Bud Tierney

Fred: Interesting... I don't follow cars much anymore, but Hudson's always been kind of a favorite, having owned some in my misspent youth-jalopy days.... Have two Hudson books but could only fine Conde's, in which he mentions the Atlas, Buda and Cont engines but gives no engine ID designations... The few old replacement parts catalogs I have listing Hudson give a few later Cont ID's but nothing for the 33, and those that list the 33 just list one engine (1917 Burd rings, 24 Houpert piston, 30 Mann Pins). Std Cat doesn't mention any engine changes, but if strictly internal probably wouldn't unless producing HP etc differences. I did note that the 24 piston catalog lists the pin as Oscillating (on an index of Oscillating, Stationary or Full Floating) while the 30 catalog lists it as what I assume is floating (on an index of A, F and FF--A I don't know, I assume F=floating and FF=full floating). The only other spec in both catalogs is pin diam=.968 in the 30, .9687 in the 24. If the 33 engine was produced solely for Hudson, Cont may not've given it a separate designation; it could be the same for the earltier Atlas and Budas

OOPS--forgot to mention those "noncompos" posts were mine from before I got tired of juggling screen names and converted to my own...easier to remember...

Well, despite not finding much in the way of old truck/tractor listings for the 5.1 engines, they seem to be quite sought after by collectors/enthusiasts...... I assume you've run the archives here and found the "T-Head Motor" thread 1-31-2011 jdhuffman re' the 6cyl "L" power unit found in an underground mine in Ajo AZ (Ajo is about as far away from anyplace as you can get and still be someplace, assuming Ajo's still there--(copper mining town))...snagged and hauled back east somewhere after several parties inquired... The JAU I mentioned is NOT a "J" variation, as I found listings showing both the JA and the JAU as 51/8x6... There IS a JOU, which I'd overlooked on my list, which IS another 4 Cyl 5.1 bore, but I have no stroke... You might also post on the Fire Truck sites (alfowners and spaamfaa (??) are the only ones that come to mind) as the JJ Schneer/Schnerr "tractor" ( NOT Ag tractor but tractor in the sense of tractor-trailer rig, apparently) and South Bend truck listings were probably for some of their fire eqpmt models. Also HCEA and similar for any used as stand-alone power units or driving gens/pumps/shovels/ditch diggers/tile layers etc.. Any history known on yours, what it came out of/was used for??

Rods: Must've missed your post the last time I was in the site... There were at least two 5.1 bore Wisconsins per my old parts catalogs: 4 Cyl J and JU (I assume the JU is a variation) 6 Cyl L (NOT TO BE CONFUSED with later water-cooled 6 cyl L1, L2, L3, L4, all smaller bores). They're listed in a 1917 Burd ring catalog, which lists by bore and ring size; that very small section lists an Indiana truck model JU for 1912-16 (coincidence??) and a couple South Bend trucks: 1914 model L and 1915 model JU (another coincidence??). I believe there's an Indiana truck club somewhere... The Burd lists a couple more orphans, including a Garford; I'll dig around a little during the week and advise if I find any other listings. A 32 King Prod (engine parts) catalog lists the same bearings for the A, AU, JU and JAU 4cyl (J and L not listed--I have the JAU on my Wisc list but have no bore/stroke for it, nor do I know if it's another J variation)...it shows rod, front and center main the same bearing, rear main different bearing...typo?? (no piston assembly or valves listed for any of Js or the L)

