Power Steering Fluid Level

[Foxlovescars]

1965 Riviera with a 401. Just purchased this single family-owned car in very original condition. Power steering reservoir looked low so I added Dextron. The pump is now slinging fluid out the front of the unit onto the pulley which is now drenching the inner fender. I have continued to remove fluid past the level of where I originally added it and still have the slinging problem.

In reading the 1965 Buick Service Manual it states, "maintain level with Buick power steering fluid" but never tells you what that "level" is. Now, with a hot engine, the fluid level inside the reservoir is well below the rounded top of the pump casing itself.

So, my real question is, WHAT IS THE CORRECT FLUID LEVEL? How full is full?

Also as a side note, the cap is not leaking. I replaced the original cap (rusty) with a new one; then actually put the old one back on just in case the better seal was causing the leak...but no change.

Thanks in advance,

Frank O'Donnell

Charlottesville, VA

[Jim Cannon]

If the PS pump is slinging fluid out the front of the unit, then the shaft seal is probably bad and needs to be replaced. My '63 did that when it had about 85 k miles on it.

The seal is replaceable. Instructions in the shop manual. You do not need to get a rebuilt PS pump to correct this problem.

The shop manual mentions wrapping some brass shim stock around the threads of the shaft to protect the lip of the new seal as you slide it on. Not having any shim stock on hand, I used a wrap of masking tape over the threads and the seal slid right over the shaft. Lubricate the shaft liberally with fresh PS fluid, don't slide the seal on dry.

BTW, this PS fluid expands quite a bit with temperature. Check it hot. Don't top up when cold or it will be overfilled (similar to the transmission).

[Foxlovescars]

JIM:

Thanks for the quick response and informative answer. I'll order the rebuild kit and do everything at once while I have the unit off the car.

I still need the correct answer to "what IS the correct level" for the reservoir to be at with a warm engine. Can you help me with that one as well?

Thanks again,

Frank

[1965rivgs]

When you remove the cap and look down into the housing you will see a "rounded hump" which is the pump body. Fill enough to cover the pump body and you should be OK. As Jim has stated, do it when the fluid is up to operating temp.

Tom Mooney

P.S. I would clean things up a bit, adjust the fluid to the proper level, and double check the diagnosis. Is it possible the reservoir was overfilled and what appeared to be coming from the front of the pump was leaking down into that area past the cap?

[Foxlovescars]

TOM:

Thank you for responding. I did the smart thing last night and ran the car outside in the dark. I shined a flashlight on the front of the pump and could see the fluid shooting out from the front of the pulley shaft onto the pulley as it spun.

Rebuilding the power steering pump will be my next challenge.

Frank

[Jim Cannon]

You can rebuild the entire pump if you want, or you can just replace the shaft seal behind the pulley (if that's what's leaking).

[CheezeMan]

Mine was leaking too when I bought it originally. It had been leaking for a long time. There was significant build-up on the hood (quarter-inch thick in some places) and everywhere inside the engine compartment. The PO even had used the triangular glass bottle meant for washer concentrate, to keep extra PS fluid. Noticing all of this, I regularly added more fluid to keep it up, rather than bitting the bullet for a PS rebuild.

My mistake was doing the same that the PO did. Tom's suggestion is about right.

See, I forgot to add fluid for a while, then the leak just stopped! yeah, it was too much and the system was working as designed to vent out excess. Seems in most cases, any fluid in the car in excess will vent out somewhere until it reaches its normal level. So, just don't overfill anything. :eek:

[Foxlovescars]

Jim:

Decided to take your advice and only replace the shaft seal behind the pulley. Have now spent two days on and off trying to find a way to secure the pulley and turn the shaft nut counterclockwise to remove it. Tried vice grips attached to pulley perimeter forced against the bracket; only succeeded in bending the pully. A friend lent me his "master tight" tool that is a handle with an adjustable belt that fits on the pulley with a flat spot for leverage. Obviously I should have taken weight-training in college because the pulley still turns with the wrench.

Any ideas here before I just take the whole pump off and put it in a vice?

Frank

[RivNut]

Big a$$ed impact wrench or a really long cheater bar.

[Guest BobbyBubba]

Umm... Are you able to actually SEE the threaded end of the shaft? Are they LEFT-handed? What direction does the pump turn- in operation? An old V-belt, soaked in "belt dressing" (sticky), wrapped around pulley (sheave), then clamp belt on itself with Vise Grips- should hold any pulley- and give you an immobilizer. Sort of like the way a Chain-based pipe wrench works. Too bad about bent pulley- never be true again. Last resort- cut off with Dremel.

[Jim Cannon]

Jim:

Decided to take your advice and only replace the shaft seal behind the pulley. Have now spent two days on and off trying to find a way to secure the pulley and turn the shaft nut counterclockwise to remove it. Tried vice grips attached to pulley perimeter forced against the bracket; only succeeded in bending the pully. A friend lent me his "master tight" tool that is a handle with an adjustable belt that fits on the pulley with a flat spot for leverage. Obviously I should have taken weight-training in college because the pulley still turns with the wrench.

