32buick67 Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Anyone have a tech thought as to why engine oil, specifically high zinc ZDDP oil prices are almost 2x higher vs 6 months ago? Supply-demand? Metal futures? Resources? Low production? ??? Trying to be a-political.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Inflation #1, Everybody ate Zinc during the pandemic and used up all the reserves #2. I have no other ideas. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wells Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 The petroleum marketeers went out to McDonald's for lunch, were surprised by the $25. "Meal Deals" and said, "we can do this"...and did. McDonald's Customers Shocked by Price of $25 Meal Deal A new viral video highlighted the price of a meal bundle in one part of the U.S., sparking debate. https://www.eatthis.com/mcdonalds-customers-shocked-by-price-of-meal-deal/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABear Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Have you considered that most if not all "high zinc" oils are directly pointed towards racing applications? Most "high zinc" oils are typically more expensive designer brands.. Here is a chart that gives zinc levels for many of the known high zinc level oils.. https://static.speedwaymotors.com/images/SMI-Oil-Chart.pdf?_gl=1*1fif5ym*_ga*MTY5NDYxMzgwOS4xNzEwNjk2NDI3*_ga_9NTXM7BJK3*MTcxMzM3MjUxNi4zLjEuMTcxMzM3MjYyMi4yOC4wLjA. Generally, unless you have a specific need like flat tappets and/or high spring rates like found in heavily modified built up racing engines for most part the high zinc levels is not needed. You can also buy oils which have ZDDP in them, although at lower levels than the boutique brands at more affordable prices.. Example Shell Rotella T is listed in the chart above, can be bought for equivalent of $5.82/qt in 1 gallon jug ($23.29 at amazon) https://www.amazon.com/Shell-Rotella-Synthetic-1-Gallon-Single-Pack/dp/B01LH7L0KS?th=1 Hint, for BETTER pricing, buy in gallon or 5qt jugs, you will get a better price break over individual qt bottles. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Peterson Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 2 minutes ago, ABear said: Generally, unless you have a specific need like flat tappets and/or high spring rates like found in heavily modified built up racing engines for most part the high zinc levels is not needed. ^^^^ This 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Boudway Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 My Chrysler and the wife's Corvair both get shell Rotella Much cheaper than an engine rebuild. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABear Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 10 minutes ago, Bill Boudway said: My Chrysler and the wife's Corvair both get shell Rotella Much cheaper than an engine rebuild. Your Chrysler and Packard were built well before ZDDP was "invented".. Here is some history on ZDDP.. https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2012/03/zddp-when-where-what-why-how/ "In 1941, the oil and gasoline additive company Lubrizol developed Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphates, or ZDDP. Commonly referred to simply as “Zinc” in today’s vernacular. ZDDP was first used in low concentrations (less than .3%) as a bearing passivator (meaning “to treat or coat a metal in order to reduce the chemical reactivity of its surface”). It also acts as an oil anti-oxidant. In addition, it was found to be a remarkably effective anti-wear agent, a true extreme pressure or EP additive for heavily loaded steel-on-steel sliding mechanisms such as camshafts and valve lifters or tappets. For years, these additives provided sufficient anti-wear service in the early days of gasoline non-detergent motor oils." Granted, when you vehicles were built, there weren't "detergents" being added either, higher detergent levels can to a degree cause some added wear to SOME bearing surfaces (which is why ZDDP was added) over all pretty much any engine oil could be used as modern engine oils are far more refined, much cleaner and have better additives that what was available when your vehicles were built. Rotella T is highly regarded by many diesel vehicle owners but not really needed in most gas powered engines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trulyvintage Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 After running many brands of oil in regular - semi and full synthetic .... This what I run in my OBS Ford CC 7.3 PSD .... About $26 for a 5 quart jug at Walmart retail stores Jin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32buick67 Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 My question is not related to application to tappets and engine types or Powell's influence, that is probably trivial and obvious to those who are learned and experienced, what I am pondering is related to macroeconomically WHY recently (6mos) the high-zinc oils are substantially higher cost (2x+) recently vs modern previously stocked engine oils. Supply-demand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Thoreson Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 I just use Quaker State High Mileage oil in my flatheads. Never had a wear problem. The big advantage of the modern oils is they keep contaminants in suspension so they can better be filtered out and they don't make the sludge you would see in old cars that used nondetergent oils. Zinc additives can be purchased if your need warrants. A rigorous oil change schedule is as important as anything. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Bruce aka First Born Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Did you REALLY expect an answer, 32? Ben 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch1929 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 9 hours ago, 32buick67 said: WHY recently (6mos) the high-zinc oils are substantially higher cost (2x+) recently vs modern previously stocked engine oils. Supply-demand? Just like McDonalds, because they can! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABear Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 10 hours ago, 32buick67 said: My question is not related to application to tappets and engine types or Powell's influence, that is probably trivial and obvious to those who are learned and experienced, what I am pondering is related to macroeconomically WHY recently (6mos) the high-zinc oils are substantially higher cost (2x+) recently vs modern previously stocked engine oils. Supply-demand? Well, when "everyone's" base wages are artificially forced to go up, forcing the costs of making goods go up, what do you think a company is going to do? Companies are not "charities", they are in the game to make enough sales to create enough profit over costs to stay in business. Companies can only afford to "absorb" increased costs for short period of time, then they face the choice of reducing how much you get (shrinkflation) which is pretty tough to do given some items are sold in set sizes like quarts. So, in reality, the companies eventually HAVE to pass the added cost of goods and services on to the next in line in the sales chain which is the wholesaler.. The wholesalers cost to buy goes up, the wholesaler also has increased costs pressure associated with labor, trucking, fuel and they pass that extra cost on to the retailer, retailer has higher costs to buy said product plus labor, electric bills, phone bills, internet bills, heating bills, insurance bills and labor.. So the retailer is also forced to increase the prices.. Yeah, there are "economists" out there that don't believe any of that is true and businesses should never make any profit.. That model is called "charity" and that is how we got where we are today. Oil prices over all are up, not just ZDDP added oils, if I were to buy a single quart of 10W-30 in store right now it is priced at $7-$8 per quart. I can buy a 5qt jg for $21 which is $4.20 per qt. It isn't just oils either, pretty much everything has drastically increase over what it was over the last yr. Heck a 2 ltr bottle of soda pop is averaging $3.69 each, last yr at this time it was $1.75 per 2 ltr.. No sense complaining, it is too late for that, that Genie has been let of the bottle and the ship has sailed. Not to mention, you do have a choice in oils, you really have nothing that really requires a more expensive oil and more expensive does not always equal "better" or "longer life". 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
32buick67 Posted April 20 Author Share Posted April 20 Now, now, I wasn't complaining about modern prices, especially broad-brushed inflation topics like cheese burgers, but instead I was actually asking a genuine and innocent learning question of those who are experts and engineers and sales folks who are in the automotive oil markets or oil futures markets to provide insights and education about supply chains and market economics regarding metals and oils. I am trying to learn, like many others, despite sarcasm and mockery...as a wily engineer with many years of experience, I am not naive or ignorant, but I am humble enough to like to learn from those who are willing to teach... After some extensive and mile-deep research, I think I found out what is happening to recent ZDDP zinc-based oils vs non-zinc based oils. <2023 resulted in an oversupply of zinc, and emerging 2024 is lending to a correction, hence the overpriced high-zinc anything, included ZDDP oils, far beyond other motor oil price escalation which has lower zinc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 On 4/18/2024 at 10:26 PM, 32buick67 said: My question is not related to application to tappets and engine types or Powell's influence, that is probably trivial and obvious to those who are learned and experienced, what I am pondering is related to macroeconomically WHY recently (6mos) the high-zinc oils are substantially higher cost (2x+) recently vs modern previously stocked engine oils. Supply-demand? Three years ago before the current Washington policies, the cheap oil that I use in my old cars from Sam's Club was $19.95/12 quart case. It is now $38.95. What is there to discuss? The price of everything is up and not limited to zinc added oils. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcslr Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 I appreciate your desire to understand why. Personally, I find that attempting to reduce an extremely nuanced and complex topic into an 8 second sound bite sentence isn’t capable or realistic. certainly the long duration of low inflation then the world shattering pandemic created inflationary pressures across the board. Wage increase, pent-up demand, supply chain issues, shipping uncertainty (esp Red Sea), wars, shareholder expectations, political turmoil, climate impacts, immigration - all contribute. Some more than others but to really understand - all need to be considered. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted April 21 Share Posted April 21 If you think only the USA has high inflation, look for a comparative chart of post-pandemic inflation rates in Europe vs US. As painful as it is for us, the European countries have it considerably worse. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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