How to Not attract younger members

[imported_buick5563]

About two years ago I dropped out of the local AACA club here in Austin. Ya see, I'm 36 years old and I wanted to pick the brains of the more experienced hobbyists who had more years of automotive knowledge than I had of breathing. After attending a years worth of meetings, I realized that NOBODY talked about cars. I fear this is where we are heading. I have had to bite my tongue recently with all of the bickering and name calling going on in this forum. Please stop with the politics. Any time my wife hears that I hung out with my best friend in the BCA she always whistles the "Odd Couple" theme. But we talk about Buicks (and sometimes beer). If you want to talk politics and call somebody a "yellow dog" anything, get on Rush Limbaugh's website or NPR's website, Hell, if you really need to start a fight, sign up for Jerry Springer's show.

Nobody is going to change anybody's mind about religion or politics and it is extremely irritating to have to wade through all of this BS when I want to read about stuff to take my mind OFF real life. About cars. Remember, it's why we joined.....

Mike Middleton

15 year member BCA

lone wolf, no club?

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Amen, Brother Mike

[Centurion]

It's an excellent point, Mike, and I appreciate the admonition.

Back to the vintage Buicks . . .!

[Charles2]

I agree. I've been a member of three different local car clubs now and none of them were about cars; the cars just provided something around which to organize social activities. My interest in clubs was to have access to technical experience and to talk about cars not politics. I now get the info I need from forums such as this one and have no involvement with local car clubs. I am not being critical of the clubs but just wish the membership of the clubs I have had experience with were more interested in the technical side of the hobby.

[NTX5467]

Great points, Mike! It's my orientation that we should all be on this earth to enhance the quality of life of the whole situation (I used to say "help each other have a good life", but that's been modified a little). This is a valid orientation until peoples' egoes might get involved, or they use their orientations to "validate" their existence.

Yet, whenever a group of people get together, somebody will very probably try to identify and pigeonhole various others of that group into certain divisions "He or she seems to like what I might", "He is a/an _______", or "We just don't get along". This is perfectly normal in human nature as we try to determine "friends and enemies" in any group. All of this for people that might have a common interest in the first place!

Another issue that can come into play in automotive groups is the "dirt under the finger nails factor". By observation, the automotive enthusiasts of certain brands of vehicles will typically have great knowledge of their vehicles' mechanicals and designs (as they've actually worked on them) than others (who typically let somebody else work on them, as they might be better able to afford it or they might lack expertise or desire to do same). There can also be both of these orientations in one particular car club too! So, for the younger member coming into the group, who is seeking knowledge and possible mentoring in various areas, finding the people with the "real knowledge" is a quest of sorts.

I mention "real knowledge" I have seen people that were alleged to have real knowledge, when all they had was "book knowledge". The distinction in those two knowledges can be narrowed greatly if the book the knowledge came from were "credible" in all respects--which can be a highly variable situation, sometimes, but if the book had incorrectnesses in it, the the perception of "accuracy" can become a significant issue in a "correct" restoration.

The "dirt" factor comes into play in this mix too. Those who like and can do their own work (and also manually chase parts in the salvage yards) can find lots of parts differences where it might be perceived there would be little or no difference. Plus knowing which mechanic/technician does correct or good work compared to those that claim they do. Put the "book knowledge" person with a mechanic that "claims" they will do the work to factory specs, and it can be an accident waiting to happen--with the vehicle being the ultimate loser (botched repairs, etc.). Many of that combination of factors might not be readily apparent, unless the final work is inspected . . . or when it might fail later . . . or when the vehicle is trying to be sold and the potential buyer (who knows what they are looking at) finds out just what has been done to the vehicle.

In any social group, there will be those that get along, those that do not, and those that are somewhere in the middle. Yet ALL of them can possibly possess accurate and credible information for those that seek it. Only thing is to look for a consensus rather than "fact" up front. Once really credible information sources are located (human and printed), that should narrow the search of where to find information on certain subjects (or even referrals of where to find the information). Sometimes, this can take a few years as friendships are made and credibility levels are established. Other times, the "vibes" (not Pontiacs) are that club members are more interested in social things than cars, but this is not completely bad either--priorities can change as WE age too. Still, as a younger person (in prior times), I always liked to listen to older people talk about things--even cars they had in THEIR earlier times.

