Older vs newer headlights

[Frank DuVal]

1 hour ago, Bloo said:

Those have a European pattern, a very good choice in my opinion. You can have more range on low beam, while blinding oncoming traffic far less.

By this do you mean the low beams are shining left of the high beam, i.e. blinding to oncoming drivers here in the US? Or is there a British standard*, which is the left shining low beam? I just realized the mainland Europe drives on the right like us. Oops.😧

 

* and Rodney's country too!

Edited October 25, 2023 by Frank DuVal (see edit history)

[Bloo]

European standard headlights have a kickup at the right (see the picture I posted earlier in the thread). There are opposite versions with a kickup on the left for the UK, who were until recently in the EU. Those work nicely in countries who drive on the same side as the UK does, like Australia, etc. Note the arrow cast in the glass on the picture of the Autopal light.

[Anthonyp]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:18 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Speaking of state safety inspections, checking headlamp aiming is part of it. And if it fails then they know how to correct it, usually, as it is a chargeable repair and they don't like letting money walk out of the door!

 

 

B. Aiming the headlamps.

1. Inspectors shall rely on their education, training, and experience to determine if the headlamps are properly aimed. If improper alignment is observed, headlamps shall be checked for proper aim by using an optical headlamp aimer, except on vehicles equipped with on-board aimers.

Headlamp aim on vehicles with on-board aimers shall be checked by visually examining the leveling device mounted either on or adjacent to the headlamp. Reject the vehicle if the leveling device shows the headlamp adjustment to exceed indicated specifications.

NOTE: Driving lamp and fog lamps must be visually inspected to ensure proper aiming. If improper alignment is observed, the optical aimer shall be used to correct any misalignment.

2. Headlamps are not aimed within the following tolerances using the optical aimer.

a. The center of the hot spot of all single element high beam lamps is set more than four inches up or down from the horizontal centerline or more than four inches to the left or right from the vertical centerline.

b. The left edge of the lamp pattern of any low beam lamp or any combination or multi-element lamp is more than four inches to the left or right of the vertical centerline or the top edge of the lamp pattern is more than four inches above or below the horizontal centerline when checked on low beam.

C. Optical aimer.

1. Optical aimers must be properly calibrated and used in the manner recommended by the manufacturer.

The optical headlamp machine must be aligned to the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications.

2. When aiming headlamps, first look for the type of lamp, which will be found embossed on the lens. The type determines which aiming requirements must be followed for the optical aimer.

3. All low beam or combination/multi-element headlamps must be set by aiming the lamp pattern with the lamps set on low beam.

NOTE: If attempting to align a composite or sealed beam lamp with a high and low beam within the same housing, align only the low beam. If aligning a four-lamp system with high and low beams in separate housings, it may be necessary to cover the low beam while aligning the high beam, if all four lamps are on at the same time.

4. Pattern should be aimed so that the left edge does not extend to the left or right of straight ahead, and the top of the pattern should be even with the horizontal.

Pattern "A" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimer when checking the low-beam pattern on a single element headlamp or a combination multi-element headlamp.

5. All VOL and VOR headlamps will be aimed as follows:

To properly aim a combination multi-element or low-beam VOL or VOR headlamp assembly, the headlamp pattern should be aimed on low beam only.

Letters marked on the headlamp cover should properly identify VOL and VOR headlamps.

NOTE: VOL and VOR headlamps will normally have only one adjustment, which will be for the vertical aim only. The horizontal aim should be disregarded, as the horizontal aim is preset at the factory.

6. All single element high beam headlamps shall be set by aiming the center of the hot spot with the lamps set on high beam.

7. Aim straight ahead-center of the hot spot should be centered with the vertical and horizontal centerlines.

Pattern "B" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimers.

8. When lamp pairs are mounted horizontally, the low beam lamp must be on the outer side and when mounted vertically, the low beam lamp must be at the higher position in the pair.

9. The four headlamp system must be wired so that only the lower beam lamp will burn when the light beams are depressed. When switched to high beams, both high beam and low beam may burn.

The "F" type halogen headlamp 1986 (LF-UF) of the four headlamp system will function in the following manner: system must be used so the low beam does not burn with the high beam.

D. Headlamps on vehicles used for snow removal. Approved auxiliary headlamps may be mounted above the conventional headlamps. (These lamps must be in compliance with this section in its entirety, subdivision 7 of 19VAC30-70-150, and 19VAC30-70-170.)

E. Inspect for and reject if:

1. Lamps are not an approved type as previously indicated in subdivision A 6 of this section.

2. Lamps are not mounted in a manner that will permit proper aiming.

3. Lamps are mounted so as to obstruct the driver's vision.

4. The auxiliary headlamp circuit does not contain a switch that will deactivate the primary headlamp system when the auxiliary headlamps are in use.

5. Auxiliary headlamps are not aimed in accordance with the provisions of subdivision B 2 of this section.

6. Headlamps are not wired in accordance with the provisions of subdivision C 8 of this section.

NOTE: Light patterns shown in the following diagram will be displayed on the most recently approved light machines produced by Hopkins and Symtech Corporations.

HEADLAMP PATTERNS

NOTE: Always inspect the following sealed beam and replaceable bulb and integral beam headlamps on LOW BEAM only:

- 5-3/4 inch, marked 2, 2C, or 2C1

- 7 inch, marked 2, 2D, or 2D1

- 100 X 165mm rectangular, marked 2A, 2A1, or 2E1, 2G1 or 2H1

- 200 X 142mm rectangular, marked 2B or 2B1

- Replaceable bulb headlamp, marked LF with 9004 (HB1)

- 92 X 160mm rectangular, marked LF

- Replaceable bulb headlamps with 9006 (HB4) alone or in combination with 9005 (HB3)

- 55 X 135mm rectangular, marked L

- Integral beam headlamp when high and low beam reflectors move together.

According to the DMV inspection regulations noted, acceptable headlight aim, the headlamps are permitted to be aimed up to 4” above the horizontal line and 4” to the left of the vertical line, which permits the headlight beam to be aimed toward the oncoming driver. And though 4” does not sound like much, with the brighter halogen, HID, and LED type lights, that 4” is compounded. As well as LED headlights being extremely bright, the LED has a higher blue light spectrum, which the pupil does not react to, permitting the light to enter unrestricted.  

[Anthonyp]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:18 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Speaking of state safety inspections, checking headlamp aiming is part of it. And if it fails then they know how to correct it, usually, as it is a chargeable repair and they don't like letting money walk out of the door!

 

 

B. Aiming the headlamps.

1. Inspectors shall rely on their education, training, and experience to determine if the headlamps are properly aimed. If improper alignment is observed, headlamps shall be checked for proper aim by using an optical headlamp aimer, except on vehicles equipped with on-board aimers.

Headlamp aim on vehicles with on-board aimers shall be checked by visually examining the leveling device mounted either on or adjacent to the headlamp. Reject the vehicle if the leveling device shows the headlamp adjustment to exceed indicated specifications.

NOTE: Driving lamp and fog lamps must be visually inspected to ensure proper aiming. If improper alignment is observed, the optical aimer shall be used to correct any misalignment.

