Bud Tierney

On the assumption you already follow the firetruck sites, a couple suggestions: Another gasket place might be gasketstogo.com; they're also a sponsor on smokstak, a popular old-engine old-iron site; (Olson's is highly regarded in these old engine forums)... The place to start for obsolete Cont'l engine hard parts, information, advice and/or sympathy (as the case my be) is often mentioned to be Garrad (Gerry/Jerry) Moon at Monte's in Chicago, obsolete Cont'l etc dealers; garradmoon@montes@flash.net, or montesequipment.com... Another place described as helpful with old Cont'ls is P A Ross Machinery, Dallas: parossmachinery.com

Should've thought to add that if you're reduced to convassing the profe$$ional obsolete engine parts dealers there's a good list on the Parts and services section of aths.org...

I thought I had a note from another forum to the extent that while the Seagrave was based on the PA block, some of the internals were different, BUT if i did have such a note, I can't find it...(please feel free to correct me if that is wrong)..... On a more positive note, I do have a note that on 12-15-11 someone here said Ray at Old Car Parts NW 206-300-1083 had Seagrave small V12 bearings...

The old shade-tree test for shocks was to push down on the front end, release, when it rose push down again to see if you could "bounce" the front end (not off the ground, just keep it easily going up and down on the rebound of the springs)---"shocks" are put on to "damp" (slow/stop) this "bouncing" effect, so you don't lose control after going over a hole or a lump and have the front wheels losing grip on the up-bounce (as has been already described above)... Don't be surprised if after cleaning out all the old grease and crud and freshly lubing the front end you don't have more problems, as our first choice cure for worn/sloppiness in the front end was to stop lubing it...old accumulated dried grease/crud can take up a surprising amount of wear....

Haven't had any luck posting pix, but will give it another try. Bud

Ron: My old parts catalogs are all over the map on which 31/4 Lyc came in the 8-126... I do have a smattering of Lyc piston ass'bly, valve and bearing info; if you've determined whether you have a whole Lyc, and, if so, which one, I can see if my catalogs list any other Lyc's sharing parts... Of five catalogs I eyeballed, only one listed the 8-126 engines as "own", which would imply Kissel added their own innards; the other four listed various Lyc 8's for parts reference as if Kissel bought the whole engine... It's also possible Kissel built their parts to the same specs as the Lyc parts, just using better material or machining, so stock Lyc parts could be used if Kissel's not available???

Rattling around in my junk jar (odds and ends I'm afraid to throw away) is this oddity...Octagonal (8 sides) "base", metal, crimped onto a round white ceramic about 3/8 long, to the "bottom?" of which is riveted a small 90 degree elec snapon/clipon connection... Going the other way is a 11/4 inch tall metal "tower", graduating down to 3/8 at its end, with what looks like SAE threads on the outside about 3/8 long...this part looks for all the world like an older inner tube valve with threads for the cap... Stamped into the metal "tower", which is hollow, are: "AC Spark Plug Div", and under that "4 Break", but stamped in a way that to read requires the "tower" part to be down, as if the 3/8 outside threads screwed into something, with the ceramic with its 90 degree elec connection "up"... There're no other threads anywhere on this thing...does anyone have an idea of what this thing is??? Any comments appreciated...dying of curiosity!!! Bud

Well, Republic was one of the better known old names, 1912-29, when they merged with the commercial division of Americsn LaFrance, becoming LaFrance-Republic (which was bought by the old Sterling in 1932, the LaFrance-Republic name continued to 1942) (all per Mroz's truck book)... Your local library should have a copy or a copy of Georgano's World Trucks book for some history; there should at least be a Wiki piece... For pix I'd Google Republic truck history, Republic truck images/pictures, or Republic Motor Truck Company and see what comes up; there's a site called Hank's truck pictures that's supposed to have a lot of pix, but I've never been in it. If you had a particular model in mind you might try Jeff L who runs the "What Am I?" forum on aths and/or justoldtrucks; he has a monumental collection of old truck books and pix. Posting on those sites, or on the old car/truck forum at smokstak might bring up pix; there're old ads on EBay but illus were often not pix but idealized illus. Mroz says in the mid 20s Republic had "several" models, eight in 1928 and 28 in 1929, when they merged with ALF.

One down, tire size to go...

Haven't been in site for a few days, just noticed your post... I started to say it could depend on which car its going into, but on checking it appears it may've been only used in Jordans (not usual for Cont'l but they made fewer 8s than 6s)... One would assume the Jordan people would be able to advise the exact shade, assuming it's going into a Jordan... If not a Jordan, would appreciate knowing what it came out of, if known...