One of the few things we get out of this life with are our memories. Each of us might well have some memories worth passing on to others in order to help them achieve their goals in life (or with cars! or other hobby) pursuits. Many are qualified to mentor others who might have different or "not yet" experiences too. Many car club/BCA chapter members have a wealth of knowledge in many diverse automotive areas . . . the kind of wealth that can pay dividends when shared with others and also in their own personal automotive pursuits.

In the case of larger social groups (from which I might gain knowledge from the collective membership), I might go into the "tolerance" mode so that I can increase my total informational database, initially. I might not like them personally, or agree with the way they do things, but if there's any information to be gleaned from their expertise, that can be a good thing OR it might lead to a later discovery of something that will have the ultimate answer to a question. I also know that just because somebody is a member of a car club does not necessarily mean that what they might say is "gospel", but when you hear the same things from a diverse group of people, there's a really good possibility that what you are hearing has a good deal of truth in it. Unfortunately, these things don't happen in a short timeframe.

As with other things, it's about the "network" each enthusiast migth build for themselves. THAT's where the comfort level of things will usually end up, eventually. Whether it's the BCA, AACA, VCMA, local chapters thereof, or a local "lone wolf" car club, the enthusiast needs to be with other indivduals that are generally a "good fit" with them and what they might be trying to accomplish (or be variable conniseurs of). THIS is what makes things fun and worthwhile--which has been observed to be a highly variable situation too (even within the ranks of enthusiasts that have similar interests).

So . . . everybody participate at the upper tolerance levels of enjoyment in the automotive hobby (which can also relate to available funding tolerance levels too!). Share credible knowledge when possible too, but don't "preach" either.

If many might recall, when we were younger, we always tended to focus on an older person that we liked and sought their trusted judgment. As we progress, WE are now that older person (in many respects). Please act accordingly for the mutual benefit of our lives and the future of the automotive hobby.

Sometimes, "odd couples" can be beneficial.

The bluebonnets and Texas Wildflowers are bloomin' and now I'd better go see them!

Happy Motoring!

NTX5467

[Guest imported_Thriller]

I hear ya Mike. I'll be 36 shortly myself and have been a member of local clubs for a bit over 10 years (with 6 spent on executive of these groups) and am tiring of them. I joined the BCA to participate with the Centennial and to be able to actually get technical information regarding Buicks. I now feel more affinity with the Gopher State Chapter (about 8 hours drive depending on the border crossing) and I've yet to be able to attend a meeting or event with them yet (although I have corresponded with a couple of members) than I do with my local club.

It's nice to know I'm not the only one in the same boat.

[BigFella]

here here, well said.

I'm 37 and belong to the local chapter in San Diego. There seems to be alot of focus on activities that draw away from opportunities to share information. Our club is currently trying to put together a yearly event picnic style where there would be Buicks and the opportunity for talking and discussions about the Buicks! Drive your Buick to the event, setup and just have a nice day with all the fellow Buick folks! No judging, no prizes, not many spectators, just people and their Buicks!

btw, the local GS and GN chapters around SoCal still hold tech events like a Carb setup meeting or a transmission shop event. Very knowledgable folks in this area step up and host these events for the clubs, it's very nice.

My recommendation, don't get down on the clubs for not doing certain events, get involved more in your clubs and help set them up! Our generation is next in line to run the clubs so we should be getting our feet wet now so all this information can be shared not only now, but in the future as well!

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> After attending a years worth of meetings, I realized that NOBODY talked about cars. </div></div>

This happens naturally over time. The fact of the matter is that the things I needed to learn about my cars I learned by talking to members of local cars when I joined years ago. Expecting people who discussed proper painting techniques and reflector resilvering in 1986 to do it again over and over of their own volition is pretty unrealistic.

However, those of us with information to share are more than happy to answer any question we get. Or at least we <span style="font-style: italic">darn</span> well better be! If people in your local club do not respond to inquiries new people make then they simply don't belong there. Hopefully the occasional "tech session" is scheduled, which can be within or outside of meetings or a feature in local newsletters. Beyond this you really have to ask to get answers.

