Got my November issue of the Kustom Bugle?

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> If we all did the samt thing, it would be a boring place to live. </div></div>

Joe, I've been in this hobby now for about 30 years. Watching the hobby change over those years has upset me. My point in this discussion is that increasingly, year after year, we <span style="font-weight: bold">have</span> become a group that <span style="font-weight: bold">is</span> doing <span style="font-weight: bold">exactly</span> the same thing. More specifically we individually adhere to one of two groups who do the same things: rodders who drive and restorers who (temporarily) preserve and store.

...And watching one die while the other is more and more burdened with cultural pervasiveness is getting <span style="font-style: italic">real</span> boring.

[GMPARTSMAN]

Some valid points have been brought up, but ultimately it's up to the owner

of the vehicle on what he does with it. If I pay the tab, I can paint it pink with green stripes if I like. Case in paticular, my '55 Special 2dr sedan. I have owned it since 1979, it's getting kind of shabby again, time to freshen it

up again, last time was 1987 for paint work. What is it worth on today's market if I sell it, one-third approximate value of a 2 dr hardtop? Approximate paint job price today is about 5 thousand, needs the interior redone too, a couple of'

thousand more. Now we are at 7 thousand, for a car that is probably worth about

6 thousand tops. If I am going to redo it, I will 50's custom it, not major body mods, just paint, custom interior, lower it, all using vintage type parts.

And yes, I restore correctly too. My last rescue was a 67 Pontiac 2+2, only 1761 built in the U.S. It was a body shell sitting on tree stumps, took me two years of collecting to finaly get enough parts to put a drive train together (try finding full size Pontiac clutch linkage), and ten years to find the fender ornaments that were missing.

Look around at the next swap meet you go to, and judge the ages of the others there. 40's and up, right? Where are the younger people at? What of our cherished restorations after we are gone or unable to participate? Will they be chopped up, sold overseas, or like in at least one case I know of, taken to a scrap yard as the family doesn't want to bother with them? If we can get a new generation involved with the modified and custom cars, as least we have a chance of getting them interested in preserving the original and restored cars.

I too have been involved with the car hobby since 1966, and have worked in car dealers since 1970, and have seen many changes in both. We have to be able to adapt to a changing world and hobby, in my opinion. Just my two cents worth.

[The Old Guy]

Dave, that is EXACTLY my point! If we can get the younger car owners into the BCA,we get their talent end expertise. I joined the BCA 35 years ago because my boys were wanting to use my Hot Rods. Through the years I have had Buicks at Meadowbrook, Eyes on the Classics, and the Gilmore Museum. These were all properly done antiques, but I still like modifieds. The younger crowd just need to be nudged in the right direction.

[Dave@Moon]

Joe, read some of the posts in the AACA thread I linked above (also here: So Now What? ). People will agree with you in principle, but when it comes to making substantive changes in how we structure and participate in the hobby to make it more inclusive it suddenly becomes more of an infringement/affront than a meaningful issue. I was shocked by the level of disinterest.

[6219_Rules]

I have not received this publication...since I am not a member. I am a very satisfied member of the CLC (yes I am a Cadillac lover) and I love Buicks too. I also regularly drive a 1947 Cadillac and a 1977 Eldorado, and while I am at it, I am restoring a 1956 Cadillac 62 sedan. I am keeping them 95 - 99% original. That is what I like. But I did have the Delco in the '47 rebuilt with an FM modulator chip and an RCA jack for my iPod. Big deal. It still runs on 6 volts, drum brakes etc.. Why? Because I wanted to drive a 1947 Cadillac. Or a 1977 Cadillac or a 1956 Cadillac, the operative word here is "want".

Mine are not showers, although I have shown them. They are drivers and I love them.

I respect a persons desire to drive a car that is customized and has the look of a period car.

I do not want to participate in it. If the hobby is turning this way, and if the government is starting to see old vehicles as out dated, out moded and undesirable due to the number of new cars on the road, economics and ecological concerns, then we should enjoy them as we can.

Change is imminant and inevitable. I understand and empathize with Pete (Tommy) and Dave (Moon), and I see Brad's point very clearly. I have also written articles of a local club and enjoyed the process. And no, as a person and a moderator, I do not like the tone of this thread.

If you do not like a car, then don't look at it. IF you do not like the way things are going in your club, then get involved, volunteer or write articles...help where you can and be heard so your ideas are out front with the rank and file, as well as the directors. Dave at least tried to make an impact with his posts. Pete might have made more of an impact had he written to the editors and asked for equal time...perhaps an article on his favorite preservation project or an article on this very topic.

