wayne sheldon

A car like this was very high on my list years ago, but never made it happen. It isn't a factory offering, but is nicely done and has a nice era look to it. I think the price is fair enough, and Abbott-Detroit although not well known are well liked by people that have had and toured with them! I do not know how correct the chassis is? But it looks good? If I had the money, I would be considering it.

Not much in the world better than good family! Sounds like there are some good people in yours. Nothing wrong with enjoying the "old car" hobby from any good vantage point! Quite a few regulars on this forum would consider that a fine collector automobile! My dad loved '70s and '80s Cadillacs.

Not many Elgin automobiles around. Looks like a good start on the restoration of that one. Still a lot to be done. What m-mman said.

They came in dozens of styles, sizes, and shapes, to fit numerous after-market radiator caps. That appears to be a salesman's case like an auto part store might have to affix the desired letter shield to the purchased cap. Caps came in flip-tops. fixed tops, dog-bones, wings, ladies, and other odd things. Shields could be had in plain or fancy, single or some multiple letters, career (like medical?), or even fraternal organizations. O D m 45, A very good friend many years ago had an almost identical cap as that with his initial on it!

THANK YOU Classiclines for that! Only so many hours in a day, and with so many other things (fun or not?) I just do not have the time to search out things like this. I am always trying to learn more, and really appreciate this forum for the opportunity for all of us to share what we know or learn. Again, thank you. Great information and brochure!

Those look ridiculous there! They ARE roadster top rests, NOT rumble seat grab handles. It is bad enough when restorers put them on coupes as grab handles (although arguably it could have been done back in the day as an after-market accessory????). But I think this may be the first time I have seen them mounted that way?

I have seen those lamps on a few WK automobiles, and in quite a few photos of cars. In most cases, there was only one of them on the car, so I suspect that was the usual treatment. But I don't know their function or reason. Never bothered to ask any of the WK owners I have known. If anybody knows the story behind them, I sure would like to read about it.

A friend of mine out here in California has helped with a couple rail museum's restorations of model T railcars. He is a railroad buff as well as model T and model A Fords and a 1916ish Dodge. Just another area of history to go crazy studying. So much fascinating stuff in the history of the automobile!

I am sure that you had plenty to do with the quality or your groups publications! Congratulations regardless! You look fine with a tie!

You look rightfully proud! Congratulations.

I think that is a mule. The picture could almost be my grandfather!

"In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not." Albert Einstein. Surge protectors are a crazy subject, needing lengthy dissertations to even begin the foundation of mutual understanding. Doing communication systems contracting, and specializing in cutting edge technologies in addition to our "bread and butter" work? We got into some pretty wild stuff from time to time. We became part of the teams building early non-government LANs (local area networks). Many of these systems were the forerunners of the internet. Connecting multi-million dollar computers separated by some distance requires special care and knowledge. While we did not work directly with the power systems, we had to work with those that did, and that was interesting. Basically, ninety-nine percent of "surge protectors" are nearly useless ninety percent of the time! There are a lot of very important numbers in the rating formulas, microseconds, Joules, response curves, and if one doesn't know what the numbers mean and how they relate to each other? (Believe me, I DO NOT know enough about it myself, but I know enough to know how much I do not know!) The biggest problem with surge protectors is that most of them are too slow. Most common surge protectors respond around one- one hundredth of a second. The problem is, that most surge damage from a significant surge occurs in the first one- five hundredth of a second (numbers are approximations). If your battery tender/charger uses a transformer to drop line voltage down to battery levels? The transformer itself tends to muddy the AC cycles somewhat as well as the spike's highs, and might buy your surge protector a few microseconds. But a few microseconds is all it will buy. A fully electronic battery tender for all practical reasons won't help at all in adding surge protection. A fully electronic battery charger will most likely become a blob of ashes and melted mass in about one- one hundredth of a second, by which time the surge spike will have already gone through and done its damage to everything in its path. Any good surge protection MUST be fully and PROPERLY grounded! Although, common plug-in surge protectors are a case of "can't hurt and might help (maybe?)".

I never really rode a motorcycle. However when I was much younger I put many thousands of miles on a bicycle, regardless of the weather (125 plus miles every week for over two years alone when I was going to college). And, I have never actually tried RainX. Although I think our newer second hand Ford Expedition had been treated with it before we bought it. For the first whole year I rarely turned on the windshield wipers because they blew clear so quickly! Guess I may have to try it myself.

I guess I can forgive you for this. Your car is so beautifully restored and complicated, that cleaning it up would be a nightmare! I have driven model T speedster (most no windshield, no fenders, very little body!) literally hundreds of miles in downpouring rain! A quick cleanup afterwards was adequate. The worst part about it for me was actually a sort of "catch 22". Although it never actually became an issue, without a windshield I am technically required to wear goggles. But goggles in the rain don't work very well without automatic wipers! After about fifteen minutes of wiping the goggles, one finds that no goggles and squint seems to work better! Bending your head down a bit also helps. An hour or so like that in heavy rain and you know you have done something! I hope I get to do that again someday!

