Bud Tierney

Dandy Dave is right--there's a market for any vehicle from 1918 or so; even if it's not rebuildable, there's a market for the pieces left (Diamond T was an "assembled" truck, so the engine etc may well've been used in a number of other period 'makes")...try: diamondtclassics.com the smokstak Antique Car & Truck forum ATHS (Antq/American?? Truck Hist Soc) You might even put a note on the "Commercial vehicle" forum here....that should keep your computer warm for awhile... And thank you for the efforts to keep another oldie from being scrapped

You have to be wide-ranging when Googling this stuff... "Harvey bumper" and similar brought nothing up--or at least nothing on the first few pages...Lord only knows what was buried on page 27 or 72... "Harvey bumper design" brought up (on page 2 or 3) a patent from 1924 for a decorative bumper design (not yours) from Edward J Harvey, Racine, Wisc... Googling him brought up the bio of William J Harvey of the Harvey Spring Co of Racine, who had several children, one of which was Edward, involved in the Spring Co, which made high quality vehicle springs, and apparently bumpers, which, then, were often as much springs as bumpers.... You might even find a catalog on EBay; if not, autolit will have one, but it'll be too expensive...(joke)

If you have the pump off you can usually tell whether the diaphragm is working by holding the pump and working the arm--you should get some noise, altho can't recall now if wiper part made sucking/pumping noise or not. If arm doesn't move, and'd been sitting, arm may've rusted in upstroke position=no pumping. If setting a long time, diaphragm might've dried, cracked=no pumping. I believe replacement diaphragms were available for awhile--the originals didn't do well on the new fuels/fuel mixtures?? Look carefully for filters/screens that may be clogged; if diaphragm bad and no replacement, you should be able to make a new one--neoprene??--can't recall what used, and may require something newer now. Good luck.

XP: Was looking for something in a 1917 Burd ring catalog and by accident noted a Teetor-Hartley T-17 listed for 1917 with a 4 1/2 bore using 5 (five) 3/16 rings... I don't know if this's a misprint or not. I see in a 33 King list the T17 is listed as 4 ring 3/16 rings and the T18, T19 are listed as 5 ring 1/4 rings. I believe I emailed a copy of the 33 King list but don't, offhand, recall the Burd listing (had computer problems, lost some email copy folders). Bud

XP: Did I ever think to mention a T-H or Teetor engine in a tractor??? Per one of the tractor ref books, Lawter Tractor Co, originally of St Mary's, OH, and later Newcastle IN, in 1913 or so produced a Lawter tractor rated as a 20-40 with a "Teetor Motor Company" engine (no other engine info given per my notes). If you're not familiar with older tractor ratings that's 20 "drawbar" HP and 40 "PTO" (power takoff) HP. That same or another tractor ref showed Lawters for 1916 with a Wauk 4 3/4 x 6 1/4, rated as an 18-36; if that was actually the same tractor, de-rated with that large Wauk, the Teetor must either've been huge or the producers had an exaggerated impression of its power. Wauk engine ads for 1914 and 1916 listed Lawter as using Wauk engines, so the Teetor might've just been in a few early units, or possibly just in a prototype for a test. If you want to try to run this down the ref books I was using were: Wendel's Ency of Am'cn Farm Tractors (most likely); Std Cat Farm Tractors 1890-1960; I&TTractor History (??) Vol I (Implement & Tractor was a farm magazine). All should be in your local pub library. With sympathy, Bud.

With these Victor catalogs (and many other older gasket catalogs) bringing Godawful prices from the asbestos literature collectors, I wondered how long it'd be before someone started selling repro's; I should've guessed it'd be Walt Miller. I picked up a 30 Mccord by accident in a bulk purchase in 2005 or 2006, got a 38 Victor by a lucky hit before prices started going up (missed a second because I figured it'd go for $100 or so, then watched it go for $25 or so!!). Maybe I'll be able to afford one after Walt runs off a few thousand and drops the price...

