wayne sheldon

Now, THAT is funny! Rental cars get abused in so many ways. But using one to transport an engine on the back seat has got to be unusual? Although that engine looks more clean than I do, and probably weighs less than do half the people reading this.

I may make it known often that I begin losing interest in collector cars after around the late 1920s? And I have commented several times that I much prefer the Duesenberg model "A" over anything in the "J" series! However, even I do appreciate significant landmark models of popular cars throughout automotive history. So, in spite of the fact I will likely never own any Porsche (although I am sure I would enjoy driving one if I had one?), mainly because I would never spend that much money for a car I don't really want? I do find that car interesting to look at and do appreciate its significance. Thank you for posting those photos! Also thank you for posting the other semi-modern collector car (1930s!) photos from Pebble.

Congratulations! Considering some of the other RRs seen in photos, that sounds like quite an accomplishment.

If I recall correctly what I read years ago? California's statewide speed limit during the 1930s was 35 mph. California, especially in those days, had great distances between major cities. Many people in those days still remembered the time when the fastest they ever traveled was on the back of a horse! In those prewar years, the majority of drivers never ever went over 30 mph. It is just how it was in those days. Bragging about a car being capable of sustained sixty plus may have made for some compelling advertising? However it meant little in the real world of most people. There was nothing new about that either? Ford, in 1908, practically guaranteed their model K 6-40 roadster capable of 70 mph! Again, not that most people would ever find a road they would be willing to try it on.

Where's the front???? 😁

AJ, Ed, et al, Allow me to add my "Thank You" for the wonderful photos and insightful commentaries over these events and the cars that make the big show so special!

I, am impressed! Rarely do I find a model T fire truck impressive!

I have been a bit more curious about the evolution of the early Studebaker six cylinder engine lately. I sort of lost interest when I had to sell the 1915 built series 16 Studebaker six that I had had. However, lately, one of the big antique automobile dealers has had a 1912 Everitt six cylinder touring car for sale. I believe one of the lesser known of the EMF/Studebaker group. Photos of the engine were very interesting, in that it resembled the EMF and early Studebaker four cylinder engines, and I couldn't be sure, but it appeared to be a mono-block six?. Studebaker is generally considered to have been the first mass production mono-block six. I find the relationship between Studebaker and that 1912 Everitt to be interesting. As for Flanders building a six? Again, I am not sure, but I seem to recall reading something about it years ago?

I was thinking I saw a bunch of great RRs scattered through all the photos. Best of luck!

Looks like a door sill plate. I know a lot of early Maxwell models had such things. I have seen a lot of nice reproductions of the originals at swap meets over the years, and suspect this might be a repro. Different models used different sizes of sill plates. Early Maxwell forums might help identify which model they would fit. https://forums.aaca.org/forum/25-maxwell/

I am sure that proper "water pump" grease is the best way to go. If you can get it. About twenty years ago, I emptied the last of my old can of water pump grease. A couple quick phone calls found the model A suppliers out of stock at the time, with no recommendations. So I bought a tube of boat trailer wheel bearing grease at the local auto parts supplier. It seamed to work just fine. It is specially formulated to withstand water getting into it, lubricated the water pump shaft quite well, and didn't leak. In case you can't get the real thing.

I don't even know what that was? However, IF the serial number tag was worth that much? I would certainly think that the car was of special historic interest and that nearly every scrap of original metal remaining would actually be resurrected and used on the completed automobile! I have restored worse myself. I resurrected an original era model T boat-tail roadster that had been totaled in a rollover wreck decades earlier, and then stripped of anything usable. One half of the tail section was torn loose, smashed inside out and stuffed into the other side! It took more than fourteen linear feet of crack and tear welding to put the main body alone back together! I used every ounce of original metal remaining, straightened, and welded, and reshaped back to original form. Being a model T Ford of course all the missing parts were easily sourced. After I had bought the wreckage, a dozen people that saw it told me that "it could not be restored!" I wanted an original after-market bodied model T speedster. I restored it. And I very much enjoyed driving it for several years before I had to sell it in order to buy our first home. If that car's serial number plate is worth that much? That car deserves no less.