WHTB: My apologies for not blowing up your original pic of the tag...I believe you're correct in it's being the sad remains of a 6Y...you can see the 6Y was formed as part of the tag and all the other numbers are stamped... Both 30 McCord and 38 Victor gasket catalogs show the 6Y, 7U and 10U sharing the gaskets listed, the OE numbers listed being 6YA-number etc, all being 31/8x41/4... Both those catalogs list, under some of the engines, the vehicles they were used in (well, some, as these catalogs are never complete and often contradictory)...because I feel bad about missing the pic, here's what the 30 McCord lists: Anderson---Light 6 model 41---22-25--6Y and 7U...in these cases the catalog doesn't state if both engines were options, were installed depending on which was available at the moment or if one succeeded the other... Auburn---model 43---23-25----6Y, 7U Barley---Light 6-50---23-24---same Columbia---Light 6---22-24---same Davis---71/ 72. 90---22-25---same Elcar---50, Light 6---24-25---7U only Hanson---30---1922-23---6Y only Hertz---Hertz (the rental Hertz) built this as the first rental car 26-27; neither of these two catalogs list it, and while I do have two listings in other catalogs, one sez 7Z and the other 8U, so I'd guess Hertz put in whatever was in surplus at the time...It's also possible the engine was not in the Hertz but in its predecessor, the Ambassador, originally a luxury car (controlled by Hertz) ,but a smaller car was built 24-25?? just before the name was changed...that would closer match the years of the above cars, too... Moon---40---22-25---6Y, 7U Roamer---50-55---25-26---7U only Columbia truck--Distribution 1Ton---no yrs stated---7U only. Oddly enough, none of the vehicles listed used the 10U... I don't feel bad enough to run any catalogs to see what else the 6Y supposedly went into; too many Cont'ls...some Auburn owner will probably be interested... Per a 36 King Products catalog the 6Y shares Piston assembly with 7U to # 41897, H6, H7, W4, P17 4 Cyl's with Osc.Type Pin...(the P- indicates a free-standing power unit)... 6Y had its own valves to #10500; after that it shared valves with 6W, 7U, 7Z and 10U... Rods and mains were shared with 6W, 7U and 7Z, with a note that the rod insert shown was to replace the poured bearing. (No, I don't know what those other engines went in, and I don't care). With sympathy, Bud

Merkel Motor Co, Milwaukie, Wisc (of the Merkel Motorcycle/Flying Merkel fame) advertised 4 cyl inline automobile engines in 1907 and 1908. One ad described a 31/2x31/2 air cooled of 12-14 HP, and three water cooled, ranging from 14-16 to 35-40 HP, with an illus of a 4cyl water cooled cast in pairs... This was before Merkel merged with or was taken over by Light (1909?--I didn't note from the Merkel website)... Light built tractor engines, maybe more, but my dates show later... The Merkel website didn't mention the auto engines (or perhaps I missed any mention that was there)... Does anyone here know whether these engines made it into production and into vehicles??? Many thxx!! Bud

whtbaron: Assuming that was actually a 1925, just eyeballing two replacement parts catalogs that cover Moon show Cont'ls 6Y, 7C, 7R, 7U, 7Z and 8R...looking at more catalogs may indicate others...I do not know the differences in the engines, if any... Does that have any visible cast/stamped numbers/letters???

I don't recall seeing your inquiry on oldmarineengine.com, altho I don't follow the site religiously... Google says it is (was?) a special marine racing engine; was it domesticated??? It does show in a 40 McCord gasket catalog, but possibly because the few gaskets listed also fit its apparent brothers, the UH and UHD (31/16x43/4). I don't ordinarily follow marine engines so my apologies if this's belaboring the obvious...

DD: Did you investigate UK or Continent sources for those rings?? They may've used many non-us compatible sizes...

Does anyone here have a ref book that mentions the Binsse Machine Co of Harrison, NJ, apparently involved in the developing/mfg?? of a Howard automobile engine around 1913 or so??? Listing under gasoline automobile engine builders with the "Howard" reference was in a 1913 Automobile Trade Journal or Directory; I saw one Binsse ad with a pic of an inline 6, in one of the Auto Trade Jnls/Direct's, but lost note re location; Google has a reference to a 1912 pamphlet by Binsse "Spec sheet for Howard 4 and 6 Cyl" The Binsse company that built boring machines etc was in Newark--don't know if related or not... Apparntly not connected to the Howard marine engine sold by/mfd by?? Grant-Ferris Co about the same time, altho seems an awful coincidence... Many thxx!!

How does the old saying go??---A man who represents himself as his own atty has a fool for a client??--or something similar... As already mentioned above, find yourself an atty to at least get local professional advice... With apologies to everyone who quoted/referred to statutes, it's not just what the specific law states but also how local courts have interpreted/applied it over the years... And, yes, it's also perfectly true that unless you have an atty in the family, or have a considerable amount of actual out-of-pocket money tied up here (as opposed to "expectations"), and unless you can find one to handle it on a contingent fee basis, atty fees may well be more than you're able to get back... Welcome to the legal world!! With sympathy, Bud

John Dolson and son built quite nice cars, getting a nicely detailed 3-page writeup in a 1907 Horseless Age issue, incl nice pix and good desc of engine/s...everything except who built them, despite mentioning the builders of other "assembled car" components in that piece... Robert Dluhy's Brass Era book listed a 2cyl and four different fours: 41/2x43/4 5x5 41/2x51/4 5x51/2, altho this was maybe a 5x51/4...one of which was in their "Cannonball" roadster, ads guaranteeing 75 mph... Std Cat, var Aut'm'ble Trade Jnls/Directories, pieces in Harpers, Motor, Motor Way, car spec sites no help... Does anyone have a ref book that maybe mentions their engine maker/s??? Many thxx!! Bud