So those were YOUR headlamps that I have been seeing photos of all over the place! Somewhere I saw someone ask who had them and did they sell or not? I don't know whether the Kissel was the only automaker that offered these as a factory option or not, but I do know they were a fairly popular after-market option back in the day. They don't show up very often in era photos, but sometimes do so. It seems that a lot of people kept them when they junked the cars as I have seen a lot of them at swap meets years ago. Personally, I have a sort of love/hate for them. While I think they are neat, and they look great on some cars, to me they look terrible on other cars. I do think they look fantastic on the Goldbugs, something about the shape and flow of the design fitting in so well with the Goldbug body. I have seen several model T speedsters with the E&J 20 headlamps. To me, generally they look just wrong on most T speedsters. Expensive headlamps on a cutdown T speedster is sort of like lipstick on a pig. A couple exceptions to that have been Mercury bodied boat-tail roadsters! On those, again, the body shape seems to really fit with the lamps, and the Mercury bodies were the top line for model T speedster bodies. How good they look on other cars, to me, depends on the artistic flow of design. Some cars they look great! Other cars, not so much. But that is me.

Front and rear, 1911 fenders are a lot different than 1910. Both front and rears flared in toward the chassis in 1911, similar to all the more common brass years that followed. 1909 and 1910 fenders, both front (except for the inner skirt which is folded and angles down to the chassis) and rear, the part of the fender that covers over the tire is basically straight about eight inches wide the full length of the fender. You can see this on the rear fender in the first photo. Also in the first photo, notice the space between the fender and the body. The 1911 and later brass era fenders flared inward to fill some of that gap. Notice also the two fender irons angling up from the chassis to the fender. Those double iron fender brackets are sometimes referred to as "butterfly" irons (or butterfly brackets). An interesting detail is, that most of the 1909 model year, the butterfly brackets were shaped somewhat differently, and they came up under the fender on the inside of the fender, between the wheel and the inner skirt of the rear fender (which you cannot see in the photo). The 1909 model year, mostly you would not be able to see the butterfly brackets from this angle! However, it was quickly discovered that mud collected badly inside the fender on the butterfly brackets. So late in 1909 model year the brackets were redesigned putting them between the fender's skirt and the body. That design continued all through the 1910 model year. For 1911, the butterfly brackets were discontinued, a single iron was attached to the body to support the rear fender. Only 1909 and some of 1910 model Ts had the "Ford" script cutout on the radiator core. At that, not all cars got that. Ford was having supply problems on many parts (they were assembling cars faster than many of their suppliers could make them!). Radiators were made by several companies, and varied a lot in design and details. For that year, 1909 only, a lot of cars got radiators that did not have the script stamped on the radiators top tank! Some historians believe that was one of the reasons Ford put the script on the radiator core (not sure I believe that myself?). Regardless of why, that script was (except for after-market accessory sales which were rare!) was put there by the Ford factory on some cars for those two years. Era photographs seem to indicate that most 1909s did have that script, a lot of early 1910s still got it, but as the production rolled along through 1910, fewer and fewer cars got that detail. Windshield and top were optional throughout 1909 and into early 1910 model year. A couple different styles of both the top and the windshield were offered for the cars. Early in the 1910 model year, top and windshield became standard equipment on the model T(except for the towncar), however, a few different styles continued to be offered. The windshields with the long brass rods (tubing actually!) was unusual for both 1909 and 1910, however it was one of the optional choices (often actually randomly supplied, you get what you get). Both the top and the windshield are likely factory supplied and installed. All things considered, the car is probably a 1910, probably the first half of 1910, but could be a very late 1909. It was probably a dark green color.