I am 48 years old, disabled and admittedly less than social. I still hope for the best, and work where I can to help the hobby. I am facing the very real need to sell my '47 and that is OK. I have had a ball with it. I am hoping someone who loves old cars and wants a 1947 Cadillac will buy it rather than someone who wants a 2000 something machine that looks like a '47 but once it trades hands, it is no longer something I can control. I am working to restore my '56 to drivable condition so I can enjoy it before my health completely fails.

Please...enjoy your cars, however you do it and support each other in the hobby. Accept new ideas and younger people with open arms, and then show them your perspective. I think you will find that many, if not all, will at least respect you for it, and many will work to restore a car as well as having custom jobs. I have had to learn this lesson many times and it is a hard one to accept, but I am convinced it works.

Mutual respect and acceptance with guidance and shared ideas will takes us all a lot farther than vitriolic exchanges and rigidity. Older generations have a lot to share, as younger ones have in new ideas...it all works to our advantage.

I hope that helps open the perspective a little.

[brad54]

I do agree 1000000% with the perspective that people should enjoy their cars regardless of how they choose to do it. Whether it be a rusted beater driver or a 100-percent show car that never turns a wheel under its own power, being pushed into and out of an enclosed trailer.

I just can't, for the life of me, understand how others can rip into somebody else's hard work and passion and call it crap, etc. And it really gets my hackles up when someone refers to my interests, enthusiasm and what my career is based around as "rape."

More to the point, I don't understand people's need to unkindly stick their nose and opinion, in the rudest ways, into any arena. I see a lot of things going on in the hobby, and the world for that matter, that I don't like or agree with. But unless it DIRECTLY affects me or my family in a negative way, I don't start hurling insults around. (I will react to people throwing the insults, which I should probably not do as often).

I don't like air-bagged cars sitting on the ground, or 20-inch rims. The younger guys in my neighborhood keep telling me I should 'bag my '54 and put it on the ground. I don't like that look, but I like the guys. And now, after seeing my car sitting in the shop, these guys are trying to get their projects finished up so they can find an old car. They'll probably put air bags under it and all the rest, but you know what? I don't care--they'll have an old car, and we'll have another thing in common that we can talk about.

And my friend in Athens with the fleet of original '54s--I really enjoy his company. He loves resto, not my hot rod stuff. But we have a good time hanging out together.

Three segments of the hobby, all getting along. Notice that nobody is refering to other people's stuff as "crap" or "raping old cars."

What's so hard about that?

The Model A is close to 80 years old, and has been one of the most hot-rodded cars of all time. There is no shortage of restored stockers today. There will be stock and restored Buicks around long after we're all dead.

And if you don't like the direction of certain parts of the hobby, or don't enjoy the hobby anymore, than for goodness sakes, get out of the hobby! Take up fishing, hunting, model trains, whatever. But getting less enjoyment of this hobby as a result of what other people are doing, and continuing to be a part of it, is close to the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I whacked my knuckles last night six or seven times with a hammer while working on my car. I can't see doing that and then NOT having a good time later to offset it! And I certainly can't see making other people around me unhappy because of rude comments about them and their pride and joy.

-Brad

[Guest imported_BCAOffice]

Just a quick note to voice an opinion. As long as everyone continues to reply to this thread, it will remain at the top of the posts. Why waste time talking with someone with such a narrow view? If we all stop responding, the thread will work it's way into oblivion. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but why cater to this guy. It's very obvious that we are not going to change Pete's opinion so just ignore him.

Mike Book

BCA # 9202

BDE # 109

Reatta # 407

BMD # 2

[Guest]

Yes, that is classic...

The BCA office telling a member to "butt out".... to funny.

I just got a private note for an old ex-BCA member who said he quite the BCA because his Buick was to old, and the BCA will do what every it wants anyway! How timely!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't go in there in hip waders. I looked at it and don't think I care for the direction they are going. I dropped out of the BCA years ago because there appeared to be no place for the really old Buicks like mine, and this just reenforces that judgment.

It's their club and they will do what the want with it and it just isn't my problem. Just bring your old Buicks to the AACA and you will be welcome and comfortable. :-)) </div></div>

A board full of retires, and a club with no mission statement, other then issuing BCA credit cards.

So, our BCA officer dose not embrace boths sides of the issue, but writes off all the above comments as raving of a mad-man.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BMD # 2 </div></div>

now I see why this car is on the cover.

I'll have to call Paul Meyer and get a "true reading" on this BCA policy from an elected club officer.