I don't know anything about Kaisers ring gear system, but will say the engine is reportedly Cont'ls 226 (F6226, F226, probably PF226 ad nauseum). If so, and should no ring gear be available, and yours past repair, you might try Garrad Moon at Monte's Eqpmnt in Chicago, obsolete Cont'l parts dealers, to see if that ring gear system and your particular ring gear (number of teeth, degree slopes etc) was used on any of Cont'ls 226 truck, ag, ind'l, pu engines. garradmoon@montes@flash.net, or montesequipment.com

No mention of Derby in my stuff or the Std Cat US cars 'cuz the Derby was Canadian, or the Canadian name for the Davis. Oddly enough, it is in Auto Qtlys The Am'cn Car Since 1775 ("5000 Marques"), but that's just names and addresses. Wiki or somewhere said two Derby's exist; if one matches the Davis that used the 20L, chances are the Derby did, too, at least for that model--one of the Derby thumbnails said it used a Con't 6 cyl, which helps, but not much. With sympathy, bud

20L in trucks Acme--27-29/28-30+?(catalog years, if shown, often differ;30+ meant listed in 1930 catalog, so may've been used in later years) #16, maybe #17 1ton (one catalog showed 20L and 29L); Century-Defiance (usually listed as Defiance)--1928 #FL,F; Corbitt--probably 1926-27 #20 1ton; the 1928 seems to've gone to the 31L; Fisher--no yrs--Junior Express--9L, 20L, 31L; built 1912-33; King-Zeitler--1927 #22A--9L, 20L; 1928 went to 31L; Monarch--1928-29 no model#. This's a puzzle: it's listed in the 33 Perf Circ in the truck section, but none of my car and truck references list one of the period (late 20's). There was a Monarch tractor of the right period, but I don't show any Cont'l engine for it, and Cont'l engines in tractors were few and far between until later. If in a tractor, it'd be a lighter model. Standard--1927-31 #FJE--NOTE: Standard was also Fisher, apparently producing under both names for awhile. Stewart--probably 1926-27 #Buddy 3/4-1ton, shown as 9L, 14L, 20L United--probably 1928-32+? #16, C6, 16C 1ton (one catalog showed 20L, 29L). While I use these old catalogs for engine ID, it'd not unusual for catalogs to differ widely To complicate matters, some states "dated" trucks in the year they were licensed/registered, NOT the year they were produced. So if a truck sat on a dealer lot for a year or more, or if inventory was tied up in litigation or bkcy, actual production date would differ from the state title date in those states.

As usual, my old catalogs are inconsistent on the 20L...eyeballed five (1924 piston=no listings, too early??; 29 piston, 30 McC gasket, 30 wrist pins, 33 Perf circle rings)... For cars, 3 listed 20L for Davis, altho one listed 9L and 20L (many don't list years, so no way to tell if both engines available or if one engine replaced the other, altho, again, it's usually one replaced the other)... The 30 Pin also listed 1926-27 Paige 6-40 with the 20L, the Star 1926-27 "early L" and the 27-28 "late R" with the 20L. There were apparently some engine changes in the 20L--the 30 pin catalog, in its engine section, listed 9L, 14L, 18L and 20L "early type" and "late type"; a 36 King Prod (eng parts)catalog only lists those four engines to eng #92325. There were listings for nine trucks; will follow. Bud

Just noticed your post--if still looking (the "respectable price" part may be difficult) you might try sites like oldmarineengine etc, as many of these were gathered up by boat owners. Good luck.

Well, what the engine came in kinda depends on who you ask---in my case I use a batch of old replacement engine parts catalogs, and they often don't agree (I have a lot more sympathy now for parts people)...plus many "assembled" vehicle builders bought engines and called them their own. On a complete, relatively complete or even half complete listing on Cont'l engines and their specs, I'd like to find one myself. My own list, from my old parts catalogs, turned into a godawful nightmare of confusions, corrections and inconsistencies, presently bogged down and ignored. There was a book, something like "Continental And It's Engines", but I've not found one in my occasional lookings and probably couldn't afford it anyhow. Will eyeball some period catalogs and will advise what I find on the 20L.

Saw this the other day but forgot to comment. If haven't ID'd it yet, any cast/stamped numbers/letters on it? (might need to wire-brush to find any). If any, post pic and numbers to truck site like aths.org and/or abtiquetruckclubofamerica.com (small site but free). There's also an Antique Car and Truck forum on smokstak. Be sure to also post size of duals. Good luck. bud

Well, when my brother worked as a mechanic for a Pontiac dealer, they all had to go down to unload the new cars, as all too often some of the parts'd be in the back seat or trunk; some they had to truck to the dealers shop to "assemble"...maybe the Reo line was rushed and one dropped in and was just left... Seriously, sounds like a question for the Reo forum here or for the Reo club (reoclub.org??).