Anyone here have a Schlosser T-head (Schlosser Mfg Co, 151 E 126th, NY City 1906?? thru 1930 and maybe later)...engines built 1907??-?? for autos, trucks, marine, used in some/all?? Schlosser cars 1910-13?? If so, does it have a sharply angled stylized "S' on the center of the front timing cover?? Just an "S", no surround or outline, maybe a period looking thing on the right bottom curve/angle of the "S". OR does that emblem sound familiar to anyone?? Many thxx!! Bud (Trying to figure out how to make link for pic)...

Is anyone here familiar with this reissue in relation to the original 1920 something issue?? Content the same, or has the reissue omitted any of the more obscure engines, like some of the reissued repair manuals omitting orphans?? Any comments appreciated. many thxx!! Bud

Americans don't always agree on "backfire" (explode, while apt, is the wrong English word)... Backfiring out the tailpipe/exhaust (exploding out the tailpipe) is often confused with "coughing" (exploding) (backfiring) out the carb... I've never heard of a carb being damaged/broken because of coughing/backfiring out the carb, but there's lots I've never heard of... It's more likely you still have a fuel or ignition problem of some kind... A better description of the engine and its problems would help...on idle does it miss, run rough, lope, try to die?? The same with the higher speed problem/s...if it runs smoothly in between you've luckily escaped Bob's hydraulicking dangers (your rings probably had enough clearance the liquid seeped down into the pan). Any black smoke at any engine speed??--that'd be a sign the engine was flooding (too much fuel) either because of carb letting in too much fuel or poor/weak ignition/improper sparkplug not strong enough spark to fire all fuel. Do you have any kind of repair book/manual that has a "troubleshooting" checklist (step by step instruction on how to locate fuel/spark problems?? If so, what all have you checked/tried??

Std Cat says the 1913 was on a 98 inch whelbase with a 7HP V-twin, the 1914 was 100 inches with a 10HP 4, and the 1915 was a light car with a 16HP 4, but no production numbers are mentioned. Srd Cat estimated prices (1987?) (my copy says "First Edition, First Printing" but looks like a cheap knock-off) would br sadly out of date, and I have no idea if they were remotrly reliable at production.

TRIMACAR: Many thxx for comments. Good thinking on the "...our 70HP engine...", except for the background: Halvor Sageng was, of all things, a missionary, apparently interested in farm/ag concepts because of background or personal inclinations; at any rate, the Thresher he designed was a great leap forward--quite possibly too much of a leap--as it didn't sell. Reportedly only 21 or so were built over several years, no known survivors.The operation does not seem to've been more than moderatly financed, and none of the bios, trade journal pieces of the period etc mention Halvor or his Threshing Company being involved in anything remotely resembling engine development. (Bankrupt in 1912; yes, descendants are trying to find if there was inventory of what sold at Receivers sale--maybe some engines?). The Thresher was a remarkable advance in technology, and I'd assume that if Halvor or anyone associated with the operation had developed a new engine it would've been ballyhooed in the Company ads and trade journal pieces as well as mentioned in his bios/later farm magazine pieces about his Thresher. Halvors Thresher was the first to be self-powered/self-propelled (others were run by belts from separate tractors/motors). I'd assume he'd want a known, reliable engine in it, so purchasers wouldn't be presented with both a revolutionary new Thresher powered by a new untried engine. But--who knows??

CBEN09: Many thxx for comments; this sounds like real progress. The illus of the bottom end of the rod does--to me, at least, being unfamiliar with most marine engines--seem to have an oddly heavy squarish look. The illus of the engine (post #3 on the stak site is the best illus) did bring a marine engine to mind, but I assumed that was because most of the inline multi-cyl, cyls cast separately engine illus's I remember seeing were mostly marine... Did you eyeball the engine pic and the rod illus (post #12 on the stak site)? We'd appreciate your opinion as to whether the engine looks familiar. Again, many thxx for the help!

Kevin W advises on the stak site that the Witte engine used such a system, the wrist pin connection being threaded. However, the Witte was/is a one cyl farm work engine (variously called hit-n-miss, hopper cooled or flywheel engines--my apologies to enthusiasts, these are outside my experience). This still leaves the question of whether this arrangement was ever used on a production inline engine similar to the one pictured/described in the Thresher brochure..