As regards to the political overtones of the recent gas price conversations here, they're unavoidable. The fact of the matter is that our cars function at the mercy of the oil industry, which for better or worse has staunchly aligned itself with one side of our (American) political dichotomy. It's just part of our growing polarization. When something doesn't reflect well on "their side", people get upset and react badly. It's just something that happens.

[imported_buick5563]

Thank you gentlemen for your civility. I wasn't intending on starting a rant about/ against clubs. I also was not trying to make everyone see eye to eye. The world would truly be a boring place if their weren't "Odd Couples". I think it's healthy to disagree, it's what our country was founded on: "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend 'til the death your right to say it". But name-calling is just childish.

NTX, I agree that there are restorers (doers) and restorers (payers) and I don't hold anything against the latter. In the interest of time (in order to try to get my 55 ready for Batavia) I'm farming out more than I would ideally like to. Admittedly, when my son was born nearly two years ago, my priorities changed. Restoring a car all by myself became an unrealistic goal (to me). I wanted to drive it, not wait five years, when who knows what my situation will be.

Another thing regarding the younger member comment. If you guys notice the younger guys aren't "youth". Bigfella and Thriller and I are all in our mid thirties. I think we should be aiming at this age bracket instead of trying to get teenagers (plus or minus) involved as "The Future". At this age, we have (allegedly) got real jobs, a house, a wife (hopefully an understanding and supportive one), and perhaps for the first time, at least in my case, some disposable income. I've been a member since I was twenty-one and I'm just now getting around to fixing my car up, I guess that's my point. Not that I don't want Adam in the club.

Of course I realize that these are social clubs and it took me a long time to FEEL like I fit in. Not that they (you) weren't welcoming. I also realize that you have to ask if you have questions. I feel extremely fortunate that I have found good friends and one of the best mentors you could ask for in the BCA.

Oh and by the way, yesterday in Salado Texas, at an informal regional show, we heard a 66 Skylark fire for the first time ever. Then we bled the brakes (semi-successfully) and the owner drove a victory lap around the parking lot. It was a good car day.

Good evening...

Mike

[The Old Guy]

In our chapter of the BCA, we have a"technical advisor" .Anyone that needs help can ask him,and if he doesn't know the answer, he usually knows who to ask for help. This has worked well for us.

[Guest my3buicks]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">In our chapter of the BCA, we have a"technical advisor" .Anyone that needs help can ask him,and if he doesn't know the answer, he usually knows who to ask for help. This has worked well for us. </div></div>

And one step further Joe, we can't forget the BCA has the Technical Advisors that cover almost anything you would ever need to know about a Buick. I'm sure you have been called more than once.

[Guest imported_Thriller]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Bigfella and Thriller and I are all in our mid thirties. I think we should be aiming at this age bracket instead of trying to get teenagers (plus or minus) involved as "The Future". At this age, we have (allegedly) got real jobs, a house, a wife (hopefully an understanding and supportive one), and perhaps for the first time, at least in my case, some disposable income. </div></div>

I got my first Buick (the Wildcat) about the time I met my wife...once we got serious, she stated my hobby was fine so long as the next one was a convertible (the Invicta)...as it turns out, the first one on the road is a convertible (the Special)...yes, she is definitely supportive...it also helps that she takes care of the disposable income

The snow is pretty much gone from the roads here, so I'll be driving again soon...unfortunately, it is raining. Actual club-based activities won't start locally until about mid-May...sigh.

[our51super]

I never told this to anyone in the local Gateway Chapter but since the topic came up I might as well tell EVERYONE ... I'm 36 also, and was voted in as the vice president and was told that I was going to be the president of the local club the coming year. I attended one board member meeting and the bickering about what kind of T-shirts we can get for the upcoming regional show turned me off. Not only did I not want to be the vice president / president - I quit the club all together. I think the reason is that at my day job, I am forced to make rather important decisions based on limited information and make them quick - so when 8 people argue about what kind of T-shirts to get for an hour ...

