"Hot Rods Anyone?"

[R W Burgess]

Got my attention too. That is when the June, 05 Street Rodder magazine came in today. We already know about Bill Smith receiving his Meguiar's Hobbyist of the Year Award. I first learned this in my AutoWeek mag.

Now, Street Rodder has a nice editorial concerning Bill and the AACA. They even compare our 60,000 members with the 57,000 members of the National Hot Rod Association, and the 60,000 of the Goodguys group. The editorial goes on to speak of Bill's push for the AACA Museum and his involvement in other industries like the Automotive Restoration Marketing Organization. Way to go, Bill.

But, you say, "How can a Rodding organization have any influence on the AACA?" Hey, publicity is publicity, right? It can't hurt to have our name circulated around in a major magazine as others learn what we have to offer. I even mentioned to an AACA official just today that we may be more involved with the rodders of America in the future then we could ever believe today....my message for today! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pass the Word!

Wayne

[nearchoclatetown]

Wayne, I like hotrods and defend the right to build them as much as anyone, but I didn't like Thom Taylor's editorial in the May issue. He stepped over the line begging anyone to cut up a Deusey or Cord or Packard and send him pictures.

[Steve Moskowitz]

.....and that is what it is all about. Preserving and not destroying! There are too many remanufactured bodies, parts, custom building etc. along with cars no one else wants to use for a basis of a street rod or hot rod then to destroy a rare car. I have not read the article but it sounds like it is an extremist position and certainly something that goes against AACA's reason for being. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

[R W Burgess]

Doug, The Taylor article was over the border. I'm surprised someone hasn't written back to the magazine chastizing him for that piece. Most rodders don't have that mindset, destroying very rare antiques.

And, you're right Steve. That's not what we are about. We do need to pay attention to those young people that follow that crowd. You never know when you might intice them to check us out.

THIS post was not about HOTRODS, so let's not go there. The post title was just a play on words...made you look!!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> My whole idea was that it was good to have Bill Smith's name now recognized all over the country in a different format. It can only do us good to put on our best face in circumstances like this and promote the love we have for antique cars, all antique cars.

Congratutions Bill, and thanks for carrying us to this plateau. Wayne

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Most rodders don't have that mindset, destroying very rare antiques. </div></div>

Certainly not, but there's definitely more than enough who do!

Frankly I wouldn't expect if they get a letter complaining that it'd be published. Which group do you think they'd least like to offend, <span style="font-style: italic">us</span> or the likely subscribers who made these cars?

<span style="font-style: italic">(I've said my piece on that subject enough here, but I couldn't let this reference pass. Sorry Wayne!)</span>

[R W Burgess]

That's fine Dave. I saw you searching your old posts, so I expected it. One picture to make a point is fine. As far as those letters go, it only takes one to start an avalanche. I think that's how this country got started, wasn't it?

Let's get away from this subject before it ends up in the basement, and Bill misses the comments.

Wayne

[nearchoclatetown]

Sorry I started anything,Wayne, back to the topic. I bought the new issue tonight and did like the article complimenting Bill for his accomplishments. Does anyone know when the awards ceremony will be televised?

[1937hd45]

Thanks Wayne, I just picked up my June issue of Street Rodder yesterday at Barnes & Noble. Brian Brennan did a fine job of discribing what The Meguiar's Car Hobbyist of the Year is all about, I would hope the AACA membership is given the same information, so they know what Bill Smith has done over the last 17 years. I've been walking the fence on restored vs. rodded since 1961, and most of the people I know have cars in both corrals. We have far more in common than we have differances with.

[novaman]

We have a guy here locally that has a Hudson Terraplane street rod. First impression of most antique cars guys is "why destroy it making a rod?" After you talk to him a while you'll find that although the car is a rod, sitting home in the garage is all the orginal parts for it and the modifications made were done with the idea of the car could be restored one day if desired.

Personaly that is the way to do it if your using something on the rarer side or use something that is basicaly just a shell to being with.

[Twitch]

Why Wayne, I do declare! Your perusing a hot rod publication is just shocking! I believe I have the vapors. I feel faint!

As I've noted before in the 1950-60s no one but a handfull of museum guys were attempting to conserve old cars. Most of the iron out there would have been scrapped if it weren't for rodders. Their interest stimulated owners of "old cars" to keep them, stock, in their garage for a few more decades since they knew someone would probably want their "old car" someday. And hot rodding then usually meant almost no physical changes to the car. A kid might put Dodge Lancer hubcaps on his 40 Ford along with 3 dueces.

