No Reserve! 1954 Kaiser Darrin 161 2 Door Roadster

[nick8086]

To be sold at auction! No Reserve! 1954 Kaiser Darrin 161 2 Door Roadster, 3 speed manual with overdrive, Vehicle #96, White with white interior All original one owner car to be auctioned at no reserve on June 14th at Schultz Auctioneers located at 11177 Main Street in Clarence NY! Bidding available live in person or live online at www.schultzauctioneers.net

[alsancle]

I always liked the look of these but I worry I'm going to drive one and be disappointed.   Sort of wish KF had beefed up the drivetrain.

[Dr B]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

I always liked the look of these but I worry I'm going to drive one and be disappointed.   Sort of wish KF had beefed up the drivetrain.

With so few made, I am always amazed how many are for sale at any time. I keep wondering why they turn over so often.  Is there something wrong with these cars? Are they poor drivers? Someone please educate me about these cars.

 

Robert

[Malo48]

Probably too rich for my blood but this is a bucket list car for me.  Can't explain why but it speaks to me on some weird level. 

[plymouthcranbrook]

In the 70’s a friend of mine’s Father in Law had one. For a time during a garage renovation it lived in my friend’s garage. I was surprised by how small it was and relatively plain looking. I knew what it was of course but still at the time I wasn’t really impressed.  

[mikewest]

I really dought it will be a true no reserve auction. 

[1957Birdman]

The car was basically a rebodied Henry J. From what I have read, the sliding doors were prone to bind when dirt get into their tracks (makes sense). Those doors meant that the side windows were the side curtain type.  The other thing is that with the engine it has is adequate at best and the car is underpowered. I think there were plans for a V8 (which was sorely needed) but never happened when Kaiser shut down operations. By 1955 it was not match for the Thunderbird and the Corvette, both with V8 power, 4 barrel carbs, and dual exhaust. It still is the ultimate boulevard sport car. Lastly, parts are harder to find for it than for either the Thunderbird or Corvette.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, 1957Birdman said:

The car was basically a rebodied Henry J. From what I have read, the sliding doors were prone to bind when dirt get into their tracks (makes sense). Those doors meant that the side windows were the side curtain type.  The other thing is that with the engine it has is adequate at best and the car is underpowered. I think there were plans for a V8 (which was sorely needed) but never happened when Kaiser shut down operations. By 1955 it was not match for the Thunderbird and the Corvette, both with V8 power, 4 barrel carbs, and dual exhaust. It still is the ultimate boulevard sport car. Lastly, parts are harder to find for it than for either the Thunderbird or Corvette.

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird

And don't forget,  a 55 Vette or 55 T-Bird is no match for an XK140.

[nick8086]

13 hours ago, Dr B said:

With so few made, I am always amazed how many are for sale at any time. I keep wondering why they turn over so often.  Is there something wrong with these cars? Are they poor drivers? Someone please educate me about these cars.

 

Robert

They are for sale because of the age of the owners.. Nothing is wrong with the cars.. The are expense to own..

[kfcarguy]

20 hours ago, Dr B said:

With so few made, I am always amazed how many are for sale at any time. I keep wondering why they turn over so often.  Is there something wrong with these cars? Are they poor drivers? Someone please educate me about these cars.

 

Robert

"so many for sale"...understand that many owners are getting too old to own any type of sports car...time to sell or let the estate sell them

[kfcarguy]

22 hours ago, alsancle said:

I always liked the look of these but I worry I'm going to drive one and be disappointed.   Sort of wish KF had beefed up the drivetrain.

they are indeed fun to dive, especially on great road courses ..This is my Concours d'Elegance winner

Edited May 19 by kfcarguy (see edit history)

[Terry Y]

@kfcarguy

LOOKS FANTASTIC 

[Terry Y]

20 hours ago, mikewest said:

I really dought it will be a true no reserve auction. 

Who knows. I feel confident there will be enough REAL market support to keep it from selling for something silly, like $15,000. The auction house is very well known and has a huge email list.  I do not know them personally, but they often sell antique cars at an estate type auction for more than you could expect to get selling it yourself via facebook,craigslist, hemmings etc. It would be interesting to see if they would accept a couple other old cars to auction after the KF because the old car bidder will be there or participating electronically. 