Anyway ... I too joined the club thinking that I would get all kinds of information on how to work on these old beauties but much to my surprise I was the most mechanically inclined person there - most folks just had the funds available to have other people work on their cars (that's not too bad a situation to be in either).

We need a "younger members want to pick your brain about old cars" club.

Cheers!

[NTX5467]

I completely understand the scenario that you describe. You have enough issues at work and then you step in to a "fun" place and think "I want to be a part of THIS??". I also understand that your reflex action can happen too. "Time to go do something else . . ." Yet, sometimes, "discussions" on decisions can get to be what I call "way tooo circular . . . " for a final decision to result in the short term.

I can also perceive why you decided to leave rather than confront them, as an officer, on their apparent lack of progress. Sometimes, we all try to be nice and not make waves where sometimes waves need to be made.

By the same token, sometimes people get involved in some action (bickering with no apparent result) and tend to get so lost or caught up in that activity that they lose sight of just how it might look to others. At one of our meetings several years ago, a member came in late (with his two somewhat unruly children). He was frazzled due to driving for about an hour and the way the kids were acting. He got up and started a tirade about something that didn't go quite to suit him. Something he brought up before the whole membership in attendance AND about three pair of new visitors. This was something that he could have brought up to the club officers rather than the whole group, but he apparently wanted the "exposure". End result, we NEVER saw those visitors ever again. He was irate before he walked into the door and didn't really care about anything other than making his "speech". If it had been just our members, it would have been "better", but it was not just us and he did not respect or understand how visitors present might or should change things.

Similar situation to what you saw going on and what those visitors saw at our meeting that day--"Who want's to be a part of THAT???". The difference is that now that you've put this out in the open, you now have a discussion point with the former chapter group. Perhaps an exit interview with them could be arranged?

Perhaps as they thought enough of you to elect you to an office in the chapter, you might still have enough credibility with them to have a professional-type discussion with the current officers. OR perhaps some of them might see your post and contact YOU first? Y'all are the ones closest to the situation (as mentioned) and also the best ones to possibly effect a positive outcome.

Take care and DO stay involved with the BCA.

Willis Bell 20811

Director, North Texas Chapter BCA

[our51super]

Willis,

You always have the most in-depth and interesting posts/replies and this is no exception. I have to say that if what I described had happened a few weeks ago then perhaps your resolution/suggestion would be appropriate. However, it has been more than 2 years and our children took over a lot of the free time (ok, ALL of the free time) that we had - a good part of which we spent with the local chapter and I'm afraid it's too late to even try to go back. This message board is about all I can do to stay abreast of what's happening in the club (both locally and at the national scale).

As a side note, I have always wanted to know (and this relates to the topic of this post) how you know so much about so much? Like I said, I have been reading your posts for a while now and it seems that no matter what the topic is you are a walking encyclopedia on the subject. I'm very envious - I think it's folks like you that we are trying to learn as much as possible from.

Cheers!

[Barney Eaton]

Gentlemen, I am about to complete two years on the BCA board and never thought there would be the issues we have seen. Trying to satisfy Buick owners who's cars span 100+ years can be a eye opening experience.

We must bring new blood into our club or the membership number will slowly slide. The BCA should have 20,000+ members but we have 9000+. The "Modified Buick" issue was very sensitive to some people, but take a hard look at what a modified car might be. Some of the highly prized 1930's custom bodied cars are actually "modified". I recently looked at a "rodder" magazine on the newstand, in there was a tour of a shop, in one picture there were 4 Buicks being modified.

Whether you agree or not with modified Buicks, they are Buicks and we are loosing members to other groups because we are throwing stones. The BCA average age is probably 55+ (my guess,we don't have statistics) and we need new blood or all of us will be officers of our clubs forever.

I don't know how to solve the internal (club) bickering, much of that is human nature and some people thrive on conflict. They also drive good member away.

I could go on but would like to hear more from you.

[wroberts]

Well being a new Buick member and a young one (29) I?m intrigued by this thread.