2. Headlamps are not aimed within the following tolerances using the optical aimer.

a. The center of the hot spot of all single element high beam lamps is set more than four inches up or down from the horizontal centerline or more than four inches to the left or right from the vertical centerline.

b. The left edge of the lamp pattern of any low beam lamp or any combination or multi-element lamp is more than four inches to the left or right of the vertical centerline or the top edge of the lamp pattern is more than four inches above or below the horizontal centerline when checked on low beam.

C. Optical aimer.

1. Optical aimers must be properly calibrated and used in the manner recommended by the manufacturer.

The optical headlamp machine must be aligned to the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications.

2. When aiming headlamps, first look for the type of lamp, which will be found embossed on the lens. The type determines which aiming requirements must be followed for the optical aimer.

3. All low beam or combination/multi-element headlamps must be set by aiming the lamp pattern with the lamps set on low beam.

NOTE: If attempting to align a composite or sealed beam lamp with a high and low beam within the same housing, align only the low beam. If aligning a four-lamp system with high and low beams in separate housings, it may be necessary to cover the low beam while aligning the high beam, if all four lamps are on at the same time.

4. Pattern should be aimed so that the left edge does not extend to the left or right of straight ahead, and the top of the pattern should be even with the horizontal.

Pattern "A" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimer when checking the low-beam pattern on a single element headlamp or a combination multi-element headlamp.

5. All VOL and VOR headlamps will be aimed as follows:

To properly aim a combination multi-element or low-beam VOL or VOR headlamp assembly, the headlamp pattern should be aimed on low beam only.

Letters marked on the headlamp cover should properly identify VOL and VOR headlamps.

NOTE: VOL and VOR headlamps will normally have only one adjustment, which will be for the vertical aim only. The horizontal aim should be disregarded, as the horizontal aim is preset at the factory.

6. All single element high beam headlamps shall be set by aiming the center of the hot spot with the lamps set on high beam.

7. Aim straight ahead-center of the hot spot should be centered with the vertical and horizontal centerlines.

Pattern "B" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimers.

8. When lamp pairs are mounted horizontally, the low beam lamp must be on the outer side and when mounted vertically, the low beam lamp must be at the higher position in the pair.

9. The four headlamp system must be wired so that only the lower beam lamp will burn when the light beams are depressed. When switched to high beams, both high beam and low beam may burn.

The "F" type halogen headlamp 1986 (LF-UF) of the four headlamp system will function in the following manner: system must be used so the low beam does not burn with the high beam.

D. Headlamps on vehicles used for snow removal. Approved auxiliary headlamps may be mounted above the conventional headlamps. (These lamps must be in compliance with this section in its entirety, subdivision 7 of 19VAC30-70-150, and 19VAC30-70-170.)

E. Inspect for and reject if:

1. Lamps are not an approved type as previously indicated in subdivision A 6 of this section.

2. Lamps are not mounted in a manner that will permit proper aiming.

3. Lamps are mounted so as to obstruct the driver's vision.

4. The auxiliary headlamp circuit does not contain a switch that will deactivate the primary headlamp system when the auxiliary headlamps are in use.

5. Auxiliary headlamps are not aimed in accordance with the provisions of subdivision B 2 of this section.

6. Headlamps are not wired in accordance with the provisions of subdivision C 8 of this section.

NOTE: Light patterns shown in the following diagram will be displayed on the most recently approved light machines produced by Hopkins and Symtech Corporations.

HEADLAMP PATTERNS

NOTE: Always inspect the following sealed beam and replaceable bulb and integral beam headlamps on LOW BEAM only:

- 5-3/4 inch, marked 2, 2C, or 2C1

- 7 inch, marked 2, 2D, or 2D1

- 100 X 165mm rectangular, marked 2A, 2A1, or 2E1, 2G1 or 2H1

- 200 X 142mm rectangular, marked 2B or 2B1

- Replaceable bulb headlamp, marked LF with 9004 (HB1)

- 92 X 160mm rectangular, marked LF

- Replaceable bulb headlamps with 9006 (HB4) alone or in combination with 9005 (HB3)

- 55 X 135mm rectangular, marked L

- Integral beam headlamp when high and low beam reflectors move together.

According to the DMV inspection regulations noted, acceptable headlight aim, the headlamps are permitted to be aimed up to 4” above the horizontal line and 4” to the left of the vertical line, which permits the headlight beam to be aimed toward the oncoming driver. And though 4” does not sound like much, with the brighter halogen, HID, and LED type lights, that 4” is compounded. As well as LED headlights being extremely bright, the LED has a higher blue light spectrum, which the pupil does not react to, permitting the light to enter unrestricted.  

[Anthonyp]

On 10/24/2023 at 1:18 PM, Frank DuVal said:

Speaking of state safety inspections, checking headlamp aiming is part of it. And if it fails then they know how to correct it, usually, as it is a chargeable repair and they don't like letting money walk out of the door!

 

 

B. Aiming the headlamps.

1. Inspectors shall rely on their education, training, and experience to determine if the headlamps are properly aimed. If improper alignment is observed, headlamps shall be checked for proper aim by using an optical headlamp aimer, except on vehicles equipped with on-board aimers.

Headlamp aim on vehicles with on-board aimers shall be checked by visually examining the leveling device mounted either on or adjacent to the headlamp. Reject the vehicle if the leveling device shows the headlamp adjustment to exceed indicated specifications.

NOTE: Driving lamp and fog lamps must be visually inspected to ensure proper aiming. If improper alignment is observed, the optical aimer shall be used to correct any misalignment.

2. Headlamps are not aimed within the following tolerances using the optical aimer.

a. The center of the hot spot of all single element high beam lamps is set more than four inches up or down from the horizontal centerline or more than four inches to the left or right from the vertical centerline.

b. The left edge of the lamp pattern of any low beam lamp or any combination or multi-element lamp is more than four inches to the left or right of the vertical centerline or the top edge of the lamp pattern is more than four inches above or below the horizontal centerline when checked on low beam.

C. Optical aimer.

1. Optical aimers must be properly calibrated and used in the manner recommended by the manufacturer.

The optical headlamp machine must be aligned to the vehicle in accordance with the manufacturer's specifications.

2. When aiming headlamps, first look for the type of lamp, which will be found embossed on the lens. The type determines which aiming requirements must be followed for the optical aimer.

3. All low beam or combination/multi-element headlamps must be set by aiming the lamp pattern with the lamps set on low beam.

NOTE: If attempting to align a composite or sealed beam lamp with a high and low beam within the same housing, align only the low beam. If aligning a four-lamp system with high and low beams in separate housings, it may be necessary to cover the low beam while aligning the high beam, if all four lamps are on at the same time.

4. Pattern should be aimed so that the left edge does not extend to the left or right of straight ahead, and the top of the pattern should be even with the horizontal.

Pattern "A" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimer when checking the low-beam pattern on a single element headlamp or a combination multi-element headlamp.

5. All VOL and VOR headlamps will be aimed as follows:

To properly aim a combination multi-element or low-beam VOL or VOR headlamp assembly, the headlamp pattern should be aimed on low beam only.

Letters marked on the headlamp cover should properly identify VOL and VOR headlamps.

NOTE: VOL and VOR headlamps will normally have only one adjustment, which will be for the vertical aim only. The horizontal aim should be disregarded, as the horizontal aim is preset at the factory.

6. All single element high beam headlamps shall be set by aiming the center of the hot spot with the lamps set on high beam.