[Guest my3buicks]

Pete, I would suggest you do just that, call the board members - the tone of your posts have been discussed with board members. It's not that anyone let alone the BCA office doesn't embrace both sides of the/an issue - it's just how you present your opinion that not appropriate.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">And my friend in Athens with the fleet of original '54s--I really enjoy his company. He loves resto, not my hot rod stuff. But we have a good time hanging out together.</div></div>

But back in '66 it was a little bit of a different story. gold flake, shaved, blueprinted 327, Muncie 4 speed, 411 posi trac 57 Chevy pullin wheelies in front of the courthouse. And that was derived from a beautiful stock automatic, 283, red and white with double rear antenna and fender mirrors. The driving force behind "soupin up" my Chevy? One night a good friend left me in his dust drivin his parents red and white 4 door 1954 Buick Century. I'll never forget the sight of those twin bullet tailights just pullin on out in front of me and me not being able to catch'em.

Hey that's what automobles are all about. Different strokes for different folks.

BTW I thought you were gonna send me some pictures of that chopped Ford with the 401 Nailhead you caught me lookin at Sunday.

And while you're scannin why don't you show us that hot rod magazine cover of your 57 Chevy Wagon. I bet Tommy / Peter would love to see what a lazy editor does in his off duty hours.....

[NTX5467]

With all due respect to all involved, it seems things have really "turned ugly" in some respects and "oil pressures" have been allowed to have been elevated.

Tommy is concerned because our editor has begun a policy of doing only ONE issue with modified Buicks in it. Is or are those minimum number of articles so disgusting to particular members that they get so irate about that? From what I've seen here, the answer would appear to be "Yes".

But let's turn that around . . . how many articles on non-Modified Buicks or particular years of non-Modified Buicks are there that others might not have any interest in--each month? Is THAT the real issue? Do we protest those articles that we thumb right past just as the Modified Buicks articles might have been by those that might not be interested in them?

I'm sure that Mr. Brooks' great articles in this month's magazine are of interest to many, but not specifically to ALL BCA members. Similar with the great Triple-Turbine DynaFlow articles and indepth restoration articles by Mr. Shoening, plus Matt Harwood's article. For someone that just wants to look at pictures, those print articles could have just been passed over, yet there were great information in those articles.

Pictures and print items are both needed for any publication--period. Sometimes, the balance might be more than one or the other, but it usually balances out.

I can understand some of Tommy's orientations. Orientations that probably make sense to him and others which share his orientation, but might be challenged by others. Old vehicles are something like real estate--they aren't building any more of them. A realistic point of view, but there will always be some that are more "important" or "desired" by others. I've also seen (as mentioned) the "less valuable" cars being scavenged for parts to fix the 2-door hardtops and convertibles of the same year for many years--which I feel is a real shame, but in a hobby that is somewhat driven by $$$$$$$, it's going to happen, yet no body has put up a big defense against that kind of attrition! Not to mention cars from "rust free" states scavenged by people for resale in the "rust" states JUST FOR THEIR COMMON BODY PARTS.

Are these activities real cause for concern? Possibly. But just as with real estate, the less there is around, the higher the prices go up. As prices escalate, the less desireable models suddenly become real alternatives to the glamour models. Many people realize they can have just as much fun in a Buick Special as a Century, for example, and do it for less money. More cars are fixed up, whether purely stock or somewhat "different", which helps the entire car hobby--period.

When other investments have tanked, the "money people" will find places to put their money to make money. If you saw the really high prices of the Barrett-Jackson auction in AZ earlier this year, it was the investors instead of the strict hobbiests that were probably driving those higher prices and "feeding frenzy" bids. When the normal investments start offering better returns, the collector car market will flatten out again.

A couple of years ago, there was a very neat article in one of the collector car magazines. It involved a '55 or '56 Buick Special 2-door sedan. It was a long-time family car that was fixed up for the high school son. The father/son team restored the car and did it in something of a period custom, but NO major body work, just different two-tone paint, different interior items, plus some extra underhood chrome and the requisite (for that time) 3x2 carb setup. They could just as easily have done it in a pure stock restoration, but that was not their particular taste.

The OTHER situation is that by doing it that way, instead of a pure stock restoration, they ALSO made it more saleable in the future. It was a more special Special that way, whether to the family members that kept the memories of that car alive, but also to the new owners that would not need to make very many changes to it as they'd already been done. Hence, the car's better chance of survival in the future, other than a major wreck situation or similar.

SO, where's the judgment call? Send it to the crusher as it was an old car with old brakes, old engine parts, hard-to-find tire sizes, or tattered interior? Let it rust behind the barn (how many have tried to buy a "behind the barn" car and been told "I'm going to restore it?")? Or make it into something that others would desire to own and still carry the great Buick styling and name into the future, even though it might not be "totally original"?

