heading, then go to a subheading (like in the For Sale areas?)? I have to uncheck the main heading (which delays my computer because it wants to load a whole huge something I don't want and didn't ask for?) first, then check for the subheading. If I first check the subheading, and THEN uncheck the main heading? That uncheck unchecks BOTH! The entire navigation process is awkward and difficult. The list of boxes to constantly check and uncheck is long and not as easy to follow as the same list was before. Before, I knew where to look, clicked in, back clicked out. I got where I wanted quickly and easily. Now? Not so much. I have watched for three days now looking for comments? And seen none? Has the site changed? Was my computer hacked? Or is it one of those automatic updates I dislike so much but am forced to accept?

Certain areas of electronics like RF (Radio Frequency) and specialty power systems are the same way. I worked around that stuff most of my life. And, I know electrical power better than most people do. I have a pretty good idea of what levels of power can hurt one? Or even KILL! And what might bite, but is actually harmless. I have been shocked so many times, in so many ways, that I hardly even react as long as I know the levels are safe. I have actually checked automotive ignition by touching the top of spark plugs while the engine is running! Bull sessions in parking lots have brought that up several times, and I will do it just to prove that I will do so! So I often turn the joke around on the jokers. Someone will tell me to "touch this" and I knowing what it is will grab it before they can stop me! Every rule has exceptions. If you rely on a pacemaker to keep you alive? DO NOT play such games. Some things I am willing to touch can cause a pacemaker to fail instantly. And a silly observation. People like me? People that have spent a lot of time around RF and specialized power systems? Used to often spot one another in crowds by their walking around with one hand in a pocket. If you are often at risk of touching potentially dangerous voltages? You don't want the current to go straight across your chest to the other hand leaning on something grounded. Better to discharge through your side or your feet, or even some part of your arm before the current can reach your chest. Keeping one hand in a pocket is a habit one learns quickly when working in certain environments. Of course there are other reasons to keep a hand in one's pocket. But it is funny how often as an outside contractor going into a facility, I have had people there look at me and comment about "I can see you have been around power systems enough, one hand is in your pocket!" The RF crowd is especially fun! The favorite prank pulled thousands of times is to chat about stray RF accumulating on objects and in people (that actually does happen, and can result in static charges, but the levels are basically never dangerous). Once one has become acclimated (the story goes), it is safe, but until that time, precautions must be taken. One must carry a grounding chain that drags upon the floor for safety. Of course the only extra chain available is a bit too short. So the outsider/newbie has to stoop over to drag the chain around. I grew up around this stuff, so the prank never worked on me. But I have seen it pulled on others a couple times.

Good spotting! I hadn't looked that close, but you are absolutely correct! If it were my car, I would put it back to working like original with a functioning vacuum tank. Maybe I am nuts. But I think the working vacuum tank is just another small detail in the antique automobile experience. I like hearing and feeling the engine lope for a moment while the vacuum pump pulls fuel from the gasoline tank. The air that sucks fuel into the vacuum tank then goes into the intake manifold for a second or two and alters the fuel to air mixture slightly. I also don't care for electric pumps pushing though the vacuum tank. It is just another spot that could cause serious problems if a thin rust spot in the outer tank were to break loose and begin spraying gasoline all over the engine compartment while one is driving. There is a big difference between a drip from a pinhole that opens up (been there, done that, fixed it), and that same pinhole with six to eight psi mechanical pressure behind it! Some people over the years have plumbed straight though the vacuum tank just for looks (tricky to do right). But that does not appear to be the case here. Especially not if priming into the tank enabled the car to run.

Supposedly, it should be able to do so. Original era literature says to do it. That same original era literature also expressly states that the throttle should be fully closed to maximize vacuum pressure and draw the fuel from the gasoline tank quickly. I have done this a few times when the car has sat long enough for the gasoline to vanish. It has worked when I did so. I not only closed the throttle, I closed the choke as well figuring the car needed to be choked after sitting for a month or two. Starter cranked the car for about fifteen seconds, then paused to allow the fuel in the upper chamber to drain into the lower chamber and carburetor, opened the throttle and started the car as usual. It worked. HOWEVER, I do not like to abuse my starter. I don't want to suddenly need to rebuild it if it became necessary. So, if my car has sat for more than a week or two (depending on the car's past performance with evaporation?), I use a small funnel and a quart container of gasoline to prime the vacuum tank myself. Unless I am already running late. Definitely, if it doesn't have one? Put a good shutoff valve between the vacuum tank and carburetor. I make a habit of shutting off the gasoline every time I park the car for more than an hour. You can still buy good brass ones at most common hardware stores. I bought one for my current restoration project just last year from the local True Value ( $20! I need to look for more original ones the next time I can get to a swap meet!). It still looks enough like the original era ones to not be offensive to me (and I am borderline nuts that way!). Yeah I can see several details not quite right, but overall, it looks okay. (J B Weld and a dab of paint can hide some of those minor details!) Gasoline should ALWAYS be shut off when the car is parked indoors! Even carburetors that have never leaked can suddenly do so for the first time.