7. Aim straight ahead-center of the hot spot should be centered with the vertical and horizontal centerlines.

Pattern "B" represents the light pattern as it should appear on the view screen of the approved aimers.

8. When lamp pairs are mounted horizontally, the low beam lamp must be on the outer side and when mounted vertically, the low beam lamp must be at the higher position in the pair.

9. The four headlamp system must be wired so that only the lower beam lamp will burn when the light beams are depressed. When switched to high beams, both high beam and low beam may burn.

The "F" type halogen headlamp 1986 (LF-UF) of the four headlamp system will function in the following manner: system must be used so the low beam does not burn with the high beam.

D. Headlamps on vehicles used for snow removal. Approved auxiliary headlamps may be mounted above the conventional headlamps. (These lamps must be in compliance with this section in its entirety, subdivision 7 of 19VAC30-70-150, and 19VAC30-70-170.)

E. Inspect for and reject if:

1. Lamps are not an approved type as previously indicated in subdivision A 6 of this section.

2. Lamps are not mounted in a manner that will permit proper aiming.

3. Lamps are mounted so as to obstruct the driver's vision.

4. The auxiliary headlamp circuit does not contain a switch that will deactivate the primary headlamp system when the auxiliary headlamps are in use.

5. Auxiliary headlamps are not aimed in accordance with the provisions of subdivision B 2 of this section.

6. Headlamps are not wired in accordance with the provisions of subdivision C 8 of this section.

NOTE: Light patterns shown in the following diagram will be displayed on the most recently approved light machines produced by Hopkins and Symtech Corporations.

HEADLAMP PATTERNS

NOTE: Always inspect the following sealed beam and replaceable bulb and integral beam headlamps on LOW BEAM only:

- 5-3/4 inch, marked 2, 2C, or 2C1

- 7 inch, marked 2, 2D, or 2D1

- 100 X 165mm rectangular, marked 2A, 2A1, or 2E1, 2G1 or 2H1

- 200 X 142mm rectangular, marked 2B or 2B1

- Replaceable bulb headlamp, marked LF with 9004 (HB1)

- 92 X 160mm rectangular, marked LF

- Replaceable bulb headlamps with 9006 (HB4) alone or in combination with 9005 (HB3)

- 55 X 135mm rectangular, marked L

- Integral beam headlamp when high and low beam reflectors move together.

According to the DMV inspection regulations noted, acceptable headlight aim, the headlamps are permitted to be aimed up to 4” above the horizontal line and 4” to the left of the vertical line, which permits the headlight beam to be aimed toward the oncoming driver. And though 4” does not sound like much, with the brighter halogen, HID, and LED type lights, that 4” is compounded. As well as LED headlights being extremely bright, the LED has a higher blue light spectrum, which the pupil does not react to, permitting the light to enter unrestricted.  

[Buffalowed Bill]

I wonder how many younger drivers realize that there is a law that says you have to dim your lights for oncoming traffic? Common sense tells me there can't be that many discourteous drivers. Or am I being too trusting of the character of the everyman?

[WPVT]

Getting back to my original point...

As an experiment, I tried driving with my high beams on (old style headlamps), straight into traffic for an hour. Not once did anyone flick their beams at me to tell me to dim.

My point was that I believe that the brighter lamps cause drivers' retinas to adjust (dilate), so that they don't even notice my high beams. In other words, with the new LED's what is considered normal has changed and left me in the dark. 

 

[Anthonyp]

1 hour ago, WPVT said:

Getting back to my original point...

As an experiment, I tried driving with my high beams on (old style headlamps), straight into traffic for an hour. Not once did anyone flick their beams at me to tell me to dim.

My point was that I believe that the brighter lamps cause drivers' retinas to adjust (dilate), so that they don't even notice my high beams. In other words, with the new LED's what is considered normal has changed and left me in the dark. 

 

You are correct that old style headlights did not create the blinding condition that newer halogen, HID, and LED headlamps create. The newer type headlights, especially LED headlamps, project the light in a blue spectrum that the eye does not respond to, permitting the full bright light pass through the pupil unrestricted. 
 

Making matters worse, some State vehicle inspection regulations permit the beam from a headlight to aim four inches to the left of the headlamp’s direct ahead vertical line, and four inches above the headlamp’s direct ahead horizontal line. 
 

So to avoid blinding oncoming motorists, the headlight  regulations for low beams should be no less than four inches to the right of the vertical line and no less than four inches below the vertical line. 
 

Some vehicle inspection regulations did not even address newer type headlamp lighting systems, and still only give the maximum permitted illumination in candlepower. 
 

And yes, whenever a vehicle equipped with LED or HID headlights comes over a crest in the road, comes around a curve, or is parked on the wrong side of the road with headlamps lit, they are extremely blinding, regardless of a driver’s age or condition. 
 

Even worse is when HID or LED headlights are retrofitted onto older vehicles, which in most cases are not designed for properly aiming those types of lights. 
 

Back in the day, besides improperly aimed sealed beam headlamps causing a blinding effect, a low beam filament shield that was broken off also created glare, and was a rejected item during a safety inspection.  Of course, headlamps that were aimed too far right or low were also unacceptable.

Edited April 10 by Anthonyp (see edit history)

[ABear]

18 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

The newer type headlights, especially LED headlamps, project the light in a blue spectrum that the eye does not respond to, permitting the full bright light pass through the pupil unrestricted. 

The problem isn't necessarily HIDs or LEDs  projecting blue, it is the fact that the headlight reflectors are designed to focus certain wavelengths of light AND the source of light must be in the exact correct placement. The reflectors are what is called a Parabola (think satellite dish on a miniature scale) and typically designed for incandescent filament placement and color temps. Think of color temps like frequency, higher color temps the higher the frequency of light and the shorter wavelength of light you have.

 

Incandescent lights typically range from 2,000 K color temp to 2,800 color temp (yellow or warm), Halogens typically range on the higher part of standard incandescent filaments around 3,000K (less yellow).

 

HIDs often skip cool temps and head right to cold (IE BLUE color) daylight 4,500K - 6,500K (Shorter wavelengths than incandescent)

 

LEDs can display pretty much full range from 2,000K up to 7,500K.. Warm yellow to cold blue (Longer wavelength to very short wavelength)

 

The problem is no current LEDs being manufactured and sold for auto headlights are made to produce anything less than 5,500 K, more often 6,500K to 7,000K.

 

Reflectors designed for incandescent are typically larger to handle to longer wavelength and reflectors designed for HID and LEDs are smaller than incandescent.

 

The shorter wavelengths do not bounce off the reflector in the correct places causing the beam to be way out of focus and throwing a lot of beam scatter which blind the on coming motorists.

 

That is why HIDs to pass DOT requirements it must be done as a "projector" with a small reflector and collecting and focusing lens in front of the bulb. The front focusing lens shapes the bulbs pattern, not the reflector behind the bulb.

 

Headlights designed from scratch for LEDs use similar approach to HIDs where there is small reflectors and lenses built into the LEDs or in front of the LEDs, those lenses focus the light and the angles of the lenses focuses the multiple LEDs into the correct beam pattern.

 

Putting LEDs into incadescent reflectors is a compromise at best but folks do it anyways.

[WPVT]

Great information. I can tell you that although Vermont has a very strict  state inspection process, I have never experienced any headlight inspection other than on/off, high beam/low beam as part of the inspection.

I guess maximum candlepower has ceased to be an issue.