Sure, preservation of "stock" cars is important, but so many of those are so "over-restored" that they are not accurate by any stretch of the imagination, so much so that they are deemed "accurate" because there are so many of them! Is THAT a much bigger indiscretion than customization?

Personally, I applaud the Editor of The Bugle for including the modified Buicks in the publication, even if it's just one issue. It is a small and great indication that not all Buicks are preserved (and worth preserving) as completely stock vehicles. Yes, keeping the accurate (key word, "accurate") end-of-the-assembly line condition cars (of any kind) around is very necessary for future generations, but as those cars are increasingly relegated to museum status or "very limited driver" status, the ones that will generally survive in the open world will most probably be the ones that have been updated with more modern parts/technology in some way--whether it's radial tires, halogen headlights, FM and/or satellite radio systems or base coat/clearcoat paint techonolgy or synthetic lubricants. To me, these are reality issues that can be executed in something of "incognito" manners in many cases.

As GMPARTSMAN stated, in the car business you HAVE to be cognizant of changing situations and times. That does NOT mean totally forgetting about the past, but being aware of where you've been (AND been through) as you chart the course into and plan for the future. That's "survival"!

The comment of Tommy's associate that left the BCA as the older cars were being abandoned? I haven't seen that as a real situation, but my perception might not be the same as his. If anything, I would say that, at the present time, there might be a little too much emphasis on the older cars (as evidenced by National Meet Show Fields) and not enough on the Buicks of more recent manufacture (other than the great showing of Reattas!). We DO need to maintain the existing emphasis on the past as we also encourage partipation with the more "modern" Buicks of the later 1970s and newer--even if the majority of them might not be convertibles or hardtops. AND WHERE ARE THE 1950s and 1960s and 1970s STATION WAGONS???!!!!!

Tommy might have some valid comments, even if their presentation might have been a little abrasive to some. We all have our own orientations on these issues. But it would seem that as the BCA is supposed to be the premier Buick club in the world, it should be inclusive of ALL Buicks and not specifically just a segment that each of us might be more interested in than other segments we might not care for. In the best interest of the Buick segment of the automotive hobby, it would seem that such an "all inclusive" orientation in the club publication should follow. We might not like some segments of the Buick hobby, but that does NOT mean they are not liked by others in the BCA. In many cases, "broadening horizons" can be a good situation.

Just as the Straight 8-era articles might not be in my specific areas of interest, I might read them later to broaden my knowledge of those Buicks. The particular customized Buick (in The Bugle this month) has just as great of a legacy of its prior owners and its past as any stock Buick that might still be in the ownership of and cherished by the original owner's family. If it was "just a Buick", it might be that it would have added some iron content to the ground somewhere--or worse. It certainly would not have made it into a prestigeous car museum (Darryl Starbird was of the same genre as George Barris) for many people to enjoy and adore and possibly motivate them to do similar things in the future.

Life is full of judgment calls. What happens to cars as they age depends on the judgment calls of their current owners or future owners (even if that includes a salvage yard operator). Many things are open for debate, the outcome of which might change due to many outside influences--some we can influence and others we can't influence or even forsee over the horizon. We might not like all of our extended or blood family members, but they are still family.

As for screen names, the reason I'm using a screen name is that I desire that my comments be known as my own and not relate to any of the other organizations that my birth name might associate me with AND that my comments could not be construed to be "speaking for" or represent the views of those organizations. As such, the comments I make are mine alone. Yet my identity is not a total secret either.

Thanks for your time and consideration.

Now, let's put the needle on our "FUN METER" back up to the upper end of the scale!

Enjoy!

NTX5467

[Buicks Rule]

Tommy--A little history lesson.

The BCA began welcoming modified cars at its National meets around 1991. I could be off a few years.

Over the years, the subject of modified cars in the BCA has been brought up at the Annual General Membership Meeting, BCA Board meetings etc.

On more than one occasion, the Buick Club's founder, BCA #1 Greg Field raised his hand during the discussions, introduced himself and mentioned that he owned quite a few Buicks--including some MODIFIED Buicks. Just before he passed away, Greg had created a personal version of the Blackhawk. If it was good enough for BCA #1, guess it'll have to be good enough for Tommy.

BCA Editor Snowden always needs articles. If you don't like what's in this month's Bugle, or want more how to articles, or more straight-8 articles, more nailhead, more dynaflow, more chapter activities--WHATEVER--take some photos, write something and send it in. Snowden can't print what he does not have.