BTW- 100% original 1932-40 vehicles could be bought for under $250 into the mid 1960s. I saw many. Know what? Nobody wanted them. People wanted new cars then. Why drive a 40 Ford when the 1960 Pontiac was affordable? The collector market was miniscule then. There was no status in driving a creaky 20 year old car. A premium used car dealer near my home offered lots of Ferraris, Facel Vegas, Maseratis and other exotics plus things like Cords, Auburns, old Mercedes, Packards and more. These original cars sat on the lot forever and none was even priced high. A Cord for $2500 and no one cared then.

And yes we all are thinking the same thing- time machine or "wish Idda known then what I know now."

[A. Woolf]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">As I've noted before in the 1950-60s no one but a handfull of museum guys were attempting to conserve old cars. Most of the iron out there would have been scrapped if it weren't for rodders. Their interest stimulated owners of "old cars" to keep them, stock, in their garage for a few more decades since they knew someone would probably want their "old car" someday. </div></div>

Twitch if I understand your quote properly it is far from correct. There were many cars being restored in the late 50's and early 60's. And not just pristine original examples nor just by museum conservators. I saw more than one basket case restored and several well restored by their non professional hobbyist owners.

As for rodders saving cars that is a bit of a stretch. One of the biggest groups of cars saved from the WW2 scrap drives was done by Barney Pollard who was a general contractor in Michigan. A friend of mine is currently restoring one of those cars that he saved. So many 1932 Fords have been rodded there are few unmodified unrestored examples remaining.

Other than demonstrating some level of unique craftsmanship and providing economy of scale for some repro parts production I am not sure what hot rodding has accomplished for the old car hobby.

Alan

[D Binger]

Alan,

I agree with you about restoration of basket cases in the late 50'sand early 60's. My father and I did a 22 Buick that was a hay rake when we started. See attached photo. I know of several fiends that did simialiar projects. We also did a Model A roadster in the erly 60's.

Dan

[D Binger]

Second picture

Attached picture is what we ended up with. We learned a lot doing this car. We do not have to have some body shop do the body work or paint. We learned how to do upholestry.

Dan

[Guest sixpack2639]

Nice job Dan. Carl

[ex98thdrill]

Good save Dan. I'm not so sure that I would've tackled it. Those pictures go along with the point that I've argued that it is harder to restore a car back to the way it was, then to make a street rod into what you want it to be. Judging by your pictures, I'd say that it took a lot more patience, dedication and talent to turn that car back into what it was than to build a street rod.

[Twitch]

I acknowledge that there were a few folks beyond museums refurbishing old cars. There was a place that specialized in Auburns and Cords- can't find the article right now. But as for shops specializing in "restoring" 1935 average cars in 1960, they were so few as to be non-existant. In 1960, for example, only a kid or a weirdo with a bow tie drove a 25-year-old or older "anythingmoblie." In 1960 there was no discresionary income for 2nd or 3rd "hobby" cars for the average wage earner. Those that did have a project car took a long time to finish since it was get a few bucks, do a little work. That's where the rat rod image was born in unfinished old project cars, usually owned by kids, being driven around in primer or gutted interiors.

Since it's impossible, or at least frivilous, to project today's values some 45 years ago about how folks shoulda been conserving cars, we acknowledge that most did to them what was the norm at the time. If that was to drop a chromed up 292CID into a 36 Ford than so be it. We can't go back and change things.

The 1950-60s general public did not posess the nostalgic feelings for 1930s cars. Hell, most of them struggled through the Depression and didn't want reminders about it like owning a 37 Chevy that they couldn't have afforded when it was new. My Grandma told me how they got rid of their old 30-something Pontiac even though it meant tough payments on a newer Ford since it was a relic of hard times.

We look at our collector cars today and realize they have no value other than what someone is willing to pay. If there was no allure of "old cars" by the general public today we'd be like the 50s-60s, a few oddballs messing with derelict autos. Today there are realtively more people interested to some degree in antique autos than in 1960. People with a very slight interest but with $$$ are a driving force. You don't need to be a hardcore old car fanatic to be able to own one. There are folks that opened the checkbook and own a 56 DeSoto who are not walking encyclopedias on Mopar and can tell you how they reamed out wheel cylinders and such.

It's a simple supply and demand econnomic at work. If an interest exists in the buying public there will be people willing to meet that demand and make a profit. In, say, 1960 that didn't exist in the scale it does today.

In 1960 nothing said you'd "arrived" at the American nirvana more than a new Olds 88, Buick Century or Pontiac Bonneville. Why on earth would you choose to drive around screaming "I'm a poor boy or eccentric" in a 1935 Plymouth? The few that did were ahead of their time in old car conservation. The kids drove old cars cause that's all they could afford. And since they didn't want to look like poor boy losers they modified them so they would be unique and cool.