All in all, the newer headlights probably allow most people to see better. If we want to drive old cars, I guess that's the environment we'll be driving in, and that makes us, not them, the problem. So it goes.... 

[ABear]

I think you will find that most States which have some sort of official mandated inspection program will not do any alignment tests, maybe back in the early days of autos it was done but now days not so much.

 

I know with my State, they check all lights, horn, wipers/washer for functionality and make sure they are working. They also pull and check two out of four brakes, verify sufficient brake pads and rotor/drum are not damaged. Verify tires are not down to wear bars, look underside for any rust damage to frame/floor, verify exhaust system has no holes and verify there is a cat converter in place. They verify the VIN matches your registration, you have valid insurance, plate is in good shape.. But checking alignment of headlights they do not.

 

Blinding headlight issues like excessive noise from open exhaust is more of the State Police responsibility, they can pull you over for headlights being excessively obviously out of alignment (IE blinding) or not working (bulb out), too many lights (only 6 front lights are allowed on with low beams so you can have a factory quad beam system on low and have a pair of front fogs or aux driving lights on). You can get pulled over and cited but in most cases if pulled over they issue a "fix it" ticket which means you need to fix the problem and take it to the Police barracks and they will do a check to see if it is corrected.

[PWN]

It's the LEDs.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/blinded-light-american-headlight-safety-lags-years-countries-rcna82666

Blinded by the light: Cars in the U.S. still lack glare-reducing headlights

Adaptive driving beams have been used in Europe since 2012. They are now available on vehicles sold in every major automotive market worldwide, except the U.S.

 

 

 

 

[Anthonyp]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

The problem isn't necessarily HIDs or LEDs  projecting blue, it is the fact that the headlight reflectors are designed to focus certain wavelengths of light AND the source of light must be in the exact correct placement. The reflectors are what is called a Parabola (think satellite dish on a miniature scale) and typically designed for incandescent filament placement and color temps. Think of color temps like frequency, higher color temps the higher the frequency of light and the shorter wavelength of light you have.

 

Incandescent lights typically range from 2,000 K color temp to 2,800 color temp (yellow or warm), Halogens typically range on the higher part of standard incandescent filaments around 3,000K (less yellow).

 

HIDs often skip cool temps and head right to cold (IE BLUE color) daylight 4,500K - 6,500K (Shorter wavelengths than incandescent)

 

LEDs can display pretty much full range from 2,000K up to 7,500K.. Warm yellow to cold blue (Longer wavelength to very short wavelength)

 

The problem is no current LEDs being manufactured and sold for auto headlights are made to produce anything less than 5,500 K, more often 6,500K to 7,000K.

 

Reflectors designed for incandescent are typically larger to handle to longer wavelength and reflectors designed for HID and LEDs are smaller than incandescent.

 

The shorter wavelengths do not bounce off the reflector in the correct places causing the beam to be way out of focus and throwing a lot of beam scatter which blind the on coming motorists.

 

That is why HIDs to pass DOT requirements it must be done as a "projector" with a small reflector and collecting and focusing lens in front of the bulb. The front focusing lens shapes the bulbs pattern, not the reflector behind the bulb.

 

Headlights designed from scratch for LEDs use similar approach to HIDs where there is small reflectors and lenses built into the LEDs or in front of the LEDs, those lenses focus the light and the angles of the lenses focuses the multiple LEDs into the correct beam pattern.

 

Putting LEDs into incadescent reflectors is a compromise at best but folks do it anyways.

Thanks for giving a more detailed explanation. 
 

Many vehicle safety inspection programs questionably permit headlamps and other lights that are SAE approved instead of DOT approved. 
 

Reportedly, the SAE is hired by manufacturers to verify a product is in compliance with company standards, not DOT standards, which for the most part are set for the safety of all motorists, not a customer. 

[Anthonyp]

12 minutes ago, ABear said:

I think you will find that most States which have some sort of official mandated inspection program will not do any alignment tests, maybe back in the early days of autos it was done but now days not so much.

 

I know with my State, they check all lights, horn, wipers/washer for functionality and make sure they are working. They also pull and check two out of four brakes, verify sufficient brake pads and rotor/drum are not damaged. Verify tires are not down to wear bars, look underside for any rust damage to frame/floor, verify exhaust system has no holes and verify there is a cat converter in place. They verify the VIN matches your registration, you have valid insurance, plate is in good shape.. But checking alignment of headlights they do not.

 

Blinding headlight issues like excessive noise from open exhaust is more of the State Police responsibility, they can pull you over for headlights being excessively obviously out of alignment (IE blinding) or not working (bulb out), too many lights (only 6 front lights are allowed on with low beams so you can have a factory quad beam system on low and have a pair of front fogs or aux driving lights on). You can get pulled over and cited but in most cases if pulled over they issue a "fix it" ticket which means you need to fix the problem and take it to the Police barracks and they will do a check to see if it is corrected.

Many official State safety inspection programs used to require headlight aim, but most removed the requirement or overlook the mandate. 
 

Unlike where you are located, most State regulations only permit fog and auxiliary lights to be lit with the low beams or parking lights. 
 

As for enforcement of illegal headlamps and other lights, it seems to have gone the route of loud exhaust systems.
 

Just like the harmful, unsafe, and annoyingly loud exhaust noise heard being emitted from motorcycles equipped with non-EPA certified mufflers, other motorists are seen freely driving with non-DOT certified lights blindingly lit, not unlike the now commonly seen LED light bars and lamps, mounted on crash bars, cowls, and roofs. 

[ABear]

15 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Many vehicle safety inspection programs questionably permit headlamps and other lights that are SAE approved instead of DOT approved. 
 

Reportedly, the SAE is hired by manufacturers to verify a product is in compliance with company standards, not DOT standards, which for the most part are set for the safety of all motorists, not a customer. 

Got it backwards.

 

SAE creates the standards and standards testing procedures spelled out by DOT rules but DOT has final say on what is allowed and not allowed.

 

SAE has existed since having been started in 1905-06, well before any DOT ever existed.

 

SAE helps companies to follow the DOT approved standards, not help the company to stay in company compliance.

[Anthonyp]

3 minutes ago, ABear said:

Got it backwards.

 

SAE creates the standards and standards testing procedures spelled out by DOT rules but DOT has final say on what is allowed and not allowed.

 

SAE has existed since having been started in 1905-06, well before any DOT ever existed.

 

SAE helps companies to follow the DOT approved standards, not help the company to stay in company compliance.

Yes, the SAE has been around long before the USDOT and NHTSA.
 

The SAE used to set automotive standards, but now proposes testing procedures for some standards, for the DOT in the United States and other countries. 
 

Many automotive products may be SAE approved, but are not DOT approved. 

[ABear]

4 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Many official State safety inspection programs used to require headlight aim, but most removed the requirement or overlook the mandate. 

One of the issues with mandating specific headlight aim is the standards and lighting technology have changed and evolved over the years. You cannot apply that rule evenly across the board from 1890s to modern day vehicles, it just doesn't work like that.

 

For that reason there is exceptions built in to most regulations and rules that grandfather things like lighting to what was was acceptable for that model yr..  For instance, 1890's through 1920's many cars were equipped with oil or acetylene lamps and those had near zero focus so light went everywhere. They weren't blinding either and would not meet today's minimum required illumination but they still can be used on those old automobiles to this day.