PS--Tommy--AACA receives significantly more revenue from the AACA affinity credit card ( like $50,000 per year ) than the BCA does from the BCA affinity credit card. AACA had theirs FIRST. If the BCA could get that kind of $$ from the program, maybe the Bugle could be a full color publication.

[Smartin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

A board full of retires, and a club with no mission statement, other then issuing BCA credit cards.

So, our BCA officer dose not embrace boths sides of the issue, but writes off all the above comments as raving of a mad-man.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> BMD # 2 </div></div>

now I see why this car is on the cover.

I'll have to call Paul Meyer and get a "true reading" on this BCA policy from an elected club officer. </div></div>

You've got to be kidding.

[Guest]

BuickPlus, send me a message, maybe we will get can get on the adjenda for 2005 board meeting and pled our case.

I think it's the wrong direction "for this country"

As far as BCA #1, it is clear what the focus of his club was from the inception. God rest in peace.

When the AACA starts pulling more Buick then the BCA, then you know your on the wrong side of history.

I'm sure none of this will make a diffrence, so relax!

[Barney Eaton]

I just finished reading all 54 posts, thankfully no one has been killed and the exchange is interesting.

Do a little research and read the Board minutes for the last few years. This subject that has been discussed in depth. We are "family" and hopefully we can coexist under the same umbrella.

Buick is one of the oldest makes to still be producing cars. (and most of us never thought you would see a Buick SUV) 101 years of production makes it difficult to produce a monthly magazine that satisfies every member, Baker press tries their best, with the articles that are submitted.

I believe many early Buicks are in the hands of museums. These cars may never attend a Buick meet and the guardians of the cars will never join the BCA. Even at Flint, the number of early cars was small.

Buick owners could split into several groups, each with their own interest, but there are economies in numbers. Why have several publications when one will do (if you can live with an occasional Buick that is not perfectly stock)? Why have several national meets when we can have one big meet where everyone is welcome? If everyone does their part to support the BCA and not just the vehicle that they own we can make this work and at the same time grow the club.

Why grow the club? There are fixed cost, regardless of our size. At this time we are spending almost every cent that come in from dues. The major percent of your dues goes to the production of the Bugle. If we were bigger (membership wise) we could produce a monthly Bugle with more pages without a increase in dues. This would allow for more articles and make more members happy each month. Using the same numbers, if we get smaller, we will either need to reduce the number of Bugle pages or increase dues.....this is not rocket science, just basic facts. PS..the bank that issued the BCA credit card, recently canceled the contract and the BCA get nothing from the cards that are out there.... this was documented in the Bugle and at the board meeting.

Since I am the only board member to comment on this posting, these are my personal comments and I am open to talking to any BCA member either online or by phone.... both of these contact are in the Bugle.

[NTX5467]

With respect to the AACA and the BCA, waaaayyyy back in 1996, when the radial tire "debates" were starting to heat up in the BCA, one of the comments I heard in the hall at the 1996 BCA National Meet had to do with some of the differences in the AACA and BCA judging orientations. It was held up to the BCA (as something of a Gold Standard of judging orientations) that the BCA should follow the AACA in their orientations regarding radial tires and halogen headlights. That the AACA allowed these "indiscretions" (modifications?) into their higher level awards (via lower point deductions?), then the BCA should follow suit.

The reply (which I believe was made by a member of the National Office at that time) to that contention was that the BCA, being a "Buick ONLY" group, should hold its judging to a higher standard than any other similar group--period. Hence, the large point deductions for radial tires and halogen headlights as "incorrect items" on the vehicle (when on the "non-appropriate" years and models of Buicks. If the AACA orientation is for more allegedly "driveable" vehicles than really "end of the assembly line" correct vehicles in their highest levels of awards, then that is THEIR situation, not the BCA's.

Each club is different and will naturally attract different people to them. If, per chance, an existing AACA member has other vehicles and then purchases a Buick, then it would be unlikely that they would ALSO join the BCA or other similar club. Others might not even have consisdered that there might be a Buick-only club anyway!

It would also be interesting to see just what Buicks are in the AACA and not in the BCA. I perceive this situation to be highly similar to that of ROA or GS club people that are not in the BCA, for whatever reason. What about the Veteran Motor Car Club or other related clubs too?

With all of its "universal umbrella" situations that have evolved over many years, the AACA is probably the one most well known club of its sort in the world. It's no wonder that they might also have more Buicks in their roster than the BCA might. Nor that they would need to have several regional national level events rather than one single large meet.