Found the following listing in a 1950 Fitzgerald gasket catalog: "LA FAYETTE (SEE NASH) 4...........REFER LEROI 2C (FITZ NO. 96)". The "4" in this catalog would be 4cyl (correct for the 2C); the "refer" is used in this catalog when the vehicle has an "industrial" engine (Buda, Cont, Herc etc). The "96" is the correct head gskt for the 2C per it's listing in the LeRoi section of that catalog. This engine is NOT listed in the Nash engine section in that catalog. Std Cat shows Nash's LaFayette 1921-24 was only an 8, and would've been too large/heavy for the 2C; my catalogs show the resurrected LaFayette 1934 etc to've been all 6s. The several other LaFayetts mentioned were either too early or never in production. None of my catalogs show a 4cyl 31/8 under Nash. The LeRoi 2C was a highly popular Ag/Ind'l engine used in cars, trucks, tractors and all kinds of Ag/Ind'l installations; it doesn't show in a 1917 ring catalog but I have listings as early as 1915 models (Denby 3/4 Ton 1915-16). It was Wendels "...ever popular LeRoi..." mentioned in his Ency of US farm tractors. Does anyone here have a Nash history that mentions this or any LeRoi engine, or know if this engine was considered/used by Nash in anything??? Any comments appreciated; many thxx!!! Bud

If none of the above turn out, and they're considered obsolete, you might try donsbulbs.com. I know nothing about them or their prices, just seen them mentioned in other posts. Good luck.

Yes, the F227 was an update and did supercede the F226, and there was a connection made between Cont'l and Wisc, maybe during the Teledyne (conglomerates) years (buried somewhere in my notes, but not at hand). Cont'l was also famous (infamous??) for different designations for basically the same engine; someone said it started during the auto engine years, to ID engines going to different builders, but I don't know if that's correct. The TM engines on the wisconsinmotors website are actually Cont'ls, altho, like the Cont'l Renaults, could be originally foreign designs. I believe Cont'ls aircraft engine business now part of a Chinese Gov't or Chinese Military Cptn. Pleasant thought!!

Cont'ls F226 (F6226 in the truck version, F226 in Ag/Ind'l version and PF226 in free-standing power unit version) was one of Cont'ls highly popular F- series of 4s and 6s. They were used in everything for soup to nuts--Trucks, Ag, Ind'l, Comm'l equipment of all kinds, so they were well seasoned when Kaiser decided to use them.

Helfen: My apologies on the V1 and V2; not being a VW buff yours sailed right over my head. Von B just wanted to build rockets; he'd've worked for the Devil if the Devil provided funding (some think he did). Undoubtedly we stole their groundwork and experience; no program without them I feel is a stretch. Hard to tell what Goddard et al might've come up with if he'd've had the equivalent of Von B et al's funding. Our space failures weren't because we couldn't build reliably, but that we wouldn't; in our system, too many incentives to cut corners.

Helfen: (Sigh)--how time flies!! Seems just the other day I was following the war in Europe and the Pacific... Ahh, yes, the V1 and V2: poor Von Braun: "He aimed for the stars, but all he managed to hit was London".

Forgot to list that Std Cat shows: 1911 models A to D (models designate body styles) 4cyl 30HP; 1912 models F, G H 4cyl 40HP; 1912 models J to M 4cyl 30HP; 1913-14 model N-50 ("N" now covers four body styles) 6cyl 50HP; 1913-14 models 0-38 and P-40 "P" covers two body styles) 4cyl 40HP 1913-14 model X roadster 4cyl 44HP.

American-automobile.com says 1911 had 4cyl by Northway or Rutenber, but didn't say if uncertain which or both were options. Std Cat says 1911-14; for engines just says 4s, with a Rutenber 6 available in 1913. Says Alpena Flyer name just for 1911, thereafter just Alpena. A 1917 ring catalog lists: (1) All 1909/10/11/ models, and models J, K, L of 1912 with a 4cyl 4" bore using 3 1/4" width rings...no Northway or Rutenber in that section... (2) Models F, G, H, I of 1912 with a 41/8" bore using 3 1/4" rings...there's no Northway here either, but a Rutenber "38" matches... (3) Models N, O, P, Q for 1913---"N" is a 6cyl, "O"s cyl's omitted, "P" and "Q" are 4s; all four are in the 33/4" bore section, using 3 1/4" rings. No Northway or Rutenber in this section. HOWEVER, this catalog only shows one Northway for 1912-13 and seven others for 1916-17 (omitting most of the Alpena years). It also shows 6 Rutenbers, but for 1915-17 (the "38" is listed as1916). It's possible (probable?) that engine production for Alpena were simply not listed as Northways or Rutenbers.