The car I have is a 1981 Skylark Convertible, by American Custom Coachworks. It certainly isn?t ?original? and is modified. But that?s OK as I like it that way. At first I grappled with the whole do I keep it original, or customize it thing, but after discovering that my doors are from an 83 instead of a 81, (Different side mirrors) I went the custom route. So far I?ve swapped in an 80 grill, taillights and front bumper filler. Why, because I like them better. I?ve also added drop in aftermarket halogen headlights, with clear lenses, and plan on adding some other appearance and mechanical upgrades. I get the feeling from reading this list that not everybody is happy with the recent modified class. However I belong to two online users groups for X-Body Cars and A-Body cars and modifying the cars to their own liking is what these groups, full of younger people like myself, do with their cars.

Why? My fascination with cars is squarely centered in the 80?s. Yea, I like the older cars, but those hold no memories for me. While these older cars can be considered ?perfect? just the way they are most cars made after 1975 are not. To really enjoy these cars most people suit them to their needs. So if there is a big backlash against modifying your car then that will chase off younger ones like myself. Besides isn?t modifying your rides what got the hot-rodders going back in the 50?s and 60?s ?

Also being new to restoration I am in need of technical advice. So far I?ve really like Auto Restoration for Amateurs article and want to buy the back issues. I look forward to hearing from the rest of the group on my tech/restoration questions.

I noticed that you don?t have anybody in Tech Advisors for 80-85 Skylarks, what do I need to do to volunteer?

[Gene Brink]

Barney,

I've largely kept my opinions to myself with regards to the "hot" issues of late (gas prices/oil exploration/mileage; modifieds/customs/stock) as it has been my experience that people are pretty entrenched in their positions and while I enjoy a good exchange (and have enjoyed largely reading the exchanges thus far) have found it is generally not worth the effort to engage in attempting to change anyones religion, political persusion, world view, etc. Having said that I do think the BCA should reach out to anyone with interest in Buicks (to include modifieds and customs). I am saddened when someone cuts up an old car to modify but it is not sacrilege to do so.

[JohnD1956]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't know how to solve the internal (club) bickering, much of that is human nature and some people thrive on conflict. They also drive good member away. </div></div>

Being our Chapter is in it's formative stage, we had a member who suggested we do things according to "Roberts Rules of Order". I bought a small book on Roberts Order Newly Revised and am in the process of reading it. The entire book deals with conducting meetings and there are several hints in there on how to prevent infighting. One I saw was that everyone is allowed to talk twice on a motion. Once to initially address it and the next to rebut what others have said. The best hint says to make everyone address their comments to the board, or chairperson, running the meeting. This will stop the speaker from addressing the member who just pissed em off.

Of course, you need a strong chairperson running the meeting who can focus on the conversation and enforce these rules consistently with all members and make sure the conversation stays on point. This is much more difficult in a voluntary group than at work. However, it is usually appreciated by people who don't want to see that infighting which leads to no resolution.

BTW, for our Chapter we agreed to follow five basic rules as follows:

1) any member may make a motion, and any other member may second it. If no one seconds it, there is nothing to discuss.

2) we can only work on one motion at a time.

3) Motions may be amended by making a motion to amend, but that becomes the active motion and must be voted on before returning to the original motion or proceeding on the amended motion.

4) Discussion is limited by the chairperson.

5) Members should address their comments to the board.

That's enough rules for us at the present.

JD

[NTX5467]

Crin, thanks for the kind comments. I fully understand your family issues (and time devoted to such) and appreciate your orientations in that area.

By observation (which I mean just as that!), many BCA members tend to mirror the "cars of their youth" in what they perceive are "collectible" cars. This is perfectly normal, regardless of or age--period--but I also suspect that many of us might tend to overlay OUR perceptions of what vehicles are "desireable" to own onto what we suspect that younger people might term "desireable". Hence, the more common comments that "Buick doesn't have any newer vehicles a young person might desire". To those BCA people, my response is to look around at places like RegalGS.org and the other many GM-related forums, group websites, and personal websites where the later model fwd Buicks are showcased as "cherished vehicles" by their younger owners. It IS all out there! By observaton, with no perceived Buick group to be a part of, many of these younger Buick owners established their own CyberPresence and clubs to exchange information and stay in contact with each other. Sure, they probably could have found the BCA in their searches, but probably did not perceive that they "fit in" very well, so like the Riviers, GS, and Reatta enthusiasts (originally), they went off and did their own thing--if they could not show their newer model (newer than 12 years old) pride and joy in a BCA national show, why bother?