To me, the BCA should be it's own entity and not "follow" what other clubs do as such. It's good to keep track of what they are doing and how they are doing it, then possibly adapting some of their things into how or what the BCA does, possibly, but NOT to specifically do something just because of what the other club does. Each club's clientel/members are a little different and usually look at things in a particular and unique manner. It's THAT difference that makes each club have its own character. Everybody needs to belong to clubs that they "fit" with, but trying to make one club act like another club is, by observation, not good or successful in the long run. In any event, it's better to be a "leader" than a "follower" in this respect.

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[Buicksplus]

Friends:

I think this thread has been useful. I suppose Tommy could be more diplomatic, but, hey, this is the internet. Flames are part of the medium, even though they can blind the reader from the message. Methinks some of the BCA leaders protest too much, though Barney's response is pretty reasonable. I am sure the BCA knows that this is a divisive issue and is likely to remain so. Most car clubs struggle with it. But I must say the BCA has gone farther than most in welcoming the modifieds into the fold.

I have said many times that my interest in old car hobby is with preservation of all the history that these cars represent. That being said, I still have many friends and I enjoy the company of those who want to rod or modify their old cars. I don't barf or refuse to look at these cars, any more than I would dis a Chevy or Ford. I know that many modifieds are impressively done and displayed. But I do not come to meets to look at modifieds. I go to meet other collectors and restorers who are trying to figure out how these cars were made and how to make them run.

I would definitely lose interest in this club if the meets become parades of modified or even newer Buicks. That has not happened and chances are it won't -- as long as BCA sticks to a fairly narrow definition of what a modified Buick is.

By the way, I do not agree that most of the older Buicks have retreated into museums. There are still plenty of them out there, many gathering dust in garages and barns, now owned by grandchildren who are curious about gramps old car but don't have a clue about how to operate or maintain it. The BCA provides an important avenue to help get these cars out of hidden storage. It helps a lot when BCA encourages and promotes the preservation, display, and driving of original old cars. BCA does this, in many ways, and I appreciate their efforts.

Bill

Albuquerque, NM

[jerryacheson]

Well Tommy (and others) I'm sorry you feel that way. I met a gentleman a few weeks ago that referred to my 62 Electra ragtop as that 'illegal Buick' because I chose to put wire wheels on it. That little comment made me feel unwelcome in the BCA local chapter and I may not go back. My Buick is legal. I have the title; it has legal registration; and all the safety equipment works. It's road worthy. In fact, I just made a 550 mile trip in it without a flaw.

Is this the kind of response the BCA wants? I hope not. I'd guess the numbers of 'purists' are dwindling. Like you, I appreciate an original car or one that has been restored to original. They're beautiful and I appreciate the fact that I can go to one of them to see how Buick did it. It's also expensive and they're not always as drivable as a more modern car.

Obviously the leadership in the BCA is recognizing that there should be room for the purist and customizers. Perhaps there's more to this hobby than originality. What about meeting people and seeing their idea of art? What' so wrong with someone deciding to make their vehicle more comfortable or drivable or tweaking the look?

My suggestion to you is to look at and appreciate the kind of car you like. If you see something that you don't like, just walk on by and don't chastize the owner for what he's done. There's room for all of us in the BCA.

Bob; thanks for a great magazine.

Jerry

[Guest]

well,

The bottom line is that I have beem "raiding the BCA" for years. Harvesting all Buick people intrested in '27, '30 and '50 Buick and collecting then in the groups listed below.

Why?

Because the BCA dose not have a place for them. My free group, like the others, Nailhead Buicks for instance, has over 500 members.

there are:

117 -'27 group members

57 - '30 group members

130- '50 group members

23 - '42 group members

I see great success it these nic'h groups, and it's sad the the BCA is leting them go.

The same number of pre-war cars still exist, but the owners like myself do not include a BCA meet as a desintaion. (even though I'll be there in 2005 )

So BCA can forget those cars, and expanded to modified members, or work to get them back. I don't think the BCA can put the two groups together.

I have yet to see it done with any club.

As far as a "fellowship of the rings", going to the board meeting, my Dwarf's, elf's, and hobbit's, have not presented themselves.

So, let's see how this plays out.

BCA 2001 meet

BCA 2005

[Guest my3buicks]

ah, the wash area at Buffalo NY National meet - Thanks Pete for the doctored photo that shows everyone that the originals and the customs can get along and enjoy each others interest in harmony.

[BUICK RACER]

Well, I haven't seen a Nov Bugle yet! But if all of you would put this much effort into an article on your Buick/s for the Bugle, then there wouldn't be this discussion! Cause the BUGLE would be full of all 'your' tips, brags, and more! BTW, the BCA welcomed race cars, hot rods and the like back in 1966, when Greg and all the rest of the founders were young men and women. Find some of early BUGLE's that were printed in Greg's home and read up on the antics back then! Things change, but then they don't! And if we all liked the same 'stuff', it would be a pretty BORING world, wouldn't it?? Now go write an article about your BUICK, and quit this hubabaloo!! <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[Bill Stoneberg]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The bottom line is that I have beem "raiding the BCA" for years. Harvesting all Buick people intrested in '27, '30 and '50 Buick and collecting then in the groups listed below.