[Dr B]

13 hours ago, nick8086 said:

They are for sale because of the age of the owners.. Nothing is wrong with the cars.. The are expense to own..

 

6 hours ago, kfcarguy said:

"so many for sale"...understand that many owners are getting too old to own any type of sports car...time to sell or let the estate sell them

Thanks for the responses, but I don't know if I believe the "owners getting old and selling"  explanation. I've been hearing that there will be a tsunami of old cars for sale as the previous generation of collectors dies off.  I'm still waiting to see that happen (not the deaths mind you but the tsunami of cars for sale).  Seems all the cars on my list never or rarely come up for sale and the numbers produced were similar or more than the Kaiser Darrin's and many on my list are either older pre-war cars or sports cars. Again, for this car, the number for sale at any one time seems to far exceed the number produced and extant compared to other cars of that or older vintages.

 

Just my (correct or incorrect) observation.

 

Robert

[Terry Y]

4 minutes ago, Dr B said:

 

Thanks for the responses, but I don't know if I believe the "owners getting old and selling"  explanation. I've been hearing that there will be a tsunami of old cars for sale as the previous generation of collectors dies off.  I'm still waiting to see that happen (not the deaths mind you but the tsunami of cars for sale).  Seems all the cars on my list never or rarely come up for sale and the numbers produced were similar or more than the Kaiser Darrin's and many on my list are either older pre-war cars or sports cars. Again, for this car, the number for sale at any one time seems to far exceed the number produced and extant compared to other cars of that or older vintages.

 

Just my (correct or incorrect) observation.

 

Robert

Well, now you have to tell us your list of cars you want to buy. Then,if I know this board, they will find you a Tsunami of exactly what you want !!  If not a Tsunami, at least a stiff breeze !

[alsancle]

Desirable stuff will always find a home. And there are always dealers at every auction, ready to scoop something up at wholesale. Regardless of the engine, these are desirable cars. And no way selling for 20,000 bucks.

[58L-Y8]

The Kaiser Darrins, like other special sporty or luxury models such as the 1940-'48 Lincoln Continentals, were being picked up early from the used car cycle by marque enthusiasts/collectors which accounts for the relatively high survival rates.  It seemed as if every K-F collector had at least one or two tucked away in his collection, frequently with parts from others that were beyond saving complete.  

[Dr B]

5 hours ago, Terry Y said:

Well, now you have to tell us your list of cars you want to buy. Then,if I know this board, they will find you a Tsunami of exactly what you want !!  If not a Tsunami, at least a stiff breeze !

If I tell everyone my list, I'm worried everyone will think "hey, those are really interesting cars, I should think about getting one of those". Then I'll never get them!!! 

 

Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they are not after me! 😂

 

Robert

[jimkf]

I own a Darrin and I can tell you they are a blast to drive. You get looks from everyone as you roll down the road and you're guaranteed to be the only one in a sea of Covettes, Camaros and Mustangs at your local show.

 

The Darrin uses a 161 f-head Willys designed six cylinder engine that boasts all of 90 hp. It doesn't sound like much but it'll move the 2175 lb car along at a pretty good clip.

 

There was mention that the Darrin was basically a rebodied Henry J. While they did share a few components, front suspension, steering parts and rear springs, just about everything else was unique to the fiberglass bodied car. The frame ahead of the seat back was Henry J but aft of that was unique to the Darrin. It used the larger Kaisers 10 inch brakes which will haul the car to a stop in a hurry. The Borg Warner R10 overdrive transmission keeps rpms down on the road and helps the car deliver over 20 mpg. And let's not forget those sliding doors. 

 

Regarding the number for sale, about 10 years ago a few popped up at Barret-Jackson for sale. An oddity then, they brought big money that was sustained for several years but as well heeled collectors do, they rotate stock. Several for sale drove selling prices down a bit to where they are today. 

 

In the market? Buy the best you can afford. Many of the pot metal parts are unobtainium which makes a restoration more difficult. Fortunately, if you have a complete car, getting it back on the road won't be as difficult as you think. Both of my Darrins were barn finds with the first on the road in a few days and the other shortly after we rebuilt the engine. Yes, drivetrain parts are available.

 

I have the most fun driving my Darrin to Corvette night at our local cruise in. The Tuesday evening show routinely draws 500-600 cars and I wait until it's about half full and then park next the nicest Corvette I can find. In short order, the owner leaves or moves because no one stops to look at their car after spotting the Darrin. What fun!