LAYDEN: The pix/info isn't mine; I'd link to the smokstak thread if I knew how. I'll see if I can get the owner to post here. I'm not familiar enough with that period engine to know if the desc in the manual/brochure is a then "modern" engine or someones wishful thinking, but we'd appreciate your opinion. RUSTY: I thought perhaps an adjustable con rod, to adjust compression, might've been something I'd missed about older engines, or that it'd be such an oddity it would easily ID the engine. Reportedly there were only 21 of these thresher units built--apparently too far ahead of its time per comments--but they're all long gone, and we don't even know if the engine illus in the brochure was actually the engine or engines actually installed or someone's prototype or ideas...the descendants of the inventor are trying to ID the engine in the manual/brochure...

A 4Cyl inline engine, cyls cast separately, 1905-08 period rated by seller 70HP (no typo) has a tubular connecting rod that the brochure says is adjustable to adjust compression, so I assume would have to be adjustable as to length, something I can't recall ever hearing of altho, admittedly, this period outside my experience. Please don't tell me everyone used them. Five mains Remy type S hi-tens mag gear driven Kingston carb Brass gears pump, all pipes/fittings brass (I assume water pump??) Oiling "automatic splash and force feed oiler" (does that mean oil pump or something earlier??) Oddly, while the engine is desc as gasoline, the brochures Fuel Supply and Fuel Consumption paragraphs each use the word "oil" once, as if those paragraphs were copied from a brochure of a Kerosene version and they didn't get all the "OIL" references changed to "gasoline"?? It was on a 1908 piece of unconventional farm eqpmt that didn't sell, apparently from an established engine mfr'r of the period. If the above doesn't positively ID it, a good pic and more info is on the "Sageng Thresher" thread on smokstak (sorry, never learned how to link). My apologies for not putting this in the Tech forum; I thought more eyes would see it here--the people involved've been trying to ID this engine for years. Any comments appreciated!!! Many thxx!!! Bud

Rutenber produced a 4Cyl 43/4x5, possibly/probably their "U" engine, from 1908-??? (believe it was gone from a 1916 ad or announcement listing engines available in 1916 or so)...it's the conventional inline 4, cyls cast separately... Shown in ads as a 40-45 HP engine, a small piece somewhere said it would develop 50HP... I believe it's the engine in the 1908 or so Glide "G" Special--43/4x5, 45HP. We're trying to determine if it's the same engine as used in the Avery Farm and City Tractor/Truck built 1910-1914 or so; an Avery brochure describes a 4cyl 43/4x5 45HP engine, and it's reportedly a Rutenber. I have a fair?? list of Rutenber engined cars/trucks, but I have next to no data that far back to tell which other vehicles had the (or, a) 43/4x5 4cyl... There is a reportedly original Avery truck in the iowa1080 museum we can compare pix/numbers/letters/whatever with... Any comments appreciated!!!. ...

You might try checking with SuperJeff (Jeff L, who runs the "What Am I" forum/section now on justoldtrucks). He has a monumental collection of old truck pix, and may have one or more clear enough to compare with yours... Another thought is to run down museums that have Libertys on display--curators are often both very helpful with sending pix of what's on their display models and good sources for others looking for parts for similar displays or restoretions.... From that time period it has value no matter what it came off of; how much depends on too many variables to list...

OOPS---forgot---you might also look up pix of Nash Quad to see what kind of lights it had...

Where to post??? Well, since you have what you believe (hope?) to be a WWI truck light, why not try WWI vehicle eqpmt and various old truck sites?? My apologies: I have a bad cold, spent a sleepless night and'm having trouble keeping my sweet-disposition controls in place... (1) scroll down to the bottom the page and try blastermike in AU (2) Google WWI truck, WWI vehicle, WWI eqpmt sites and see what comes up (steelsoldiers comes to mind, but I'm not familiar with it) (3) general truck sites: aths, justoldtrucks, antiquetruckclubofamerica, all free that I'm familiar with:Google for more (4) While WWI military trucks not my thing, believe there was: Class "A"---11/2 ton light duty/recon, 27HP engine?? Class "AA"---lighter?? like maybe a 3/4 ton pickup?? Class "B"---3 ton This's the mass produced model, produced by 15 mfr's per Mroz; the others supposedly much smaller numbers Class "C"---updated enlarged tandem axle "B", possibly post-WWI?? (Can't find my notes or anything else this AM!!)... PLUS at least two different Signal Corps Aviation trucks, Plus Lord knows what-all else I'm open to correction/illumination on any or all of the above...