In the later 1970s, it was not uncommon for customers of '73+ model Chevy full size pickups to get later model grilles and other things from the salvage yard or dealership to make their vehicles look "better" or "newer". MANY used car lots bought the '78+ model side mouldings to make the '77 models (the only year that had the mustard gold color paint insert on the side mouldings) look like newer models. The fact that it was mentioned that later model grills and such have been swapped into the '81 Skylark (due to cosmetic preference, just as with the pickup truck side mouldings) fits right into that situation. One salvage yard "rebuilder" regularly bought "Custom-10" models at auction and then added all of the Silverado exterior trim (and maybe some interior trim too) as he got them ready to resale.

Many of the issues (re: modified vehicles) might not have existed in the earlier times of the BCA. The as stated "end of the assembly line" orientation is a good one, especially with natural attrition of earlier model Buicks as time progresses into the future. So, there's a reason for keeping that orientation in place, but there's also the "Buick family" aspect of the hobby too--an ever expanding situation. Some might consider "modern" vehicles as "used cars" or "not collectible", but are those reasons to keep a BUICK off of the BCA 400 Point Show field? Or Archival or Driven Class too? In other words, it doesn't have to be an "old Buick" or a (generally perceived) "collectible Buick" to still be a "cherished Buick" of our youth (or other part of our prior lives).

It's highly possible that a good, driving, running car could suddenly become a "parts car" if some desired part can't be found (locally, typically) to fix or repair it. Wreck damage that can't be repaired is one reason, for example. Yet being in the BCA also can tap into a supply chain that might not be otherwise available via other sources. But that situation also opens the door to "doing something different" rather than just "pure stock". Let it go to "rustville" or the crusher rather than revive it as a Buick (not completely stock) to drive another day? BOTH valid orientations which BOTH have merit! No need to get back into that discussion AGAIN, either!

I also need to state that I really appreciate older vehicles that still have their "family" engine in them. As in having a Buick engine where a Buick engine would have originally been from the factory, but a newer Buick engine if desired. It sends the signal to me that the owner really cared about maintaining the Buick family orientation in "fixing up" the vehicle. Of course, in the later vehicles with "corporate" non-Buick-heritage engines, things can get a little "different". I wish Leno had put a Buick 455 engine in his Roadmaster, but I also fully understand why the GM Crate 502 went into it also--his money, his preference, his vehicle. In addition to being in every car magazine around, it was ALSO featured in a GM dealer publication done by GM.

The Roberts Rules situation is a valid one too. Even if a discussion might get "off track" or become non-productive, somebody has to get things back under control . . . somehow. Key thing is to get something accomplished and be productive. How that's done can be a variable situation in each unique situation--even if it might be a more informal "work session" rather than a regular chapter meeting.

Until the BCA adds the word "Antique" into its official (key word, "official") title, I'll consider it a GENERAL and "all encompassing" Buick Club of America where there's room for ANY BUICK vehicle (and their owners) to be welcome at meetings AND at the National Meets' judged events. If Buick built it, it's "A Part of the Family" and needs to have some place in our national meets.

One side issue is dealing with "dealer installed" non-GM or non-Buick equipment. Yet these issues are much easier to track with the newer Service Parts Identification (SPID) labels on the newer GM products. Kind of mirrors the Data Plate that Chrysler has used for decades, or the "Build Sheets" too, but in a much more accessible situation (than the build sheets, which are still printed and hidden in the vehicles). Still, if it's a Buick produced vehicle, it needs to have some place to participate in our BCA events (with the corresponding BCA member bringing it).

Yep, Mike and Willie, another "2:00AM+ post" . . .

In the end, though, every body needs to be comfortable with whatever "group" they might be a part of to pursue their automotive hobby pursuits. If it's a BCA chapter and the BCA per se, that's great! As time progresses, more options present themselves--options which do not sometimes include the BCA.