Late 1922 was the first of Ford factory four-door sedans. The first ones (I don't know the production numbers for them?), practically all the body sheet metal was aluminum. Historians debate about the reason why. Supposedly, it was a weight consideration. Although others believe it was more about custom building the first few hundred of them. Aluminum was easier to work with hand forming over panel bucks. Early 1923 saw a few of the simpler panels made of steel, and by the end of 1923 model year, only the doors were aluminum. Early 1924 had even the doors were steel. Thicker lighter aluminum or thinner heavier steel? The final weight wasn't that different. Ford's gigantic steel stamping presses could turn out steel panels more quickly than they could aluminum. At the volume of Ford's production by 1924, it was cheaper to make them out of steel. A detail to pay attention to! Notice that the top of the body cowl does NOT have a ventilation door! Only the earliest, late 1922, Fordor sedans did not have a cowl vent. The 1923 through 1927 Fordors all had a vent there. That, along with all significant body panels being aluminum, does make this a very early Ford (Fordor) sedan. I have over the years known several owners of Fordor sedans, and probably have seen a couple dozen of them from the six years Ford built them. I think I might have seen maybe three about this early. As a clarification for anybody somewhat familiar with model T Fords, and my comment about the Fordor's cowl vent going through 1927? Most model Ts did in fact have the gasoline tank in 1926 and 1927 mounted in the cowl, and it was filled through a fake vent door in the center of the cowl. However, for 1926 and 1927, the four-door sedan was the one car body style exception to that gasoline tank relocation. The Fordor continued with the gasoline tank under the front seat just as most body styles had had since the beginning of model T production! Hence, the Fordor's vent door was still a real vent. The TT ton truck's gasoline tank also remained under the front seat for those years.

Maybe an issue with the translation? "To restore"? The outside looks too nice to "restore" as long as there aren't hidden serious rust issues. As suchan says, mechanical issues? As long as the mechanics aren't junk, even if it needs a major interior it looks like a decent buy?

I know that I sometimes come across as a "purist". But I really am not one. Certainly I can nitpick model T Fords along with the best of them! And in spite of the fact that I never really got into the model As much, a lot of my friends over the years did. And I learned quite a bit about them. I have spent many hours working on their cars. And one particular close friend, I often drove his 1929 model A Town Sedan, usually at night going home from a busy weekend. He had a problem with driving too tired, but I have had lifelong insomnia and usually can drive all night. The 1924 model T coupe I had for several years was a decent looking "twenty footer", old was-a-nice-restoration. But the interior was quite incorrect. It wasn't offensive looking, and I didn't mind sitting on it. I basically see this model A as a decent car that could be enjoyed. Is the color correct? No, but I don't think it is hideous. Is the interior done correctly? Again, no, however it looks nicely done, in a fabric that is not far from a couple of the dozen fabrics used in some model A models. And I am not "expert" enough to know which fabrics were used in which body styles. Although there is a modern touch to it, overall it isn't bad (it is closer to right than my model T coupe was). I haven't seen much of the mechanics of this car. If the engine is good? And the rest of the driveline and chassis okay? A few "easy fixes" could make this a good enjoyable model A! Painting all the fenders and associated parts that should be black, black! And put the correct model A wheels on it. Those two things would improve the look of this car a lot! I would almost bet that it has hydraulic brakes. Some people would like that. I would not. How difficult that would be to make correct depends upon how severely things were modified. Like most people here, I have gotten older. I had to sell all my good cars for family needs, and I am hoping to eventually buy something to replace a couple of the cars I had, something I could drive and enjoy without having to spend a bunch more time working on it.. I have reached a point where I know the smart thing for me to do would be a model A Ford. But I really want something just a bit earlier. I really want a good midsize non-Ford. However, the model A with club and commercial support offers the most fun at the least risk. IF (big IF) I were to seriously consider a model A? And the timing and price and money and - - -, all came together? I would seriously consider this subject car.

1928 for Buick was a one year only style. A transition between the mid 1920s style and the ones built from 1929 through 1932. Mid 1920s Buicks had shorter sweep front fenders that followed the front wheel just a bit more closely. All the fenders had a "double crown", or a step up from the side curve of the fender and the top of the fender. 1928, like the models that followed for a few years, had longer sweep front fenders and a much smoother crown with no significant bumps or raised areas other than the outer bead and the seam between the crown and inner skirt of the fender. Mid 1920s Buicks radiator shells had a slightly more pronounced shape, with sharper offsets and corners. The 1928 is only slightly changed, but when one gets used to them the difference is quite noticeable. Be aware that there are actually a bunch of different years and model sizes of the radiator shells that do not interchange for a number of reasons. The difference in the 1928 shell is quite subtle. The 1929 through 1932 shell is very different with rounded corners instead of sort of sharp turns from the sides to the top. Mid 1920s Buick headlamps were of a semi-drum style. They varied by years and models in the specific sizes and shapes, as well as finish (plated or painted trim or buckets. However all Buicks 1925 through 1927 had drum style headlamps. 1928 Buicks had a "bullet" or "acorn" style headlamp, very rounded in the back, however somewhat "chunky" looking. The 1928 bezel/rim looked heavier than the later headlamps. the '28 rims were similar to the earlier ones. 1929 through 1932 Buicks had a more sleek sharper acorn style, common among many fine cars of 1929. The cowl lamps on 1925 through 1928 Buicks are a shape similar to the headlamps. Drum headlamps had drum shaped cowl lamps, acorn shaped headlamps had acorn shaped cowl lamps. That trend did continue into the early 1930s. There are dozens of other minor details, and I certainly do not know most of them myself. And, of course, as dibarlaw mentioned, check the data plate on the firewall for the model number.

