BUICK RACER Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 But Tommy, that looks like an Olds to me, maybe you should contact Jay Leno and see if he wants to put a Chebbie crate motor in that?? TOO! BTW, all those Chebbie crate motors are made in MEXICO! Yuk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Egg on face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad54 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Okay, what's with the Oldstream being posted? The point you're trying to make is....? What, that you don't know what a later model Buick looks like? and here I am continuing to make you the center of attention. Oh well--enjoy if this is all you have.As for the recipe for a hot rod? Way, way off. $2K for a quality paint job? Um, no. That won't get the car in primer ready for topcoat. A single-stage paint job (like on a restoration) is a lot cheaper than a basecoat/clearcoat job. And a true resto paint job doesn't get wet sanded for the final color coat. That's only the middle of a basecoat/clearcoat job. No, a good paint job for your "award winning" rod is going to cost upwards of $4,500-$6,000. If you know someone. And that's not top of the line, either. And it doesn't include any quality custom body work. Custom interior? About the same as a good paint job. Resto guys have the advantage of being able to buy pre-sewn seat covers and door panels, which saves money.Top notch running gear for $4K? That's the entry level for a decent crate engine, and doesn't include a carb, headers, ignition system, alternator, fuel pump or any brackets or pulleys. Yeah, you can build a small block Chevy for lots less, but you can also spend $10grand for one of Bill Mitchel's 454-inch small blocks that are complete from carb to oil pan (but again, no accessories). Trans is another grand to $1500. And since we're converting it to open drivetrain, figure in the cost of a rear end, with all the fabrication.An award winner at a Goodguys show or other national event is upwards of $50grand, and can go all the way to $1million. The "Grand Master" Riddler award winner ('38 Chevy Master Sedan) spent that to build the car. And I know for a fact he drives it all the time, everywhere. The year before a guy spent that much building a totally custom '55 Nomad. Every panel was massaged.Is that typical? Absolutely not. Are those cars going to be sold for that much? Nope. The point? $25 grand isn't a top award winner, it's about the starting point for a well-built car. Actually, on the low side. I'm talking about something that has the attention to detail as a fresh restoration: new wiring, no overspray on the rubber window gaskets, paint taken down to bare metal, frame off, etc. Cheap hot rods are as common as cheap restorations. You know the ones I'm talking about--the grommets on the firewall where the wiring comes through are painted body color, etc.I have a friend who built a '58 Buick. Bright red paint, slightly modified interior, all the stainless trim in place and polished, Nailhead with 3x2 intake, stock trans and rear. Nice car, but most walked past it. The next year, he put Air Ride on it and dropped it on the ground, yet can raise it to drive. 18-inch 5spoke billet aluminum wheels, nice tires, first show out a guy offers him $38K for it. He had several other offers during the year.When's the last time you saw a '58 Buick bring that kind of money? When's the last time a '58 Buick was popular enough to have multiple offers when it's not even for sale? Red, classic lines, mounds of chrome, tastefully customized. I think it's the epitome of the hot rod Buick.Oh yeah, he's 20, did ALL the work with him and his grandfather (including interior, paint and polishing the chrome), and has a '54 Roadmaster he wants to finish next.What's it cost to do a complete, factory-spec rebuild on a 322? I have an idea, since I'm doing one. And it's costing me more to modify it. Talk about throwing money away! I could make more power with a 350 and it'd be cheaper. Heck, I could make more power and the build-up would be cheaper if I did a 401! Don't want to, though. I think a 322 in a '54 will just be fun.People have no problem buying a new car and losing 45% of it's value in the first two years. Why is it, then, that they restore or modify a car, spend more than it's worth, and are afraid to drive it? To each his own. I'm glad not everyone takes the same path I do. It'd be a boring world if we all marched lock-step.And it'd be a nicer world if people didn't worry so much about what other people are doing. As long as you, your family and your property aren't being harmed in any way, why worry about what others are doing? I'll never understand that...Well, gotta go seal the deal on a NOS 322 cam Blank! Gonna have COMP custom grind that puppy with some new technology in terms of lobe profiles and seperation. Should do nicely in my 322. C-Ya!