Perhaps when the general age demographics for the total BCA might decrease, it might be synergistic and lead to a further increase in younger members. "Younger members" being defined as "non-grand children of existing BCA members" in this case, with all due respect. I suspect that more 30-something members would be a start.

If WE are going to pass on the huge legacy of information and knowledge that many in the BCA have, there has to be somebody to pass it on to. Exchanging information among ourselves is great, but WE are not the only Buick enthusiasts in the situation either. As we age, keeping the information to ourselves is somewhat counterproductive and somewhat detrimental to the hobby. One reason that it's great that this BCA website is open to non-BCA, but potential BCA, members!

Enjoy! (to your particular, individual tolerance level and where ever you might desire--legally)

Willis Bell 20811

[wroberts]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">By observation (which I mean just as that!), many BCA members tend to mirror the "cars of their youth" in what they perceive are "collectible" cars. This is perfectly normal, regardless of or age--period--but I also suspect that many of us might tend to overlay OUR perceptions of what vehicles are "desireable" to own onto what we suspect that younger people might term "desireable". Hence, the more common comments that "Buick doesn't have any newer vehicles a young person might desire". To those BCA people, my response is to look around at places like RegalGS.org and the other many GM-related forums, group websites, and personal websites where the later model fwd Buicks are showcased as "cherished vehicles" by their younger owners. It IS all out there! By observaton, with no perceived Buick group to be a part of, many of these younger Buick owners established their own CyberPresence and clubs to exchange information and stay in contact with each other. </div></div>

I know lots of people my age (late 20's-30's) that are into 80's cars, and theses have setup their own sites. The two clubs that i belong to, Chevy Celebrity Club of America, and Chevy Citations Forever, come to mind. While both of these clubs have Chevy in the name there are many Buicks, that are prized and sought after on those sites.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The fact that it was mentioned that later model grills and such have been swapped into the '81 Skylark (due to cosmetic preference,</div></div>

Hey somebody read my post. (You know I still have the 81 stuff, it's not hard to switch it back) I did it because I didn't like the front end. I didn't modify anything they were direct bolt in replacements. Besides in 81 they had a sport option front end that has a grill that looks like the 80 grill. But if this changes would prevent me from entering a show then why enter a BCA show, and be a BCA member? I get LOTS of nice comments from guys at car shows, I don't care if I win anything.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Some might consider "modern" vehicles as "used cars" or "not collectible", but are those reasons to keep a BUICK off of the BCA 400 Point Show field? Or Archival or Driven Class too? In other words, it doesn't have to be an "old Buick" or a (generally perceived) "collectible Buick" to still be a "cherished Buick" of our youth (or other part of our prior lives). </div></div>

Well said my Skylark is FWD, and has a factory Chevy 2.8, but I certainly cherish it.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yet being in the BCA also can tap into a supply chain that might not be otherwise available via other sources. </div></div>

This is one of the main reasons I joined. Mechanicle parts are not that hard to come by as GM reused many a part on my Skylark till the Century was discontinued in 96. But just try to find body parts.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Of course, in the later vehicles with "corporate" non-Buick-heritage engines, things can get a little "different". </div></div>

So how would the BCA look upon me modifying my Skylark, and adding a Buick 3800 to replace the Chevy 2.8? It can be done, and look pretty stock to.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If WE are going to pass on the huge legacy of information and knowledge that many in the BCA have, there has to be somebody to pass it on to. Exchanging information among ourselves is great, but WE are not the only Buick enthusiasts in the situation either. As we age, keeping the information to ourselves is somewhat counterproductive and somewhat detrimental to the hobby. One reason that it's great that this BCA website is open to non-BCA, but potential BCA, members!</div></div>

I look forward to getting some advice.

[25Buick25]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also being new to restoration I am in need of technical advice. So far I?ve really like Auto Restoration for Amateurs article and want to buy the back issues. </div></div>

I think the author, Matt Hardwood, posts here frequently. He also has the older articles available on his web site........http://www.harwoodperformance.bizland.com/1941buick/index.html (sorry no HTML skiils).