Nice to see this one here! I look forward to following this one being brought back.

I like the car! In my current stage and position in life, I would not be a good candidate to care for it. I have neither the time nor the money to give it the care it deserves. Besides, I already have five or so project piles that I need to try to finish to some usable extent. This Pierce Arrow is in almost exactly the condition the 1929 Reo was in when I bought it while I was still in high school. I got it running, and sorted well enough to enjoy driving it for several years. However, I later sold that Reo as I began to realize I really wanted cars a bit earlier than that. I would have the same problem with this Pierce Arrow coupe. I mostly really like the Brass and Nickel era cars and history. Some of the Nickel Era group activities cut off acceptance at 1927. As much as I would like this car? I would dislike having it and then not be able to use it for a Nickel Era Group activity. At the risk of further thread drift. For those not familiar with the various "eras" of collector cars. Several "Nickel Era" clubs or groups do have later cutoff years! There is no one significant date to apply. However, the technological advancement that made the more durable chrome plating practical (copper undercoating) came about around 1926 (again, no specific one date or even year). A handful of automobile manufacturers (including GM's Oldsmobile!) began applying the new process chrome plating in 1927. For 1928, nearly half of automobile manufacturers were using the new process chrome plating. Even Ford on the new model A used some chrome plating, although the most obvious items like headlamps and radiator shell were still nickel. There were of course stragglers. My 1929 Reo? Was an early model year car, and all original plating on it was nickel! Although by the about middle of the model year, chrome was replacing the nickel on Reo. And there were always stragglers. A few cars and some customs continued using nickel clear up to WWII. And I would imagine beyond. However, effectively, the "nickel" era ended with 1927. Personally, I prefer 1927 as the Nickel era cutoff. For most, chrome was the rule in 1928. The "era" was over. Several "nickel" era groups cutoff between 1930 and 1932. So, in addition to all the Prewar, CCCA, and Pierce Arrow Society activities this car would be great for? It would qualify for a lot of Nickel Era stuff. Regardless. This Pierce Arrow is a car that I think should be saved and used. I would figure on replacing the head and the connecting rods for the reasons given. Clean it up, sort it for driving, and enjoy it often. I am not sure about the paint. What color was this coupe originally? The yellow under the black might be savable? One would need to examine the car closely to determine that. I haven't noticed a link to the auction listing? What condition is the interior? I am going to be curious to see what it sells for.

I remember that also!

A lot of people think that if it doesn't have a 350 crate engine in it, it is "all original".

It appears to be the "Special" coupe, built for only about a year as I recall (late 1928/early 1929). Those are somewhat rare. They can be faked by padding a very common standard coupe, however, the interior shot appears to show the separate rear-side window pieces which if I recall correctly are unique to the "Special" coupe. But I could be wrong about that? When I was still in high school, and somewhat interested in a model A, I found one in a small town wrecking yard. Hence I read up on them a bit. I considered trying to buy the thing, but the owner thought it was a gold mine and wanted as much as a complete running car could be had for at that time. I haven't played with a model A Ford in almost fifty years now.

Interesting. I had never heard of that, but it does make some sense, I guess? I really like the early PeL cars. They tend to be quite impressive compared to so many of their contemporaries. I hope a photo of he and his car can be found and identified.

Pretty sure that is a 1928 model Standard six. Although it my have been early enough to be titled as a 1927?

Steve/58L-Y8, Wonderful writeup! A lot of history and background in a short piece! Some of that I have read before in bits and pieces in multiple discussions. It is really nice to see this all together like this.

I am NO expert when it comes to these cars. What I do know about them tells me that they can be wonderful cars, IF they are well sorted and haven't been monkeyed with too much. The engines were problematical, and more than a few of them have had the engines changed. Which may or may not be a good or bad thing. I have heard that some Continentals had their problematic engines replaced by the smaller V12 from Zephyr models. And prewar and postwar engines differ somewhat, Some cars have wrong era engines in them. That I would imagine affects value considerably. If I were to get interested in the Lincoln Continental,? I would do some serious research into what is right or wrong on them, and what are considered "acceptable" fixes. I know that most of the issues that made them problematical do have acceptable fixes, things like improved water pumps or other non-drastic changes. People I used to know loved the cars, and told me the "problems" they had can be corrected. The market on these seems to have been soft lately. Some very nice cars have been selling for well below what they were selling for a decade ago. Good deals are out there! But you need to know what to look for and what questions to ask. This is a great place to start! But someone that knows a lot more than I do will need to start filling in the blanks. You may also want to check around the V12 Lincoln section under the "Ford Products" thread section down below. https://forums.aaca.org/forum/95-v12-lincolns-only/ Good luck!