-BradOh yeah--it will take a LOT of evidence to prove to me that Chevrolet's 572-inch big block crate engine is Heche a Mexico. Any crate engine built these days comes with a warranty, and I just can't believe that GM Performance Parts is putting their reputation on the line by having anything less that specialized engine building shops build their crate engines. I've met the heads of GMPP, and talked about doing stories with them following the build of their crate engines--never once was a trip to Mexico, tacos, bottled water or Montezuma's Revenge discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_MrEarl Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Great post there Brad54. Some great lit!! Better watch out or your boss will try and cash in on your time spent. Now who is this with the 54 Roady and just what the **** are they planning to do to this car. Maybe I can convince Tommy to start a "Buick Rescue" and head this f***** off before it's too late. Whaddaya say Tommy? How big is your bank roll? (ok, ok I'll watch the *'s) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 my point is it's not much of a buick at all!But, here is a '27 Turd that is closer to the mark. <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I can have "personal satisfaction, encouraging use of Buick components, (other engines discouraged), and work towards the acceptance of modified Buicks in the BCA." </div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad54 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Okay, so it's an under-construction hot rod with what appears to be a 455?And it acutally looks like it's driveable now. Not pretty, but driveable.So what. It's not restored. It obviously didn't start out as a finished restoration. And it certainly doesn't look like he found a great example of a easily restored car, either. Seems like he found a car that was a basket case and is putting it back on the road in modified form. Isn't that EXACTLY what the restoration crowd has been saying rodders should use as their raw material?Look, you don't like customized cars, you think everyone should restore and preserve these wonderful, priceless artifacts as though they're the Dead Sea Scrolls. You've proven by your writings here that you have no concept of the scarcity or availability of vintage cars, what goes in to making a nice modified car, or even why people would like anything that isn't really old (like your comments about the later-model Buicks making the show field look like a used car lot). To your way of thinking, not only does it have to be a Buick, but it has to be a restored Buick, and it has to be an OLD Buick--nothing late model is worthy. If it isn't any of the above, you start saying an Olds should be allowed in to try and prove some lame point.To my way of thinking, you're a dork. I'm going to find the icon that leads me to the area where I can re-join the BCA for one reason: They are now more open to modified cars than when I was a member 5 years ago, and are putting modified Buicks in their magazine. I might even contribute to the magazine if I can find the time. (That'd be like a guy working overtime for free, but we'll see what happens)I hope you leave the BCA for the exact same reasons.-Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_MrEarl Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I'm going to find the icon that leads me to the area where I can re-join the BCA for one reason: They are now more open to modified cars than when I was a member 5 years ago, and are putting modified Buicks in their magazine. I might even contribute to the magazine if I can find the time. (That'd be like a guy working overtime for free, but we'll see what happens)-Brad </div></div>YeeHaaaa Way to go Tommy. Keep up the good work. Looks like you got us a new member in the Club. Brad54 heres the ICON Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smartin Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I believe that's a 340 in that ...car...thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave@Moon Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> $25 grand isn't a top award winner, it's about the starting point for a well-built car. Actually, on the low side. </div></div> Duhh! Did I say which award? <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> $2K for a quality paint job? Um, no. That won't get the car in primer ready for topcoat. A single-stage paint job (like on a restoration) is a lot cheaper than a basecoat/clearcoat job. And a true resto paint job doesn't get wet sanded for the final color coat. That's only the middle of a basecoat/clearcoat job. No, a good paint job for your "award winning" rod is going to cost upwards of $4,500-$6,000. If you know someone. And that's not top of the line, either. And it doesn't include any quality custom body work. Custom interior? About the same as a good paint job. Resto guys have the advantage of being able to buy pre-sewn seat covers and door panels, which saves money.Top notch running gear for $4K? That's the entry level for a decent crate engine, and doesn't include a carb, headers, ignition system, alternator, fuel pump or any brackets or pulleys. Yeah, you can build a small block Chevy for lots less, but you can also spend $10grand for one of Bill Mitchel's 454-inch small blocks that are complete from carb to oil pan (but again, no accessories). Trans is another grand to $1500. And since we're converting it to open drivetrain, figure in the cost of a rear end, with all the fabrication.</div></div> I like how the concept of doing it oneself or <span style="font-style: italic">being</span> the shop doing the work (therefore only having material costs) for profit just flows overhead like it wasn't there.... <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have a friend who built a '58 Buick. Bright red paint, slightly modified interior, all the stainless trim in place and polished, Nailhead with 3x2 intake, stock trans and rear. Nice car, but most walked past it. The next year, he put Air Ride on it and dropped it on the ground, yet can raise it to drive. 