And for a strange bit of "its a small world" it turns out that Matt Hardwood's dad Peter used to own my 25 Buick! Anyone else been able to find another member who owned there car?

[imported_buick5563]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, Mike and Willie, another "2:00AM+ post" . . .

</div></div>

I wasn't going to bring it up

Mike

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, Mike and Willie, another "2:00AM+ post" . . .

</div></div>

I wasn't going to bring it up

Mike </div></div>

It may have been 2:00 when he started but look at what time he finshed...3:28. Don't reckon he dozed off at some point do ya.

Other than my scrollin finger gettin the cramps some time I fully enjoy ol Willis's post though. I've learned a lot from the ol' boy.

[NTX5467]

The 3800 might "fit", but the other GM fwd cars that did use the 3.8 and 4.1 Buick V-6s had longer front end sheet metal to compensate for their wider (90 degree) bank angle rather than the Chevy's much narrower 60 degree bank angle.

In any event, if the engine was not spec'd for the particular car from the factory, it would be "modified"--although it would still be a Buick Family engine. I believe the 400 Point Judging rules address that issue. I saw a Pontiac A6000 (in one of the Pontiac enthusiast magazines) that somebody had put a Chevy 5.7L TBI pickup truck engine into. It fit and with many internal mods, the Turbo 125 transaxle was still in it. Had some beefier axles built for it too. Be that as it may . . .

Also, I'm in CST, Mr. Earl. You're in EST? That would explain the noted time issues.

Y'all enjoy!

Willis

[imported_buick5563]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Other than my scrollin finger gettin the cramps some time I fully enjoy ol Willis's post though. I've learned a lot from the ol' boy. </div></div>

roger that Mr. Earl,

But also know that when this conversation initially came up, he was trying to convince Willie and me that the time posts were GMT.

Mike

[wroberts]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The 3800 might "fit", but the other GM fwd cars that did use the 3.8 and 4.1 Buick V-6s had longer front end sheet metal to compensate for their wider (90 degree) bank angle rather than the Chevy's much narrower 60 degree bank angle. </div></div>

BTW the 3800 fits nicely actually any version 3.8, 3800, 3800 Series II

The x-Body platform (80-85 Slylark) has its engine cradle shared with the A-Body platform (3.8, 3300), the Fiero, and U-body Vans (3800). So anything that can go in those can go in a 80-85 Skylark. This includes all the V8 kits out there for the Fiero. Plus a 4.9L Caddy V8 fits in there nicely as well. (Pay no attention to the Chevy in the pictures, the engine compartments between the Buick and Chevy's are exactly the same)

Another "mod" that I've done is to upgrade the suspension parts with the Citation X-11 parts. The X-11 was designed for autocross, and handles much better than the "stock" Buick suspension.

Thats the fun you can have with a 80-85 Skylark, it's very easily modified, but can retain it's stock look. These can make great sleeper cars, like the turbo Regals of the 80's.

Anyway I'm getting off track. I think that to attact younger members, you have to be open to the modified vehicles. Espicially with newer Buicks, that can be on the boring side (RWD Regal/Grand National excluded) Just think whats one of the most popular shows on cars to young people? When was the last time you saw MTV's "Pimp my Ride" Now there are some nice, but sometimes crazy, modifications. But thats what younger people want custom, modified, stuff. Espicially in the mass produced, sea of the same car world we live in.

[Gene Brink]

Nice work, Will. Any performance figures? Should be pretty quick...

[NTX5467]

I was just going by what the magazines said "back then". Thanks for the great information!!! Looks great!!

I never did run cross-refs on those earlier cars, but did discover that the DeVille, LeSabre, and Park Avenue (current generation) front subframes are the same (part number wise) a few years ago. Not that I would be excited about a NorthStar V-8 in a LeSabre, but if it'd clear the hood, that whole front subframe will interchange. Which further means that just changing the mounts would change the powertrain "module"--just like the "old days", of sorts.

At the time, the Citation X-11 was the "hottest" car of its type from GM. Some neat chassis items, plus some neat factory wheels. One of the few applications of the Holley staged 2bbl carb too (which was a little pricey back then, approx $700.00 retail).

Thanks again!!

Willis