On the truck question, Georgano, one of the Gurus of truck history, has a small book of world truck builders (names/adds/years only) and a big book with world thumbnail histories; I have the little one, which lists: Comet, US...Comet Automobile Co, Decatur, IL 1916-25...AT (Ag tractor) and G (general goods hauler 1Ton rating and higher); Pan American, US...Pan American Motors Corp., Decatur, IL 1919-22...G His big book may have more info. For a more up to date check, a man in France is compiling another Ency of world truck builders, or at least an up to date list, using a monumental array of sources. I lost his name and emails in a computer meltdown, but he did at one time have a partial list on aths.org. If it doesn't come up in a search SuperJeff (Jeff L., who runs the What Am I?? forum on aths) will have his email adds; he's always happy to talk old truck history, and will as happily share anything he might have on these two. Good luck. HTH.

I can offer a possible item re' export...I have a batch of American Exporter magazines, published by the Johnson Export Publishing Co. Looking in the Sept 1920 Automobiles and Accessories section I find 13 in that issue, ranging from the well-known (Chandler with 30+ overseas distributors) to the Unwin Flyer, that Std Cat says never attained much, if any, production. Actually there seems to be at least twice as many trucks. So it appears export outlets were available where builders could advertise their wares, hoping for overseas contacts. Altho some names like Cleveland, Haynes, Stude, Stutz and Velie were there, Chandlers' was the only ad that actually listed overseas dealers. Mroz' Ency of Amer Trks says Comet produced a 11/2 Ton that a 1930 McCord catalog says had a Lycoming K engine, but neither gives dates. A 1924 Houpert piston catalog lists Comet 11/2Ton (no model #) 1918-23 (1923 is latest date shown for any make in that catalog, so later models may exist); that catalog shows a Lyc KB engine (the K and KB are same b/s). Mroz says Comet was liquidated 1923; I understand that in some states, a truck was "dated" the year it was registered/licensed, NOT the year it was actually built. Comet also built at least one tractor model, a 15-30 with an Erd TF engine, in 1919-20, per I&T's Tractor History Vol I 1916-25. (I&T=Implement & Tractor). Mroz has nothing on any Pan American, but that 24 catalog lists a Pan American 21/4 Ton for 1919 with a Buda HTU engine...none of my other older catalogs lists it, but I've fallen behind on indexing . The 1920 Power Wagon, a period trucking magazine, lists Pan American, Chicago, as the builder of a 2 Ton, in its builders lists for July, Aug, Sept, but no listing or specs appear in the specs pages for those months. There's no Oct list or specs, and Pan American is gone from the Nov list. Auto'ble Qtlys' Amcn Cars Since 1775, in its truck section, lists Pan American, Decatur, as truck prod reported but doubtful, or perhaps a few units on specia;l order or similar.

Book has no discernible date; has flyleaf listing sections in book, all showing copyright date 1910. Sections are Eng Aux'lrs--cooling, mufflers,starting, governing; Carbs; Elec Ign; Trans & Control--clutches, power transmission to driving wheels, steering, brakes; Bearings & Lubrication, and Tires--types, maintenance, deterioration, roadside and vulcanizing repairs. 51/2 x 81/2, 412 pgs plus 14 pgs questions and 12 pgs index. Covers badly worn but solid, small piece out of spine, about half interior pgs have minor water stain along top, all int pgs otherwise good cond, good heavy stock, wt over 2 lbs. No actual brand name components mentioned, and all this is too early for my experience, so I have no idea if this has any real value other than a curiosity. Price $10?? plus media mail mailing. Details Bud Tierney 503-281-8576 or email/PM thru site.

"...he has no pedal..."...D'you mean absolutely none??...drops to the floor, only resistance is return spring??...won't pump up any pedal at all?? In line with Pete's question, is any fluid missing, or is all fluid dumped?? Is this a conventional non power system where brake pedal works master cylinder, master cyl pressure activates wheel cyl systems, or does this have some AH idiosyncrasies of design or const'n??? Has complete master cyl been replaced?? Weird!!

Always happy to share whatever information I have.

John2: Actually, there was a serious farm depression in the 20s, which just continued into the 30s--WWI markets led to increased production, high debt levels for land, eqpmt; the bubble burst when the war ended, the increased prod and Europe growing crops again resulted in gluts, etc..

It seems to be a well documented engine in the sense that it's listed in numerous parts catalogs... My 38 Victor lists it for the 1926-27 Davis models 93 and 94, and under Cont'l lists it with 14 other "L"s that apparently share gaskets, except for two of the "L"s that take different head and manifold gaskets... My 36 King Products (engine parts) shows it as 23/4 bore, the 38 Vic says stroke 43/4 (that Victors batch of 15 "L"s shows two bore (23/4 and 27/8, not saying which "L" has which bore, but all 15 "L"s have 43/4 stroke). The 36 King says it only shares pistons with two other "L"s and a third "L" for part of its production...the others are shown with 27/8, so those were apparently built after bore change... I've been told Cont'l assigned different numbers to basically the same engine, the different numbers meaning different car builders, but that doesn't seem to match the 38 Victors list of 23 makes the 15 "L"s went into...