Without Googling to make sure, I believe he also designed, or was involved in the design of the original VW.

If the unit isn't running try to convince her to spend enough to at least fire it up and see if it'll pull itself back and forth in the driveway... "sitting for 20 yrs", and not at least moving itself, will not bring very good offers. Also, this's not the best market to sell into; the problem being, of course, whether the market will get worse or slowly improve...

Looks like there was a "line" of "U" engines: U, UA, UAU, UU and UUB are on my list, apparently all 41/4 bore, but I have no stroke length. The U and UU show in a 1917 ring catalog with a 1915 date, using a ring size and number also used by several Garford trucks; d'you have a Garford model # for the military truck or whatever was supposed to use the UU?? My catalogs are poor before 1920; eyeballing some likely ones finds no UU listing, but it's possible they didn't list military stuff, and if the UU was the military version may've not carried parts for it. The UUB does show in a couple trucks 1917-21, so it's possible the UUB was a civilian version of the UU?? Oddly, a 36 catalog lists the UU in the Wisc engine section altho I find no UU listings in the makes sections; it had no UUB listing in makes or under Wisc engine. Under piston ass'bly it showed unique pistons for the UU, altho it shared valves with several other Wisc's and it shared rod bearings with the Wisc "B" (no mains listed) You might also try the WW1 vehicle collectors forums. Good luck.

Saw one sitting in a local shop here (NE Sandy Blvd, Portland, OR), probably last year, and haven't been back since; was partially under tarp, as I recall, and commented on it, but don't recall if shop owner said was his or not. What could see looked nice, but didn't really pay that much attention. Pass the place all the time, could inquire if you'd like. Bud

Which Wisconsin, the "Y" or the "Z"?? (Only checked a couple catalogs, they may've used more). There's a nicely illus "Wisc T-Head Restoration" thread on smokstak, but didn't check to see which Wisc...believe that party has the only Wisc water-cooled manual?? I've seen on EBay... If the "Z", check Cletrac.org; one of the early Cletracs used the Z and the ZT. If the "Y", they were in DuPont and McFarlan cars, both prestigious enough to have clubs...one catalog lists Brockway (believe there's a club) Indiana, Maccar, Oshkosh (not sure about clubs) and a few orphans... You might also try SuperJeff (Jeff L, who runs the "What Am I??" forum on aths---Guess what year/model truck in pic)--he has a monumental collection of truck pix, might also have engine pix...Good luck.

IS: Edwin A Rutenbur, notable early engine designer/m'f'r, sold his interest in the engine co, incl the right to use the name, in 1912; perhaps quality suffered when the original designer left... There's a museum website with a write-up on the Aussie Six; I believe it said once the bearing problem was fixed (heavier bearings installed, I think?) they gave good service; I don't recall that site mentioning breathing problems or having to convert to a 5 (national pride, perhaps)... Indiana truck was doing well in 1920 (4K prod per Mroz); buying an engine co probably seemed like a good idea at the time; they did use the 6 cyl models 38 and 40, at least, in 1924-25. I don't know why Roamer bought Rutenber; as you said, it seems illogical. I know nothing of Lycoming history; perhaps Roamers credit was shaky. It's also possible the "Canadian interests" mentioned in the Std Cat may've had plans (dreams?) to build a new engine or someone else's under license (and went poof!! in the crash), or that Indiana truck was selling assets to raise cash and sold cheap. LB: Neat drawing; any history re' when drawing made?? Where in the world did you find it??

Many thxx for help--I always feel stupid when I miss something like this; probably put too many words in instead of keeping it simple. Bud

There's a Wiki entry for Barley Motor Car Co that, among other things, talks about the Barley and the Roamer, and states that when Lycoming engines were no longer available Roamer bought the Rutenber Motor Co in 1926.... That write-up appears in at least one other site; I have no idea which copied the other... Various other sources state Rutenber was earlier bought by, or acquired by, or merged/consolidated into (sources differ on terminology) Indiana Truck Co/Cptn in or around 1920 or the early 20s... Does anyone here have any information as to whether Indiana might've in turn sold Rutenber to Roamer in 1926?? So far Googling hasn't picked up any connection, but I haven't searched exhaustively. Any comments appreciated!! Many thxx!! Bud