The average city family kept cars like only 3-4 years back then. The driving force of auto manufacturers'ads was to "keep up with the Jones." About the oldest car you saw in any major metropolitan city was 10 years old. Rarely did you see a 25 year-old+ car pristine or otherwise.

If one wanted a 32-37 Ford today it would be challenging for the non-hardcore guy to build one out of modern repro parts topped off by a glass body.

The fact that few stock 32 Fords or anything else remain actually is a good thing since it drives value up for those who own them. It makes more sense to pay $100,000 for one of those than it does to pay $250,000 for a 69 Hemicuda!

[EdA]

Twitch,

Well, I guess I was both "kid and weirdo" in the 1960s. Drove a 1939 La Salle Model 60 sedan from 1962 to 1968 in high school and college in San Diego. Kept it pretty original except for paint and interior. Other guys tended to "laugh" and head for their 57 Fords, but girls and their dads loved it. Every time I'd pick up a date, I'd have "dad's approval" it seemed. And they'd all tell me about their first "bought new car", usually of that same vintage. Paid $300 for it in 1962 from orginal owner, and sold it in 1968 for $300 - to a restorer who put it back to original condition in every detail. I expect it is still running and showing at AACA shows - wish I could find old record with serial number so I could see it again some day. So this "kid and weirdo" did his part to save it from the "hotrod gang."

Ed

[R W Burgess]

I know my next statements will kill this thread, but so be it. It took Fran Shore's comments on another post for me to realize what's happening. I'd like this thread to continue to be about Bill Smith and not about hot rods. I realize I opened that door when I posted the first caption. I also realize that some of the newer users here don't realize that we beat this "hot rod" subject to death some years ago, just use the "search" fellows in the formerly "rants and raves" section, read it, and bring it back up if you like.

I have had Bill Smith contacted about this post and everything he has done to get recognition in a major rodding magazine. I would think him coming on here and telling us what he thinks about all of these changes in the AACA would be something special. I don't think, if he was so inclined, he'd jump in the middle of a hot rod discussion. Thank you Fran for waking me up. Wayne

[1937hd45]

Wayne, Bill Smith told me years ago that he drag raced a 1937 Ford, don't know what it had for power.

[Paul Dobbin]

I too was glad to see Bill Smith got reconition by the NSRA

bunch. I first met him on the Great American Race and renewed

our aquaintence for several races.

I'm a member too of both AACA & NSRA. I can honestly

report I don't agree with with ALL automotive taste in either

club, but that's what made Baskins Robbins so good. (the hobby too)

I've been an "antiquer" for for 35 years but in especially hot

Florida summmers I long for A/C and my wife likes automatic

transmissions. So mixed in the restorations have been a few

"Resto-Rods", which I define as stock bodied Pre-WW II cars with

modern comforts hidden from immediate view.

At least 99% of the public see's a restored automobile just

like the one they wish they had. I also know that most

"Restored" cars are better and more "Deluxe" than original

so I say, "build it to suit you, your heirs are going to sell

it off anyway". Enjoy the car whichever way makes you feel

good.

[A. Woolf]

Twitch,

I am curious where you grew up and your age. Your thoughts about the car hobby of the 50s and early 60s are completely at odds with anything I know about. I grew up in the South and there was a lot of old car restoration going on during that time. In fact there was more at that time than there is today. The AACA had several strong and growing regions. Most of the people I knew that were restoring cars were not professionals. The hobby was very much coming up from grass roots support. The 50,000 member AACA of today is a product of a strong interest in the old car movement that was grew rapidly after WW2 and matured in the 50s and 60s.

ASW

[1937hd45]

I agree, the 1950's were the best years to be in this hobby in my opinion. Not too many people were restoring cars from the 1930's they were busy restoring the BEST of the Brass Era. If anyone needs proof get a stack of old AACA, HCCA or VMCCA magazines.

[Twitch]

Hey I don't want to argue with anyone at all. I'm just stating the retrospect of the time I grew up in compared to today- a trip dowm memory lane. I grew up in St. Louis and went to Chicago regualrly to visit relatives and to California almost yearly. I am 57, born in '48. In St. Louis/Chicago of the mid-50s you did not see cars of 1920-30s on the streets except maybe in a parade. There were almost no daily drivers from the 30s taking folks to work in the 50s there. These were impressionable times, my budding auto-interest years so I remember them vivedly. I build AMT 1/25th scale model cars and was real familiar with older cars through them. By the 60s we'd see like a 39 Merc or 40 Ford for sale, stock, usually owned by a young guy and not a middle-ager at like $250 max. A perfect, original 49 Merc I saw was $400. A 39 Packard touring car in swell condition was $375. All kids liked old cars because they seemed obtainable in monetary terms. In 1957, for example, we did not see old, 30s-40s, cars on the streets in daily use. People want NEW. The times were filled with media excitment about the new model year cars. There were no widely circulated publications about old cars. Motor Trend, Hot Rod and such were a whole different thing catering to completely different enthusiasts. There certainly was no internet.