Why?

Because the BCA dose not have a place for them. My free group, like the others, Nailhead Buicks for instance, has over 500 members.

there are:

117 -'27 group members

57 - '30 group members

130- '50 group members

23 - '42 group members

I see great success it these nic'h groups, and it's sad the the BCA is leting them go.

</div></div>

I for one belong to both BCA and frequent one of the Yahoo groups that you claim. I appreciate both sides of the hobby as I have a stock AND a modified Buick.

Dont say there is no place for them as there is and just because they frequent Yahoo, doesn't mean they dont belong to BCA.

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

Tommy, that's some cool 'puter graphics!! Think you can slide the one in the link below next to the 50.

Ya know Tommy, deep down I must say that whenever I see some of the extreme customs I too share your feelings and often think 'oh Harley and Ned, look what they've done to your Buick'. BUT THEN, I remember what Willie Pittman once said and that is 'think "Post Production Concept Cars"'. And that makes me able to live with such as you see in the link below. The exotic streamlined dream cars and experimentals of the 30's thru the early 60's were what Ned Nickles and Harley Earl made Buick and actually GM (Corvette) into what it is today. Well actually what it was up until the 80's or so when everything just got sorta bland. If you ask me I think Buick Motors should be trying to hire some of the guys designing and building the customs of today into their design groups.

These Buicks are so darn "customizable". The exotic lines of the French curves of the body and the sweapspears and the grilles and the headlights and tailights etc. just lend themselves to be played with. Old Buick trim and chrome is in very high demand by customizers for use on other makes of autos not so lucky to have came with such elegant pieces.

I personally think the BCA is totally in the right by admitting modifieds into the club. As is evidenced by the replys thus far, the majority of the members of this forum support it too. Most of us probably check into the yahoo groups you mentioned too, but consider this forum as "home". I have followed a lot of your antics and posts on the AACA and enjoy your musings. I have even asked you to copy us with a couple of them as I thought they would be of interest to us. I respect your feelings and thoughts and encourage you to continue sharing them with us but must ask 'do you have be so negative and always lashing out toward the whole BCA?' I won't hold ya to the old adage of "if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything" but I will ask that you please respect our club members, officers and those that work so hard doing what they feel is right for the general membership of the club. I guess what I'm trying to say is 'you're more than welcome in the house, but how 'bout wipin the dog**** off your shoes before ya come in!. We here love all Buicks.. red, yellow, black or white, they are all beautiful in our site (some just more so than others).

Now, here is the link to the custom 55

[brad54]

I also find it amusing that the Portholes were inspired by a guy who had added them to his personal car. That sounds like customizing, to me.

I'll bet some hot rodders were employed by Buick when the dual carb Straight 8s were designed, too.

And if it weren't for rodders and performance, do you think the 2x4 425 would have been built?

It was exactly Zora Duntov's observations on hot rodders and young car owners/future car buyers that made Chevy go from the stodgy Stove Bolt Pre-55 cars to the V8 of 1955 and all that followed.

I would like to hold Tommy Pete to the Golden Rule. I see nothing wrong with stating your opinion without being insulting and offensive, or having some kind of consequence if you can't do that.

Now let's all go work on our cars.

-Brad

[Guest imported_MrEarl]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Now let's all go work on our cars.

-Brad </div></div>

Just what I played hooky from work to do today as a matter of fact. Still working on cleaning Buttercup. It is so eerie as I am polishing along on the interior to realize, Man this is probably the first time this dash and interior chrome has ever been polished. The only wear on it is a few fingernail scratches on the driver side door panel that came from that lil ol lady on Staten Island that owned it. and then the scratches on the dash and window trim from those idiots that had bought it originally from the estate and commenced to put a CD Stereo in it. The same ones that were so proud of themselve for painting the engine and engine compartment the correct color...only thing is, they painted it with a friggin paint brush. Thank God I rescued her when I did!!

BTW is the link to the 55 Custom what you got in mind for that sweet lil 54 Special of yours.

[brad54]

That '55 is nice for what it is, but not really my style--I prefer something a little less radical. When mine's done, a fella will be able to:

sit in it comfortably!

Change the rear tires without disconnecting the entire rear suspension and dropping it out of the car

drive it over speed bumps

tell it's a '54 Buick!

