Brass era road regulations, inspired by Tall Tires and Large Displacement Engines

[nsbrassnut]

Hi All

 

This one is inspired by the discussion on the Tall Tires and Large Displacement Engines thread.

 

I decided to start another thread to avoid drifting too far off topic in the other one.

 

Follow up on the discussion around the road regulations and speed limits for the brass era. I remembered that I had seen a summary of some of then in the Blue Book travel guides for this period. So I went back to my library shelf and dug out two that I have. One from 1912 and one from 1919. These ones cover mostly the New England states, but also include some notes about the Canadian Maritime provinces (which I why I picked them up).

 

The regulations from 1912 suggest that the average speed limits were in the range of 5 to 8 mph in town and between 15 and 20 in the country. So when we go touring we are likely running many of our cars well over the speeds that they typically saw back then.

 

Here are some pictures of from the notes in the 1912 Blue Book. Hopefully you can read most of it.

[nsbrassnut]

And as a follow up, here are the similar notes from the 1919 Blue Book.

 

Many of the speed limits have increased. But not by much, the average country speed is still only 30 mph.

 

 

[mechanician]

My contention, based partially on the evidence of the cars themselves, is that drivers were running well above the speed limits then (as today). Based on the cars that I have driven, I suspect around 30. Most cars would be lugging at 15 mph on anything with a slight grade or would be screaming in second/low. Why would the sweet spot of operation be so commonly apart from the condition where they were normally operated…I don’t think it was.
 

Not everywhere and not all the time, some road conditions were terrible. Even these road conditions were likely not as bad as we might tend to think on main roads in the northeast and around major cities elsewhere. Between cities, in the far west, and certainly when driving long distances, roads were certainly poor. Intercity travel was by rail. Automobiles were generally driven within a region, within those regions I contend most roads were at least in the condition of modern dirt roads.  Dirt roads are uncommon today around me. They receive very, very little maintenance, and certainly nothing that couldn’t have been done easily in 1900. Still, my statement about speeds applies to these modern dirt roads as well. For that matter the advantages of the modern cars are lessened on these dirt roads so much so that almost everyone ends up going around 30, antique or modern.

 

so what does that mean about tour speeds. I don’t know. I contend 30-35 isn’t too fast for the cars, or even out of line for how they were used in period, but some tours like to run faster. Some a lot faster. In rural areas of the northeast it is perfectly reasonable to drive 30-35, with reasonable forethought about the route. Excessive tour speeds may be driven more by ego than any other reason. In other parts of the country, where the roads weren’t laid out before the industrial revolution, the situation might be different.

[edinmass]

 

Going fast pre 1920 simply wasn't much of an option. Toss in all the nails from the horses on the road, and tires that were easily damaged at speed. 

[Walt G]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Going fast pre 1920 simply wasn't much of an option. Toss in all the nails from the horses on the road, and tires that were easily damaged at speed. 

ED - Glad you mention this, Although we collect and own cars of assorted vintage and eras most rarely take into consideration what the era/times/conditions were like in the year the car we own was new or near new. Paved roads were very very unusual - also most in larger populated areas had trolley tracks running down the middle so that had to be taken into consideration with the narrow tires as well.

Most everyone reading this is used to paved, wider roads with curbs. The interstate highways did not come into favor until the Eisenhower administration was in office. Homes and buildings were heated by firewood and coal, ashes were deposited at the edge of the road that had no curbs. Even in more upscale villages!!!! 

Walt

Edited May 15 by Walt G (see edit history)

[Lee H]

Also keep in mind that the people legislating these speeds had to accommodate the fact that horse drawn conveyances were everywhere at the time, and speeds considerably in excess of that could be, and was quite dangerous in mixed traffic. Especially with two wheel brakes. 
 

 

[edinmass]

 

Walt....in my hometown till the 60's they spread ashes on the roads instead of salt..........burn wood, and the nails and staples still come through with the ashes. Even with a magnet to try and get most of them out. Also, just think how many tires a Pierce 66 or Olds Limited would rip up turning and driving at speed back in the day. Tires wouldn't last long. Remember the old "cost per miles" figures that were quoted for owning a car? Even back in the 20's tires were a LARGE part of the cost of owning a car. Registration and insurance were pennies. Gasoline, tires, and batteries were expensive and simply didn't last very long. 

[Layden B]

Car tires! Think of the horses that died from stepping on nails! Most areas of the country had a strict ban on ashes in the street.

[ABear]

1 hour ago, Layden B said:

Car tires! Think of the horses that died from stepping on nails! Most areas of the country had a strict ban on ashes in the street.

Obviously you have no experience with horses..