18-inch 5spoke billet aluminum wheels, nice tires, first show out a guy offers him $38K for it. He had several other offers during the year. </div></div> ...for a while anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad54 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 No, the idea of painting a car yourself or owning the shop so only material costs involved didn't just float over my head like it wasn't there. The huge majority of classic car enthusiasts can't paint a car in their own garage. And there aren't all that many guys who can do award-winning bodywork, either. I'll be the first to admit I can't! Yeah, that oldie on the trailer is pretty tough to look at. But it's not a bad starting point for what could turn out to be a decent hot rod. And again, aren't the ugly looking, barely-there, scrap yard refugees the cars the resto crowd WANTS us to use as starting points? The car is on a trailer, and it's a good bet it isn't going to a show, so I'd have to say someone is going down the road in this heap the resto crowd has given their blessings to.Da.....rned if we do, darned if we don't.-Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Dave,It took over 1000 hits on this post, But we got Brad back in the BCA!My Homer Simpson logic worked..... Brad must not have the "card" that says "do the opposite" of tommy says!Since I'm a new owner of a '57 Airstream Overlander, I thought that Ol-stream, the ugliest thing since the MODIFIED 37 Buick that was converted to a camper at the BCA national meet in Flint.But really, any Rodder will tell you wood cars are the worst to Modify because of all the body flexing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad54 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 It really disturbs me that Tommy and I both like Airstreams. Wood bodies pose no problem to a rodder--the old, rotten wood comes out, square and round steel tubing gets welded in, no more body flex. D'oh!I filled out the form, but can't e-mail from this account. I will fax it in or e-mail it tomorrow after work!-Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NTX5467 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Regarding owning a shop and having all of the work done there . . .First, if you have a shop with at least one empty bay that you get all of your car stuff spread out in, that one bay that is NOT making you any money--period. So, add in that lost revenue into the price of what it costs to do the car.Then, if you get some of your employees to work on the car, THEY'll have to be paid too. "Freebies" only go so far and don't put any gas in the tank at the end of the pay period. Local car club members can be a far better place to get free labor and not squawk about it--might cost you some pizza or a steak dinner every so often, though--or help on THEIR projects later on. These club members would have more "buy-in" with the whole project so you know they'd do a better job (labor of love) than an employee working for free, typically.So, it might sound like a "slam dunk deal" to have a shop and do all of the restoration work there, but when you look at all of the details and side issues, about the only real advantage is that you might get a better deal on some of the "normal" hard parts (i.e., mechanical parts). If several of your associates go in together and order a large $$$$ volume of parts, many of the restoration suppliers will cut you a deal equal to or better than they cut their own "distributors"--with or without a shop name per se.Just a few explanations on the "in" deal of owning a shop and fixing your own cars . . .Sorry for making this post and again putting this thread at the top of the list, for those that might care.NTX5467 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Just look how much larger our Nationals can become!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_MrEarl Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hey,where are all the bikini clad car wash gals That's great TommyAnd this picture doesn't even need a caption, we can all imagine what you are implying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-tank Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Hey TommieLooks like my 55 blue and white is in good company. But you need to move the pink and black one so I can get out after washing the car. (and no, I am not wearing a bikini!)Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_buick5563 Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 What's wrong Willie? I got tipping money.Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_MrEarl Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's wrong Willie? I got tipping money.</div></div>God I hope there's no pictures of Wille available that Tommy can slip a bikini on!!! now THAT would be too radiCAL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest my3buicks Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I just wanted to be post 100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnD1956 Posted November 22, 2004 Share Posted November 22, 2004 Sure wish I had half the energy in this series to help out with my Electra...JohnD375756 Super 2 Dr 1969 Electra Limited 2Dr1969 GS 400 Conv.95 Riviera93 Regal custom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now