And mine'll have a 322 Nailhead in it! (a '56, though--darn my hot rodding, car butchering heart!)

Sounds like you're having a good day on the Buick. 'Course, you're probably wishing you had gotten to that task before you could see your breath outside, huh?

-Brad

[6219_Rules]

Well I cannot say that custom '55 is my cup of tea but 'zo geht es zum lesen, nicht whar?'

It is impressive...and if a person is into radical looking designs that would fit. I wonder what Harley Earl would have thought of it? Probably would have liked it!

I must concur with Brad, though...I sure wouldn't like to have to crawl into it. Pat's '67 Mustang is bad enough although worth every minute on the road. <img src="http://www.aaca.org/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Honestly, how would something like that drive? Driving IS part of the equation...how would it handle? I drove a '56 Cadillac and it amazed me for being such a hulking tank...it was nimble and quick. I am just curious.

[Guest]

at least the front clip is good for parts......

[Guest Skyking]

I do agree with Tommy (Pete) on this one.....much to radical!

[Guest herkamer]

Tommy--My custom 55 Buick has 57 Buick back glass (3 Pcs), 53 Buick Headlights, 57 Buick Grill, 56 Buick rear bumper, & 322 Nailhead with 2x4's ( compliments of Brad54). Is is still a Buick? Probably wouldn't be welcome at any buick meet!! The rest of the story would p--- you off!--56 Packard Taillights, no port holes, nosed shaved and decked. It lowered the old fashioned way--no bags and still has the torque tube and dynaflow--Oh Ya! 59 Checy dash--at least it isn't a 350. --NO Skirts--Radius Wheel Well Too Cool. Is it Worthy of Membership in BCA??

[jerryacheson]

Sounds like an illegal Buick to me, but I'd like to see pictures.

[Guest my3buicks]

I would think it sounds legal for the "modified" class - Buick body and Buick powered

[Guest Skyking]

Current price is $1000.00, 2 days left, no bid so far......can that be telling anyone on this forum something?

[Guest my3buicks]

yes it does tell us something!! He should have listed it on a well known site like ebay!!!!

[Smartin]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">yes it does tell us something!! He should have listed it on a well known site like ebay!!!! </div></div>

LOL!!

[Guest]

if you every talk to a car dealer, they will tell you there is an "ass for every seat".

You Kustom guy do dump a lot of money into these cars, and are lucky to get 1/3 back on resale.

The Big hot rod shows draw thosands of hot rods, why can't we have a club of originals?

I don't bring my original car to Kustom shows, it's not about being worthy of the BCA, it's about a focus on preservation.

"taste great, less filling"

[imported_buick5563]

You know Tommy, the same can be said about getting 1/3 back on resale for full restorations. See my post about the chrome shops. If I spent over 5 grand on chrome on my 2 dr. sedan Special I would never see any of that money back. I would be better off parting it out after all is said and done. Not that I would. Old cars of any persuasion is a really expensive hobby, whatever canvas we paint on.

Mike

[Dave@Moon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Old cars of any persuasion is a really expensive hobby, whatever canvas we paint on. </div></div>

Mike, your Special 2dr. sedan is an almost classic case of a car that can be bought mint and hot-rodded at a profit. Your car tops out at about $14K in trailer queen condition. Bought at auction, parted out of the unwanted (rare/expensive/rechromed) stock parts to the tune of about $4K, shave the badges, chop it, and drop in about $4K in top-line performance gear and interior pieces with a $2K monochrome paint slathered over-top and (with skill) you've got an award winning $25K street rod.

It happens every day.

[imported_buick5563]

Dave,

I agree, heck I've seen it. I can't find the picture I took of a 55 sedan at a hot rod show that had all of those things except instead of monochromatic paint it had flames from front to back. You hit the nail on the head. (Get it nail...head, nailhead. I made a funny boy. Thanks Foghorn) I think I would probably be the first guy on earth to actually get 14 grand for my car, and even when finished, it couldn't be a "trailer queen" since it isn't a frame off restoration. Therefore I would be "happy" if I got 10k. This would be a darn nice start to some guys' (or girls') resto-rod.

Oh yeah, why was I at the hot rod show? Cuz I entered my Wildcat. It's modified enough (paint/interior) to be accepted (and win) at hot rod shows, and stock enough to get a driven award at last years National. I like both of my cars equally. Actually the 55 edges it out, but it isn't because it's original, it's because it was the first car I ever owned. But that's just me.

Mike

[Guest]

Maybe I'm all wrong on this issue.....

Below is a modified I'm going to use to join the BMD.

I Think it fits the "requirements" in my first post.