 

And honestly, I can't ever remember any inspection station I have ever been at from the 1970's on, That actually had a headight chart or aiming system.

 

15 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Unlike where you are located, most State regulations only permit fog and auxiliary lights to be lit with the low beams or parking lights. 

Federal DOT sets the min and max specifications, every State has their own DOT that adopts the min and max specifications. So it is left up to each State to determine the rules in play for that State provided it doesn't go outside the min and max of DOT at Federal level.

 

18 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

As for enforcement of illegal headlamps and other lights, it seems to have gone the route of loud exhaust systems.

Enforcement of some rules is left up to each State at the local level (IE State Police or local Police), so headlights and noise are low hanging fruit. Most times only LACK of headlight or lighting will get attention more so than blinding headlights unless the lights are obvious like large light bars which are labeled "for off road use" and do not have a DOT approval (can have SAE on it but without DOT endorsement they are sold as off road and people ignore that).

[ABear]

15 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

The SAE used to set automotive standards, but now proposes testing procedures for some standards, for the DOT in the United States and other countries. 

Put it another way, DOT sets rules, someone (SAE) has to interpret the rules and develop standards around those rules. Once those rules and standards are approved by DOT someone (SAE) must setup rules and procedures on how to setup and test the items to ensure they follow the approved DOT specifications . That is what SAE does, not DOT.

 

So, a company making a replacement LED for on road use in a headlight must follow SAE standards, if they follow those then they can add SAE standards that are met, BUT to be able to sell them for ON ROAD use they must also get DOT approval for that use.

 

Pretty much ALL LED retrofits fall into the category of having a SAE number, but FAIL to get DOT approval and therefore MUST be marketed with the "FOR OFF ROAD USE" label.. Very few manufacturers are willing to spend the money to get DOT approval, because LEDs do not and will not 100% match the properties of a filament and cannot guarantee it will work correctly in all reflectors.  What you will find is most people IGNORE the "For Off Road" label and use them anyway.

27 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Many automotive products may be SAE approved, but are not DOT approved.

While technically correct, it comes down to the final intended use of a product.

 

If one is planning strictly off road use then DOT has no jurisdiction on that so DOT approval is not needed.

 

Case in point is 1 ft -4 ft wide light bars, they will never ever meet DOT maximum lighting requirements and therefore never ever get a DOT approval for on road use. You can install them, but you are not supposed to be on road with them on.. I know at one point with KC light bars, you were supposed to put covers on them when driving on public roads.. Without the covers you could get pulled over.

 

Now days, I doubt you would ever get pulled over for uncovered but off light bars.

 

People loved the cool idea of HIDs but on a beer budget they opted for the blue colored halogens, those also scatter a lot of light (once again, a math problem, the blue coloring filters out the longer yellow wavelength and what is left is the higher color temp (IE shorter wave length) which doesn't focus correctly), now that LEDS have come into play folks have gravitated to using them in reflectors that were never meant for them and it still boils down to the State or Local Police to enforce a lot of the laws.. They are stretched thin and unless you have a light out, you will get passed on without even a thought.

 

Yes, I really hate driving at night, I avoid it as much as possible..

[Anthonyp]

8 minutes ago, ABear said:

One of the issues with mandating specific headlight aim is the standards and lighting technology have changed and evolved over the years. You cannot apply that rule evenly across the board from 1890s to modern day vehicles, it just doesn't work like that.

 

For that reason there is exceptions built in to most regulations and rules that grandfather things like lighting to what was was acceptable for that model yr..  For instance, 1890's through 1920's many cars were equipped with oil or acetylene lamps and those had near zero focus so light went everywhere. They weren't blinding either and would not meet today's minimum required illumination but they still can be used on those old automobiles to this day.

 

And honestly, I can't ever remember any inspection station I have ever been at from the 1970's on, That actually had a headight chart or aiming system.

 

Federal DOT sets the min and max specifications, every State has their own DOT that adopts the min and max specifications. So it is left up to each State to determine the rules in play for that State provided it doesn't go outside the min and max of DOT at Federal level.

 

Enforcement of some rules is left up to each State at the local level (IE State Police or local Police), so headlights and noise are low hanging fruit. Most times only LACK of headlight or lighting will get attention more so than blinding headlights unless the lights are obvious like large light bars which are labeled "for off road use" and do not have a DOT approval (can have SAE on it but without DOT endorsement they are sold as off road and people ignore that).

Yes, that is correct. The aiming of headlights was reportedly initiated with the advent of sealed beam headlamps.
 

With headlights no longer consisting of a standard type headlamp, the horizontal aim is now fixed, with only the vertical aim being adjustable. 
 

Back when police vehicles had roof mounted light bars with easily recognizable red or red/blue tinted lenses, readily identifiable graphics , and non-camouflage type paint schemes, enforcement used to stop and tag vehicles with a re-inspection notice or violation: Using illegal headlamps or other lights; Emitting a stream of visual exhaust smoke; Seen with illegal mufflers or emitting exhaust noise louder than the factory exhaust system.
 

A clear indication of the last violation would be when the motorcycle could be heard blocks away. 

[West Peterson]

5 hours ago, WPVT said:

Getting back to my original point...

As an experiment, I tried driving with my high beams on (old style headlamps), straight into traffic for an hour. Not once did anyone flick their beams at me to tell me to dim.

 

 

 

My newest car is more than 20 years old, and I've been driving with my high beams on all the time for quite some time now. Same results as you. Not one time has someone flashed me. My thought is that my high beams are much dimmer than the modern low-beam lights.

[Lee H]

In keeping with the broad range of this topic, I recently decided to try one of the kits for polishing out windshield scratches. I was amazed at how much clearer I could see through those polished areas, and how much oncoming traffic glare was reduced. It’s like removing cataracts from your 60 year-old windshield

[ABear]

7 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

With headlights no longer consisting of a standard type headlamp, the horizontal aim is now fixed, with only the vertical aim being adjustable.

And once again, enforcement has been in most all cases to the State or Local Police as their duties. I have not as of yet ever seen State or Local Police pull out and setup any headlight aiming charts or systems.

 

The reason?

 

Even though you can be temporarily blinded, it is the lesser evil to having one or more lights out on your vehicle. Blinding lights from a drivers perspective can be overcome by shifting your focus down and away or towards your side of the road from the oncoming offending vehicle. In other words, do not stare at the oncoming traffic headlights!

 

Yes, it stinks that others don't care about blinding the other motorists on the road, but that is the current attitude of most people now days.

 

You can't fix the problem, you can't legislate the problem, you have to learn how to adapt to the current problem. Shifting eye focus down and away from oncoming lights was in the basic rule book when I took driving lessons many, many yrs ago.

[WPVT]

16 minutes ago, Lee H said:

In keeping with the broad range of this topic, I recently decided to try one of the kits for polishing out windshield scratches. I was amazed at how much clearer I could see through those polished areas, and how much oncoming traffic glare was reduced. It’s like removing cataracts from your 60 year-old windshield

Really ? I've had that kind of results when a windshield was replaced, but didn't know that polishing actually worked.

Maybe I'll give it a try sometime.

[DFeeney]

I had a Cataract once but traded it in on a Rincoln,   "Jus Sayin"

[Anthonyp]

3 hours ago, West Peterson said:

 

My newest car is more than 20 years old, and I've been driving with my high beams on all the time for quite some time now. Same results as you. Not one time has someone flashed me. My thought is that my high beams are much dimmer than the modern low-beam lights.