Any ideas here before I just take the whole pump off and put it in a vice?

Frank

With the PS pump still on the car, I wrapped a piece of nylon rope around the pulley, down in the groove, so that it tightened as I turned the nut to loosen it. Then I tied the other end of the rope off on something under the hood (waterpump, as I recall) and just turned the nut loose.

Do not clamp the PS pump in a vise. The outside shell that forms the reservoir is just stamped metal.

[63DreamMachine]

Attached is the fill level specification for the PS pump from the chassis manual.

[Seafoam65]

               On my car when  I fill the pump like the factory picture above my pump leaks. When I fill it as

Tom Mooney suggested it works great and doesn't leak at all.  Just put in enough to cover the hump.

[JanZverina]

I just went through this procedure of removing the power steering pump, and of course the pulley, on my '63. I tried cinching the belt with a strap but still had slippage. I soaked the pulley bolt with PB Blaster overnight and then heated it with a hair dryer. A long breaker bar and a bit of patience got the bolt turning. Mine is not a reverse thread, It's lefty loosey. 

[AMB]

What fluid do you use, power steering or automatic trans mission fluid.Thank you.

[telriv]

IF you have the pump off take it to just about ANY shop/repair or gas & they can zip it off for you in seconds.  IF someone had come into my shop I would have probably not charged for this. Using an air or electric impact will take about 5 seconds give or take.

 

Tom T.

[Jim Cannon]

8 hours ago, AMB said:

What fluid do you use, power steering or automatic trans mission fluid.Thank you.

ATF.

 

 

[Wayne R]

Another area  for leaks is the actual top lid,, over the years ive had  about  3 Buicks that leaked 

at the lid, you can usually  tell by the pressure when tightening the lid on,  should be  a slight firm

feel , not  loose and floppy, .

This is how its very easy to fix,  i obtained this rubber cork  gasket  sheet from Pep Boyes years ago,  can get 

1/16  and 1/8 inch thickness, i use the 1/16 inch , and you cut to the actual size require,  clean  degrease the cap ,

apply  small amount contact  adhesive, most times dont  require any glue ,as its held on by the 2 tungs under the lid,

and you dont remove the old gasket, just place the new one on top.

work marvelous.

[RivNut]

23 minutes ago, Wayne R said:

Another area  for leaks is the actual top lid,, over the years ive had  about  3 Buicks that leaked 

at the lid, you can usually  tell by the pressure when tightening the lid on,  should be  a slight firm

feel , not  loose and floppy, .

This is how its very easy to fix,  i obtained this rubber cork  gasket  sheet from Pep Boyes years ago,  can get 

1/16  and 1/8 inch thickness, i use the 1/16 inch , and you cut to the actual size require,  clean  degrease the cap ,

apply  small amount contact  adhesive, most times dont  require any glue ,as its held on by the 2 tungs under the lid,

and you dont remove the old gasket, just place the new one on top.

work marvelous.

Looks like you have your POS battery cable connected to the post closest to the hood and fender.  

[Wayne R]

Ed  you are correct ,  was like that when it arrived, so i replaced crappy leads , and 

connections,  but did not do my home work and check , as i sold my Riviera about  4-5 years ago,

and i just looked up a photo ,and it was the same, after  all those years ,i have forgot , as i owned a 

-65-66-67-73  riviera, 2 electras, 3 skylarks.--- this is a 64 Electra.

Thanks for noticing that,   and putting  right.

left to right photos--when i received it--ex  riviera--Electra now.

[RivNut]

I learned the hard way. Hit a pothole and apparently the battery hold down didn’t hold down the battery. Positive post hit the bottom of the hood and a major sort shot through the entire harness. Luckily I had an aftermarket amp meter that took the entire charge and blew. By blowing it probably saved the car from a major fire.  There is a service bulletin that suggest running the positive cable between the battery and the hood down bolt.  The service bulletin was written to keep the positive wire from rubbing against the bell of the larger of the two note horns.

[Wayne R]

Hello Ed,---sorry to bring this up again, but i was going through my  service manual looking at 

wiring for my windscreen wiper---washers  have no power to that area, and i notice this,

You are partly correct ---re---the battery cable  connections on our  cars.

Photo page 10-140 Riviera positive cable connected  like you said   to inside post

Photo page  10-134 Electra  positive cable connected  to  outside  post.

so like i said my original 65 Riviera i owned  was  connected wrong.

thought  i would let you know, incase other Electra owners started changing them back,  regards.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Wayne R (see edit history)

[telriv]

Since the hood on an Electra was kinda flat going forward the + cable could be mounted to the outer post as there is plenty of clearance. Where the Riv. falls short is that the Riv. hood sloops down as it goes forward which CAN make contact with the hood.

 

Tom T.