[nick8086]

Here is two more.. not mine.. Not sure if they are a deal or a money pit..

Edited May 22 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[theconvertibleguy]

That would definitely be a head turner for sure. I wonder how hard it'd be to fix those doors, never seen doors like that before. Parts sound like it'd be hell on earth to find.

[nick8086]

It sold..

[theconvertibleguy]

Compared to the other prices this sounds like it was a deal

[kfcarguy]

On 5/19/2024 at 12:54 AM, nick8086 said:

They are for sale because of the age of the owners.. Nothing is wrong with the cars.. The are expense to own..

How do you think they are expensive to own? Other than tires, I haven't put $500 in mine in 16 years and 17,00 miles!!!

[kfcarguy]

8 hours ago, theconvertibleguy said:

Compared to the other prices this sounds like it was a deal

it was indeed

[The 55er]

Not sure what your 17,00 mile statement means but if you haven't spent $500 on your antique car over 16 years and maybe 17,000??? miles you are really fortunate and doing something right! I maintain six collector type vehicles that I drive frequently and I'm sure in sixteen years I pay more than that on upkeep for each one (I'm not counting tires either) and I do my own repairs. All are increasingly more expensive to maintain today than just a few years ago. I try to stay ahead of things, I've been hoarding replacement parts for years but sixteen years worth of batteries, insurance, and oil, filter and antifreeze changes can add up quickly. Then there's an occasional tune-up, some normal wear & tear item stuff like brakes, belts & hoses, a typical fuel or water pump or electrical system repair, a leaky radiator or a muffler replacement just add to the expenses..........Seriously, I envy you and I wish I had the consistent good luck like you've had with all my cars. I wish you all the best, here's to sixteen more great years for you and your car. 

[nick8086]

How do you think they are expensive to own? Other than tires, I haven't put $500 in mine in 16 years and 17,00 miles!!!

 

I may a few more cars than most.. I think I pay around 2k a year just for insurance,  For the last 12 years I have payed 24k.

 

I may have payed 120k just in taxes over the last 12 years for my house to just keep the cars....   The 500.00 comment does not take into account of total cost of  ownership..

 

Car trailer..,truck, gas, repairs, taxes, storage and insurance.

 

In 2015 I payed 2.00 dollars for a 2 by 6.. Now I have to pay a lot more.. If I build a new garage  I will have the most expense one on the block.. 2024..

 

 

Edited June 17 by nick8086 (see edit history)

[kfcarguy]

17 hours ago, The 55er said:

Not sure what your 17,00 mile statement means but if you haven't spent $500 on your antique car over 16 years and maybe 17,000??? miles you are really fortunate and doing something right! I maintain six collector type vehicles that I drive frequently and I'm sure in sixteen years I pay more than that on upkeep for each one (I'm not counting tires either) and I do my own repairs. All are increasingly more expensive to maintain today than just a few years ago. I try to stay ahead of things, I've been hoarding replacement parts for years but sixteen years worth of batteries, insurance, and oil, filter and antifreeze changes can add up quickly. Then there's an occasional tune-up, some normal wear & tear item stuff like brakes, belts & hoses, a typical fuel or water pump or electrical system repair, a leaky radiator or a muffler replacement just add to the expenses..........Seriously, I envy you and I wish I had the consistent good luck like you've had with all my cars. I wish you all the best, here's to sixteen more great years for you and your car. 

I did not include items that would be required on any car, e.g., insurance, oil, fuel, batteries.  I understood the point made by nick8086, is that the Darrin in particular is expensive to keep.  My point is that it is not.  Even thou my car is a Concours winner, I enjoy it and drive it.  I drove it to the Concours, took my award, and drove it back home!  Until this year, I could only drive the car to/from shows and repair shops because of my vintage license plate. Now, in the state of Michigan, those with vintage plates can drive anywhere/any time from Memorial Day thru Labor Day.  I t is very difficult to understand nick's comment, because from what I understand, he does not drive his cars.

[nick8086]

I t is very difficult to understand nick's comment, because from what I understand, he does not drive his cars.

 

I been on the road for the last two years..

 

I caught this on my cameras of someone driving one of my cars..

 

Edited June 18 by nick8086 (see edit history)