Perhaps a bit too much drift from the original intent of this thread? However, some historic background as to why certain things were the way they were is very helpful in the overall understanding sought in this threads beginning. A quick clarification, The push for better roads began well before 1910, with automobile clubs and civic groups lobbying and pushing for not just local, but long distance highway improvements. The Lincoln Highway officially opened in 1915 as a result of several years effort and improvement. It was one of a few "interstate" highways to officially open before the Great War (world war one). Pushing back to the original intent for Bob i V. There is a wonderful world of in between cars. Automobiles not quite to the status of the really big wheel and high horsepower cars that cost so much. And quite a lot of these cars can be had at somewhat affordable prices. Being not quite so big, while a tow vehicle and big enough trailer may be required, they do not need to be the big end top of the lines level. Personal experiences through friends with their cars as well as my own? Buick (mentioned a lot already) had quite a lot of models, including both four or six cylinder big models. Two different very good friends have had (for a long time now!) the 1915 big six cylinder seven passenger touring cars (was it a B?, C? -55?). One I spent quite a bit of time around, and toured alongside several times! The other one I actually drove for several miles. (I don't often drive other people's cars, just not comfortable doing so, but they had been trying to repair a screwed up clutch and wanted another opinion on how well it was working.) (It drove really nice!) The OHV valve cages do have a propensity to rotate occasionally. However, once you understand that, it isn't a serious problem, and it should (if the car is reasonably well maintained?) be a quick and easy fix when it happens. A good friend developed a weak cylinder on his big six and fixed it during the coffee and donut stop on a club tour. Took about ten minutes while I watched (and ate my donut!). (I did offer to get greasy and help, but he said no need to!) Several friends and club members have had the smaller six cylinder 1914/'15 Hudson touring cars (the big Hudson six is truly a big wheel high horsepower car!). But everyone I know with the Hudson small six loves the car! I know three of them that are toured often! Two of them I toured alongside numerous times. The one I have the most experience with myself, is Studebaker. Yes, that transaxle rear end is a weak area. However, if you get a good one, and there are a lot of good ones? Learn to use it and shift it properly, and they are great. The 1913 into midyear 1915 was a carryover from the four cylinder EMF, however Studebaker added (one of the first production mono-block sixes) a six cylinder model to their lineup during 1913. Even the four cylinder Studebakers were great cars! For a couple hundred more pounds, and nearly fifty percent more horsepower (bore and stroke are the same!), the sixes were a real powerhouse of an automobile! About June of 1915, Studebaker did a midyear model change. They increased the bore slightly, and made several improvements to the engine and other aspects of the car. The July 1915 built ED six I had was a fantastic tour car. With its 34X4 tires, 355 cid, and 50 horsepower, it was about as close to the BIG BOYS as one could get without going way up in cost. I never did find the top speed. It was happy at 50 mph. I had it somewhat over 55mph several times. One time, my wife had done something foolish, and injured her shoulder. I had signed up for a major national club tour that happened to be taking place only a few miles from my home. A quick few phone calls, and I got the itinerary for the day (in case I could get away at some point?). I spent all morning getting her shoulder checked out, nothing serious, a sling, some medications she had had before, and she said "you paid for the tour, I'll be fine for a few hours at home, GO!" So I did. I was running late to catch them at a planned stop at a historic site about fifteen miles from home, so the Studebaker and I hit the freeway and flew! A couple miles from my house is about a half mile fairly steep hill (most of it about six percent). The Studebaker and I crested the hill at fifty miles per hour! Unfortunately, a few years later, family needs forced me to have to sell the car. A longtime good friend bought it, which in some ways hurt, in other ways helped me a lot. I know he took even better care of the car than I ever could have. Knowing it is in such good hands helps a lot. But I would give 'almost' anything to have it or one like it back again. There are a dozen other midrange marques that could also be almost a BIG BOY HCCA toy. Some, like Reo, did build sixes before or in 1915. Others like a lot of the lower production marques did build large four cylinder cars. The problem with the lesser known and lower production marques is that finding owners of them to get personal experiences from can be difficult. Not all cars then were well engineered. If an opportunity for something like a Moyer comes along? You may have trouble finding anyone that knows anything about them. (Don't ask me much about a Moyer, although I did know someone that had one, and did see it at his home a very long time ago!) Enjoy the journey, Bob, learning is half the fun!

It has been a little while since I have seen a car with one of those "Owl Lite" spot lights. If I recall correctly, they were manufactured in Oakland California, and were quite popular to put on midsize to large cars in the Western states. We used to see dozens of them for sale at swap meets, most of them incomplete after being removed from cars that were being junked. One of my best friends forty years ago had 1927 Buick Master sedan with one. I knew several people including Jack Passey had a few mid to late 1920s Lincolns with Owl Lites. I probably saw nearly a couple dozen different cars with them, a long time ago. That silly thing itself makes me wish I had the money to spare, and could seriously consider this car. Although, after looking at the rest of the photos, I would have to say "no thank you".

Looks like it has some good potential? But no reason why it doesn't run, and no decent pictures of the interior, leaves some questions to be asked.

Nice car from the outside! Interior may or might not be original? But it looks decent.

The original interior isn't near perfect, but actually not too bad. Exterior is a bit rough for the price. The small Studebaker was a pretty good car in its day. I had a 1925 (similar engine and chassis) years ago which I drove quite a lot for a few years.

Nice looking car!

Since it is a "prototype" "one-off"? There IS only one! Only this ONE! I understand it was donated to a specialty museum where the car belongs. Unless you are so wealthy that you can buy and sell major corporations, you are not likely to get this one.

I almost never have a battery connected to a charger of any kind except when I am home and awake. When trying to bring a battery back up? I unplug it and disconnect the charger from the battery when I go to sleep.

Sounds like fun!