 

Horse hooves are pretty much as tough as nails to start with, and nails are what is used to hold the horse shoes on with..

 

Ban on ashes thrown on streets, yeah, like that happened back then.. Ashes used on streets in my area were used especially in the winter on icy and snow covered roads as a means to increase winter traction and as a natural ice and snow melter when the sun peaked out during the day up on small roads and streets until most places that used coal were forced to convert to natural gas and that was in the 1980's-1990's..

 

Back in the early 1900's, nails in ashes from burning wood would have been nearly non existent (typically scrap wood from torn down buildings wasn't used for heating) and coal would have been also used for heating homes where possible.

 

Nails from horse shoes and even horse drawn wagons and buggies would have been more likely to have been an issue than ashes.

 

I still use wood ash from my wood burner on my driveway when possible to reduce my usage of salt in the winter. But I don't burn anything like wood from used skids or old building materials as that small stuff burns to fast to be worth the effort of having to constantly refill the woodburner every hr.

[Layden B]

It is not the horseshoe area that is the problem! Yes that is tough and it takes the dogs hours to chew up the parings from new shoes. It is one well ( or badly) placed nail stepped on and driven up thru the bone and nerve in the center that will permanently make the horse lame and thus off to the glue factory!

[Rusty_OToole]

Anyone else remember the Banner Dustless Ash Sifter? A galvanized steel bin with a rocker bottom and wire mesh screen on top. Used to sift out the ashes, and save any unburned coal or charcoal, also removed most of the nails and hardware. I suppose at one time they were common around houses with coal furnaces and wood stoves.

 

[Terry Harper]

22 hours ago, Walt G said:

ED - Glad you mention this, Although we collect and own cars of assorted vintage and eras most rarely take into consideration what the era/times/conditions were like in the year the car we own was new or near new. Paved roads were very very unusual - also most in larger populated areas had trolley tracks running down the middle so that had to be taken into consideration with the narrow tires as well.

Most everyone reading this is used to paved, wider roads with curbs. The interstate highways did not come into favor until the Eisenhower administration was in office. Homes and buildings were heated by firewood and coal, ashes were deposited at the edge of the road that had no curbs. Even in more upscale villages!!!! 

Walt

Hello Walt,

I cannot imagine wrestling a large brass-era automobile  - or even worse a heavy-laden, hard rubber-tired truck over a rutted or soft country road for mile after mile. 

[58L-Y8]

Although the topography in flatter, drier regions might have afforded more opportunities to tour at consistently higher speeds, such was not the case in rolling and hilly topography with myriad springs and creeks to cross or compromise the solid road surface.  Early roads followed property lines, turned wherever necessary, curved and even switched-back to climb hills. 

In a three-mile route just west of my location, the road crossed a low swampy area, surmounted a knoll, ran 2/10 mile straight, descended a curving hollow, crossed a creek into a small settlement.  After an intersection with another road, ran straight 3/10 mile, crossing the creek twice, to another intersection, turned right along the creek-paralleling road for a 1/10 mile, turned left up another creek valley, crossed it, surmounted a steeper hill and finally intersected with a main road between towns.   Narrow bridges, spring-softened hillside sections, discontinuities to cross railroads at grade or over dry bridges, following property lines was how motorist had to negotiate any trip.  Any burst of speed was rare, conditions wouldn't allow it. 

[ABear]

15 hours ago, Layden B said:

It is not the horseshoe area that is the problem! Yes that is tough and it takes the dogs hours to chew up the parings from new shoes. It is one well ( or badly) placed nail stepped on and driven up thru the bone and nerve in the center that will permanently make the horse lame and thus off to the glue factory!

Same can be said about rocks of all shapes, sizes and sharpness, not to mention other sharp trash like glass, tin, metals of all kind that would have been found in the rutted up roads of those times.

 

And yes, I grew up around horses, have watched them get new shoes more times than I have ever had to buy new tires for my vehicles all my life.

 

Horses have one "tender" spot, the triangular shaped area (see pix below), the rest of the hoof not so much, the chances are horses would become "lame" due to bruising and infection of the tender spot because of the fact that they were often ridden on rocky terrain or encountered a lot of rocks in the roads..

 

People see the muddy roads in old pictures, but don't realize that there were a lot of rocks well hidden in the soft muddy mess..

[Terry Harper]

Post Great War but still relevant. Here is an article from "The Highway Magazine", January 1927

[Terry Harper]

Maine, 1906.

 

In addition there were laws that also applied to teams

[Rusty_OToole]

From reading early (pre 1910) accounts of motor trips it seems deep sand was the bane of the motorist. Sand did not bother horse drawn vehicles, and so if you asked for the best road to the next town would often find yourself on a road that was almost impassable to cars.