Many drivers are hesitant to flash their high beams at an approaching vehicle that seems to have the high beams lit when it is a two headlamp system, but for obvious reasons do so with a four headlamp system.

[ABear]

1 minute ago, Anthonyp said:

Many drivers are hesitant to flash their high beams at an approaching vehicle that seems to have the high beams lit when it is a two headlamp system, but for obvious reasons do so with a four headlamp system.

I have been driving with 4 headlamp plus two driving lights all OEM factory installed since 2019, I can't remember ever getting flashed unless I left the high beams on.

 

DOT requirements does allow for 4 low beams plus two driving lights but does not allow for 4 high beams plus driving light.. So, when flipping to high beam the driving lights automatically are turned off.

 

I suspect however due to the very high potential of over aggressive drivers or retaliatory drivers I think many people are much less willing to take a chance on flashing beams at others. You never know how the other person will react and the reaction has the potential to turn deadly.

 

I used to ride share with a guy that was on that highly aggressive driver knife edge, might look fun in the movies, in real life not so much.

 

I would just rather leave people alone, high beams stuck on? They will be past you in seconds and your life goes back in proper order.. Run into a aggressive driver and flick that high beam and your life just might change forever in a few seconds for the worse.

[Anthonyp]

3 hours ago, ABear said:

And once again, enforcement has been in most all cases to the State or Local Police as their duties. I have not as of yet ever seen State or Local Police pull out and setup any headlight aiming charts or systems.

 

The reason?

 

Even though you can be temporarily blinded, it is the lesser evil to having one or more lights out on your vehicle. Blinding lights from a drivers perspective can be overcome by shifting your focus down and away or towards your side of the road from the oncoming offending vehicle. In other words, do not stare at the oncoming traffic headlights!

 

Yes, it stinks that others don't care about blinding the other motorists on the road, but that is the current attitude of most people now days.

 

You can't fix the problem, you can't legislate the problem, you have to learn how to adapt to the current problem. Shifting eye focus down and away from oncoming lights was in the basic rule book when I took driving lessons many, many yrs ago.

Of course enforcement would not perform a roadside headlight aim inspection, but they could issue a re-inspection citation to ensure the headlight are properly aimed. Enforcement can check if the headlights are legal. 
 

As a driver instructor once said, a motorist, not unlike a moth, will naturally gaze towards oncoming headlights. Though, one should try not to gaze directly at the light.
 

With some headlights, no matter how much you look towards the shoulder of the road, the light from the headlamps will effect the driver’s sight.  
 

Especially when the oncoming vehicle is equipped with what used to be described as ‘landing lights’ and has them lit on a public road. Undoubtedly, if an oncoming vehicle is a police vehicle, the low priority problem will become a top priority.
 

Not unlike when a motorcycle equipped with loud mufflers rides past a police vehicle with the driver’s window down, and revs the engine. The low priority all of a sudden becomes a high priority. 
 

Studies have shown that with many drivers now operating their vehicles with the headlights on 24/7, and those with vehicles equipped with DRL that utilizes the headlamps at a reduced output, the instances of vehicles seen operating with a headlight burnt out has greatly increased. 

[Anthonyp]

9 minutes ago, ABear said:

I have been driving with 4 headlamp plus two driving lights all OEM factory installed since 2019, I can't remember ever getting flashed unless I left the high beams on.

 

DOT requirements does allow for 4 low beams plus two driving lights but does not allow for 4 high beams plus driving light.. So, when flipping to high beam the driving lights automatically are turned off.

 

I suspect however due to the very high potential of over aggressive drivers or retaliatory drivers I think many people are much less willing to take a chance on flashing beams at others. You never know how the other person will react and the reaction has the potential to turn deadly.

 

I used to ride share with a guy that was on that highly aggressive driver knife edge, might look fun in the movies, in real life not so much.

 

I would just rather leave people alone, high beams stuck on? They will be past you in seconds and your life goes back in proper order.. Run into a aggressive driver and flick that high beam and your life just might change forever in a few seconds for the worse.

You are right about drivers being hesitant to flash their lights if an oncoming vehicle has the high beams on, or seems to have them on, due to reported instances of road rage. 
 

DOT permits a passenger vehicle to only operate with two low beam headlamps lit, plus two fog or driving lights. The fog/driving lights cannot operate when the high beams are lit. On a four headlamp system, the low beams stay lit with the high beams on and work as a filler beam. 
 

UF and LF headlamps have low beams that go out when the high beams are lit. 

[ABear]

16 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

Of course enforcement would not perform a roadside headlight aim inspection, but they could issue a re-inspection citation to ensure the headlight are properly aimed. Enforcement can check if the headlights are legal. 

And without standardized fixturing how can Police determine that your headlights are incorrectly aimed or illegal non DOT compliant?

 

Answer, they can't.

 

Police can not just randomly pull people over and issue citations on a secondary offense judgement call with zero proof. To pull you over, they MUST have a legit primary offense reason and see that you are breaking a motor vehicle law like speeding, failing to stop at stop lights,  reckless driving or you have a light that is out. They can however after they pull you over for other primary  offenses of motor vehicle laws write you up for that miss aimed light, however it would be very difficult for a officer to determine it is out of spec out in the field. Basically a miss aimed light is not a primary pull overable offense, sort of like how not wearing seat belts works.

 

Police must follow procedures as written, many offenses do not fall into the pull over and cite category, but once pulled over they can add that to the list of offenses you are pulled over for if they deem it a secondary offense.

[Lee H]

4 hours ago, WPVT said:

I've had that kind of results when a windshield was replaced, but didn't know that polishing actually worked.

It works, but it is a LOT of work to do the entire windshield. I think on a microscopic level, my glass had become somewhat “sandblasted”, and the polishing smoothed over all the hills and dales that cause the light to refract about (if that’s the right word).

[ABear]

26 minutes ago, Anthonyp said:

DOT permits a passenger vehicle to only operate with two low beam headlamps lit, plus two fog or driving lights. The fog/driving lights cannot operate when the high beams are lit. On a four headlamp system, the low beams stay lit with the high beams on and work as a filler beam. 

Wrong

 

You obviously do not own a newer vehicle.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1682639-2019-f250-super-duty-headlight-configuration.html

 

"When the headlights are on, all 4 are on, high or low.
When high beams are on, fogs cut off. "

 

Four low plus fogs/driving light or four highs and no fogs/drivers light, I know my truck, the fogs/drivers light turn off whenever I switch to high beam..

[Anthonyp]

17 minutes ago, ABear said:

And without standardized fixturing how can Police determine that your headlights are incorrectly aimed or illegal non DOT compliant?

 

Answer, they can't.

 

Police can not just randomly pull people over and issue citations on a secondary offense judgement call with zero proof. To pull you over, they MUST have a legit primary offense reason and see that you are breaking a motor vehicle law like speeding, failing to stop at stop lights,  reckless driving or you have a light that is out. They can however after they pull you over for other primary  offenses of motor vehicle laws write you up for that miss aimed light, however it would be very difficult for a officer to determine it is out of spec out in the field. Basically a miss aimed light is not a primary pull overable offense, sort of like how not wearing seat belts works.