In South St. Louis over the many square blocks of our general neighborhood there were almost no old cars you might even call projects cars. Of course there were some in town but today in my town I walk a 6 sqaure block area and see a couple dozen or more!!! 2 guys alone, 3 houses apart have 7 cars from a 41 Cad to a 69 Pontiac. I see a 57 Ford, 56 Merc, 57 Chevy, 64 Galaxie, 66 Buick, 54 Chevy several 60s Mustangs & on & on! Proportionately or equally in the 50s-60s of St. Louis/Chicago there was nothing like this! There were no dozens of 40-50 year old cars meaning 1910-1935 cars! If anyone saw lots of 1920s cars outside of "The Untouchables" on TV I'd like to know what city they were in. But perhaps my neighborhood was unique in the 50-60s as is my current on in 2005. I really don't know.

I base some of my views on car magazines of the era. I have almost every one that was published from roughly 1950-1975. I used to work for Bond Publishing- Road & Track- and inherited most when they threw them out to go compact with microfische!

There was lots of modifying going on or there wouldn't have been so many magazines devoted to covering it all. Since there was no internet if you had a 1922 Maxwell in 1955 you were isolated. If you lived in a big city you could probably get connected with "old car" guys that shared your interests but what if you needed a certain rare part? Advertise a "wanted" in Hot Rod or Motor Trend cause there was no way to find the owner of the part you needed 1,800 miles away. THAT"S whay so many old cars survived- they were garaged and forgotten about due to lack of something to keep them running. There were speed shops like the Chicago Granatellis in bigger cities. There weren't classic car retail shops.

In the 60s high school kids considered 2 dr. hardtops the only car worth having but begrudgingly took a 2 dr. sedan if it had a big motor. I'll bet that 39 LaSalle stayed stock only because the money wasn't at hand to drop a 283 in it! Though I thought about keeping that 49 Merc 100% stock if I coulda bought it! That's what young people did in the places I went. They modified and tuned their cars. Sure we'd see and occassional car like a clean 37 Buick, knew what it was, and said, "cool," but cars like 33, 40 or 50 Fords were plentiful, cheap, light and lent themselves to any engine swap you could afford. Relative to the times, old cars were cheap and there were lots of them and no one was fantisizing about future conservation of anything.

Guys in my high school '62-66 mostly had '55-64 cars with 348, 327s, 371, 394, 409s, 360s, 390s, 427s. These were cars with power to GO! There were no 17-25 year olds restoring old cars to original condition. Anyone that did have an oldie with a weak original mill had dreams of swapping it out as they made some money. All I thought about was how fast my 57 Olds could run at the time.

When 20-30s cars were "found" they often had so much rust throughout that restoration was out of the question for most. Fenders were usually gone with rust so hot rod style roadsters didn't need them anyhow. The only way to fix rusty cars then was a lot of lead. Very few folks could weld repair panels in and bondo as we knew it was junky.

I suspect the South had a greater interest in refined, older, gracious things from the past compared to Northern cities. That's why so many lovely old houses and buildings were saved years ago and cars probably found a niche there too. No one in northern cities cared a hoot about old buildings' heritages. There were no architectural preservation movements compared to now.

Today "old car guys" are still a tiny minority no matter how much communication and publications have changed or modernized. The movement is relatively larger though. But from my personal experience people that bought old cars to modify, or "hor rod" if you will, certainly far and away outnumbered those seeking to do 100% original restorations.

Again, from the sociological point of view people in 1958 that owned a 1951 model, no matter how nicely kept, were seen as losers cause they couldn't afford new cars. There was a social stigma of failure by not keeping up with the Jonses. I literally recall adult conversations about so and so's "old wreck," which may have been a real clean 48 Nash pea-green fastback. I was raised by my Mom and Grandma often with one income and we had a 52 Ford, 54 Merc, and 59 Ford in the 1950s. Cars 3 years old on average and that was the norm in my world.

Today we see Boyd Coddington's crew building a 56 Chevy that is only original in some body parts. All else is modern, new stuff. They didn't rape someones treasure waiting to be discovering in a junk yard. Even their pros had many problems fitting body aprts from 2 56s. Think if an average guy was dreaming about "restoring" a junked 56. Never happen. These junk cars are going to disintegrate and there won't even be usable body panels.

This all got me to thinking about the old timey car swamp coolers of the 50s that used water and ram air to cool- think I'll track on down!

I'd like if someone else would reminisce about their old days just for fun too. There's gotta be lots of good stories out there.