Someone really should try to save and restore that.

Appears to be a child's hearse. They were actually fairly common back in the days before medical sciences eliminated a lot of childhood diseases. Even in the early 1900s, about one in four children died before the age of ten. It was one reason that many families had so many children in those days. While standard adult hearses were usually painted black, many child's hearses were painted white. I don't recognize the vehicle's marque. It could possibly be an Overland, but I doubt that. Many child's hearses were built on standard chassis, but some were built by specialty companies. Sayers and Scoville built some. Many years ago, I had one of the very few surviving Sayers automobiles. They made an attempt to enter the midrange automobile market between 1919 and 1922. This radiator is different than the Sayers I had, but the fenders and headlamps look the same.

Thank you for the sales report D Dave! The thing about those headlights is legendary, and been around a long time! However, the Pierce Arrow Society has said that extensive research has found NO such law ever existed in either the city or state of New York. Apparently it was simply an option for any customer that may have been bothered in any way by the unusual headlamps that Pierce Arrow was famous for. One must wonder how that tale ever got started? 8E45E snuck in ahead of me! I hate getting interrupted while typing.

I have often said that I would rather have the worst car on a club tour than have the nicest car sitting in my garage! Over the years, I have "restored" about a dozen cars for my own use. None of them were anywhere near being a show car. And a few of them, I never finished the restoration as I had hoped to. But most of them, I did enjoy driving both on club activities as well as on my own. A couple of my "restorations" were fairly nice. A few were not great at all. In fact, I probably qualify to be one of Ed (sometimes in Mass) M's "tractor mechanics"! A fact I actually take a bit of pride in. But I know what corners to cut, and which ones not to. And every antique car I have worked on left me in better shape than it was in when I got it. Several of them probably would not have been restored by anyone else, given their extremely poor condition when I started working on them. A few I was told were beyond being restored when I got them. I used to like to tell people that some of those cars "sure drove nice on the recent club tour!" I hope to be able to say that again soon about my 1915 T runabout. I like fixing original stuff that other people cannot repair or use. Whether it is original, or been redone, I like the upholstery to be fairly nice. I don't really want something that is falling apart inside. I don't need really nice paint. In fact, several of the cars I most enjoyed had terrible paintwork. I do want my car to look decent enough that I can park it next to the finest car on almost any tour I attend, and I won't feel ashamed of it. One of the model T boat-tail roadsters I restored, I parked next to a good friends very nice 1927 Rolls Royce on a club picnic. They looked great together, and a few people said so. To me? The "perfect car" is one that is nice enough (from twenty feet away) to look good next to the best car around, but have enough flaws that I can set a picnic basket on the front fender and not worry about adding another scratch.

Somewhere I have a couple such drill bits! They sometimes work great for removing broken bolts out of blind threaded holes. Between the heat generated, the vibration, and the reverse direction, quite often a broken bolt being drilled that way will simply spin its way out of the hole. I got graduated sizes so I could drill a small hole first, then step up a couple times to larger sizes, all turning in reverse. Easy-outs usually try to expand the bolt as turning pressure is applied. Quite often that expansion just locks the bolt remains into the hole even tighter.

I like that Pierce Arrow. Even if it doesn't have the Pierce trademark headlamps. I knew I had seen one for sale somewhere recently that looked just like that one, so I did a quick search through a few possible sites and found it on the HCCA online classified site. The problem is that the classified ad indicates the car to be in North Carolina? The ad says to contact Stewart Laidlaw, a well known hobbyist and professional restorer in the Horseless Carriage community. He had lived in California for many years, and belonged to the Horseless Carriage Regional Group I belong to. I knew him somewhat, and he moved back East about ten to twelve years ago. So, I find myself wondering if this is in fact the same Pierce arrow? Anymore info about the car?

Off the top of my head, I think that is an Overland, and about a 1916. History always needs to be considered in the context of its time! Open body cars were the norm from the beginning, and enclosed body styles did not reach fifty percent of sales until 1925 if I recall correctly. In many regions of the country, including the PNW, horses and carriages continued to be fairly common well into the 1920s. When you consider the earlier alternatives, an open roadster was a major step up with a more full body, side curtains, and higher speeds meaning you get to your destination and inside faster! People in those days KNEW how far the world had come in a couple decades, and truly appreciated what hey had available to them. Home heating wasn't nearly as efficient, while air conditioning, and insulation, were still not common at all. Even in colder regions of the country, keeping a couple rooms in the home warmed up much above sixty degrees was considered very comfortable! Most people then wore warmer clothing all year around than people do today. They were used to dealing with the winter's cold.