 

Police must follow procedures as written, many offenses do not fall into the pull over and cite category, but once pulled over they can add that to the list of offenses you are pulled over for if they deem it a secondary offense.

That might be true about needing a primary offense to stop a vehicle in some States, but not all. 
 

An approved headlight has DOT stamped on the lens. 
 

Not unlike motorcycles equipped with non-DOT compliant loud mufflers, vehicles with non-compliant blinding headlamps should be addressed during vehicle safety inspections and enforcement, with practical procedures and regulations. 

[Anthonyp]

1 hour ago, ABear said:

Wrong

 

You obviously do not own a newer vehicle.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1682639-2019-f250-super-duty-headlight-configuration.html

 

"When the headlights are on, all 4 are on, high or low.
When high beams are on, fogs cut off. "

 

Four low plus fogs/driving light or four highs and no fogs/drivers light, I know my truck, the fogs/drivers light turn off whenever I switch to high beam..

You are correct. I had forgotten about the Ford pickup with the quad low beam headlamps.
 

Should had remembered as my friend owns one and oncoming vehicles constantly flash their lights thinking the high beams are lit.
 

This is especially true when there is heavy cargo in the bed, and the projected beams from the low beam headlamps seem much brighter due to their upward aim caused by weighted bed. 

[Glen Andrews]

Wow, a lot to read and to take in here. I probably won't replace my headlight bulbs to higher brightness, it's a 1938 Chevy pickup with bulbs behind the glass and it does not have a high beam indicator light. When I drive my newer vehicles (2020 & 2006) at night, and it's similar to what a couple of people mentioned above, I now put my sunglasses on like a pair of cheater reading glasses and when a car approaches I lift my head a little and the sunglasses cut out enough oncoming light, when the vehicle passes by I lower my head to my usual driving position. I too used to use the thing of looking at the white line but light is still coming into your eyes. Anyway the sunglasses work well for me.

[Frank DuVal]

I can't believe the number of a$$#%^*& on here who purposely drive around with their high beams on! All civility is gone from your brains? You are the only important person on the road? And we wonder why "young people" feel so entitled these days. They learn for others showing how to do it. ❗  Sure they may seem to be no brighter than the awful ones made today, does that mean you need to be mean? ❓

 

As to the "no one flashes me so it must be OK", just how am I supposed to flash you when you are behind me on a two lane no passing road for miles? ❓

[ply33]

41 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

I can't believe the number of a$$#%^*& on here who purposely drive around with their high beams on! All civility is gone from your brains? You are the only important person on the road? And we wonder why "young people" feel so entitled these days. They learn for others showing how to do it. ❗  Sure they may seem to be no brighter than the awful ones made today, does that mean you need to be mean? ❓

 

As to the "no one flashes me so it must be OK", just how am I supposed to flash you when you are behind me on a two lane no passing road for miles? ❓

Are you, like me, waiting for the US rules to change so we can get adaptive driving beam (ADB) headlights?

[Anthonyp]

9 hours ago, ply33 said:

Are you, like me, waiting for the US rules to change so we can get adaptive driving beam (ADB) headlights?

Very interesting headlamp lighting system.

 

Headlights are blinding us. Here’s why it’s mostly an American problem
 

This aerial drone photo shows a car driving on a road at night with headlights shadowing a vehicle on the road. 

 

SAE International, formerly known as the Society of Automotive Engineers, had earlier created its own standards for adaptive headlights through a committee of industry experts.

 

NHTSA’s [USDOT National Highway Transportation Safety Administration] standards are more restrictive than SAE’s.

 

Safety regulations usually differ somewhat between different global markets. But, since adaptive beam headlights have been in use in other countries for a decade or more, automakers hoped that regulations would allow their introduction in this country without requiring major equipment changes, according to various industry sources.

 

NHTSA’s rules require the ADB headlights to respond extremely swiftly after detecting another vehicle within reach of the lights, much faster than other standards require in the EU and Canada. Also much faster than a human could switch off an ordinary high beam headlight. They also dictate extreme narrow lines between bright and dark regions.

 

The NHTSA regulations prioritize reducing any potential to cause glare for other drivers. Glare has been a particular concern for many years since new vehicles have brighter headlights that can sometimes cause discomfort or even temporarily blind other drivers. Many in the industry say the regulations overemphasize that concern, though, holding adaptive beam headlights to even higher standards than regular headlights when it comes to glare reduction.

 

NHTSA also states that other standards put forth by the industry, such as an SAE standard, don’t do enough to prevent the systems from sometimes putting too much light into the eyes of other drivers.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/15/cars/headlights-tech-adaptable-high-beams-cars/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

[ABear]

15 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

That might be true about needing a primary offense to stop a vehicle in some States, but not all. 

Most States also "reciprocate" on secondary rules with other States rules, so there is that also..

 

You act as if the Police have nothing better than to stare down every motorist and pull them over for every single headlight infraction. Reality is, they cannot be everywhere all the time, there simply is too many motorists for the given amount of Police including off duty ones also.. So, it comes down to what is more important, catching drunk drivers, catching speeders, catching operators with a no lights on or some lights out.

 

Driving with no lighting is actually far greater risk to other motorists, if they have headlights, tailights out YOU cannot see them. Imagine driving 55 MPH on a dark night and a motorist is coming towards you with no headlight and no marker lights.. I HAVE experienced that.. Yeah, that DOES happen and is far, far more dangerous than having a headlight out of alignment.

15 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

An approved headlight has DOT stamped on the lens.

OK, so what?

 

Have you personally and intentionally stared into your headlight lens in the middle of night with the headlights on and have looked for a DOT marking?

 

I wouldn't, not worth seeing a thousand ghost lights for several hrs.. That would be the same as staring into the sun without proper protection for your eyes..

 

Not to mention, just because then lens has a DOT stamp, doesn't mean the BULB inside the lens has DOT approval..

 

You are forgetting, non DOT bulbs can be installed into a DOT housing

So, I guess in your wise wisdom you would have the officer dig into the hot engine compartment, find the offending bulb, yank it out will turned on and then attempt to handle and read a the tiny writing on the back of a thousand degree hot bulb.. Yeah, I don't see that happening.. Try that on my 2019 and 2020 trucks, you have to remove the front grill to access the bulbs, not an easy task in properly lit shop, would be impossible to do on a roadside stop..

 

16 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

Not unlike motorcycles equipped with non-DOT compliant loud mufflers, vehicles with non-compliant blinding headlamps should be addressed during vehicle safety inspections and enforcement, with practical procedures and regulations. 

Loud Motorcycles are a different discussion but I will address that also.

 

Motor cyclists have often lobbied against noise laws and for the most part the have won. Basically the premise is because they are small and hard to see, they want the bike to be loud enough for the other motorists to notice them.. In some respects they are correct, you will hear them before you ever see them.. Doesn't make it right but that is why they get a "pass" on noise.

 

Not to mention, unless there is a municipal noise ordnance capping the noise level it comes back to a judgment call by Police..

 

Not defending the whole thing as I deal with a lot of loud vehicles and motor bikes as my home is a little over 40 ft from the center line of a busy road. Form 5 AM to 1 AM the next morning it is a constant drone of Jake brakes and loud mufflers.

15 hours ago, Anthonyp said:

This is especially true when there is heavy cargo in the bed, and the projected beams from the low beam headlamps seem much brighter due to their upward aim caused by weighted bed. 

