Model T Water Pump

[f.f.jones]

I've never owned a Model T, so I am not familiar with them. I was not aware that there were water pumps available for them until I came across this '26 T. I presume water pumps are aftermarket items, as they are still available on line. The question is, are they beneficial on a driver/tourer or will the factory system suffice? I rate dependability over originality in this case.

 

 

 

[JFranklin]

Original Ford thermosyphen is most dependable due to no moving parts. I put a water pump on one of my cars just for the look. 

[wayne sheldon]

If one really values dependability (I am speaking generally, NOT meaning you!)? They should fix a problem, not slap a Band-Aid on it.

If everything on a model T's engine system is working properly, the thermosyphon cooling works incredibly well! The hotter the weather? The hotter the engine? All the faster the water flows to cool the motor!

Water pumps for model Ts sold in large numbers beginning in the 1910s, ironically due to people's fear that the thermosyphon might not be adequate. Other car dealers were bragging about how much more advanced their cars were (water pumps being part of that). As Ts got older and suffering rough lives, various lack of maintenance problems began to plague a lot of tired Ts. Radiators would leak causing the thermosyphon to not flow properly, ignition and carburetion issues would result in running hotter than normal. Water pumps seemed like an easy fix, and sometimes they would help a little. There was also a quirk where if the wind blew at just the wrong angle and speed? Air flow through the radiator would be negated causing the car to overheat. This problem was more common at speeds under 20 mph, and actually happened rarely. Water pumps could help a little bit under that condition, however not much because if the radiator isn't cooling the water even pumping it won't help much!

I suspect that most water pumps for model Ts were sold new during the later years, mostly during the depression. A lot of people trying to limp along in poorly maintained old Ts would grasp at anything to keep them going. Many radiators by then were suffering from years of abuse and replacement radiators were a bit expensive, while the "Band-Aid" water pump was only a couple dollars.

Old water pumps are quite common, and they are still made new today! (Or at least recently before all this manufacturing shortages silliness!)

Original era ones came in a huge variety of makers and models, some actually pretty good? Some that worked so badly that the car almost always ran hotter with the pump than without. Most of the better ones can usually be found in decent condition, and are easily rebuilt!

That history said? Why bother?

As the hobby grew a half century ago, most hobbyists didn't have really good advice to follow on properly sorting their model Ts. The poor Ford was all too often restored back to its depression era marginal radiator and poorly performing ignition system. So, hobbyists again used water pumps. And, they again only marginally helped. Over the years, some wonderful hobbyists (a long list starting with Ron Patterson and John Regan! Two people I very highly respect and admire.) with engineering backgrounds figured out how to repair the ignition system properly! Once they figured it out, they shared their knowledge widely within the model T community! And model Ts started running much better, and cooler. The other big problem hobbyists were having was that after a half century, a lot of the radiators due to age and corrosion simply lost the ability to transfer heat from the water into the radiator fins. IF the heat doesn't transfer to the fins, water pump or not, the radiator won't keep the engine cool! Over the past sixty years, numerous companies have come and gone providing good new radiators for our model T Fords. Currently, supply is short. Brass Works has picked up the baton and hopefully will get caught up soon.

Generally, within the model T crowd, making sure your radiator is up to the task, is topping the list for reliable touring! Most model T drivers say that a new radiator is the best money they ever spent for touring reliability.

 

And, toss the pump! Or do what I did. Hang them on a nail on the outside wall of one of my storage buildings.

 

One of my longtime best friends, when he gets a model T that has a water pump on it? The first thing he does is remove the water pump and cut it in half with his band saw!

[Dandy Dave]

Agree. A water pump on a Model T Ford does them no justice. Take it off. Also check the upper radiator hose as often a restrictor of sorts was also put in to slow the flow down. It will work much better with a clean block and radiator.

[arcticbuicks]

I have a model T in the shed with a aftermarket 'Frontinac" overhead valve head and it has a water pump that goes inline on the rad hose ....and i guess it just has to be twisted and clamped just right to have pulley run against the belt lol......i would run out and do a few pics but we are still trying to warm up from -35 last few days

Edited February 23, 2023 by arcticbuicks (see edit history)

[Mark Gregush]

It all depends on how well your radiator cools or doesn't, if you leave it on or take it off. The Band-Aid answer that is often given is, it didn't come with one so is not needed, DOES NOT fit every case. New radiators are not a giveaway item so not everyone can afford one. 

[oldford]

I have a different take on Model T's with waterpumps. today a replacement radiator can cost upwards of $1000. And the one you get from the VERY limited list of suppliers may not fit right. The thermosyphon system is designed to cool and engine at a temp very close to boiling. The length of time between danger and proper temp is small, allowing ample time to do damage. I speak from over 40 years of owning Model T's (over 15 of them over the years). I have since sold my T's, but if I still owned one, I would gladly trade authenticity for functionality. Have you priced what an engine rebuild costs these days. That little 4 banger will cost you upwards of $5000, and that's if your transmission is good.

 

Frank

[West Peterson]

2 hours ago, oldford said:

I have a different take on Model T's with waterpumps. today a replacement radiator can cost upwards of $1000. And the one you get from the VERY limited list of suppliers may not fit right. The thermosyphon system is designed to cool and engine at a temp very close to boiling. The length of time between danger and proper temp is small, allowing ample time to do damage. I speak from over 40 years of owning Model T's (over 15 of them over the years). I have since sold my T's, but if I still owned one, I would gladly trade authenticity for functionality. Have you priced what an engine rebuild costs these days. That little 4 banger will cost you upwards of $5000, and that's if your transmission is good.

 

Frank

 

If those prices sound high, perhaps you shouldn't look into the cost of radiators and overhauls for bigger cars. I'm in the throws of completely rebuilding my 1910 T, and all the prices thrown at me seem like a bargain. 

[Terry Bond]

The water pump actually can impede the circulation when driving slowly as in a parade. Not an item I'd ever recommend or use. 

Terry

[Brass is Best]

I have driven them with and without water pumps. Without works just as well. The key is a good radiator.

[Soupiov]

You don't need no stink'n water pump!  More trouble than they're worth.  If your radiator is bad get a radiator not a water pump! I have several T's and some of them had water pumps on then when I acquired them.  First thing I did was take them off and use them for wheel chocks.  Never had an overheat problem and I live in Florida!