And THIS is why so many people are confused about what to call so many cars! Ninety-nine percent of all cars ever manufactured fit just fine into common body style definitions. A few small production marketing ploys and wild customs make up that other one percent. Some crossover terms like "coach" ("two-door sedans"), and the various offshoots of "coupes" (which sometimes include two-door sedans?) create some issues for quite a lot of cars, but are generally not seriously a problem. Marketing anomalies like these give credibility to misnamed cars, and those that misname them. I wish we could get people to stop calling a 1910s or 1920s "touring car" a "sedan", just because it has a front seat and a back seat. There is such a thing as a "touring sedan", but other than a few rarities in earlier years, they came about a bit later (mid 1930s).

Because it didn't want to "ford" the stream?

Be careful my friend! Those White's need you!

Walt G, I remember a lot of cars (and White trucks!) years ago that had those Westinghouse air shocks on them. A good friend had a 1921 Hudson Speedster (official marketing name for a sleek four passenger touring car), another well known fellow had a 1912 Pierce Arrow roadster (now re-restored in a large private collection) that was driven a lot! I remember a Lincoln or two (seemed unusual?) and a few Cadillacs. In recent years, one just doesn't seem to see them very often, even in published photographs. I spent some several minutes last night looking closely at the photos of this Cadillac in the for sale section! Yes it would be a major undertaking restoration-wise, but it really does not look all that bad either. I really like that style! If I didn't already have four very worthwhile or necessary restorations ahead of me already, I would be be thinking foolish thoughts about it. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/376942-1919-cadillac-victoria-coupe-20k/#comment-2353211 I think the price is too high in today's market, given the car's condition. However, maybe?

Wow George A! Although they are a bit more modern than my real interests in automobiles, I have always been a bit enamored with both the Skylark and Hollywood cars. And that one is a beauty!

I love happy endings! Thank you for sharing this.

I doubt that many Hupps or Grahams were sacrificed to save Cords. From the numbers shared above, it appears there were more Cords manufactured than Hupps and Grahams combined. Although a good percentage of Cords were unusual variations or convertibles which virtually none of the Hupps and Grahams were. Not much on the Grahams and Hupps beyond the basic body panels themselves were the same as what was on the Cords. I understand nearly everything for the interior, floor pans due to drive line, hood and front end are totally different than is the Cord. I seem to recall reading some years ago that even the door mounting and mechanisms were different? But I could be wrong about that? Graham and Hupp bodies could have donated some body panels and structures to the restoration of Cord automobiles. But that would have mostly been to the more common and less desirable of the Cords (which as far as I am concerned are very desirable automobiles!). I would think a few Hupps and Grahams donated panels and pieces needed by a Cord . However, most of those Hupps and Grahams were likely already well on their way to the scraper. But that is mostly speculation on my part.

Wow!

Nice! It is wonderful to hear an antique automobile running for the first time in many years. Especially if it wakes up and runs great!

Some of those camping collector people are very dedicated! You wouldn't believe some of the prices really rough stuff might sell for. Most of what is gone in this thing is woodwork and other materials that likely would need to be replaced on a nice restoration. And if you have ever been to one of their shows? Pebble Beach ain't got nuthin' on what these folks will do with a 1940s or '50s camping trailer! A real one from the 1930s? I can only guess. Then again? All collectables are funny stuff, what is hot and what is not? As with all collectables, you better know what you are looking at. And personally, that isn't the era I am really interested in.

Thank you SR for the photos of the other ones! Boy, you really have to watch out for me. All I have to do is see a photo of an interesting car similar to one I saw ten years ago, and I will start dragging people down a rabbit hole with me! For that reason, I won't ask any more questions (here) about the cars not at the Audrain meet. A bit like a few of the model T speedsters and racing cars I have had! But I love driving cars like that! Open wheel, wind in your face! Someday I will have to tell of the time my wife and I got to follow a herd of cattle, we were in an open wheel speed car! (The only time I was able to tell my wife to "Shut your mouth!") As for flat tires? You are supposed to be prepared to fix them on the side of the road.

I know that several such cars exist, but did not know how many. It was an impressive car to watch being driven around, but I did not know who had it there. Every time I see pictures of one? I wonder if it might be the same one? Again, thank you so much for posting pictures of this event! I wish I could be there.