ALL vehicles suffer from load change, add some passengers to your vehicle and the headlights will also change. But then again, bumps and dips in the road changes your headlight aim as well as up and down hills.. Your vehicle is not static, it moves while you drive and you can't stop that either.

 

11 hours ago, ply33 said:

Are you, like me, waiting for the US rules to change so we can get adaptive driving beam (ADB) headlights?

Buy a Tucker.

 

One of Tucker's signature items was the center light was supposed to turn with the direction of the wheels..

 

In reality, having adaptive headlight that move sounds great, however in practice one needs to remember that doing so adds complexity into the system. That complexity means higher and higher costs, added mechanical failure points, additional computer systems plus more added points of computer failure.

 

One of the problems we face today is way over thinking and way over complexing things.

 

Case in point, my 2020 Ford truck came with auto dimming headlights, great idea, but only works somewhat on a clear night, no rain, no fog and no snow.. Add in other lights, road signs and even road reflectors and that system goes totally out of its mind blinking up and down.. Oh yeah, the windshield must be 100% dirt and spot free in the camera area that the computer uses for that function.. Too many high beam flashes on other drivers and too many false up/downs it made things for me as a driver unsafe so OFF it went, banished to the off position forever, another feature that simply is garbage.

 

And people are dumb enough to want to ride in a self driving car? Yet with modern tech we can't make a headlight auto dim system that just works correctly 100% of the time..

 

Go back to the 1960s where my Dad had a car equipped with auto dimming headlights, used a photo sensor resistor (LDS) mounted on the dash with a tube operated relay system. Pretty much flawless operation in all types of weather..

 

 

[Jack Bennett]

The stereotype of a pirate boat captain is a shaggy haired, bearded guy with one eye patch.

Well, I suppose if I spent most of my life on a ship at sea, with a crew of smelly and rowdy pirates, I may not visit my barber or manicurist as often as society dictates.

However, to explain the eye patch I have to go a bit further.

One story goes that when asked if he’d lost his eye in a sword fight, the old captain replied that he’d lost his eye because of a sword fight, but not during a sword fight.

Asked to explain, the old pirate captain went on to say he’d lost his hand in the fight, and that it was replaced by a hook.

Still curious, the other fellow asked what losing his hand, and having it replaced with a hook had to do with losing his eye in a sword fight.

The old captain replied “Nothing, at least not until I forgot I had the hook and scratched my nose”.

But this thread is about night driving so I’d better get back on topic…..

When we actually talked, I mean face to face, it was understood that flashing your lights at a oncoming car was a way of reminding them that you were being blinded, and, just maybe, would hit them in a head on collusion.

That was “culture”, and that is the way we were taught.

Now we are in a different culture which allows people to learn, and practice, things that will never be discussed other than on a internet anti-social site.

I was told by a younger member of my lodge that he will not flash his lights at a oncoming car for the same reason he won’t wave at someone in another car or on a motorcycle.

It seems as there are non-verbal ways of communicating we don’t completely understand, nor do those who practice and react to others using this means of communications.

Seldom a day goes by that we don’t see a newspaper report of a drive by shooting or someone being dragged from a car and physically harmed.

The explanation given for the senseless act was misinterpretation of the hand gesture being a rival gang signal or something which implied disrespect.

I may be off base here, but I have been told that having headlights flashed at them can be taken by some as a challenge to their status as a superior driver, or a threat that the persons in the car doing the flashing is transmitting a warning that a returned flash will invite retaliation.

It’s a culture thing, we don’t need to understand the “why” it has evolved, but we have to appreciate the consequences of foolishly doing it.

That leads me back to the pirate captain, and interlocks night driving with a eye patch.

Logically, a pirate captain spends as much time below deck as they do on deck. And the eyes respond to sudden changes in the intensity of the light, and a pirate captain, coming from a darkened hold into the bright sunlight may be temporarily blinded…….the same as the night driver being confronted by oncoming headlights.

The life expectancy of a pirate captain must be hard to sustain, especially a boat captain, on a ship manned by pirates, who is suddenly blinded as he opens the door and recenters the sunshine from a darkened hold.

To minimize the chance of this temporary blindness becoming the epithet on his grave stone, the captain wears a patch which keeps one eye in the dark while allowing him to see with the other.

When the reason for the captains stay in the dark is finished, and the time to return to the lighted deck arrives, so does the time to switch the patch from the blacked out eye to the uncovered eye.

Thence, as he emerges from the dark, and recenters the light, he now uses the previously covered eye to watch for vandals who would want to harm him.

If you leave this spiel with the opinion I’d suggest that you wear a eyepatch while night driving, and stay prepared to swap it between eyes when confronted with bright headlights, ……………..

Well, maybe so……….

Jack

 

Edited April 11 by Jack Bennett (see edit history)

[ABear]

There is something that everyone can use, it is called "driving defensively"

 

Night driving tips..

 

https://themotorguy.com/night-driving-tips-how-to-avoid-glare-from-oncoming-headlights/

 

"Highway Scenarios

 

When driving on a highway, oncoming headlights can be especially bright and distracting. To avoid glare, you should:

    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Avoid looking directly at the oncoming headlights.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

 

Rural Roads

 

Rural roads can be narrow and winding, which can make it difficult to see oncoming traffic. Here are some tips for handling oncoming traffic on rural roads:

    Slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary.
    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

 

Urban Streets

 

On urban streets, oncoming headlights can be especially distracting due to the presence of streetlights and other sources of light. Here are some tips for handling oncoming traffic on urban streets:

    Slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary.
    Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.
    Use your high beams only when there is no oncoming traffic.

By following these tips, you can avoid glare from oncoming headlights and stay safe while driving at night."

 

Notice one of the main repeated part I have highlighted in bold and underlined is Look to the right side of the road and use the white line as a guide.

 

There are a few other tips that can be helpful.

 

A clean windshield is helpful to reduce glare.

 

Scratch free windshield reduces glare.

 

You can also get glasses with glare reduction coatings that do help.

 

Dash board dimming, yeah, that is a huge offender now days, that huge touch screen system sitting on the dash glaring at you does you no favors. set your dash lights as dim as possible so your no longer competing with that.

 

Use your high beams when possible.

 

Adjust your rear view mirrors to reduce glare from cars behind you.. Yep, I flip my windshield mirror to night position, and I move my passenger mirror up until I no longer get headlight glare from cars behind me..

 

Drop your windshield visor down, that reduces glass glare from cars behind you.

 

Get regular eye exams, as you age, your eyes change, how and what you see changes which may require changes in prescription eye wear or even medical attention.

 

How about REDUCING YOUR SPEED?

 

Minimize distractions (IE talking to people, paying attention to your phone, loud music, ect)

 

Be careful of your medications, some can affect your eyes and night time vision..

 

LIMIT NIGHT DRIVING, yeah, if you do not NEED to be out driving at night and you have issues with headlights, limit your time driving at night, it may not be the fault of the other motorists headlights when it may be your eyes causing night vision issues.

 

Fatigue, driving tired makes you more sensitive to bright lights..

 

Don't be impatient..

 

These are what YOU can "control", do that enough times and it all becomes second nature.

 

No need for DOT numbers, no need for legislation, no need for police randomly pulling people over and harassing them for a miss aligned headlight.